55 réponses à ce sujet

[Guurzak]

"what" can only be answered once we've established a context of "why". It's possible to win the game with any character build; the build you choose should be determined by what kind of gameplay experience you want.



Would you enjoy playing an archer bard? Would you enjoy playing a melee duelist? Are you going to be the only rogue in the party, or are you going to tagteam with either Leliana or Zevran? Or maybe a 3-rogue party? Does leaving locked chests behind bother you even if you "know" it's probably just another elfroot in there?



What do you like?

[Archfiend]

answer for 1-7=

depends on the playstyle you want.

[FrostyThundertrod]

Lemonio wrote...

how should i build a rogue?
1. which origin / race should i choose?
2. what attributes should i concentrate on?
3. what skills should i concetrate on? should i get stuff like stealing and lockpicking? or should i concentrate on combat?
4. what talents should i concentrate on? shield? two handed? other? again, should i do only combat? is stealth worth it? what do you think of lethality?
5. what kind of armor and weapons should i use? light armor? no armor? duel wield? daggers? swords? what are good daggers to use?
6. which party members should i use?
7. tips in terms of playstyle? 

1. any but mage

2. DEX, INT, some STR.

3. persuasion, trapmaking, combattarining. you wont have the skill ponits for steelling so pawen it off on a NPC trurn allistar in to a tief just for the hell of it.

4.  Lock picking duel wielding,

5. any medum armer heavy armer draws to much aggresion, if you have the DEX hot fix use daggers if not longswords.
dagger and shild is viable but you get very few attacks, duel wielding gives you more to do in combat.

6. Wynne, any two fighters

7. not really

[Guurzak]

So far it sounds like your primary interest is melee. In that case, why rogue at all? If you want a pure melee class a warrior is better. Which of the rogue's specific abilities are leading you to choose a rogue over a fighter?

[Cyric133]

1. Human noble



2. STR get it to 20 for armor. Cunning around 30 is good (unless you want to be an epic lockpicker). Dex the rest of your points.



3. For talents, get the combat line first. Then it's up to you. Decide if you want to pickpocket, create poisons, traps, potions...



4. Skills should be dual weapon fighting (top line) and bottom line through momentum (really fast backstabs). I like stealth a lot. I would max this line. Get the top 2 rogue lines through the 3rd skill (feign death is useless with max stealth) Evasion is ok if you want it. Lockpicking I took one level at the start then used Leliana as my lockpicker. So that depends on who you want in your group.



5. I liked light armor, get Wade's best drakescale for negative fatigue. I used daggers even with the bug. Dragonbone crow daggers are your friends. With high dex you can do some good dmg with a good bow, pick off a few mobs then stealth in for close range, I found this to be fun.



6. I liked Morrigan with Entropy spells. Maxed out Hex and disorient line and other root spells. Once all the mobs are rooted, you can run around and backstab like a fiend. Not to mention the hilarity of mobs fighting each other! Then whoever you want, Alistair for knocking mobs on their arse, Wynne if you need extra healing (I didn't use her), Leliana for buffs (plus captivating song to root multiple enemies).



7. Get paralyze runes! Plus, use poisons that root (deathroot extract....) and don't forget about the usefulness of a bow.



I had the most fun rooting as many enemies as possible then backstabbing each one to death. Use stealth to get in (and out of) combat. Use items that decrease hostility. You want to backstab as much as possible without being noticed.

[javierabegazo]

Guurzak wrote...

So far it sounds like your primary interest is melee. In that case, why rogue at all? If you want a pure melee class a warrior is better. Which of the rogue's specific abilities are leading you to choose a rogue over a fighter?

After you've got stealth and duelwielding maxed out, the rogue is really fun to play, he can dish out a ton of damage, and while your team is handling the crowd, You go stealth and backstab the mage/hurlock emissary to hell and back. In terms of fun, I think Rogue is the best. PLaying as a mage, on the console is only but so much fun, Too much pausing the game to select spells, and well, honestly the mage isn't so visually appealing. Seeing my rogue do a Reposte, followed by Duel Weapon Sweep and then Flurry just looks really cool, much better than sitting back, and wiping the butts of your tanks up front with healing spells and doing crowd control.

[javierabegazo]

Add buffs to your rogue like Haste, Fast Striking, and all the passive bonuses that come with Duel wielding and you're a ninja, striking fast and hard and near impossible to hit

[javierabegazo]

If there was such a thing as "arcane Rogue" I would be all over that class But there's not, and I'm more than willing to let Morrigan be the mage

[jones0901]

you can be a archer and a dual wield...in my rogue i am 22 or 3 and i have all dual wields, the bottom two rows of archery and up to evasion in theif tree plus 1 lock pick and one stealth....this is really useful because when a battle starts you can use your tank and pull away a single bad guy to focus on for yourself...so you pull a yellow or orange, use your stuns and smoke him, since your not getting much damage, your healer can focus on the tank then when you get the main group of baddies, you can stun and backstab for your tanks...i would recommend getting the lockpicks, even at the expense of the shatter shot line of archery though...and pump strenght only up to your end game weapon then use cunning strength and willpower/con

[javierabegazo]

If you carry Leliana along too, like Cyric said, then you specialize as an Assassing and a Duelist, and you'll be a monster in battle

[Wissenschaft]

Duelist Rogues are great in melee, backstabs do a ton of damage. Forget mages, my Duelist kills the majority of enemies. I just need other party members for Crowd Control.

[vyvexthorne]

I have a duelist/assassin rogue.. and she just hands out the damage... I didn't really plan her out or anything.. I just kind of picked what I liked along the way.

[DirewolfX]

It's difficult to answer your questions properly in the order you presented them, so I'll just try to give you some advice:

Race/Origin does not matter mechanically in the long run.  Pick what you want for flavor and story.  If you absolutely must min/max, humans get the best attribute bonuses, but the 10% spell resistance for dwarves might save your life.

For skills, you will probably want to max Coercion early so you have the most options for dialog choices.  You will also want to max the Combat Training line, since it opens up your weapon skills and gives you nice stat bonuses at levels 2 and 4.  If you like to switch to other characters, Combat Tactics lets you set up better AI for your main character.  Beyond that, it's really up to you--they don't make a huge difference.

Rogues only get access to dual wield and bow skills, so two-handed weapons and sword and shield talents are out--roll a warrior if you want to use these.  Since you don't want to go bows, I'll discuss your options for dual wielding.  There are two primary dual wield styles, a high strength build that uses the final passive dual wield talent to use swords, maces and axes in each hand and a high cunning build that uses the Lethality talent to increase their damage with daggers.  Both builds also rely on high dexterity.  You will need at least 36 dexterity for your dual wield talents and 20 strength to equip the best light armor (keep in mind you'll get a few permanent 'bonus' points of each from one of the quests).

The strength build will tend to do more average combat damage when going toe to toe while the cunning build will be more effective with their other rogue talents (and potentially do more damage while backstabbing).

For talents, you'll want to get the following:

Dirty Fighting Line:
Dirty Fighting - you're forced to get this, but good thing it's a nice long stun, so you'll use it often.
Combat Movement - any time you're behind an enemy, you get a backstab, which is like an automatic crit.  This makes it easier to get those, and so you'll want to get this early.
Coup de Grace - this lets you automatically backstab stunned or paralyzed foes, even if you can't get behind them--great ability.
Feign Death - I haven't bothered with this yet.  My tank characters can usually hold aggro for me.

Below the Belt Line:
Below the Belt - eh, it's okay.  If you're doing the strength build, you can probably skip this line.
Deadly Strike - useful against high armor foes, but otherwise mediocre.  It has a long wind up.
Lethality - This is a key talent for a cunning build.  You should plan to have 23 dexterity to get this ASAP at level 8.
Evasion - Defensive talent.  You probably shouldn't need this (your tank can hold aggro), but it's not a bad ability if you have a spare talent point.

Stealth/Device lines:
Depends on your playstyle.  I haven't tried out stealth builds yet.  If you have another rogue in your party, you can rely on them for traps and lock picking, otherwise, you may want to spend a talent or two here.  The cunning build can get away with fewer talents spent here, since their high cunning makes up for the lack of talent points.

Dual-Weapon Training line:
Build this up as soon as you can, since it gives you nice passive bonuses to all your dual wielding.  Strength builds should aim to hit 36 dexterity by level 12 so they can unlock the last talent ASAP, enabling them to wield a second sword, mace or axe in their offhand instead of a dagger.  Even cunning builds will want the last talent for the half stamina cost benefit on their dual wield abilities.

Dual Striking Line:
You'll want to max this out eventually, since it's full of nice active abilities.  I don't use the first talent as a rogue, but Riposte's stun and Punisher's knockdown are invaluable tools.

Dual Weapon Sweep Line:
This line doesn't have the nice disables of the other line, but you'll still want to max it out, so you can clean up groups quickly with the aoe from Dual Weapon Sweep and Whirlwind.  Flurry and Dual Weapon Sweep also do great single target damage (and actually, I think Dual Weapon Sweep can't miss).

Specializations:
If you want to go for pure damage, take Assassin and Duelist.  Assassin will boost your backstab damage (you should be backstabbing a lot as a rogue) and Duelist will boost your overall damage.  Bard is more of a group support specialization, but is still very solid.  Ranger is harder to quantify... it's a combination of support and damage, since it summons allies.

Assassin Line: (you also get +2 dex and 2.5% extra crit chance from this specialization)
Mark of Death - great for bosses, since it boosts your entire party's damage against them.
Exploit Weakness - If you're doing a cunning build, this will be a huge boost to your backstab damage.
Lacerate - More backstab bonus damage
Feast of the Fallen - More of a support skill... if you're having trouble with stamina and already have maxed out the dual wield line, you could consider this.

Duelist Line: (the gem here is the +1 damage and +2 dexterity you get from the specialization)
Dueling - bonus attack.  I don't have any trouble with attack, though.
Upset Balance - defense debuff.  You have a few of these already though.
Keen Defense - defense buff... but you should have a tank handling this
Pinpoint Strike - the nice talent that makes the duelist line worth picking up.  A bunch of free crits; good for counteracting Hex of Misdirection.

Bard Line: (2 willpower, 1 cunning bonus)
Basically a support line.  You can choose either mana/stamina regeneration (great for mages), attack/damage/crit (great for melee/archers) or constant aoe stun (strong, but you can't do anything else).

Ranger Line : (1 con, 5 nature resist bonus)
I haven't tried this out past the first summon, but they use a lot of stamina for upkeep.  Not sure if you can have more than one, but so far they're pretty useful (the wolf can overwhelm and disable a foe).  Unfortunately, I'm on 360, so I can't control my wolf directly.  This seems more useful on a bow rogue, since they don't get as much of a benefit from Duelist or Assassin.

For party members, Wynne, a tank and one other of your choice.  Any warrior can be a tank, but Alistair and Shale are best at it.

Hopefully that answers your question well enough.

[FrostyThundertrod]

Lemonio wrote...

can someone explain why i want to use cunning?
is it necessary for the good rogue skills?
i thought they were mostly determined by dex

otherwise thanks for the suggestions
a duel wield stealth rogue sounds fun
though i'm wondering about weapons
i hardly ever see good daggers
is it possible to duel wield with swords?

Most rogue skills are cunning based, Pluss cunning adds to your armer pentration.
every charter even the dumb tank should have at least some cunning.

[Cyric133]

Yeah I think that the STR rogue is a dual wielding warrior in disguise as well. Cunning adds to damage with lethality, as mentioned, plus a bunch of other skills and talents. If you want to use the good longswords you need to sacrifice points that could go into dex to pump your STR to use them, that's why I stuck with the daggers.

Modifié par Cyric133, 17 novembre 2009 - 11:24 .

[DirewolfX]

Okay, here's a biased opinion: Go with the cunning build. There's a hidden speed bonus on daggers that makes them a little more than 20% faster than longswords (which are in turn about 5% faster than maces and axes) which more than makes up for the reduced stat scaling (85% vs 100%). You will also get a slight armor penetration boost and a backstab bonus with Assassin from cunning. Daggers also have double the armor penetration of swords to begin with and about 50% higher crit chance. This will offset the lower base damage significantly against high armor foes (and most dangerous foes are high armor, except mages, which go down quickly if you manage to close the distance anyway).



Runes are your friends. Paralyze runes are great for disabling foes and getting free backstabs with Coup de Grace. Elemental damage runes are also great because you hit more frequently. Flaming or Frost weapon buffs from your party mages also boost damage significantly.



The best rogue gear is mostly in Orzammar. The Rose's Thorn for 150g from a vendor there is the best weapon. Thorn of the Dead Gods is probably second best weapon and is found as treasure there. Both give +3 damage (among other benefits), which affects both hands damage, so +6 damage total to each hand. A vendor there also sells the Dragonskin armor "Shadow of the Empire" and you will get the Dragonskin armor drop "Pushback Strikers" which are good rogue gear. Alternatively, get Wade's Superior Drakeskin set for the reduced stamina costs and bonus dex (I think the reduced stamina cost is better for an archer though, since their abilities cost much more than dual wield abilities, and you're more likely to pick a specialization with good sustained abilities, like Bard or Ranger with an archer).

[Aggular]

Looking to make an Archer Rogue who can stealth, set traps. Would like to have Coercion and bit in Survival. Same questions from above.



Wondering if Combat Training is useful for Archer?