147 réponses à ce sujet

[Lithuasil]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

The combat system was fine and had would have not improved on the fact that you had one city to explore with the same squared off alleys. Or the other 4 locations with re-skinned dungeons.

Actually, with the combat system I keep proposing (which works from first person) it would have improved. I agree that more different dungeons would have been nice (though no dungeons and all, and fighting in places where people actually do that, would have been nicer). But then, if you would go down to the sewers in where ever you live - how much variety do you expect to find?

[royceclemens]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I just want a better plot. If DA2 had better pacing and a plot that had some drive then I'd be one of big defenders.

I love the crafting change, I love the combat speed and variety. I love the dialogue. I love the side quests.

....but the central pillar of the game, its main plot, is missing. It leaves the game feeling hollow.

We may have to agree to disagree, here.  While one (And I'm not assuming you personally) may like DAO's plot because it's more epic, I like DA2's plot just a smidge more because it's more intimate.

And intimate though the main plot may be, it's genius lies in sustaining multiple subplots within Kirkwall, hammering home the fragile ecosystem that the city is.  A man looking for his wife in the first act has earth-shattering ramifications well into the third.  A chance meeting in a bar brings Kirkwall to near ruin.  A beggar in Darktown you wouldn't look twice at catches the attention of the city's higher-ups.  The more I play through, the more impressed I am by how interconnected things really are. 

I can only speak for me, but I prefer that to diet Lord of the Rings, myself.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Lithuasil wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

The combat system was fine and had would have not improved on the fact that you had one city to explore with the same squared off alleys. Or the other 4 locations with re-skinned dungeons.

Actually, with the combat system I keep proposing (which works from first person) it would have improved. I agree that more different dungeons would have been nice (though no dungeons and all, and fighting in places where people actually do that, would have been nicer). But then, if you would go down to the sewers in where ever you live - how much variety do you expect to find?

They seemed to manage in the first game. Really you could have done anything with the combat, the world would have still felt small and confined compared to the first. First person view would have just reminded me that my character is trapped in the bottle known as the Free Marches.

[johook213]

papality wrote...

johook213 wrote...

papality wrote...

you seriously think this is a better game than the first knights of the old republic, both mass effects, and the first dragon age? go check yourself into a psych ward, you're clearly unbalanced

I hate Star Wars, am no a sci-fi fan, and I don't find FPS to be fun.  So yes, I think DA2 is more enjoyable than KOTOR and both Mass effects.  This is, of course, 100% based on my own preferences and very biased..... but in all honestly, most of the feedback DA2 has received is also...

enjoyable is fine, that's subjective, he said it was superior in every way, implying objective standards that DA2 far and away exceeds its competitors in, which is just not true

DA2 is superior to those other games, but that's my opinion.  KOTOR, ME, ME2 is totally preference... i don't like those types of games.  However, Neverwinter Nights... I do like those types of games, and I did try it, and i HATED that game.  (Note that despite me hating this game and loving Baldur's Gate, I did not jump on forums and declare Bioware dead to me or having betrayed me or the name of RPGs or whatever rubbish is flying around about DA2). The story in Neverwinter Nights was very weak, the NPCs very bland... I don't see how anyone could say that Neverwinter Nights is better than DA2... lol. Just like Morrowind.. oh gosh, you had 20 NPCs with 5 different dialogue's between them. ugh! Talk about recycling/copy-and-pasting!  =P

The only true flaw I can find in DA2 is the recycled environments.  I wish they hadn't done that so much and let it be so obvious.... but other than that I can't find anything wrong with the game.  Bugs can be annoying too, but I am patiently waiting for patches.  I keep in mind that the "masterpiece" BG2 was a lot more buggy on it's release.

Of course, I am not as nitpicky as some others.  I swear, the way people on these forums pick things apart I can't even imagine they could find satisfaction out of anything in life. 

Modifié par johook213, 25 mars 2011 - 03:50 .

[Lithuasil]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

They seemed to manage in the first game. Really you could have done anything with the combat, the world would have still felt small and confined compared to the first. First person view would have just reminded me that my character is trapped in the bottle known as the Free Marches.

Hawke is trapped there, just as much as the warden is trapped in the four patches of twohundred square yards of terrain brown in ferelden - at least Hawke doesn't have much reason to leave, whereas the warden has all the reason in the world to leg it 

[Greed1914]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

I liked my Cousland more than my Hawke, but to be honest, I play the game for the companions and the lore. DA2 added more lore and had a more interesting setting than DA:O (though of course, Origins was more varied). Companion-wise, Origins had more memorable companions overall but DA2 developed them more (and Merrill's my favorite rpg companion in general), especially how some of the companions actually HATED each other, which was great.

Have to agree about the companions.  They might not have been as over-the-top as in Origins, but they seem more like people that have been shaped by their lives up to the point of meeting Hawke, and now have their respective opinions and methods.  I really enjoyed that it was quite clear that Fenris wanted mages locked up because he experienced what can happen if mages get out of control, or that Anders didn't like Merrill because she was a blood mage.  It makes for a very interesting story when your responses have a chance of making one person happy while making another mad, and both seem to be legitimate.  I had to accept that Fenris and I weren't going to be best buds because we simply disagreed too often.

[Foolsfolly]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Except they took that chore a little too far in the other direction and made the world into a play pen. They really need to find a happy medium.

As I said (oh so often) - a proper combat system would go a long long way.

The combat system was fine and had would have not improved on the fact that you had one city to explore with the same squared off alleys. Or the other 4 locations with re-skinned dungeons.

I enjoyed the combat too. It was an improvement over DA:O's system. It was easy to pick up and yet there were still things to learn as you played.

The Mach 5 Beserker/Reaver build from these forums is especially fun and powerful. And there's still things you learn about the combat and how certain skills can benefit others.

BioWare used to have really unexciting and out-dated combat systems. They're trying to change that and I respect it.

[Lithuasil]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I enjoyed the combat too. It was an improvement over DA:O's system. It was easy to pick up and yet there were still things to learn as you played.

The Mach 5 Beserker/Reaver build from these forums is especially fun and powerful. And there's still things you learn about the combat and how certain skills can benefit others.

BioWare used to have really unexciting and out-dated combat systems. They're trying to change that and I respect it.

I'm not saying it's bad - it's better then what they had to this point, but the single biggest room for improvement bioware has, is to connect their gameplay properly to the world they're building. And the mmo-style gameplay they have at the moment, doesn't quite do that.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Lithuasil wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

They seemed to manage in the first game. Really you could have done anything with the combat, the world would have still felt small and confined compared to the first. First person view would have just reminded me that my character is trapped in the bottle known as the Free Marches.

Hawke is trapped there, just as much as the warden is trapped in the four patches of twohundred square yards of terrain brown in ferelden - at least Hawke doesn't have much reason to leave, whereas the warden has all the reason in the world to leg it 

The Warden couldn't "leg it" with a blight to stop. And I don't get why everyone complains about Fereldan's palate.You at least had some different scenery there. The Free Marches seems way browner too me considering you have only a few small maps to explore whereas Ferelden had several. A night/day toggle does not a bigger map make.

[LadyBri]

Hehe, so many Empire Strikes Back references...I described DA2 this exact same way to my friend the other day with DA:O being Star Wars. Long, building-to-epic beginning, intro to the world, then all of a sudden you're in Empire, your hand gets cut off, your nemesis is your father, the rebels seem to be effed...and fade to black!

I loved DA:O, but I also love DA:2. Is either game perfect? Of course not, but they fit together well and are amazing games with some of the best characters and best stories ever!

[Lithuasil]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
The Warden couldn't "leg it" with a blight to stop. And I don't get why everyone complains about Fereldan's palate.You at least had some different scenery there. The Free Marches seems way browner too me considering you have only a few small maps to explore whereas Ferelden had several. A night/day toggle does not a bigger map make.

Joining the grey wardens during a blight is the second stupidest thing you can do in thedas, right after submitting to the qun. However the warden manages to top that, by taking on a retardedly suicidal quest, for virtually no reason at all. With all my ties in these lands sewered, I have absolutely no incentive other then to save my own hide, and let the grey wardens from other countries deal with it (after all, getting literally forced to join at knife point, what obligation do I have towards the order?) Hawke has reasons to stay in Kirkwall - the warden had none to stay in ferelden, and countless to leg it.

But of course, the gameworld could have been bigger, though I much preffered giving us a large picture of kirkwall, to giving us small patches of several parts of the world.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Lithuasil wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...
The Warden couldn't "leg it" with a blight to stop. And I don't get why everyone complains about Fereldan's palate.You at least had some different scenery there. The Free Marches seems way browner too me considering you have only a few small maps to explore whereas Ferelden had several. A night/day toggle does not a bigger map make.

Joining the grey wardens during a blight is the second stupidest thing you can do in thedas, right after submitting to the qun. However the warden manages to top that, by taking on a retardedly suicidal quest, for virtually no reason at all. With all my ties in these lands sewered, I have absolutely no incentive other then to save my own hide, and let the grey wardens from other countries deal with it (after all, getting literally forced to join at knife point, what obligation do I have towards the order?) Hawke has reasons to stay in Kirkwall - the warden had none to stay in ferelden, and countless to leg it.

But of course, the gameworld could have been bigger, though I much preffered giving us a large picture of kirkwall, to giving us small patches of several parts of the world.

Hawke has no reasons to stay in Kirkwall if your family meets the Maker. Seriously I could have walked out anytime after that. The Warden is conscripted for various reasons most of them because life gave you little other option and sure you could take off but it's a life sentence. And I'd say the fate of Thedas is a pretty compelling reason to make sure the blight is stopped.

[Foolsfolly]

Hawke has no reasons to stay in Kirkwall if your family meets the Maker.

Which is why one of the biggest missed opprotunties in the game is that Hawke doesn't become the Viscount after defeating the Qunari.

I know our 'reward' is a title that means apparently nothing, but being Viscount would keep a duty bound, mercenary, politically motivated, or generally selfish Hawke in the city. They could use the office of the Viscount to help themselves or others. And it would lend more weight to Hawke's say in the Mage/Templar argument.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Hawke has no reasons to stay in Kirkwall if your family meets the Maker.

Which is why one of the biggest missed opprotunties in the game is that Hawke doesn't become the Viscount after defeating the Qunari.

I know our 'reward' is a title that means apparently nothing, but being Viscount would keep a duty bound, mercenary, politically motivated, or generally selfish Hawke in the city. They could use the office of the Viscount to help themselves or others. And it would lend more weight to Hawke's say in the Mage/Templar argument.

Yeah, the title means bugger all because no one listens to you anyway. You have a title but it holds not weight. You continue on as you did from Act II. The mind boggles.

[UnstableMongoose]

I also really loved DA2. I certainly didn't find it superior to KOTOR or DA:O, but that first one might just be because I'm an irredeemable Star Wars fan.

I thought its flaws, mostly in setting, were noticeable, but the depth of the game in other areas more than made up for it.

[Capt. Kirrahe]

I disagree with a lot of the decisions made by the developers this time around, and overall many aspects of the game feel rushed and thoughtless. That said, the story is absolutely brilliant, especially in the larger context of further installments.

DA2 leaves a lot of room for improvement, but the inner soul of the game is excellent. I enjoy playing it and will enjoy replaying it regardless of the faults mentioned.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Wasn't as good as origins, but it was a fun game.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Not directed at the previous poster: Haters gotta hate.

I've been playing RPGs since oh, 1979. Games that get way too detailed get to my ADD, and I will fall asleep. I deal with enough minutae during the day. When I sit down and play a game I like to relax and just get into the story.

I'm assuming this is going to be a three part series. IMO the second installment in these that suffers from the "middle child syndrome," meaning that they are a bridge story that will have a lot of bearing on the third, but no so much as the first, yet absolutely necessary for continuity.

Now that the blights have vanished, at least according to the Architect, unless you didn't choose that outcome, DA:3 I would guess have to do with a Qunari invasion of Ferelden or maybe Orlais since that is the one area we've heard a lot about but have never seen. And it will be the Ferelden people who are called upon for assistance. Since this will be after the blight and given how much shortened the lives of Wardens are, and the infertility (but maybe there's luck involved). So I'm thinking either Alister's child, or The Warden's child, or Morrigan's child who ends up uniting Kirkwall, Ferelden, and the Orlesians to defeat the Qunari. That is my guess. I mean we only have 7 plot archetypes from which to work, and we know it's not going to be a comedy.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 25 mars 2011 - 05:14 .

[Legbiter]

It was pretty good aye.

[Darth Obvious]

Lithuasil wrote...

It's by far the best bioware game to date

Oh yeah, the horribly repetitive combat "waves", the ridiculously reused caverns/dungeons/etc., the sophomoric plot...

It's about as good as s--- on a stick.

[Fault Girl]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

I don't know how the people praising this game can function in normal society, I guess you really can get alot accomplished with very few brain cells.

With comments like 9 for story depth, DA2 was fantastic etc, the franchise might as well be dead, they are pandering to the lower IQ crowd, and even most of them aren't buying the game now either.

It's like there is an army of Mikey Laidlaws on these forums saying ZOMG!!!!!! I did something awesome with 1 button, this game is so epic, did you see that!!!!!

Just because our opinion isn't your own does not make us any dumber than you, thank you very much.

Seriously why do people treat their own opinions as fact all the time.

We shall bow down to you in your awesomeness for making us see the light.

If you are disgruntled and disappointed with the game fair enough that is your issue, don't come down on others who enjoyed it.

I love DA:O, but I also love DA2, the world may crumble at such a thought.

[Lithuasil]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Hawke has no reasons to stay in Kirkwall if your family meets the Maker. Seriously I could have walked out anytime after that. The Warden is conscripted for various reasons most of them because life gave you little other option and sure you could take off but it's a life sentence. And I'd say the fate of Thedas is a pretty compelling reason to make sure the blight is stopped.

Even *if* all your family does that - at this point what reason is there, to leave all accumulated wealth, status and social contact behind, to just go *somewhere*?
And how is joining the wardens a life sentence? It's not like you can tell from the outside, it's not like everyone thinks 'they all died in Ostagar', and thedas isn't whats on the line, with plenty of grey wardens at the ferelden border. What's on the line is a country that just betrayed me, and that I have no whatsoever ties to.

[L33TDAWG]

Lithuasil wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Hawke has no reasons to stay in Kirkwall if your family meets the Maker. Seriously I could have walked out anytime after that. The Warden is conscripted for various reasons most of them because life gave you little other option and sure you could take off but it's a life sentence. And I'd say the fate of Thedas is a pretty compelling reason to make sure the blight is stopped.

Even *if* all your family does that - at this point what reason is there, to leave all accumulated wealth, status and social contact behind, to just go *somewhere*?
And how is joining the wardens a life sentence? It's not like you can tell from the outside, it's not like everyone thinks 'they all died in Ostagar', and thedas isn't whats on the line, with plenty of grey wardens at the ferelden border. What's on the line is a country that just betrayed me, and that I have no whatsoever ties to.

Any Origin you choose has a tie to Fereldan: Dalish elves would have to move, but the blight spreads fast; city elves live in Denerim; dwarves would get attacked from top and bottom, also they were cast out of Orzammar; humans are either nobles in Fereldan or at a tower smack down in the middle of Fereldan. Also, your family could have left to go anywhere else if they wanted to since at the very beginning of the game, you didn't have any reason to stay aside from "your poor mom" not wanting to take anymore moving around. The country didn't betray the Wardens, Loghain did. Loghain betrayed the country by leaving the king to die. Also, if you did leave, the blight might have taken 10 or more years to put down if you look at previous blights.

[Foolsfolly]

I'm assuming this is going to be a three part series.

No one's ever said it's a three parter. Which is one of the reasons why a definitive end with a hook for another game would have been nice. There's no guarantee we'll get a continuation.

I hope we do.

Have no idea how you could do a Mage/Templar fight game though. Sounds difficult to pull off without having the same Mage Hawke problem of no one ever noticing that by default you're on one side.

But, hell, there's enough Orlais name drops that maybe the Mage/Templar thing will be a small thing and the possible civil war and invasion of Ferelden will be the main plot.

[Lithuasil]

L33TDAWG wrote...
Any Origin you choose has a tie to Fereldan: Dalish elves would have to move, but the blight spreads fast; city elves live in Denerim; dwarves would get attacked from top and bottom, also they were cast out of Orzammar; humans are either nobles in Fereldan or at a tower smack down in the middle of Fereldan. Also, your family could have left to go anywhere else if they wanted to since at the very beginning of the game, you didn't have any reason to stay aside from "your poor mom" not wanting to take anymore moving around. The country didn't betray the Wardens, Loghain did. Loghain betrayed the country by leaving the king to die. Also, if you did leave, the blight might have taken 10 or more years to put down if you look at previous blights.

The very purpose of the origin stories was to sewer all those ties. What I'm getting at, whether one can bring him or herself to play suicidal heroic retard or not -  
The Warden apparently has the resources to travel around the country for a whole year, and isn't limited by law or borders. The Game only allows me to visit a few narrow spaces of land, that are essential for the plot I'm being railroaded on. That's bad railroading, because it presents me with reason and opportunity to do something, but doesn't let me.
The hawkes arrive at the only place where they still have relatives, and the remote chance of finding shelter as refugees, having used their very last coin to get here. The hawkes have neither incentive nor opportunity to leave. And in that case, not letting me visit anything outside a days walking distance, is still railroading, but railroading I'm ok with - because there's a comprehensible reason for it.