189 réponses à ce sujet

[Frybread76]

AlexXIV wrote...

Also in ME2 you keep your crew. At the end of DA2 even the companions are gone. So you almost lost everything. People would probably respond better to a 'lack of choices' if the ending wasn't so ... depressive.

I agree.  But then how could Bioware make another "standalone" game without a whole new cast of characters?  It seems to be a forumla they've had for a while now and it's getting stale, IMO.

[Parrk]

Choices:

1) Play the game. Enjoy the story. Play many more times to ensure you've heard every piece of dialogue.

2) Play the game. Hate it. Play another game.

3) Play the game. Hate it. Roll a thousand threads on the Bio boards about everything you didn't like. Beg others to conform to your outlook.

4) Play the game. Love it. Answer those thousand threads on Bio boards in defense of game.

5) Don't play the game.



You always had a litany of differing choice options. The problem is that you chose poorly, and instead of choosing another option, want to complain that 4 wasn't 5, or 3 wasn't 2.

Your purchase of the game will always be enshrined in the sales figures which will always be seen as a testament to the game's success. It is very unlikely that anyone will ever base their choice on whether to buy the game on anything you write here.

You will have another choice in a couple of years. Take care to be more deliberate next time.

[paufiero]

I have to agree there really is no choice in this game with the exception of what side you end on. I loved the first game and really looked forward to this one and the only redeemable qualities in this game are the graphics. If you want real choice in a rpg then stick with the fallout series or oblivion. Lets hope the next one better.....because we will all buy it....

[mommachay]

i guess i don't really understand why people are so outraged by the options of choice in this/these games. if bioware really made a game where you had the option of killing loghain right off the bat, or taking anders out of the equation, then how would the game be fun or interesting? you have to have key points that cannot be changed or else the story would/could read: warden kills loghain and assists the king in victory, duncan survives, they regroup and attack the darkspawn (no need to get all the support from all of the alliances when you have the army's support), the blight is stopped before it really begins, caillan remains king, warden is a hero, and they all skip happily into the sunset!? that would take all of the enjoyment out of the game. you could potentially end the game in a couple hours. for those who wanted to kill anders before he blew up the chantry, i ask why? your hawke can't tell the future, so what explanation should bioware give in order for you to kill him? "well, anders, i think you may intend to do something bad, even though i have absolutely no proof of it right now, so imma kill you." the ending to that would be: hawke kills anders, handles the arishok and everything in between, goes to handle the dispute with meridith and orsino, tells them to get along or kills one of them (the people support her if she kills meredith bc she was out of control, they people support her if she kills orsino bc mages need to be watched, the people support her if they all just decide to get along), and they all skip happily into the sunset!? these options would bore me to death... some plot points are simply necessary in my opinion. also, it would take 5~6 years between games if bioware went so in depth to add all the options to the story line. the gaming world is fickle. i doubt bioware would risk one of it's top games because of this. it would simply take too long and people would lose interest.

[CarlSpackler]

paufiero wrote...

I have to agree there really is no choice in this game with the exception of what side you end on. I loved the first game and really looked forward to this one and the only redeemable qualities in this game are the graphics. If you want real choice in a rpg then stick with the fallout series or oblivion. Lets hope the next one better.....because we will all buy it....

Eh, different strokes for different folks.  I'm not really sure there were any significant choices in the storyline for Oblivion, but it has been 4 years since I played Oblivion, and those games really don't do much for me.  I'm as disapointed as the next guy in DA2, but I'll take DA2 over Fallout 3 and Oblivion any day.

[Azue]

Khayness wrote...

Best Served Cold.

'nuff said. I had to kill loads of reasonable templars and mages as a mage supporter.

Yea that quest was weird and confusing. 

[The dead fish]

@ Mommachay What I don't understand is your lack of understanding and comparisons that i see sometimes. ^^

I have the impression that you think people want the moon, point the problem that is completely unrealistic to correct. What makes no sense if you play dao as us.

Why all compare oblivion or I do not know what game to DA2 ? Why not just dao, to see how it has evolved and where there has been a regression ? If Da2 should be compared to a game, it is Dao, where there are great things in this game, elements that have seen their importance reduced.

Dao, could do incredible things, why DA2 could not do?  What is this resignation that I see everywhere?

To read you, I feel that what I ask is impossible to satisfy.

No, it's not impossible including allowing more individuality in the decisions, choices, alternatives, impact in what we decide.. They have done lots of times, they can start again. It wasn't done really in DA2.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 24 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[Miashi]

You have to put your rose-colored glasses off and think what a pure decision-based game implies. The Dragon Ages franchise was meant to be more than just Dragon Ages: Origins.

There’s so much one can do in offering an array of choices and maintain game continuity. Imagine how complex a game can become if key outcomes are different?

Branching off a game in many directions mean that these branches become their own entity. Somewhere, you have to draw a line. That line is mostly dictated by budget, and other resources such as – is the game going to fit on a disk or more than 1? Bioware drew their line and here's their result. Sure I’d like to have more choices, but realistically, how would that turn out? Probably a shorter game, or an even less polished game.

If you look back and take follow-up franchises, like Baldur’s Gate 1 and Baldur’s Gate 2: There was a lot you could do in Baldur’s Gate 1, like your companions could die permanently if they were zapped. My Janeira got zapped in BG1. Well guess what? Oh hi Janeira, here you are with me again, as if nothing happened. Did that break my BG2 experience? Not really, back then there were limitations, and today there still are limitations.

You have to appreciate that Bioware made an effort to improve the game experience in many aspects. They didn't succeed everywhere but they listen to player's feedback.

Although this was not my favourite game, I’m still glad I played it. Even if the ending left me somewhat wondering, I will be rolling another playthrough as evil and also sarcastic

Modifié par Miashi, 24 mars 2011 - 06:57 .

[Buckarama]

From my understanding the only choice that counts is which side are you on at the end, side with the templars and you get to keep everything and become the Viscount, side with the mages and you end up on the run with nothing, just the way the game started,.... except you have no family Woop woop!

[bluewolv1970]

Sylvianus wrote...

What fundamental choices are there in ME2? I know some smaller ones, as in DA II, but the only real choice I found in ME 2 was to keep the Collector Base or to destroy it. It's obvious DA II is a set up for DA 3, thus real choices can not really be made, except on which side you will be on in DA 3.

In m2, the main plot is to recruit and strengthen the loyalty of your troops.

In each mission of loyalty, there is a different ending, conciliatory or pragmatic. It is not only a difference of words chosen in the wheel with the same conclusion.

Examples of Mass Effect

In mass effect , you can kill Balack or not at the expenses of civils, save civilians or industries against missiles, you can kill the queen or save Rachni, kill Chiala or not, you can save the council or not, you can help Qu'iin or tthe administrative Anoleis his ennemy, or rather gianna parasini in a case of corruption.

You can help a Quarian to leave Omegaor or instead help those who tormented him and push him to never leave.

Do I need to list all we can do differently in Mass Effect ?

It has the same end, that's normal, but you can have a course, a different line.

I totally agree -  ME2 had a choice in just about every mission, including the last mission...heck even who you choose for different tasks has a dramatic effect on the endng and who lives or not...Dragon age II had  0 choices for each mission...a prime example is Act of Mercy...NO MATTER WHAT YOU do Grace and the mages end up hating you...if that was ME2 there would have been a way to pick a side and then simply have the other side be the villain in best served cold rather than your choice being meaningless...I mean why reply the game when all the main plot mission has absoulutely NO variety of chpice on how they play out...as another example  in DAO while ultimately you were goingt o fight the archdemon, at least you really did get to determine who your allies were, you didn't do the nature of the beast quest only to be told in the end no matter what you do the elves killt he werewolves, which is essentially how all DA II quests are resolved...

[Derax]

Often there actually is no choice when there seems to be choice in the first view so yes there is choice but not so much as in former rpg games.

[bluewolv1970]

what's even worse in DA II is when the game seems to give you a choice then ignores it...in Sheperding Wolves you can actually turn down sister petrice only to have her tell you to take the qunari into the tunnels which then forces you to do the quest which then forces on you the exact same ending...again by way of comparison that would have been like in DAO when you choose to not help Redcliff, as you were leaving Teagan thanked you for your support and then the battle begins with you in it...

[mommachay]

@sylvianus i think you assume a lot from my one post. also, i never compared dao or da2 to any other game... do i think some people want the world out of the game? yes. some people will always want to see the worst in everything, it is just the personality of some people (i am not implying that i am speaking of any one person specifically). do i think that da2 was the best game ever? no. there is plenty of room for change or improvement, but i was satisfied enough that i will buy the next one. i can see the reason for discussion on the subject, i just disagree with some people's opinions. i personally play these games because i enjoy the storylines, and the fact that not everything is purely black and white. many of the decisions don't come down to "this" is the good option and "that" is the bad option. if you make it possible to change every singular option then the game would take ages to come out (i'm impatient), and the story would not make such an impact. i figure these games tend to be like a pick~a~path book. some decisions greatly impact your end, and some are just for entertainment and filler. i would not have enjoyed dao if i made the mistake of killing loghain early on, and the game was over 2 hours later. that would have just... sucked. it would have taken all the enjoyment out of it. plus we have no concept of what bioware is dealing with when it comes to budget and deadlines. i enjoyed both games, and am looking forward to the next. i think this game was simply the plot set up in order to get the storyline to where they needed it to be for da3.

[Everwarden]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Our choices shape Hawke, rather then shaping Kirkwall.

Even that isn't true, sadly. I'd hate the game a lot less if I had a better reign over who Hawke is and how he reacts to situations. 

[Jaron Oberyn]

The game is really linear. It's extremely obvious after two playthroughs, trust me.

-Polite

[Lianaar]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
The game is really linear. It's extremely obvious after two playthroughs, trust me.
-Polite

While I love the game, this is true. The story is linear with main story events fixed. This is something bothering my husband, but something I am glad to endure in order for character interactions (be it with my char or npcs amongst each other).

[Lithuasil]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

The game is really linear. It's extremely obvious after two playthroughs, trust me.

-Polite

As was every game bioware has ever made ever. Only with this installment, they go the opposite route, and rather then trying to deceive us, give us a (for the most part) solid reason for the linearity.

[lx_theo]

Weird how your character didn't get to decide how the world reacted to stuff. Godlike choice system argh!! No, we instead get to form a character who reacts to the situation, but like most people, can't stop events from unfolding at the world's whim.

[Lithuasil]

lx_theo wrote...

Weird how your character didn't get to decide how the world reacted to stuff. Godlike choice system argh!! No, we instead get to form a character who reacts to the situation, but like most people, can't stop events from unfolding at the world's whim.

But if I don't get to save the universe, that's like totally bad roleplaying dude!

[fluorine7]

Do any of us has any choice in real life?

No matter what you do, you die in the end. I've never seen any choices that leads to any other outcome other than, DIE in the end, for all of us.

Does it means your choices has no impact in your life?

We all make choices, but in the end, our choices make us.

[The dead fish]

You have to put your rose-colored glasses off and think what a pure decision-based game implies. The Dragon Ages franchise was meant to be more than just Dragon Ages: Origins.

There’s so much one can do in offering an array of choices and maintain game continuity. Imagine how complex a game can become if key outcomes are different?

Branching off a game in many directions mean that these branches become their own entity. Somewhere, you have to draw a line. That line is mostly dictated by budget, and other resources such as – is the game going to fit on a disk or more than 1? Bioware drew their line and here's their result. Sure I’d like to have more choices, but realistically, how would that turn out? Probably a shorter game, or an even less polished game.

If you look back and take follow-up franchises, like Baldur’s Gate 1 and Baldur’s Gate 2: There was a lot you could do in Baldur’s Gate 1, like your companions could die permanently if they were zapped. My Janeira got zapped in BG1. Well guess what? Oh hi Janeira, here you are with me again, as if nothing happened. Did that break my BG2 experience? Not really, back then there were limitations, and today there still are limitations.

You have to appreciate that Bioware made an effort to improve the game experience in many aspects. They didn't succeed everywhere but they listen to player's feedback.

Although this was not my favourite game, I’m still glad I played it. Even if the ending left me somewhat wondering, I will be rolling another playthrough as evil and also sarcastic

I enjoyed too DA2.  As i said, it is a good game ( but a bad rpg for me ). And i appreciate also that bioware made an effort to improve, but, there are many areas where there are regression. For save rpg, it's important to point them. I know there are limitations, but, it's too much this time. I've never had to complain, not even in mass effect.

i think this game was simply the plot set up in order to get the storyline to where they needed it to be for da3.

When I read that, okay.

 

Weird how your character didn't get to decide how the world reacted to stuff. Godlike choice system argh!! No, we instead get to form a character who reacts to the situation, but like most people, can't stop events from unfolding at the world's whim.

But if I don't get to save the universe, that's like totally bad roleplaying dude!

But when I read it, then I say it is taking people for idiots, or you're really far, very far from a true reflection on what has been done. So it's just that your justification for linearity stultifying? That's your excuse for a bad RPG? I prefer to read what is above, is already more interesting and intelligent.

You do not seem to understand that everything has been done to prevent Hawke to decide anything, to follow a strict linearity, it decided to pretend to give a choice, which is actually ignored. That's it a matter of gameplay, not because supposedly nothing happens the way we want in life.

We thought the players are stupid, unable to recognize this illusion of choice, that's all. Nothing more stupid than taking players for idiots.

The choice between circle and the Templars, that's a real decision. The rest in most of the quests is illusion, a smoke screen in a sloppy game.It's the same for the reuse of maps, we thought again that players are stupid. No they aren't stupids. They are able to think quickly and notice wrong things.

I'm curious. What a silly excuse will you find me this time for justy reuse of maps ?  thank you Bioware at least for being honest about it.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 24 mars 2011 - 10:29 .

[Lithuasil]

Sylvianus wrote...
I'm curious. What a silly excuse will you find me this time for justy reuse of maps ?  thank you Bioware at least for being honest about it.

While it didn't bother me too much, I know they did - but it's surprisingly easy to excuse if you want to, really.

[Everwarden]

scyphozoa wrote...

Not being able to kill Sister Patrice made me cringe and made me realize how much I appreciate sandbox games like Fallout New Vegas.

I dont put up with bull**** lip from NPCs. Bioware should make a sandbox so when NPCs give me **** I can just kill them on the spot. Works great in Fallout NV, nothing I love more than wiping out entire factions. And there is no greater consequence than changing the political and social landscape of a game by removing factions and npc leaders, and specifically, quests and story arcs exclusive to that faction. Now that is a consequence.

How dare you sully the good name of New Vegas by bringing it up in the same breath as Dragon Age 2!?!? How dare you?!

..wait, now I did it. *stones self*

Modifié par Everwarden, 24 mars 2011 - 10:45 .