269 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark83]

Jman5 wrote...

I think at the end of the day it has nothing to do with sexual preference.

Are you even reading the same thread? There's people complaining they can't enjoy a hetrosexual romance simply because their partner is bisexual.

They have a personality. Merrill is a needy puppy, Isabela is a promoscious pirate, Anders is a magic choirboy, Fenris is a bitter prison *female dog*. The idea that they are "amorphous pieces of clay" purely because they will always be romancable by Hawke is an idea solidly rooted with sexual preference.

[Nozybidaj]

casedawgz wrote...


Gotta love those stereotypes. Didn't you know that you can't have a heterosexual relationship with a bisexual girl without her running around and banging all the women she meets? It's just science. /facepalm, what is wrong with these people.

Of course I know that.  I went to college.  Best 4 years of my life.

[orbit991]

Ok so the biggest issue so the characters wont feel like a piece of clay in this game is the bad bad sexuality and not the many other problems that surrounded this game.

[Inquisitor Recon]

So what other of Gaider's "brilliant" ideas did they implement in DA2, and how did they turn out?

Is his article supposed to make me feel guilty or something? Because it isn't working. I don't owe anybody the right to force Bioware to make all of their characters "amorphous pieces of clay" as somebody eloquently put it. Ever hear of the term "suspension of disbelief"? Pandering to the demands of every minority out there degrades a game's quality as a whole.

[Dark83]

Ryzaki wrote...

Leliana and Alistair were far closer to being clay than anyone in DA2 seeing as you could change key traits about them and that would later influence their decisions.

I totally talked Leliana into a threesome. It was awesome.

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

So what other of Gaider's "brilliant" ideas did they implement in DA2, and how did they turn out?

Is his article supposed to make me feel guilty or something? Because it isn't working. I don't owe anybody the right to force Bioware to make all of their characters "amorphous pieces of clay" as somebody eloquently put it. Ever hear of the term "suspension of disbelief"? Pandering to the demands of every minority out there degrades a game's quality as a whole.

So they should pander to you instead?

[Romantiq]

I simply ignore the fact that they are all BI and proceed with romance option that I want for my straight male / female player. If I want to have some gay romance then I'd rather play Sims 3. It did sort of feel like they were cutting corners. I think it was great in DA:O where we had 2 bisexuals (Zevran and Leliana) and 2 straight (Alistair & Morrigan).

[Bluumberry]

The Angry One wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

So what other of Gaider's "brilliant" ideas did they implement in DA2, and how did they turn out?

Is his article supposed to make me feel guilty or something? Because it isn't working. I don't owe anybody the right to force Bioware to make all of their characters "amorphous pieces of clay" as somebody eloquently put it. Ever hear of the term "suspension of disbelief"? Pandering to the demands of every minority out there degrades a game's quality as a whole.

So they should pander to you instead?

"Me me me me me, oh wait more me."

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
So they should pander to you instead?

Build a game for the masses. If I represent the masses, then yes. If something designed to please some 5% mionirty of players is going to degrade the quality of the writing and characters, don't do it.

[LobselVith8]

Warheadz wrote...

The thing is, it isn't always about finding the MR./Ms. Right. I find it hard to believe that there is an inner bi in all of us. Some people like it, some people don't but that doesn't mean they live in denial or haven't just met the same-sex person they want to bang. At least in my opinion.

There are straight characters in the game, though, like Sebastian.

Warheadz wrote...

Everyone isn't bi. And the fact that in this game nearly everyone is seems like a design choice made to just try to please everyone and that makes it feel a bit cheap to me.

I don't see how respecting the fact that there are gay and bisexual fans out there makes DA2 cheap. Also, simply because we have four characters who we can engage in a romantic relationships with the same sex with doesn't mean everyone is now bisexual - it only means that fans are afforded the choice to be with a character of the same or opposite sex, instead of being forced to play a gender they don't want to simply to be with a character they couldn't be with otherwise. 

Warheadz wrote...

Nobody is so goddamn irresistible that they make people change their sexual preferences suddendly. And even if you don't like it, people DO have sexual preferences, and some people are even disgusted by some preferences (Yes, it's stupid, but a fact). I would like it if some companions were straight, some bi and some homosexual. They would feel a bit more human and a little less like virtual companions that bang you when you command them to.

Nobody "bangs" you when you command them to. The storyline has romances spread out, after all. It takes years before Hawke can engage in a romantic relationship with Merrill, for instance. We also have straight companions. Aveline is straight. Sebastian is straight. I never asked Varric, so I suppose he could be straight or gay. I thought the characters were very human, personally.

[orbit991]

ReconTeam wrote...

So what other of Gaider's "brilliant" ideas did they implement in DA2, and how did they turn out?

Is his article supposed to make me feel guilty or something? Because it isn't working. I don't owe anybody the right to force Bioware to make all of their characters "amorphous pieces of clay" as somebody eloquently put it. Ever hear of the term "suspension of disbelief"? Pandering to the demands of every minority out there degrades a game's quality as a whole.

Stop with the piece of clay already, it would take a heck of a lot more then catering just to your sexual taste to make the characters seem more "alive".

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So they should pander to you instead?

Build a game for the masses. If I represent the masses, then yes. If something designed to please some 5% mionirty of players is going to degrade the quality of the writing and characters, don't do it.

Assuming it degrades anything.
Assuming the "masses" deserve special consideration.

If this game were made "for the masses" it'd be a sports game. Compared to sports gamers, RPG players are a minority. The minority should not be pleased before the majority as it degrades the game.
Bring on John Madden's Dragon Age '11.

[orbit991]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So they should pander to you instead?

Build a game for the masses. If I represent the masses, then yes. If something designed to please some 5% mionirty of players is going to degrade the quality of the writing and characters, don't do it.

Yea screw those minorities I say. Because those couple of lines really degraded the quality.

[Nozybidaj]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So they should pander to you instead?

Build a game for the masses. If I represent the masses, then yes. If something designed to please some 5% mionirty of players is going to degrade the quality of the writing and characters, don't do it.

I think you are placing cause for the effect where it doesn't belong in this case.  If the DA2 romances are as lacking as some seem to imply I would be much more apt to place the blame on time constraints. 

Unless of course you are saying that Leili was also of degraded quality, in which case those are fighting words.

[Dark83]

ReconTeam wrote...

If something designed to please some 5% mionirty of players is going to degrade the quality of the writing and characters, don't do it.

How exactly does companions happening to have the sexual orientation to match your Hawke degrade the quality of writing and characters?

[Crash_7]

Much a do about nothing.

The romances in DA: O were hardly complex affairs.  "I found this and thought you could use it...  er... why do you have your hand on my crotch!". 

The fact that everyone is bisexual is just one more 'streamlining' operation.  As a player of DA, that has no interest in romancing any of my followers, I can honestly say that having to navigate away from accidentally ending up in the sack with an NPC is both annoying and amusing at the same time.

Frankly I couldn't care less.  There are more important things wrong with DA 2 to worry over. 

[FearMonkey]

I haven't read through the whole post yet, but here's my two cents on this whole thing.

This is all just role-playing.

I am not gay, but does that mean my character isn't? I am not female, but I sometimes choose to play as a female character. Said female character could also be gay. If my character doesn't find any of my companions appealing, I do not actively seek a romance. Simple as that.

Again, this is all just role-playing to me. Anybody else agree?

Modifié par FearMonkey, 24 mars 2011 - 07:04 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
Assuming it degrades anything.
Assuming the "masses" deserve special consideration.

If this game were made "for the masses" it'd be a sports game. Compared to sports gamers, RPG players are a minority. The minority should not be pleased before the majority as it degrades the game.
Bring on John Madden's Dragon Age '11.

No need to jump to insane conclusions here. A company, in this case Bioware has a market already in mind, that being the market most western RPGs try to appeal to. If some 5% of players deserve special consideration, you saying the other  95% don't? It is okay for them to deal with shallow writing and etc. as long as those 5% are pleased?

[The Angry One]

The assumption that making the 4 main romances degrades romances rests on the opinion that certain personality traits make you straight or gay.
"But Merril is cute and innocent! How can she be bi!" I'm sorry, what? Since when is sexuality coupled to personality? There are cute and innocent people who are gay, and there are raunchy and sassy people who are straighter than a pole.

[Artoz96]

So... in game we need: black guy, latinas, chinese and white guy. Also we need: gay, lesbian, bi.

Have I mentioned everything that is needed in rpg to not insult somebody?

This really a bad way to try of being good to everyone.

It sooo funny for me when in historical film about old Britain we can see black guy )))) There were no such people in that time in Britain!

So back to DA2, so all nps's are bi... really? WHY? Because you want everybody to have equal rights? But game is not about real life, not about America, Europe or about a problem with human rights. It is a fantasy game and its time is equal to medieval. I cant imagine gay knight, can you?

So again, this game is about some place that is not equal to America, all the writers need really concern about is immersion... and it is not in any way I can belieave that all people in this place are bi. It just dont make sence!

You dont expect blasters in DA, do you? So WHY all romanceble characters are bi?

[Monsteroids]

Ryzaki wrote... the best post here.

Jaja, I saw it. You saw it. We all saw it.
So why is sexuality such serious business anyways?
In fact, doesn't Bioware have a rather signifigant LGBT fanbase?

Trying to appeal to the demographics who support your work and buy your games seems like a novel idea to me.

Why does what one person do with their playthrough affect what you do in yours?
Why does what two consenting adults do together affect your life?
Why would bisexuality affect a love you share with someone?

Sense?

[Ryzaki]

Dark83 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

If something designed to please some 5% mionirty of players is going to degrade the quality of the writing and characters, don't do it.

How exactly does companions happening to have the sexual orientation to match your Hawke degrade the quality of writing and characters?

Well obviously bisexual characters are of lower quality than heterosexual ones. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2011 - 07:05 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

orbit991 wrote...
Yea screw those minorities I say. Because those couple of lines really degraded the quality.

Reading around it seems I'm not the only one who finds characters who swing whatever way depending on whatever the player wants cheesy at best.

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...


No need to jump to insane conclusions here. A company, in this case Bioware has a market already in mind, that being the market most western RPGs try to appeal to. If some 5% of players deserve special consideration, you saying the other  95% don't? It is okay for them to deal with shallow writing and etc. as long as those 5% are pleased?

WHAT special consideration? 
It's called an option. An option that despite the bleatings of people who don't have a clue, you don't have to deal with if you don't want to.

And even if you did.. guess what? Being straight does not give you the right to never, ever, ever be hit on by a gay person. You simply tell them no, and the world moves on. Stop acting like you're somehow being persecuted.

[Altima Darkspells]

Khayness wrote...

Right, you are coming from the content for everyone angle, not the avarage stereotypic male gamer image rant spiced with fandom hate.

My bad, spent too much time arguing about that just because I like BG2, I don't make equations out from number pasta while eating a bowl of soup.

Well, the correct use of grammar should have been the first clue!

I mean, isn't the average, stereotypical white male gamer sound something like this:

"Me no like woman with smart mouth.  You shut up now or no wild-monkey sex for you."

The Angry One wrote...

So they should pander to you instead?

They should totally pander to me!  They can start by pretending, just for a second, that there's the possibility of there being a female lead in Mass Effect.

Tangent: I'm actually really glad that Iconic!Hawke is a male now.  I'd really hate to have EA denial go into blaming poor sales on a pair of breasts on the box art.