94 réponses à ce sujet

[Tilarta]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

There was a theory going around a while back that the "Bug" structure of the reapers wasn't actually the true reaper, but was more akin to a carrying device. Armour, weapons, holds for the Husks, stuff like that. Kinda like Power Armour for a real Reaper, while the "Core" was what actually was the True Reaper.

The way I've always looked at it; the Baby Reaper wasn't that much bigger than the Reaper Core we fought in the damaged reaper in the IFF mission, and the method of killing it was the same. I think the "Reaper" is actually the core, and the rest of it is just a gigantic ship made to carry the thing.

I actually started to wonder about that recently.

In the Human Reaper, we see a glowing blue device roughly where a human would have their heart.
Could this be a Reaper's mass effect core?

If so, it'd have to get a little bigger to match the size of the one we destroyed in the Derelict Reaper.

Also, I don't remember seeing a ribcage around that mass effect core, so either the Reaper was much larger (because I didn't see the ribs) then this one or the mass effect core is a seperate system and the one the Human Reaper had was just a power source for the size it was.
Presumably when it linked to it's power armor, it would start augmenting that power with the actual mass effect core and the one it had prior to that would become a secondary backup.

Hmm, I'm now wondering if this is the case, whether a Reaper can disengage from it's power armor shell and exist independently.

Wouldn't that be an awesome battle?

"Commander Shepherd, the Reaper is down, we killed it"
The plates on the underside of the Reaper bend outwards and the Reaper emerges from inside the shell.
"Shepherd to Normandy, looks like we have to finish the job".
Shepherd unholsters Collector Particle Beam weapon and looks meaningfully at the Reaper heading towards them.

[Taltalnen]

Ehh, not sure if I buy the power armor idea.
As far as the vast gap between the size and shape of the Reaper-fetus and all the other Reapers goes, I find it makes more sense if you think about actual growth and birth.

Human embryos, when they're first starting out look like any other animal's embryo- only later as they grow and develop do they physically differentiate into something recognizably human. They also grow exponentially.

If you think about it like that, maybe what the Reapers do is like the reverse of that. They take the very specialized, individual DNA source material (grey Gerber human paste), except as their embryo grows, and they fuse their technology to the organic base, it grows to look more like the squid-shape that is the basic Reaper template.

I don't think that a new Reaper is necessarily born every 50,000 years, either- since they were repurposed as Collectors, I don't think the Protheans passed Reaper muster.
Considering the comments Harbinger makes about your squadmates, and how few of them he considers worthy of "ascendance," maybe there are some cycles where there aren't any species that become Reapers, or maybe a few rare cycles where multiple species do.

All theory, of course.

[88mphSlayer]

Taltalnen wrote...

Ehh, not sure if I buy the power armor idea.
As far as the vast gap between the size and shape of the Reaper-fetus and all the other Reapers goes, I find it makes more sense if you think about actual growth and birth.

Human embryos, when they're first starting out look like any other animal's embryo- only later as they grow and develop do they physically differentiate into something recognizably human. They also grow exponentially.

If you think about it like that, maybe what the Reapers do is like the reverse of that. They take the very specialized, individual DNA source material (grey Gerber human paste), except as their embryo grows, and they fuse their technology to the organic base, it grows to look more like the squid-shape that is the basic Reaper template.

I don't think that a new Reaper is necessarily born every 50,000 years, either- since they were repurposed as Collectors, I don't think the Protheans passed Reaper muster.
Considering the comments Harbinger makes about your squadmates, and how few of them he considers worthy of "ascendance," maybe there are some cycles where there aren't any species that become Reapers, or maybe a few rare cycles where multiple species do.

All theory, of course.

it's already canon that the reaper larvae sits inside the shell with a steering wheel

[DrRedrum]

I am hoping someone has a save in the Derelict Reaper and takes some shots around the FTL core along the ceiling and walls. If it appears to be a ribcage it would explain some the of positioning of the reaper inside the shell.

[Tilarta]

Ask and ye shall recieve.

I located my Derelict Reaper savegame and used the Flycam to "explore" as much around the Core as I could.

Three Quarters view from the front.


The "tail" of the Core.


The side of the Core.


Behind the Core.


Way behind the Core!


Under the Core



I couldn't see anything that looked like ribs.

But the core itself did bear a vague resemblance to a Reaper, with the tentacles hanging down and the Cuttlefish "tail" extending behind it.

I'm assuming that if the Reaper has ribs, the metal plates are "hiding" them so nobody realizes what they assume is a spaceship is actually a living creature.

[88mphSlayer]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...

I don't really buy the idea of metal growing..

Nobody has still posted original concept art, strange.



How about this?

This was a thousand times better than what we saw in the end. It actually feels... creepy. It's not a terminator. I wonder what made them change?

that "brilliant" Bioware storytelling demanded a boss fight with weak points for massive damage and etc.

[noisecode]

88mphSlayer wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...

I don't really buy the idea of metal growing..

Nobody has still posted original concept art, strange.



How about this?

This was a thousand times better than what we saw in the end. It actually feels... creepy. It's not a terminator. I wonder what made them change?

that "brilliant" Bioware storytelling demanded a boss fight with weak points for massive damage and etc.

Did'nt look like a terminator to me.... just looked like a metalic grim reaper (after all the grim reaper IS a skeleton)  Thats probably why the Terminator's were skeleton like.  I suppose some people are just quick to point the finger and yell "Rip off".   These people typically don't understand that thier are no original ideas, just different spins or takes on them.

And I liked having to fight something that was massive (and still not fuilly grown) that could climb around the platform and launch metal vaporizing plasma at me.  Guess I'm in the minority.

the concept art is great..... loved the last boss fight though.

[Jonathan Shepard]

I love seeing this theory being spread around, especially because I was one of the original few who helped propogate it. It's also wonderful to know Mac Walters confirmed it. Not often are my theories correct, but it makes me happy when they are.

[Agamo45]

The core of the Derelict Reaper look somewhat like the structure of the Human-Reaper. I suspect that it would just have become the core.

[Khran1505]

It's already addressed in theory that the build of whatever looks like the species being turned into a Reaper is infact its core. Compare that with the overall size of the Reapers ranging from 600 metres to 1 kilometre, you have your hypothesis.

[Pride Demon]

Khran1505 wrote...

It's already addressed in theory that the build of whatever looks like the species being turned into a Reaper is infact its core. Compare that with the overall size of the Reapers ranging from 600 metres to 1 kilometre, you have your hypothesis.

^^ QFT.

The devs said that the reaper cores are later encased in the typical shells we see. So you theory (which is wonderful by the way! ) is very probably correct...

The only thing I doubt is the "growing" part: the devs have already confirmed reapers are not all the same size, like Khran said they range in size from the 2 km long dreadnought-class reaper we know (Sovereign and Harbinger), to the much smaller 500-600 m long cruiser-class reaper, so it's possible the human reaper was never thought as a dreadnought one and thus never ment to be 2 km long to begin with...

But for the rest I love your way of thinking! Good job OP!

[Whale]

Tilarta wrote...

Ask and ye shall recieve.

I located my Derelict Reaper savegame and used the Flycam to "explore" as much around the Core as I could.

Three Quarters view from the front.

[snip]

The "tail" of the Core.

[snip]

The side of the Core.

[snip]

Behind the Core.

[snip]

Way behind the Core!

[snip]

Under the Core

[snip]


I couldn't see anything that looked like ribs.

But the core itself did bear a vague resemblance to a Reaper, with the tentacles hanging down and the Cuttlefish "tail" extending behind it.

I'm assuming that if the Reaper has ribs, the metal plates are "hiding" them so nobody realizes what they assume is a spaceship is actually a living creature.

The lack of a ribcage could also be because of an exoskeleton structure - I always thought Sovereign looked a bit like an Eurypterid



in which case there wouldn't be any internal hard tissues anyway.

Re: size, a human embryo grows from ~1 mm to ~1700 mm (and it starts looking sort of animal-shaped quite early on), so the reaper growth is entirely within range

[88mphSlayer]

noisecode wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...

I don't really buy the idea of metal growing..

Nobody has still posted original concept art, strange.



How about this?

This was a thousand times better than what we saw in the end. It actually feels... creepy. It's not a terminator. I wonder what made them change?

that "brilliant" Bioware storytelling demanded a boss fight with weak points for massive damage and etc.

Did'nt look like a terminator to me.... just looked like a metalic grim reaper (after all the grim reaper IS a skeleton)  Thats probably why the Terminator's were skeleton like.  I suppose some people are just quick to point the finger and yell "Rip off".   These people typically don't understand that thier are no original ideas, just different spins or takes on them.

And I liked having to fight something that was massive (and still not fuilly grown) that could climb around the platform and launch metal vaporizing plasma at me.  Guess I'm in the minority.

the concept art is great..... loved the last boss fight though.

<_<

[Blacklash93]

Seeing that the "core" of the Derelict Reaper is nothing more than the typical cuttlefish look, it makes me question if Bioware really thought this out or if they just made it up as they went along. There's nothing inside the Derelict Reaper that suggests a design based off of a unique species anywhere.

And that concept art of the Reaper larva looks a million times better than what we actually got. I like how it resembles a husk-ified embryo.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 04 juin 2011 - 08:25 .

[R3MUS]

Well, Bioware have confirmed that the Reapers use the specific race as a core and then add the classic Reaper shell to it.

I think we will get all answers about the Reapers in Mass Effect 3. Just wait and see.

[Tilarta]

I'm still trying to work out the co-relation of the core to the Human Reaper.

We see a Mass Effect core in the chest of the creature, so this has to be linked to the power source somehow.

But this core doesn't look anything like that one.

And if the Reaper embryo becomes the core, then it would be wrapped around the core and holding it.

Also, that core in the picture is nowhere as near as large as the Human Reaper we encounter later in the game.


Although I'm loathe to admit it, it seems like they just tossed out ideas for "cool levels" and didn't stop to consider what would happen when we tried to analyze Reaper construction.


It's the one universal rule, a sci-fi fan will pick every little detail apart and try to work out how it all fits together! 

Modifié par Tilarta, 05 juin 2011 - 01:14 .

[Eshaye]

Pride Demon wrote...

Khran1505 wrote...

It's already addressed in theory that the build of whatever looks like the species being turned into a Reaper is infact its core. Compare that with the overall size of the Reapers ranging from 600 metres to 1 kilometre, you have your hypothesis.

^^ QFT.

The devs said that the reaper cores are later encased in the typical shells we see. So you theory (which is wonderful by the way! ) is very probably correct...

The only thing I doubt is the "growing" part: the devs have already confirmed reapers are not all the same size, like Khran said they range in size from the 2 km long dreadnought-class reaper we know (Sovereign and Harbinger), to the much smaller 500-600 m long cruiser-class reaper, so it's possible the human reaper was never thought as a dreadnought one and thus never ment to be 2 km long to begin with...

But for the rest I love your way of thinking! Good job OP!

+10

These are some really good thoughts. I was really wondering if reapers were actually a lot smaller then what we're thinking considering how well they can manipulate synthetic bodies, they don't actually need to be massively huge themselves to make something huge function. 

[cbutz]

I believe the "actual" reaper in the derelict reaper is in the spiky room. It is the room where the squad mates mention that it has some form of altar. If you look at it, it does look like a creature, perhaps being the species of the reaper. It is about the same size as the Human Reaper larva.

In addition, I believe that one of the developers hinted that the reapers have an outer shell that houses the actual reaper. I cannot find the source though. I think it was in the me 3 coverages but it was maybe a few months back.

In regards to the three eyed Human Reaper, I thought some of the Husks had more than 2 eyes.

[100k]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...

Nice post

However If the scale in your last picture was to be correct, the human Reaper (shown approx half the length of the full grown Reaper) would need to be approximately 1 kilometre long..

He addressed the scale in his post. He said that, big as the human reaper was, it would have to grow substantially for it to be the size of Sovereign.

He then went on to speculate that perhaps Reapers continue to grow after "birth" or the human reaper had quite a bit of growing to do.

Let's not forget that there are "Harvesters" in ME3. Maybe the Baby Reaper becomes part of the Harvester Reapers, which are then replicated as the giant two kilometer ships we see.

That way, the OPs pic remains valid (knowing that a Harvester is only a few hundred meters), while explaining the sizes.

[100k]

Fat Headed Wolf wrote...

P3G4SU5 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Rivercurse wrote...
I don't really buy the idea of metal growing..

Nobody has still posted original concept art, strange.



How about this?

Whenever I see this image I ask myself how the developers went from this to the terminator model we see in the game. The organism in this concept image actually looks like a Reaper organism and seems to capture the whole idea of the Reapers growing new offspring from human material so much better than the metallic, three-eyed rip-off we were presented with.

I would guess one of the reasons they scrapped it was because it would be kinda hard to fight. Looking at it, I don't see how it would move or what-not. Still, I prefer it to the final design. I don't see why we couldn't have had it instead. 

It would've been fairly easy to fight if the basic premise of the fight was that:

-You are revealed to the baby Reaper, and it attacks you
-You fly around it on those platforms, and shoot the injection tubes that hold it to the ceiling (maybe running from flying platform to platform as the Reaper saps power from them, dropping them like stones)
-You end up using other collector platforms as weapons, shooting the power supplies on the bottoms of the supports (all of the collector platforms have some sort of power supply in the bottom I noticed), to send them slicing into the Reaper like ninja stars.

But I'm betting that they took it out because it resembles a human fetus too much. As a developer, you may want to minimize the heat that your game could potentially get. If something that possibly symbolizes abortion is in a game like Mass Effect (which, like it or not, will find its way into the hands of 11 year olds) then a design change that ultimately leads to the same end result might be under consideration (Shepard > Human reaper = bottom line).
-

[R3MUS]

I think i am the only one who liked the terminator reaper. I think it was cool and kinda "haunting". It was really freaky when they melted down the humans into some kind of DNA goo and pumped into the Human Reaper.

The only problem i have is why it had three eyes and not two or four eyes..

[Pallid]

R3MUS wrote...

The only problem i have is why it had three eyes and not two or four eyes..

It was perfectly explained:

[Robhuzz]

R3MUS wrote...

I think i am the only one who liked the terminator reaper. I think it was cool and kinda "haunting". It was really freaky when they melted down the humans into some kind of DNA goo and pumped into the Human Reaper.

The only problem i have is why it had three eyes and not two or four eyes..

I kinda liked it as well, and I agree I thought it was really scary the first time I saw it. (Pretty much because I always seem to get a little edgy at night and it was 11 in the evening already). I did think it should've been slightly more organic though, this terminator reaper looked 100% machine to me and even though EDI stated the tubes feeding it organic material, it didn't seem like it needed that material at all. EDI tells us it's a hybrid organic/machine intelligence, at least make it look that way. Other than that, no real comments on the baby reaper's design.

Shepard did receive a datapad with the plans to build a reaper in the closing scene of ME2 though, so we'll probably get more info on this in ME3.

[Darkhour]

There is an assumption that because the reapers are called AIs, that the ship is them. EDI controls the normandy and experiences the world through it, but she is not the Normandy. She is a quantum blue box in the AI core.

I think the reaper is inside the ship in a control chamber. You'll probably end up boarding a live reaper and fighting it. Like the terminator, but of an new alien design and full grown. It'll make you hallucinate too. You'll see multiple phantom enemies and you won't know which ones are real. Squadmates will think you're a husk and you seeing them as husks. And the reaper itself laser eying the place to hell. Maybe it will even have a giant shotgun too. It'll be like the thorian fight but if the thorian actually did some fighting itself. The environment is going to get trashed. It's gonna be chaos. It'll be pretty nice.

Modifié par Darkhour, 05 juin 2011 - 12:22 .

[100k]

R3MUS wrote...

I think i am the only one who liked the terminator reaper. I think it was cool and kinda "haunting". It was really freaky when they melted down the humans into some kind of DNA goo and pumped into the Human Reaper.

The only problem i have is why it had three eyes and not two or four eyes..

So do human husks. Not that big of a deal.