269 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark83]

BlameBot wrote...

What about the annoyment involved in realizing Male or Female really is just an aesthetic choice in this game?

This line mildly offends me. I'm a straight male and by no means a feminist, but what exactly do you expect the difference to be?

If we ignore any possible equality subtext, and are just referring to exclusive romances, then Male/Female would just be a toggle between which set of companions you sleep with. The concept of exclusive access to content is clearly contrary to the design philosophy of DA2. This is also clearly related to the feedback not just from the slash fans who wanted man-Warden to bone Allistar, but also from the "Muaha! EVIL!" players who loudly whined that by being a jerk and refusing quests they (*gasp*) missed content.

So now, no matter what, you have nearly similiar access to almost all the content.

[Altima Darkspells]

I strongly dislike those "Straight Male Gamers" type. Not straight people, or males, but those bigoted, self-important jerk-faces.

Yes, you're the largest demographic. Yes, you make publishers want to get down and perform oral sex upon you in the hopes that you'll bless their product with their target demographic.

Can't even have flippin' female iconic characters that aren't sex wrapped in meat because everyone's too afraid of pushing them away.

But having the same romance number and options for everyone is so far from what's wrong in the game that it's ridiculous.

Sure, there are problems with how it was implemented. The reality warpage of Hawke's gender. The on-going stereotype that elves roll around with anyone, and so on. But having the same amount of content for all genders and orientations is such a fantastic step in the right direction that I can hardly believe it appeared in DA2, which seemed to have stepped in the wrong direction for near everything else.

This isn't BG2 anymore.

[Pious_Augustus]

I had a topic out like this when the game first came out I dont like the fact with Anders you have to go with him if you dont automatic approval loss.....

[ddevil459]

My favorite part is how he is all for catering to the minority...except of course for hardcore bioware fans, whom he would throw out in a heartbeat for a legion of casuals.

Maybe you guys should integrate microtransactions? Cannot enter kirkwall without entering paypal info?

[Khayness]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

This isn't BG2 anymore.

Sorry but.

What the **** does BG2 has to do with it?

This issue can't be related to the older BioWare games. The oldschool hatedom bandwagon left a long time ago.

[FellowerOfOdin]

orbit991 wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Zevhran was bisexual too? Ridiculous, anyone who believes that is on the wrong track. And to me, personally, any male who has sex with other males is ******-, not bisexual.

Maybe you should actually read up before you post.
Because though you imply others to be idiots, the only retard here is you.

He cant help it, probably was raised being beaten by a crucifix.

No, just a conservative man who wants the best for everyone and already accomplished making 2 other men hit on women again.

Modifié par FellowerOfOdin, 24 mars 2011 - 06:18 .

[Puzzlewell]

I stated this basically a few years back when Origins came out and I'll say it again:

Leliana basically feels like she was forcely written into being bisexual because male gamers would throw up their hands if they were blocked out of her relationship. Listen when she speaks about her past. The person that she loved with all her soul and that damaged her so badly? A woman. I know Sheryl probably had no intent of writing the character like this but just about everything she says shows that she has a preference for women. Yes it's completely possible to be bisexual yet have a preference but everything I gathered from doing her romance made it feel like she mostly only slept with men to get power in The Game (the Orlesian game that is ). Can a male Warden be the one to change that? Oh sure, just like my earlier point of a LadyHawke being the one to make Isabela feel love, but from what I've read she still comments on a male warden's hair an eyelashes and let's face it, those aren't things typically complimented by a woman that has a preference for men...

Modifié par CalamityRanger, 24 mars 2011 - 06:45 .

[Merced652]

G.A.BG2?

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

But having the same amount of content for all genders and orientations is such a fantastic step

to a pure fanservice market. Now if a writer would't see a pointy-eared gay scoundrel in his plot because his idea just don't fit with it, he will always get his a** handed to him by all kinds of ruthless fanboys/fangirls.
Cause people demand dating seems and 3D dolls perform before them all those dirty things!
They think that sexuality can be handled out just like a label. They deserve to be punished for bad writing and trying to appeal to masses.

Leliana basically feels like she was forcely written into being bisexual
because male gamers would throw up their hands if they were blocked out
of her relationship

I don't believe devs had that way of thinking in DA:O, but I think that's the issue with DA2 romances.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 24 mars 2011 - 06:30 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

Again, many others already suggested it: why not have a simple option at start that lets you choose whether you want homosexual content in your game or not, similar to stuff like "Increased Gore"?

I don't see any downsides to this and it certainly cannot be that hard to code, eh?

[Nozybidaj]

Bluumberry wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Shame on you, Leliana was the most-used love interest for straight male wardens in Dragon Age: Origins. You want to re-read your posts in the future before making fun of yourself...again.

So? That doesn't change the fact that she will hit on a female warden and you have the option to have a romance with her with a female Warden. That has nothing to do with however popular she might be with male gamers.

The fact that she will hit on female warden has nothing to do with my male warden.  I never defined Leili by her apptitude to swing both ways.  Maybe that's just me though.

[casedawgz]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Again, many others already suggested it: why not have a simple option at start that lets you choose whether you want homosexual content in your game or not, similar to stuff like "Increased Gore"?

I don't see any downsides to this and it certainly cannot be that hard to code, eh?

Because it carries with it a whole set of nasty implications that shouldn't be raised. Turning homosexuality into a toggle, like "Increased Gore", as you said, implies that homosexuality is immoral and wrong and something that needs to be censored. It's kinda like asking for a filter to turn off black people in a game.

[Bluumberry]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Shame on you, Leliana was the most-used love interest for straight male wardens in Dragon Age: Origins. You want to re-read your posts in the future before making fun of yourself...again.

So? That doesn't change the fact that she will hit on a female warden and you have the option to have a romance with her with a female Warden. That has nothing to do with however popular she might be with male gamers.

The fact that she will hit on female warden has nothing to do with my male warden.  I never defined Leili by her apptitude to swing both ways.  Maybe that's just me though.

I agree, yet people seem to define Zevran so why shouldn't she be included? Zevran at least prefers the opposite sex while it seems Leliana prefers the same sex.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

I kind of liked the idea upthread about a declaration of the PC's sexuality at the start of the game. That way, the homosexuality can be written into the game, but it can be flagged to come out only for the players who are interested. Might be a good way to avoid the awkward "everyone is bi" perception.

[Dark83]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

It didn't fit with the DA2 characters, basically.

In DA:O, Zevran grew up in a brothel and therefore grew up bisexual. It made sense for his character. And with Leliana, she was a seductress and such, and you could just get the vibe from her she was like that.

When I had Anders hit on my male character in DA2, I was just...weirded out. I'm not saying bisexual or gay people weird me out or anything, but it didn't fit for his character. They just put it in there, either cause they were to lazy to really go in depth about it, or just to capture a wider audience in poor fashion, or just both.

They may have changed his character from previous portrayals, no comment on that. However, the idea of ronery men cooped up in a religious order or essentially a jail ending up sleeping with each other really surprises you? Really? :innocent:

[orbit991]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

orbit991 wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Zevhran was bisexual too? Ridiculous, anyone who believes that is on the wrong track. And to me, personally, any male who has sex with other males is ******-, not bisexual.

Maybe you should actually read up before you post.
Because though you imply others to be idiots, the only retard here is you.

He cant help it, probably was raised being beaten by a crucifix.

No, just a conservative man who wants the best for everyone and already accomplished making 2 other men hit on women again.

Whatever your "good" intentions may be, worry about yourself and not others especially regarding some sexual moral compass. I dont think you would appriciate being locked out of something you enjoy just because some other shlep "believed" it was oh so wrong.

[OriginalTibs]

Warheadz wrote...

My problem with the romances is the fact that nearly everyone in Thedas is bi-sexual. I'ts utterly ridiculous!

Not meaning to point this only at you, War, but using your post as the selected sample. Hope you don't mind.

Why is it a problem for many characters to be bisexual?

You can play through without the question even crossing the mind until you start experimenting with the various conversation options (Anders).

IMO, someone living masculine will readily recognize that others have options: You simply mind your own as your nature guides and let others have their own path. Simple. No skin off my nose.

Living masculine generally doesn't get my shorts in a knot because of someone else feeling differently. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

So why is this an issue? Tired of other types wanting to be represented? That would be your problem. There are no types, only individuals.

Modifié par OriginalTibs, 24 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[FellowerOfOdin]

casedawgz wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Again, many others already suggested it: why not have a simple option at start that lets you choose whether you want homosexual content in your game or not, similar to stuff like "Increased Gore"?

I don't see any downsides to this and it certainly cannot be that hard to code, eh?

Because it carries with it a whole set of nasty implications that shouldn't be raised. Turning homosexuality into a toggle, like "Increased Gore", as you said, implies that homosexuality is immoral and wrong and something that needs to be censored. It's kinda like asking for a filter to turn off black people in a game.

Isn't gore in the US considered less threatening than sex in video games?

Anyway, I guess you are right, a lot of homosexual players might want to protest, but...I don't think the situation is much better now that a lot of straight players are upset. Furthermore, it's not Bioware that makes the decision, it's the player...those m/m romances are in by default but the player can switch them off. 

It will happen anyway when the toolset gets updated as there will definitely be a mod that removes this content from the game...and I'll gladly install it when I (maybe) buy the Ultimate Edition.

[Nozybidaj]

Bluumberry wrote...

I agree, yet people seem to define Zevran so why shouldn't she be included? Zevran at least prefers the opposite sex while it seems Leliana prefers the same sex.

I dunno, that's a good question.  I would wager because straight male gamers are much less comfortable seeing a gay man in their game than a gay woman.

[Dark83]

casedawgz wrote...

Because it carries with it a whole set of nasty implications that shouldn't be raised. Turning homosexuality into a toggle, like "Increased Gore", as you said, implies that homosexuality is immoral and wrong and something that needs to be censored. It's kinda like asking for a filter to turn off black people in a game.

He's pretty much outright said that in the thread, you know.

[Iamnotahater]

The problem is the assumption that straight players would want to enter into relationships with BI individuals.

For those of us who like commited relationships and are hetrosexual the game gives us nothing in way of romance.

[Altima Darkspells]

Khayness wrote...

Sorry but.

What the **** does BG2 has to do with it?

This issue can't be related to the older BioWare games. The oldschool hatedom bandwagon left a long time ago.

Baldur's Gate 2 had four romances.  Three were pretty elf girl romances of the various flavors (the bad girl/****, the hard-ass, and the girl-next-door) for male characters only.  One was a rather polarizing figure (some say it was well-done, others say he was a whiner) for women, and if you didn't like him, you were screwed.  Same sex fans could get a mod and pretend, and that's about it.

Since BG2 was the first time BioWare put romance into their games, I'm glad this is one area that they've decided to make more even to reflect their growing audience, instead of just giving male characters three times the content of anyone else and just giving the middle finger to anyone that wants to try a gay or lesbian romance.

Granted, they could do better, but that's true of just about any situation in any game.

[Vicious]

neglecting the core role-playing game market - straight male gamers -

They wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement of they got laid in real life more often.

[atwatters]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Make a homosex option at character creation, every problem is solved.

Seriously though, David Gaider has no clue. He says that romances are for everyone - and that's not true. It's simple as that. If you are a straight man, you do not have any straight romances in the ENTIRE game as everyone is bisexual. 

So basically, David says that the romances are for everyone...but for straight people.

Eloquent, eh? 

I would love to see an option where you can choose between being gay, straight, or bi at the begining of future Bioware games. I'm not homophobic, but I didn't appreciate Anders trying to molest me when I was trying to be his friend, or Fenris calling me a big strong man who he wished he had met sooner (though you can at least turn Fenris down without gaining rivalary points).

End of the day this writer's defense of the situation wasn't very eloquent though and more or less proved the point of the OP. Romances for straight males in this game are either the STD infested pirate or the qurky outsider/dork elf. I was really pulling for the Aveline romance when I had the option to flirt with her but was sadly dissappointed to see that there is no such thing.