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[GholaHalleck]

Alright, Bear with me here.

Now, According to the Chantry, and most human historical notes, the Tevinter's were the ones who became the first Darkspawn, when they opened a way to the Golden City, tracked mud all over the rugs, and the Maker kicked them out and twisted them into what would be known as the dark spawn.
Seemed nice and clean as an orgin story no?
However, the more I've played the games, the more I've started to wonder if it wasn't all just one long standing lie. It jsut doesn't seem to fit with how the darkspawn act, where the darkspawn are, and how they normally function outside of a Blight. With DA2, we've been given a possible glimpse into what I believe is the true face of the Darkspawn, and explains other parts of the DA lore better then having Tevinter blamed for everything.

The Darkspawn began with the Dwarves. It was them, and not the tevinters, who were warped into the first darkspawn.They were warped into the darkspawn, in part, by the Red Lyrium viens Hawke and Varric found in DA2.

Varric's brother's reaction to the idol was what started this in my head, judging from his and meridith's reactions to prolonged exposure to it, it *does* have a currupting influance on those exposed.
Another damning bit of evidance is that he keeps talking about "the song" from the idol. That it sang to him, and who else talks about a song? The Mother. She says the darkspawn all follow the Song, that without it, they go insane.
Given enough time exposed to that lyrium, the dwarves of Valdasine Tiag, which is probably the name of the tiag Hawke and Varric found, were turned just as meridith was turned. Why does this matter you ask? Here's where things get tin foil hat.

Dwarves used to be tied to the Fade. The assumption that so much expussure to raw lyruim cut all dwarves off from the Fade is a fabracation. Surface dwarves, even ones who have been many generatations removed from underground, are just as blocked as those who are tiag bound.
If it was only raw lyrium that caused this, the surface dwarves would have eventually cleansed it from their biology, and been able to be mages, or at least dream. So why are dwarves cut one and all from the Fade? It was because it was the Dwarven Magisters, not the Magisters of Tevinter, who attempted to breach the Golden City.

What proof do I have for this? The tiag itself gives us many hints. The oldest tiag found has no statues of Paragons, they worshiped something else. Something they crafted an idol of in the Red Lyrium, which sang to them. Also, to tie them into the Chantry myth, we have the codex for this staff, found in the Taig.dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Valdasine_%28Dragon_Age_II%29 sounds a lot like the Tevinter myth doesn't it?

Dwarves were once mages, and tied to the Fade just like every other race in Thadas, that's why all their nobility use mage staves when they are in session, it's a call back to their magister roots, that even they have forgotten. Their attempt to breach the seat of the Maker stripped their entire people of the ability to work magic, and in anger at al ldwarves being blaimed for the actions of one clan, the dwarves turned from the Maker, and embraced Paragon worship.

To add to this, why would the darkspawn, if they began with humans, spend all their time in the Deep Roads? They have no aversion to sunlight, they aren't bound to stay within the earth if they don't wish to be there. So why, if they were human, did they destroy every tiag and dwarven population center, when they could have simply stayed above ground and done the same to human lands?

Also, there's Sandal. He's shown using what I can only call enchating munitions, or, if you wanted to see it, actual spells infused into rocks, to take down masses of darkspawn, and in DA2's case turning an orgre into solid ice. Sandal may be the first Dwarven mage born in centuries, autistic sure, but look at the power in that little bugger. And, if yo uwanted to be extra tin foil hat, he mentions seeing a "Scary laughing old lady" hovering over his bed. Flemeth perhaps?

Chip away my eager for blood forum-goers, I'm intrested in seeing if anyone else feels this way or if I'm utterly daft.

[WhiteKnyght]

According to what was said in Origins' codex, the ritual the magisters used supposedly drained 1/3 of all the Lyrium in Tevinter and a massive sacrifice of slaves. But when you get a close up of the Black City in Awakening it(The Blackmarsh Undying, across the lake behind the Baroness' mansion) doesn't actually look like a city, just a giant mountain.

The Black City is connected to it all somehow. Avernus says in his dreams he feels being drawn towards the black city because of the taint in him.

But I don't think mages are to blame like Andraste claimed. Flemeth is a more viable suspect because she is old enough, powerful enough, and knows things about the darkspawn and taint which are unknown to others or at the least are top secret. She also has magics that can ward off the darkspawn.

[GholaHalleck]

Well I also think Flemeth is tied to Andraste.

Andraste, Flemeth, and Morrigan are the Lady, Crone and Virgin basically. Only snarky wenches.

[WhiteKnyght]

Morrigan was hardly a virgin and Andraste and Flemeth were both notably married to Maferath and Osen(Well the official husband of Flemeth was Connobar but w/e).

[GholaHalleck]

And how do you know she had banged anyone prior to warden/alister/logain hmm? She was virginal when it came to society. She has no idea how other people think or act, she's not so much a mini flemeth as something unable to understand the human world. Sure she was a ****, but she was honest in her opions and never hid what she though of anyone. the only time she lied was because Flemeth demanded it of her. In witch hunt she doesn't even *want* to do what she's doing.

[GholaHalleck]

Bloody double post...

Modifié par GholaHalleck, 24 mars 2011 - 03:42 .

[Dasha Dreyson]

Meh, I sometimes wonder if it wasn't started by the Dread Wolf and that the Chantry's Maker isn't the Dread Wolf in disguise. (Though the same could be said of Flemeth if you think Flemeth could be an old god.)

As far as darkspawn, I think they are a symptom of the taint and not the other way around. Some of the legends said that the old gods were corrupted by the taint and then became archdemons. So if the Dread Wolf wanted to get rid of adversaries, the taint would be like a poison to their minds. If the Dalish stories have foothold in Dragon Age reality, then it would make sense that the Dread Wolf *could* have created it.

Since the old gods were defeated and buried in the earth, the taint spread first to the dwarves (creating the genlock). I wonder if being buried in the earth also caused lyrium to start forming. I also wonder if dwarves lost the ability to dream as a defense against the taint or if there is another explanation.

This isn't necessarily what I think, but since it's the most interesting theory I have, it's the one I want to share... and of course possession is the only way to cure tranquility.

[Alexein]

I'm not certain whether the OP is right, but i do certainly agree there are deeper things happening with roots all the way back to the first blight. Bioware writing is good enough that something subtle as a thaig with no paragons does have meaning.

I like the idea the dwarves might have worshipped something else. Whether they had mages or whether sandal fits in i'm not certain. Sandal seems more of a character made for the fans rather than part of the lore. So he might have rule exceptions for him, (powers he's not supposed to have).

The role of flemeth has been deliberately obscured so i guess bioware wants a big shocker or reveal to be called upon in a future game, like DA4 we find flemeth is (insert wild theory here).

but yeah, a lot more going on and bioware is dropping hints like anvils.

Modifié par Alexein, 24 mars 2011 - 03:53 .

[GholaHalleck]

Dasha Dreyson wrote...

Since the old gods were defeated and buried in the earth, the taint spread first to the dwarves (creating the genlock). I wonder if being buried in the earth also caused lyrium to start forming. I also wonder if dwarves lost the ability to dream as a defense against the taint or if there is another explanation.

Hmm. a Flemeth is the Dread Wolf, tricking the Creators into leaving the mortal coil...  i like that. Flemth does have a kinship with the Dalish.

Maybe the Creators were the Old Gods, dragons that taught the elves their magic. Maybe they were tainted by... something, and went all vengeful wrath of god on everyone. Flemeth was one of them, not effected by the taint, and bound them into the earth, not knowing they'd taint the dwarves into darkspawn.

It would explain why she'd care about the Wardens, and how she'd have a way to confuse the darkspawn from finding her house... and explain Morrigan's "Not a blood mage or abomination" line in witch hunt... 

I like it! 

[GholaHalleck]

OH OH! Also, For each Blight, the elves seemed ot have lost something. the last blight was the Dragon of Beauty... and look what happened to Zevran! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!

[dreman9999]

I think the idol may be a sleeping Old God.
Also, the dalish believe that the fade/veil is another relem completly.
In my book, the dalish have a better understand of magic than Humans.

[RazorrX]

I remember finding a book or something in DA:O that talks about how the elves and dwarves sealed the dragon paragons deep in the earth. (old gods?)

So yeah, I am with you that it is most likely something the dwarves did and Tevinter is just getting the blame because of Andraste's holy war.

[WhiteKnyght]

GholaHalleck wrote...

And how do you know she had banged anyone prior to warden/alister/logain hmm? She was virginal when it came to society. She has no idea how other people think or act, she's not so much a mini flemeth as something unable to understand the human world. Sure she was a ****, but she was honest in her opions and never hid what she though of anyone. the only time she lied was because Flemeth demanded it of her. In witch hunt she doesn't even *want* to do what she's doing.

Simple, conversation. she admits to having relations with men in the past if you go the friendship route with her.

[dreman9999]

GholaHalleck wrote...

And how do you know she had banged anyone prior to warden/alister/logain hmm? She was virginal when it came to society. She has no idea how other people think or act, she's not so much a mini flemeth as something unable to understand the human world. Sure she was a ****, but she was honest in her opions and never hid what she though of anyone. the only time she lied was because Flemeth demanded it of her. In witch hunt she doesn't even *want* to do what she's doing.

Morigan is not a virgin when you met her. She's logical and instinctive. She tells you her self thatshe slept with other men. And it very clear she likes sex, she used it to empower herself.