55 réponses à ce sujet

[veryalien]

Yes it is. That's why once the dex bug is fixed I'm going dual wield warrior with high str and just enough dex to get the talents.



BTW, is it possible to dual wield longswords? I thought offhand had to be dagger.

[Grumblesnort]

with passive Coup de Grace, you get auto crit/backstab on any stunned opponents, so you can usually jack a baddie with dirty fighting and riposte while your amored tank is drawing most of the aggro

[DirewolfX]

Answers to questions:



Yes, Combat Training as an archer is necessary. It unlocks access to the Archery skills (you need Tier 2 Combat Training for Tier 2 Archery skills, etc). Also, at tier 2 it gives you a bonus to stamina regeneration.



If your tank is doing their job properly, the mobs won't turn around. If they do turn around, you can just stun them using Dirty Fighting or Riposte and get backstabs with Coup de Grace anyway. If you're attacking a target that isn't being tanked, it isn't worth trying to run around them. Mages will usually die before Dirty Fighting runs out (if not, use Riposte or Flurry to finish them off). Archers are a bit tougher (and they usually either hit you with Dirty Fighting or Pinning Shot and run away), but they're also not nearly as dangerous. Just be careful not to chase archers into the next pack of enemies, or you could get overwhelmed.



It's possible to dual wield longswords, but you need to get the final talent in the top dual wield line (the passive line). That allows you to use longswords, maces and axes in your offhand (and reduces the stamina cost of all dual wield talents by half).

[Jaucinet]

I just finished first playthrough with a cunning rogue. Great fun, and no problem soloing ogres by the end. Don't worry about backstabbing being finicky, it's not.

[Cyric133]

1st and I like 3rd up to momentum (use it while backstabbing and you will see why I like it). The second line is useful in certain circumstances (mostly when enemies are focusing on you). Lockpicking if you do not want to take a lockpick party member with you. I prefer to use those slots for combat and leave the picking to Leliana.

[veryalien]

Jaucinet wrote...

I just finished first playthrough with a cunning rogue. Great fun, and no problem soloing ogres by the end. Don't worry about backstabbing being finicky, it's not.

Interesting click on my 360 profile and click on "Arwa" or "Alysha." Ignore the others. They're non starter characters I can't delete.

Both of these characters are board and sword warriors (not 2h or dual wield) and both dealt higher damage (over 80) than your rogue. This is either because of the dexterity bug or because rogues are under powered

EDIT: And wow, both characters ended at level 21 unlike your level 24 and I still did more damage overall with higher damage dealt at a time. Something is seriously wrong with cunning rogues.

Modifié par veryalien, 18 novembre 2009 - 02:18 .

[Cyric133]

veryalien wrote...

Jaucinet wrote...

I just finished first playthrough with a cunning rogue. Great fun, and no problem soloing ogres by the end. Don't worry about backstabbing being finicky, it's not.

Interesting click on my 360 profile and click on "Arwa" or "Alysha." Ignore the others. They're non starter characters I can't delete.

Both of these characters are board and sword warriors (not 2h or dual wield) and both dealt higher damage (over 80) than your rogue. This is either because of the dexterity bug or because rogues are under powered

EDIT: And wow, both characters ended at level 21 unlike your level 24 and I still did more damage overall with higher damage dealt at a time. Something is seriously wrong with cunning rogues.

Wow zing!? Your one time max damage is besides the point. In the time it takes you to achieve one hit, a backstab rogue with momentum going has already connected a few times. At level 16 my max damage is 80 and in three backstabs I will do 30-50 each on average, so that's 90-150 in the time you take one swing. How high was your attack at level 16? With high dex my attack is around 115, I do not miss very often. Plus the 360 version is easier.

To the OP, do not be dissuaded from playing a backstab rogue, it is a lot of fun if built correctly. 

[Ninjaphrog]

Lemonio wrote...

how should i build a rogue?
1. which origin / race should i choose?
2. what attributes should i concentrate on?
3. what skills should i concetrate on? should i get stuff like stealing and lockpicking? or should i concentrate on combat?
4. what talents should i concentrate on? shield? two handed? other? again, should i do only combat? is stealth worth it? what do you think of lethality?
5. what kind of armor and weapons should i use? light armor? no armor? duel wield? daggers? swords? what are good daggers to use?
6. which party members should i use?
7. tips in terms of playstyle? 

1. City or Dalish Elf
2. Dexterity Primary, Cunning Secondary
3. I'd say go combat...you always have Lelianna to take care of the boring stuff like picking locks...ignore stealth all together...pointless talent point waste...
4.Ignore everything...concentrate on Duel wielding abilities and rogue abilities(Except stealth and lock picking)...No, stealth is worthless, Lethality is usefull to a point. There're deffinately better choices.
5. Light armor if you have high defense, medium armor if you have more damage(This requires to mix Dex with Str). Duel wielding is almost essential to rogues...you do too little damage one handed. After achieving Duel wielding master, keep daggers untill you find better swords(NEVER USE MAIN HAND SWORD OFF HAND DAGGER, use both hands dagger). Make sure the better swords have rune sockets...socketed daggers are always better then runeless swords.
6. Shale, Wynne, Lelianna.
7. Avoid frontal assaults...Backstabs are your friend...if frontal attack is eminent, turn on duel wield striking(Striking with both weapons at once)for bonus to damage. Dirty Fighting is fair, use it when things go dire. Shale is not made of stone for no reason, make sure he is always in Stoneheart mode, and use roar and threaten and other agro boosts frequently to minimize the chance of you getting pummeled. YOU are squishy...make sure you count the hairs on your enemies back, not on their stubble.

[Ninjaphrog]

Lemonio wrote...

in that case...which of the duel wield trees are more important
1st and....2nd or 3rd?
and lockpicking yes?

From the top..

1st row: Very important
2nd row: Moderately important
3rd row: Mildly important.

Opinions might differ...you might preffer it the other way around.

[Cyric133]

...run away, heal, quaff a pot, pickpocket, set a trap, order a pizza... When you max the skill nothing I have encountered yet has been able to detect me.

[veryalien]

Lemonio wrote...

how do you know how much damage both deal?
highest damage doesn't mean much because of random crits...right?
and plus...my mage totally destroys all that
mana clash 200+ everytime
no mage has survived it so far xD


and what's the "dex bug"

I'm not trying to ****** you off at all or be adversial but if you look at both character pages my level 21 sword and board warrior dealt more damage OVERALL than your level 24 rogue. Period. Look at the numbers. It's something like 25% difference. It's pretty big.

I don't want to start a flame war so either people will read the pages and respond or give out ancedotal evidence that is worthless.

Feel free to post a profile that has overall damage higher than my warrior as a rogue. I'm happy to see it.

The "dex bug" is when your dexteriy currently under all builds of DO:A for all platforms does not increase your damage. This is for EVERYONE.

EDIT: sorry, i should have said Jaucinet's rogue. Look follow his profile and look at his rogue. Follow my profile and looka t my warrior "Arwa" or "Alysha" both did more damage than him with more damage in one hit. It's VERY CLEAR.

This is a problem in DO:A..

Modifié par veryalien, 18 novembre 2009 - 07:34 .

[veryalien]

Wow zing!? Your one time max damage is besides the point. In the time it takes you to achieve one hit, a backstab rogue with momentum going has already connected a few times. At level 16 my max damage is 80 and in three backstabs I will do 30-50 each on average, so that's 90-150 in the time you take one swing. How high was your attack at level 16? With high dex my attack is around 115, I do not miss very often. Plus the 360 version is easier.

To the OP, do not be dissuaded from playing a backstab rogue, it is a lot of fun if built correctly. 

No actually my max damage per hit and my overall damage is higher than his and I'm THREE LEVELS UNDER HIM. It's too bad you're taking this personally but when a tank with a shield does more damage than a rogue there is an issue with the game. Again, look at both profiles and check both my warriors "Arwa" and "Alysha" the numbers clearly speak for themselves.

I'm happy to see what Bioware devs think. Working as intended?

Modifié par veryalien, 18 novembre 2009 - 07:40 .

[Sharog]

a proper build backstabbing rogue matches the dmg out put of a dw zerker/reaver war. hardly bad at all. just cuz some schmuck suck doesnt mean the class is underpowered. since a rogue offer alot other utility to a group, it is always good to have. although archery did suck for a long time.

[veryalien]

Lemonio that's fine but a rogue DPS is considerably lower than a board and sword warrior? That's not right. I'm going to assume this is because of the dexterity bug for now.



*sigh* I really hoped people would discuss this rationally instead of get insecure about it. Clearly rogues are gimped right now.

[Cyric133]

Don't worry I do not take forum posts personally, plus you are calling out poor Jaucinet . But your math and logic are a bit off (IMO). One hit means nothing. Let's say you miss 10 times then hit on the 11th and do 85 damage. That makes the warrior superior to any other class that hit 10 of 11 attempts, each doing 30 damage? I believe that the best way to compare, is damage per unit time, not a single damage output once in the length of the game. Overall damage doesn't tell the whole truth either, because all one would have to do to skew the numbers in your character's favor would be to limit the damage your companions do and make sure your PC gets all the damage. Yeah true, the posts here about damage are anecdotal (not worthless), but your numbers are not "VERY CLEAR" either.

So what type of build are you going to try Lemonio?

Modifié par Cyric133, 18 novembre 2009 - 10:52 .

[Cyric133]

Again that comes down to party choice.



Oh and don't forget, if you take pickpocketing and stealth you gain access to some more (lucrative) side quests.

[veryalien]

Cyric133 wrote...

Don't worry I do not take forum posts personally, plus you are calling out poor Jaucinet . But your math and logic are a bit off (IMO). One hit means nothing. Let's say you miss 10 times then hit on the 11th and do 85 damage. That makes the warrior superior to any other class that hit 10 of 11 attempts, each doing 30 damage?

My overall damage (that's all damage done) is 25% higher than the gentleman's rogue and I'm three levels lower. It is pretty clear. Maybe you should pay attention to the numbers.

[Cyric133]

veryalien wrote...

Cyric133 wrote...

Don't worry I do not take forum posts personally, plus you are calling out poor Jaucinet . But your math and logic are a bit off (IMO). One hit means nothing. Let's say you miss 10 times then hit on the 11th and do 85 damage. That makes the warrior superior to any other class that hit 10 of 11 attempts, each doing 30 damage?

My overall damage (that's all damage done) is 25% higher than the gentleman's rogue and I'm three levels lower. It is pretty clear. Maybe you should pay attention to the numbers.

I think you quoted the wrong passage in your retort  

Did you mean the below quote:

"Overall damage doesn't tell the whole truth either, because all one would have to do to skew the numbers in your character's favor would be to limit the damage your companions do and make sure your PC gets all the damage."

And that is only one example of why the few stats the game records do not reflect damage per unit time appropriately, as would be the case to fairly compare builds.

Modifié par Cyric133, 19 novembre 2009 - 12:11 .