221 réponses à ce sujet

[TJSolo]

Yeah I figured but that is why I asked the question following your post and not the post full of(I should not say what it is full of).

[Rylor Tormtor]

Autolycus wrote...

NWN - Truly terrible storyline - Online persistant worlds have kept the game alive.

Now, this isn't entirely fair. The OC of NWN was fairly terrible, but I played the engine for years, and so did many, MANY people, never touching a persistent world. The custom content made by the mod community was FANTASTIC, and to this day are some of the best RPG experiences I had on a computer. In addition, I don't think you can lump SoU and HoU with the OC there, because they were awesome, for no other reason than....

DOOM DOOM DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, DOOMIE DOOM DOOM.

In fact, the one egregious slight I can never forgive Bioware for is my lack of Deekin icon. 

But this is all beside the point ;-) I just wanted to through in obligatory defense for community created content which I had hoped DAO would revive, but the difficulty of the tool set and the fast turn around cycle for a sequal kinda shot that in the foot. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Autolycus wrote...

NWN - Truly terrible storylinep

I can't agree with this.  I like the NWN OC, and you're discounting the highly respected explansions (SoU was developed by someone else, but HotU was all BioWare)

Mass Effect - Truly Stunning (but not their own engine, and now under EA ownership)

Mass Effect was developed and released prior to the EA acquisition.  That's why it was published by Microsoft, not EA.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Oh, and BG was developed by BioWare. The game was basically done before they went to sell it to Interplay, and only then (when Interplay asked them to convert it to a D&D game - it was originally a stand-alone IP called Battleground Infinity, hence the name of the engine) was Black Isle used to help with the converstion.

[Pwnsaur]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Your premise is flawed.  You don't get to decide how everyone plays.  I've never =been= the person in the story.  I've always guided them through their story.

My premise is flawed? Role playing games are valued for their ROLE PLAYING aspects. It has nothing to do with 'deciding how everyone plays,' it has to do with taking the PLAYER out of ROLE PLAYING. By not including the player in decisions that affect the PC it effectively removes an aspect of the role playing from the game. What is hard to understand about that?

Your entire argument is flawed as you intial premise is no good.  DA2 offered plenty of RPG nomnomnom.

No, it's quite simple and obvious. Please try not to completely miss my point next time and you may understand a tad better. Also irrelevent to my point is how much 'RPG nomnomnom' you deem as 'plenty.' Your subjective opinion does not have anything to do with the fact that removing role playing aspects from a role playing game is counterintuitive to the concept of Role Playing Games. 

The dinosaurs expressed outrage.  They cried too.  They pointed their blunt, dim eyed faces at the sky and said "mmmwuuuuurgh!"  And then they went extinct.  Happily, all is still well in the world.  And those of use who like a great story and a fun game will continue to enjoy those things from BioWare.

We'll visit the old bones on occassion though, just to see how far we've come.

I'm 26. Because of me and many other like me, BioWare has a consumer base from which to operate a successful business. Your 'dinosaurs' analogy is not only moronically childish, but missing the point entirely. Placing the future of your company in the hands of the fickle casual consumer is a definite formula to become obsolete. When the next big thing arrives and your base has deserted you after being alienated and disappointed too many times, it's generally too late to repent.

Think about it your post.  Did BioWare buy EA?  No.  Why?  BioWare couldn't afford it.  EA bought BioWare.  Why?  EA had the money.  Who was more successful as a company?  EA.  Why?  They developed games that gave them big audiences mean big money meaning buy more studios.  DA2 and the games that follow are going to appeal to a bigger market.  Same great story, same great game, less boring mechanics to shackle the game to a niche.

God... You are so nearsighted and intolerant.

Only because it has continues to change and appeal to larger and larger markets.

Supply and demand is a funny thing, my friend. When an entire genre of games is created by the demand of thousands and thousands of gamers, their may be a market there. If BioWare decides to dilute the market with rushed, half-finished, bug-filled games that have no clear target demographic and lack the clarity of a defined identity; Their good reputation will dry up faster than you can say Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. Business is a marathon, not a sprint.  

Greed has always won, greed is winning now, and greed will always win in the future.  That's how a free market works.  That's how life works.  ;)

Your economic world view is incredibly cynical... There may truly be no hope for product integrity when shills like you are willing to be exploited by the corporate thieves who will do the least amount of work possible to still turn a profit. I would hate to view the world through the eyes of someone like you... Awful...

Please enjoy this quote and try to learn something from it..

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice." -Albert Einstein 

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 25 mars 2011 - 06:52 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Pwnsaur wrote...

My premise is flawed?  Role playing games are valued for their ROLE PLAYING aspects. It has nothing to do with 'deciding how everyone plays,' it has to do with taking the PLAYER out of ROLE PLAYING. By not including the player in decisions that affect the PC it effectively removes an aspect of the role playing from the game. What is hard to understand about that?

Correct, you premise is flawed.  DA2 was a fine RPG where I guided Hawke through the events of his life in Kirkwall.  That invalidates the idea that the player becomes the person in the game.  It's no so.  Thus, all the arguments you build of that factoid are... invalid. 

Also irrelevent to my point is how much 'RPG nomnomnom' you deem as 'plenty.' Your subjective opinion does not have anything to do with the fact that removing role playing aspects from a role playing game is counterintuitive to the concept of Role Playing Games. 

DA2 has plenty of RPG nomnomnom.  Quantify a unit of nomnomnom and we'll both be able to discuss how much RPG nomnomnom the game contains.  Until then, "RPG" is subjective.  And from where I stand, the amount of nomnomnom it is plenty.

Your economic world view is incredibly cynical... There may truly be no hope for product integrity when shills like you are willing to be exploited by the corporate thieves who will do the least amount of work possible to still turn a profit. I would hate to view the world through the eyes of someone like you... Awful...

Greed has always won, greed is winning now, and greed
will always win in the future.   :D:D

I also bolded your ad hominem.  Ad hominem is a form of surrendering your point.  Very well sir, I accept your surrender.

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice." -Albert Einstein 

Allow me to respond with a quote from a far more important person than some chemist from the 1950s:

"Hop in my Chrysler, it's as big as a whale, and it's about to set sail!"  --  Mahatma Gandhi

[TJSolo]

Merced652 wrote...

I'd be careful in trying to engage rinpoche in any kind of real debate. Mainly because he has only ever asserted his opinion as fact and with little to no supporting evidence. I present to you his first above reply.

Modifié par TJSolo, 25 mars 2011 - 11:32 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

TJSolo wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

I'd be careful in trying to engage rinpoche in any kind of real debate. Mainly because he has only ever asserted his opinion as fact and with little to no supporting evidence. I present to you his first above reply.

<3<3<3

[TJSolo]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

I'd be careful in trying to engage rinpoche in any kind of real debate. Mainly because he has only ever asserted his opinion as fact and with little to no supporting evidence. I present to you his first above reply.

<3<3<3

That might be the most coherent thing you have posted in this entire thread.

[Robobot]

TJSolo wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

I'd be careful in trying to engage rinpoche in any kind of real debate. Mainly because he has only ever asserted his opinion as fact and with little to no supporting evidence. I present to you his first above reply.

<3<3<3

That might be the most coherent thing you have posted in this entire thread.

Ad hominem. you surrender, I accept. herp derp 

[TJSolo]

Robobot wrote...


Ad hominem. you surrender, I accept. herp derp 

I was unware this was some sort of battle. I was even more unaware that I was even engaging whoever you are in a battle until now.

[dujh]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Check this out on Kotaku.

That pretty much says it all.  DA2 (like ME2) was more focused more on the story side of an RPG than previous DAO/BG/NWN games.  Those games had great story, but loot and gear mechanics chewed away at the tasty part, inflating play times while players went through boring crap to get to the story.

DA2 did skimp a bit on the exploration, there's no way around that, and yeah Kirkwall could have felt more bustling and alive.  But in service of the story, it did a great job.

The trend of "more story, less numbers" is one that must continue.  There's just no reason to play Excel as a video game anymore.

i agree da2 had a better story than dao and me2 had a better stroy than me1

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I've refuted all counters offered. Now you're just trashing me. Have fun, kids. I've got beer to slay.

[Robobot]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I've refuted all counters offered. Now you're just trashing me. Have fun, kids. I've got beer to slay.

u so funny

[Pwnsaur]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I've refuted all counters offered. Now you're just trashing me. Have fun, kids. I've got beer to slay.

Hardly an Ad Hominem when you've revealed yourself to be a shill. Also, when it isn't used as a device to discredit your argument (of which you don't have). You are the kind of person who just needs to be ignored, and thus I shall.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Pwnsaur wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I've refuted all counters offered. Now you're just trashing me. Have fun, kids. I've got beer to slay.

Hardly an Ad Hominem when you've revealed yourself to be a shill. Also, when it isn't used as a device to discredit your argument (of which you don't have). You are the kind of person who just needs to be ignored, and thus I shall.

:lol:  

[Pwnsaur]

? WTF are you on about?

[Phaelducan]

These threads are amusing. Why people continue to argue the objective components of a game through subjective opinions of superiority/inferiority is beyond me.

You bought the game, in theory you finished the game.... why on earth can't people move on and play something else? Bioware isn't the only dev out there folks.

Oh, and DA:2 was a good game. /kicks ant-hill.

[Sylvius the Mad]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I've refuted all counters offered.

DA2's dialogue system doesn't allow the player anywhere near as much control over his character's behaviour as DAO did.

How's that?

[DTKT]

Phaelducan wrote...

These threads are amusing. Why people continue to argue the objective components of a game through subjective opinions of superiority/inferiority is beyond me.

You bought the game, in theory you finished the game.... why on earth can't people move on and play something else? Bioware isn't the only dev out there folks.

Oh, and DA:2 was a good game. /kicks ant-hill.

Why would anyone do that? Shouldn't you discuss your experience with a product and share your own perspective? Isnt that the exact purpose of a forum.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

DA2's dialogue system doesn't allow the player anywhere near as much control over his character's behaviour as DAO did.

How's that?

[/quote]

It's a trade off and an improvement.  Conversation in DAO took the talk on wild and spazmodic paths.  You could easily flirt with a character with no intention of doing so.  Mass Effect and DA2 refine the poor mechanics of the Dinosaur Games into something that gives the player less broad options, but gives the player a more control of where the character they are guiding does go.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Phaelducan wrote...

These threads are amusing. Why people continue to argue the objective components of a game through subjective opinions of superiority/inferiority is beyond me.

I get a ton of laughs from these threads.  ^_^  That's the main reason I participate.  I love to argue as well, so for me these forums are like free DLC.  It doesn't hurt that DA2 was a great game. 

Oh, and DA:2 was a good game. /kicks ant-hill.

HIGH FIVE!  

[lobi]

Successful Rinpoche is Successful

[KLUME777]

TJSolo wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

I don't see the removal of metagaming as beneficial to games in general.

I'm not sure you even know what you mean there.

The article was talking about the removal of combat numbers from RPGs - "Seeing your character represented as a giant stack of numbers - hit
points, damage points, mana points, etc - and then seeing his or her
actions represented by those numbers being moved around gave life to the
game.
Cold, abstract life, perhaps, but life nonetheless."

Those numbers would not be considered common knowledge for the character to have. Those are stats that aid the player in deciding how to play.

I don't even think you know what the article means seeing as that peice is talking about solely about combat and mentions nothing about how any RPG story benefits from less combat numbers.

Funny but i don't remember DAO being like that at all. And DAO has a far better plot than DA2.