269 réponses à ce sujet

[FellowerOfOdin]

Yes a****ters, that would be the better solution as it would not offend anyone - as long as others magically know that you're straight and do not try to hit on you even though you clearly chose the "straight" option.

Such an option might have saved Anders' life

[Warheadz]

OriginalTibs wrote...
Not meaning to point this only at you, War, but using your post as the selected sample. Hope you don't mind.

Why is it a problem for many characters in the tale to have to possibility of being bi?

You can play through without the question even crossing the mind until you start experimenting with the various conversation options (Anders).

IMO, someone living masculine will readily recognize that others have options: You simply mind your own as your nature guides and let others have their own path. Simple. No skin off my nose.

Living masculine generally doesn't get my shorts in a knot because of someone else feeling differently. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

So why is this an issue? Tired of other types wanting to be represented? That would be your problem. There are no types, only individuals.

The thing is, it isn't always about finding the MR./Ms. Right. I find it hard to believe that there is an inner bi in all of us. Some people like it, some people don't but that doesn't mean they live in denial or haven't just met the same-sex person they want to bang. At least in my opinion.
Everyone isn't bi. And the fact that in this game nearly everyone is seems like a design choice made to just try to please everyone and that makes it feel a bit cheap to me. Nobody is so goddamn irresistible that they make people change their sexual preferences suddendly. And even if you don't like it, people DO have sexual preferences, and some people are even disgusted by some preferences (Yes, it's stupid, but a fact). I would like it if some companions were straight, some bi and some homosexual. They would feel a bit more human and a little less like virtual companions that bang you when you command them to.

[Funker Shepard]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Make a homosex option at character creation, every problem is solved.

Seriously though, David Gaider has no clue. He says that romances are for everyone - and that's not true. It's simple as that. If you are a straight man, you do not have any straight romances in the ENTIRE game as everyone is bisexual. 

So basically, David says that the romances are for everyone...but for straight people.

Eloquent, eh? 

... I don't get this. While I'm a straight guy, it's not like I can ever be sure that any partners of mine haven't swung the other way at some point in time. I'm ok with that, it's not like I can affect it. Does that make me less straight?  

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Baldur's Gate 2 had four romances.

Which were good written, lively and not only about sex. There were talks about past and present, many encounters and conversations about making future together.
Those romances were nice. They were prolongued relationships, not a sexpie slised in so many chunks that it felt empty and made just of commitment to fans of all kinds.

[casedawgz]

Does it really hurt people's big, manly feelings so much when a gay man expresses interest in them? You can still say no to Anders, its not like he immediately tears off his robes and starts humping your leg. Turn him down, end the 25 second conversation and move on with your lives.

[orbit991]

There are some seriously sexually insecure individuals here, surely you guys manhood cant be threatened by a couple lines in a game.

[Jman5]

I think at the end of the day it has nothing to do with sexual preference. The problem is that people want characters to have their own distinct personalities, likes, and dislikes. They don't want companions to just be amorphous pieces of clay that you mold to satisfy your whims.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

They don't want companions to just be amorphous pieces of clay that you mold to satisfy your whims.

Exactly.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 24 mars 2011 - 06:40 .

[Monsteroids]

casedawgz wrote...

Does it really hurt people's big, manly feelings so much when a gay man expresses interest in them? You can still say no to Anders, its not like he immediately tears off his robes and starts humping your leg. Turn him down, end the 25 second conversation and move on with your lives.

I want to see this happen. NOW!

[atwatters]

Vicious wrote...

neglecting the core role-playing game market - straight male gamers -

They wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement of they got laid in real life more often.

Having intercourse =/= getting a product  that you expect to appeal to you. Your statement is hypocritical, ironic, and immature in that you expect an element of a game to appeal to your sexual orientation (I'm assuming your part of the homosexual minority) and you accuse others (who happen to be the majority) who want a game to appeal to their oreintations of having entitlement and not getting enough action in real life.

[Dark83]

Iamnotahater wrote...

The problem is the assumption that straight players would want to enter into relationships with BI individuals.

For those of us who like commited relationships and are hetrosexual the game gives us nothing in way of romance.

So by implication, anyone who is not hetrosexual is promiscuous and can't have commited relationships?

[malakian]

Agreed, OP. I'm with Gaider. I'm technically a straight male gamer, but that doesn't make me want to meddle in other people's art. Pretty beguiling anyone does as there is still two, but that's entrenched intolerances for you. Perhaps these 'straight male gamers' aren't getting enough romance options irl.

[orbit991]

Jman5 wrote...

I think at the end of the day it has nothing to do with sexual preference. The problem is that people want characters to have their own distinct personalities, likes, and dislikes. They don't want companions to just be amorphous pieces of clay that you mold to satisfy your whims.

For a few maybe, but overall the tone of this thread is very different.

[Warheadz]

casedawgz wrote...

Does it really hurt people's big, manly feelings so much when a gay man expresses interest in them? You can still say no to Anders, its not like he immediately tears off his robes and starts humping your leg. Turn him down, end the 25 second conversation and move on with your lives.

But does everyone have to be homosexual so the game won't be "homophobic"? I don't understand the reasoning behind the "Everyone will bang anyone"- idea. You should be able to make advances on everyone, but some should shoot you down and some shouldn't.
This isn't about everyone being homophobic, white+straight+male idiots or testosterone- filled masculine men. It's, at least in my opinion, about the design choice to make almost everyone bi without any kind of sexual preference. It's a cheap, ridiculous try to please everyone.

[LobselVith8]

casedawgz wrote...

Does it really hurt people's big, manly feelings so much when a gay man expresses interest in them?

Apparently so. I don't understand why some people are criticizing the game for allowing fans of all sexual preferences to enjoy a relationship with a character they like. I know a few people who expressed disappointment that Alistair and Morrigan were straight, and DA2 addressed such an issue by following the premise followed in Torchwood, where bisexuality was explored by all the characters.

[Warheadz]

casedawgz wrote...

Does it really hurt people's big, manly feelings so much when a gay man expresses interest in them? You can still say no to Anders, its not like he immediately tears off his robes and starts humping your leg. Turn him down, end the 25 second conversation and move on with your lives.

But does everyone have to be homosexual so the game won't be "homophobic"? I don't understand the reasoning behind the "Everyone will bang anyone"- idea. You should be able to make advances on everyone, but some should shoot you down and some shouldn't.
This isn't about everyone being homophobic, white+straight+male idiots or testosterone- filled masculine men. It's, at least in my opinion, about the design choice to make almost everyone bi without any kind of sexual preference. It's a cheap, ridiculous try to please everyone.

Edit: Well damn. Couldnt put it better myself.

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

They don't want companions to just be amorphous pieces of clay that you mold to satisfy your whims.

Exactly.

Modifié par Warheadz, 24 mars 2011 - 06:43 .

[casedawgz]

Dark83 wrote...

Iamnotahater wrote...

The problem is the assumption that straight players would want to enter into relationships with BI individuals.

For those of us who like commited relationships and are hetrosexual the game gives us nothing in way of romance.

So by implication, anyone who is not hetrosexual is promiscuous and can't have commited relationships?

Gotta love those stereotypes. Didn't you know that you can't have a heterosexual relationship with a bisexual girl without her running around and banging all the women she meets? It's just science. /facepalm, what is wrong with these people.

[The Angry One]

I don't always agree with Gaider, but I respect his ability to defend his position.. and in this case I do agree with him 100%.
I hope he never allows some small minded people's self entitlement issues get in the way of his work.

[City6]

a****ters wrote...

Vicious wrote...

neglecting the core role-playing game market - straight male gamers -

They wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement of they got laid in real life more often.

Having intercourse =/= getting a product  that you expect to appeal to you. Your statement is hypocritical, ironic, and immature in that you expect an element of a game to appeal to your sexual orientation (I'm assuming your part of the homosexual minority) and you accuse others (who happen to be the majority) who want a game to appeal to their oreintations of having entitlement and not getting enough action in real life.

I'm not sure you've understood the concept of privilege that the designer was addressing.

[Ryzaki]

I might buy the outrage about "pieces of clay" if I heard the same responses to softening Leliana/hardening her (and Alistair and softening Morrigan). Getting Sten to respect a female elven mage and consider her his "Heart" despite the fact that as a mage she's automatically tainted?

That's not considered outrageous?

Ending a centuries old feud with a [Persuade] line or Duncan reality warping each origin to make it ther just in time just because you picked one isn't making the story a piece of clay?

Oh no. Only sexuality.
Doesn't matter that nothing else about the character changes. 

Anders will still do that "thing" gay or straight. 
Fenris still has his backstory and dislikes most mages
Isabela is still...Isabela
And Merrill still goes through what she does. 

They are highly individualized characters. Being attracted to a same gendered Hawke doesn't make them "clay". 

Leliana and Alistair were far closer to being clay than anyone in DA2 seeing as you could change key traits about them and that would later influence their decisions. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 06:49 .

[AlanC9]

casedawgz wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Again, many others already suggested it: why not have a simple option at start that lets you choose whether you want homosexual content in your game or not, similar to stuff like "Increased Gore"?

I don't see any downsides to this and it certainly cannot be that hard to code, eh?

Because it carries with it a whole set of nasty implications that shouldn't be raised. Turning homosexuality into a toggle, like "Increased Gore", as you said, implies that homosexuality is immoral and wrong and something that needs to be censored. It's kinda like asking for a filter to turn off black people in a game.

Not to mention that the toggle would cause a PR mess. Start catering to homophobes and that's gonna be news.

[Nozybidaj]

Jman5 wrote...

I think at the end of the day it has nothing to do with sexual preference. The problem is that people want characters to have their own distinct personalities, likes, and dislikes. They don't want companions to just be amorphous pieces of clay that you mold to satisfy your whims.

/shrug  And like I said earlier, and I guess maybe I really am alone in this, but I don't define the companions based soley on the orientation of their romance options.  Even if I personally won't use all those options it feels to me rather artificially limiting to restrict them in the way that ME and DA:O did. 

I guess it just doesn't bother me that some person playing out there, somewhere I don't know who I don't know anything about may or may not be romancing Alistar on his male warden.  That wouldn't change who Alistar is to me at all.

[Khayness]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Baldur's Gate 2 had four romances.  Three were pretty elf girl romances of the various flavors (the bad girl/****, the hard-ass, and the girl-next-door) for male characters only.  One was a rather polarizing figure (some say it was well-done, others say he was a whiner) for women, and if you didn't like him, you were screwed.  Same sex fans could get a mod and pretend, and that's about it.

Since BG2 was the first time BioWare put romance into their games, I'm glad this is one area that they've decided to make more even to reflect their growing audience, instead of just giving male characters three times the content of anyone else and just giving the middle finger to anyone that wants to try a gay or lesbian romance.

Granted, they could do better, but that's true of just about any situation in any game.

Right, you are coming from the content for everyone angle, not the avarage stereotypic male gamer image rant spiced with fandom hate.

My bad, spent too much time arguing about that just because I like BG2, I don't make equations out from number pasta while eating a bowl of soup.

[Vicious]

Well according to this thread, I am a homosexual if I think that those whining about 'a gay videogame character hit on my straight character' are pathetic.

Well i'm not, and you are.

lol