85 réponses à ce sujet

[Saboteur-6]

Not so much in his devout adherence to the Qun (which I like) but the fact that he can't be taken into the group as a party member? Would've been a nice Mage character SEPRATE from the political Templar vs Circle BS that railroaded Act 3 while still staying true to the theme of opressed magic users. There are a lot of parallels in the way the Qun and the Qunari view Saarebas and the way the Chantry and the Templars view mages. The wiki indicates that "Bioware had originally intended Ketojan as a potential party member but the idea was scrapped."

A shame really...I'm guessing it was a time constraint thing?

[Gamer Ftw]

Omg yes I kept his amulet with me I felt horrible.

[Kryyptehk]

Yeah, I was really hoping Ketojan could have been a party member. I like his quest a lot and I like how it ends, but he would have been an awesome companion.

And not only would you get a mage who was neutral to the mage/templar thing but also someone involved with the qunari thing in the middle of the game. Would have been interesting.

[Cat Fancy]

For the life of me, I don't get the fascination with the Qunari in general and Ketojan specifically. I never suspected he was going to be a party member and I'm surprised and that so many people did (and that their suspicions weren't even unfounded! weeeeird). I don't really think the plot of this game had any point (it couldn't possibly because the writers were trying to create a world in which both sides were equally right), but I think Templars vs. Circle was more of a thing than Magic Users vs. Whoever. Merrill kinda fits the bill, anyway. She was opposed to the Circle, but it didn't mean as much to her as the political characters. Were Ketojan a companion, he'd likely just have a more restrictive view on mages.

[Saboteur-6]

umwhatyousay wrote...

For the life of me, I don't get the fascination with the Qunari in general and Ketojan specifically. I never suspected he was going to be a party member and I'm surprised and that so many people did (and that their suspicions weren't even unfounded! weeeeird). I don't really think the plot of this game had any point (it couldn't possibly because the writers were trying to create a world in which both sides were equally right), but I think Templars vs. Circle was more of a thing than Magic Users vs. Whoever. Merrill kinda fits the bill, anyway. She was opposed to the Circle, but it didn't mean as much to her as the political characters. Were Ketojan a companion, he'd likely just have a more restrictive view on mages.

Well obviously personal likes/dislikes are subjective but I thought the Qunari threat in Act 2 was a lot more interesting than the events of Act 3. Or rather...the events in Act 2 played out more interesting.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the plot of this game didn't have a point" as it was obviously a way to setup a Circle vs Chantry rebellion in an upcoming sequel.  You also misunderstand what I meant by "sharing a parellel theme". to put it simply:

Chantry/Templar view of Magic: "Mages are dangerous, unpredictable, and require the intervention of the Chantry to ensured servitude to mankind. As per the will of the Maker."

Qunari view of Saarebas (Qunari Mages): "Saarebas are dangerous, unpredictable, and require the intervention of an Arvaarad to ensure servitude to the Qunari. As per the way of the Qun."

OR simplified further:

"Magic is bad. Oppression is mandatory."

It's really an example of fear dictating and shaping large-scale views of Magic in Thedas, validated by instituional constructs such as religion (The Chantry) and totalitarinsim (The Qun and Qunari culture).

So yeah, Ketojan wouldv'e provided an AWESOME opportunity to delve into this theme. Instead we get dip**** Anders.

Modifié par Vech24, 24 mars 2011 - 04:03 .

[Gamer Ftw]

umwhatyousay wrote...

For the life of me, I don't get the fascination with the Qunari in general and Ketojan specifically. I never suspected he was going to be a party member and I'm surprised and that so many people did (and that their suspicions weren't even unfounded! weeeeird). I don't really think the plot of this game had any point (it couldn't possibly because the writers were trying to create a world in which both sides were equally right), but I think Templars vs. Circle was more of a thing than Magic Users vs. Whoever. Merrill kinda fits the bill, anyway. She was opposed to the Circle, but it didn't mean as much to her as the political characters. Were Ketojan a companion, he'd likely just have a more restrictive view on mages.

I am not big on the Quinari But I felt sorry for this tortured brainwashed mage that felt he had to die.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 24 mars 2011 - 03:55 .

[Trophonius]

Vech24 wrote...

The wiki indicates that "Bioware had originally intended Ketojan as a potential party member but the idea was scrapped."

A shame really...I'm guessing it was a time constraint thing?

So he's basically DA2's Jowan then? Damn. Besides, I wasn't expecting Ketojan to be a companion anyway since Bioware confirmed we weren't getting a qunari party member. His fate is abysmal either way; executed on your command or self-immolation. It's a shame indeed.

DA3, give us our own Saarebas please?

[Lauretha_L]

Qun is a lie. It is known.

[Saboteur-6]

Trophonius wrote...

Vech24 wrote...

The wiki indicates that "Bioware had originally intended Ketojan as a potential party member but the idea was scrapped."

A shame really...I'm guessing it was a time constraint thing?

So he's basically DA2's Jowan then? Damn. Besides, I wasn't expecting Ketojan to be a companion anyway since Bioware confirmed we weren't getting a qunari party member. His fate is abysmal either way; executed on your command or self-immolation. It's a shame indeed.

DA3, give us our own Saarebas please?

See I didn't follow DA 2 development that close and hadn't heard anything about confirmed party members. Also I tend to believe that Ketojan at some point might've been a companion possibility as there were several clues in his mission  "Sheperding the Wolves".

[Saboteur-6]

Kelenthial wrote...

Qun is a lie. It is known.

The Qunari might disagree. With swords...and lightning.

Modifié par Vech24, 24 mars 2011 - 04:35 .

[Dragonette29]

I was really disappointed
And then angry. Reminded me of religious extremists.

[Saboteur-6]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

umwhatyousay wrote...

For the life of me, I don't get the fascination with the Qunari in general and Ketojan specifically. I never suspected he was going to be a party member and I'm surprised and that so many people did (and that their suspicions weren't even unfounded! weeeeird). I don't really think the plot of this game had any point (it couldn't possibly because the writers were trying to create a world in which both sides were equally right), but I think Templars vs. Circle was more of a thing than Magic Users vs. Whoever. Merrill kinda fits the bill, anyway. She was opposed to the Circle, but it didn't mean as much to her as the political characters. Were Ketojan a companion, he'd likely just have a more restrictive view on mages.

I am not big on the Quinari But I felt sorry for this tortured brainwashed mage that felt he had to die.

Exactly! That's what the writers want you to feel since it's essentially the same emotional response they go for with the Circle Mage's treatment by the Chantry.

So instead of playing the game and making decisions like , "**** yeah Anders, let's blow up the Chantry! Raaaawr!". You would've been making decisions/interactions clashing with Ketojan's fundamental view of himself and the Qunari...likely culminating in "**** yeah Ketojan, let's blow up the Arishok! No? Arlight well let's at least yell mean things at him while we let the air out of his tires."

So the emotional hook was there and the moral dileema would've been that Ketojan would've actually disagreed with you since he's a product of a DEVOUT cultural ideology in the Qun.

Modifié par Vech24, 24 mars 2011 - 04:34 .

[Gamer Ftw]

I would have so helped Ketojan blow up the Ariskok...

[Cat Fancy]

Vech24 wrote...

Well obviously personal likes/dislikes are subjective but I thought the Qunari threat in Act 2 was a lot more interesting than the events of Act 3. Or rather...the events in Act 2 played out more interesting.

I dislike the Qunari and think they're just dull humans, for the most part, but I won't deny that Act 2 was more interesting than Act 3 (which was the worst).

I'm not sure what you mean by "the plot of this game didn't have a point" as it was obviously a way to setup a Circle vs Chantry rebellion in an upcoming sequel.

I just meant that the game is posing questions then doing its damndest to make it so that all of the answers its willing to provide are equally unstatisfying. I don't think that's a particularly interesting or worthy goal. I think it's pointless. I recognize it's setting things up for the sequel. I just don't care about the overarching plot. I have started every sentence in this paragraph with "I."

So yeah, Ketojan wouldv'e provided an AWESOME opportunity to delve into this theme. Instead we get dip**** Anders.

Anders was necessary to this game's plot. If Ketojan had to replace anyone, it would be Merrill. He would act as a foil to Anders, in all likelihood.

Modifié par umwhatyousay, 24 mars 2011 - 04:39 .

[Captain Iglo]

His suicide, or "living by the Qun", was perfect to give the best picture of the Qunari and the way their society works.
Maybe he could have followed you a bit longer until you met some Qunari, but making him somehow "free" would have ruined the entire picture the player should get of the Qunari.

[Saboteur-6]

Captain Iglo wrote...

His suicide, or "living by the Qun", was perfect to give the best picture of the Qunari and the way their society works.
Maybe he could have followed you a bit longer until you met some Qunari, but making him somehow "free" would have ruined the entire picture the player should get of the Qunari.

That's the beauty though BioWare anticipated this and wrote in that Hawke came to possess Ketojan's "control rod" thus becoming Ketojan's (potential) new Aravaard. This is further supported during the exchange before exiting the underground passage where Ketojan finally takes action to seemingly protect Hawke.

While I agree that Ketojan's self-immolation is a nice glimps into the Qunari culture, I would've rather have seen it played out more in-depth with him as a companion.

Modifié par Vech24, 24 mars 2011 - 04:57 .

[Saboteur-6]

umwhatyousay wrote...

Vech24 wrote...

Well obviously personal likes/dislikes are subjective but I thought the Qunari threat in Act 2 was a lot more interesting than the events of Act 3. Or rather...the events in Act 2 played out more interesting.

I dislike the Qunari and think they're just dull humans, for the most part, but I won't deny that Act 2 was more interesting than Act 3 (which was the worst).

I'm not sure what you mean by "the plot of this game didn't have a point" as it was obviously a way to setup a Circle vs Chantry rebellion in an upcoming sequel.

I just meant that the game is posing questions then doing its damndest to make it so that all of the answers its willing to provide are equally unstatisfying. I don't think that's a particularly interesting or worthy goal. I think it's pointless. I recognize it's setting things up for the sequel. I just don't care about the overarching plot. I have started every sentence in this paragraph with "I."

So yeah, Ketojan wouldv'e provided an AWESOME opportunity to delve into this theme. Instead we get dip**** Anders.

Anders was necessary to this game's plot. If Ketojan had to replace anyone, it would be Merrill. He would act as a foil to Anders, in all likelihood.

Oh gotcha...you didn't like the game.

[Captain Iglo]

Vech24 wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...

His suicide, or "living by the Qun", was perfect to give the best picture of the Qunari and the way their society works.
Maybe he could have followed you a bit longer until you met some Qunari, but making him somehow "free" would have ruined the entire picture the player should get of the Qunari.

That's the beauty though BioWare anticipated this and wrote in that Hawke came to possess Ketojan's "control rod" thus becoming Ketojan's (potential) new Aravaard. This is further supported during the exchange before exiting the underground passage where Ketojan finally takes action to seemingly protect Hawke.

While I agree that Ketojan's self-immolation is a nice glimps into the Qunari culture, I would've rather have seen it played out more in-depth with him as a companion.

Havent thought about that. You taking control over him with the rod. However I think that would have created some serious trouble with some other Party Members. More then just some rivalry points. So while very interesting possibility, I guess that would have been to much considering the budget and timelimit.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 24 mars 2011 - 05:05 .

[Saboteur-6]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Vech24 wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...

His suicide, or "living by the Qun", was perfect to give the best picture of the Qunari and the way their society works.
Maybe he could have followed you a bit longer until you met some Qunari, but making him somehow "free" would have ruined the entire picture the player should get of the Qunari.

That's the beauty though BioWare anticipated this and wrote in that Hawke came to possess Ketojan's "control rod" thus becoming Ketojan's (potential) new Aravaard. This is further supported during the exchange before exiting the underground passage where Ketojan finally takes action to seemingly protect Hawke.

While I agree that Ketojan's self-immolation is a nice glimps into the Qunari culture, I would've rather have seen it played out more in-depth with him as a companion.

Havent thought about that. You taking control over him with the rod. However I think that would have created some serious trouble with some other Party Members. More then just some rivalry points. So while very interesting possibility, I guess that would have been to much considering the budget and timelimit.

It wouldn't have been against his will though since his will is bound by the Qun and thus to his Aravaard. Seriously replay "Sheperding the Wolves" and just pay attention to the interactions and dialogue. It's just peppered with "potential companion" foreshadow.

Modifié par Vech24, 24 mars 2011 - 05:09 .

[Captain Iglo]

Vech24 wrote...

It wouldn't have been against his will though since his will is bound by the Qun and thus to his Aravaard. Seriously replay "Sheperding the Wolves" and just pay attention to the interactions and dialogue. It's just peppered with "potential companion" foreshadow.

I know what you mean. And I actually had the feeling too like "huh hes becoming companion now?".

I just mean, ok since youre controling what he does it is what he is supposed to do and so it is his will. But still dont you think that people like Anders who is fighting to free all mages from any kind of control would just sit by while youre controling this guy with a stick and give him orders he has no choice to disagree.And I cant see Aveline or Sebastian being to pleased with that too. And I dont mean here have some rivalry points. More like "I cant fight alongside you while you do this to him."
But I guess thats the interesting part about the Qunari that they choose to have no choice.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 24 mars 2011 - 05:26 .

[Lasien]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Vech24 wrote...

It wouldn't have been against his will though since his will is bound by the Qun and thus to his Aravaard. Seriously replay "Sheperding the Wolves" and just pay attention to the interactions and dialogue. It's just peppered with "potential companion" foreshadow.

I know what you mean. And I actually had the feeling too like "huh hes becoming companion now?".

I just mean, ok since youre controling what he does it is what he is supposed to do and so it is his will. But still dont you think that people like Anders who is fighting to free all mages from any kind of control would just sit by while youre controling this guy with a stick and give him orders he has no choice to disagree.And I cant see Aveline or Sebastian being to pleased with that too. And I dont mean here have some rivalry points. More like "I cant fight alongside you while you do this to him."
But I guess thats the interesting part about the Qunari that they choose to have no choice.

But they could have played it out differently than "I have the control rod, do what I say." You could have tried to convince him he wasn't cursed and didn't need to die, then broken the rod and unlocked the collar, for instance. There were so many different directions to go with it.

[Mary Kirby]

Vech24 wrote...

The wiki indicates that "Bioware had originally intended Ketojan as a potential party member but the idea was scrapped."

A shame really...I'm guessing it was a time constraint thing?

Er...no. He was never planned as a party member. I have no idea where people are getting that idea from. Every party member we intended is in the game.

[Loc'n'lol]

OMG it's Mary !

[Maria Caliban]

Vech24 wrote...

Not so much in his devout adherence to the Qun (which I like) but the fact that he can't be taken into the group as a party member? Would've been a nice Mage character SEPRATE from the political Templar vs Circle BS that railroaded Act 3 while still staying true to the theme of opressed magic users. There are a lot of parallels in the way the Qun and the Qunari view Saarebas and the way the Chantry and the Templars view mages. The wiki indicates that "Bioware had originally intended Ketojan as a potential party member but the idea was scrapped."

A shame really...I'm guessing it was a time constraint thing?

Ketojan was bad ass because he submitted to the Qun to the very end, even setting himself ablaze to fulfill his demands.

If he said, "Welp, that was fun, I'm going to join you now!" he'd no longer be badass.

No, it wasn't a time constraint. It was good writing.

[Tielis]

His lips are sewn shut. *shudder*