269 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Enough with your slippery slopes. It is fine as it is now, and you have yet to come up with a single valid argument as to why it is not aside from your obvious self-entitlement issues and useless "where will it end!" fallacies.

Oh please. Your entire argument is based around the idea that gay players are "entitled" to this content which is absolute BS. Just because you think it is fine now, doesn't mean it is so.

No. I am stating that it is a choice like any other, one which you can easily not take.
That you treat sexualities other than your own as abnormal is your problem, not mine, not David Gaider's and not BioWare's.

[TMZuk]

Perhaps the majority of adventurers are bi-sexual? They are, after all, not afraid of adventure....

:D:D

Or perhaps the developers have been playing online, the MMOs are crammed with lesbian characters, I wonder why?

Anyway, I have to say that of all the problems I have with DA2, this is probably the most insignificant. Actually, I couldn't care less. I suppose it goes to show how difficult it is to design a succesful game; one player is annoyed by bisexual characters, while another is annoyed by over the top combat.

[truestatic]

v_ware wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

truestatic wrote...
My big problem: no matter what pants I wear, every single romanceable NPC will want in them.

Wear a skirt.  There's more room?

Parachute pants, bro.

HAMMERTIME!

Can't touch this.

[Monsteroids]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...
..and those are related to Dragon Age setting how?
How many bi's, gays or lesbians do we actually meet in DA2? Most of the quests are related to sons, daighters, fathers, mothers, and whole lot of family business.
Now if we'd be plaing in Orlais, I would't dare to say anything even if we had three lesbians in party.

Nothing, that was an offtopic post bcause I saw something that iterested me and wanted to elaborate.
Dragon Age has a fairly open setting all around. That's been estblished.

[Bluumberry]

This thread is going faster than hotcakes, it's entertaining.

[Ryzaki]

v_ware wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

truestatic wrote...
My big problem: no matter what pants I wear, every single romanceable NPC will want in them.

Wear a skirt.  There's more room?

Parachute pants, bro.

HAMMERTIME!

Thanks for sticking this song in my head. 

[Euno17]

Rykoth wrote...

So people are upset...

... that the love interest that they might favor, could be romancable by a female as well as a male?

First off... grow up.
Second off... grow up some more.
Third off... go learn how to be tolerant. I'm a straight male gamer and I have no friggin problem with the fact someone can romance isabela or merrill as a female. Why the hell do you think you have some sort of moral crisis going on?

Personally I'm not against gays or anything (esp. when it comes to fair and equal rights) but I do think that there should be different characters for different sexual orientations. Make one straight male/one straight female, one bi male/one bi female - what-ever. Just don't make them all bi. 

For example, I'm not one to like one of my male 'companions' to hit on me during the game (or thinks of me sexually - it's uncomfortable to me as a player ) so if I want, I should be be able to change my companions to straight males or straight females if I so choose. 

If I had bought this game - I wouldn't want to feel like I got a game only to feel uncomfortable about every single one of my companions. That's just me /shrug. I can't say how other straight males think/feel so I can't voice their opinions.

[AlanC9]

ReconTeam wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
That's not at all what Mr. Gaider said...

Talk of "privilege" is exactly that.

An actual argument here woudl be nice.....

[truestatic]

Ryzaki wrote...

v_ware wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

truestatic wrote...
My big problem: no matter what pants I wear, every single romanceable NPC will want in them.

Wear a skirt.  There's more room?

Parachute pants, bro.

HAMMERTIME!

Thanks for sticking this song in my head. 

One does what one can.

But now we're getting offtopic :v

Modifié par truestatic, 24 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[Dark83]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

..and those are related to Dragon Age setting how?

Hm, well, the Human Noble could bed the servant elf girl or the son, regardless of your own gender. They certain didn't seem the least bit surprised.

[OriginalTibs]

Vicious wrote...

neglecting the core role-playing game market - straight male gamers -

They wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement of they got laid in real life more often.

Hm. If they did, then would they still be the core RPG gaming market?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[AllThatJazz]

casedawgz wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

So... in game we need: black guy, latinas, chinese and white guy. Also we need: gay, lesbian, bi.

Have I mentioned everything that is needed in rpg to not insult somebody?

This really a bad way to try of being good to everyone.

It sooo funny for me when in historical film about old Britain we can see black guy )))) There were no such people in that time in Britain!

So back to DA2, so all nps's are bi... really? WHY? Because you want everybody to have equal rights? But game is not about real life, not about America, Europe or about a problem with human rights. It is a fantasy game and its time is equal to medieval. I cant imagine gay knight, can you?

So again, this game is about some place that is not equal to America, all the writers need really concern about is immersion... and it is not in any way I can belieave that all people in this place are bi. It just dont make sence!

You dont expect blasters in DA, do you? So WHY all romanceble characters are bi?

Really, gay people are a recent development? Yeah no.

@Artoz96 And also, there have been black people in Britain since Roman times at least. Not to mention that Queen Charlotte (wife of George III) was of African descent.

Personally, I think the fact that Bioware have chosen to include as much content for those who don't represent a majority of their demographic as for those who do, speaks highly in their favour.  That the DA team have not accounted for 'privilege' is brilliant.

I also find it hard to believe that most straight male gamers honestly care one way or the other whether such content is there.  If such is, in fact, the case, then I'm really happy to be married to someone who takes a different view. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
No. I am stating that it is a choice like any other, one which you can easily not take.
That you treat sexualities other than your own as abnormal is your problem, not mine, not David Gaider's and not BioWare's.

And the only reason that choice was added was to please some 5% of gamers who believe they are entitled to this content. All of the LIs being bisexual? Statistically this is pretty damn unlikely. Tell me, what about DA1 wasn't enough and led to Bioware taking such insane steps?

[AlanC9]

Euno17 wrote...
For example, I'm not one to like one of my male 'companions' to hit on me during the game (or thinks of me sexually - it's uncomfortable to me as a player ) so if I want, I should be be able to change my companions to straight males or straight females if I so choose. 

If I had bought this game - I wouldn't want to feel like I got a game only to feel uncomfortable about every single one of my companions. That's just me /shrug. I can't say how other straight males think/feel so I can't voice their opinions. 

Hmm... what if compnions only hit on your PC if you've expressed a sexual interest already? Would you be OK with that design?

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
No. I am stating that it is a choice like any other, one which you can easily not take.
That you treat sexualities other than your own as abnormal is your problem, not mine, not David Gaider's and not BioWare's.

And the only reason that choice was added was to please some 5% of gamers who believe they are entitled to this content.

Or it was included to give players more options. Gasp.

All of the LIs being bisexual? Statistically this is pretty damn unlikely. Tell me, what about DA1 wasn't enough and led to Bioware taking such insane steps?

Insane? There are four people who desire a soulmate and partner, and it just so happens they find that in Hawke no matter Hawke's gender. There's nothing insane or pandering about that.

[Altima Darkspells]

truestatic wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

v_ware wrote...

truestatic wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

truestatic wrote...
My big problem: no matter what pants I wear, every single romanceable NPC will want in them.

Wear a skirt.  There's more room?

Parachute pants, bro.

HAMMERTIME!

Thanks for sticking this song in my head. 

One does what one can.

But now we're getting offtopic :v

And thus, the great homosexual schism of our time began.  Not between butches or femmes, twinks and bears (or the "ducks and chicks" codes we use when, y'know, the hets are around), but those of the parachute pants and those of the skirts.

May God have mercy upon us all.

On our next episode of Off Topic: Are Jedis homosexual as well?

I am fabulous.

You are fabulous.

[mesmerizedish]

ReconTeam wrote...

And the only reason that choice was added was to please some 5% of gamers who believe they are entitled to this content. All of the LIs being bisexual? Statistically this is pretty damn unlikely. Tell me, what about DA1 wasn't enough and led to Bioware taking such insane steps?

Well, I was very happy with Origins and its s/s content, but I'm even happier with DAII's. Since you asked, this is because, in Origins, you had a choice. I didn't. That's all there is to it.

How is giving me the same choice that you have an "insane step"?

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 24 mars 2011 - 07:41 .

[truestatic]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

And thus, the great homosexual schism of our time began.  Not between butches or femmes, twinks and bears (or the "ducks and chicks" codes we use when, y'know, the hets are around), but those of the parachute pants and those of the skirts.

May God have mercy upon us all.

On our next episode of Off Topic: Are Jedis homosexual as well?

I am fabulous.

You are fabulous.

Did Episode 3 leave any doubt?

[The Angry One]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

On our next episode of Off Topic: Are Jedis homosexual as well?

The plural for Jedi is Jedi! This topic is now about how ignorant you are of Star Wars nerd lore!

[Puzzlewell]

Heather Cline wrote...

I agree with Mister Gaider. He's right that it comes down to people feeling privileged and thinking they have the right to dictate who gets what when they shouldn't.

Calamity Ranger, Isabela's romance is very satisfying and her sleeping with many people is a front as you find out towards the end of the game. She's bisexual she never hid it in DA:O and she doesn't hide it in DA2. But she uses that as a shield to keep herself from falling in love, from getting hurt. It's a well written story for Isabela's romance.

Merrill's story is also well crafted when you play through for her romance.

Another thing is that gay, lesbians and bisexuals have been around since even ancient days. They just hid it better and those that couldn't stomach marrying the opposite gender found a way around it and didn't get married. Some women lived with another woman in a house being spinsters. Men of the gay orientation married, had sex with their spouses to produce heirs because it was expected of them. But more often than not they didn't sleep with their wives beyond that. They had personal male lovers that they spent time with. Only being with the family when it was necessary for appearance purposes.

So anyone who states that there were no homosexuals or bisexuals or anything in between back in ancient history is out of their minds and are ignorant of the past.

I couldn't agree more. I actually used that very thought (of Isabela using her escapades as a defense mechanism) to defend her in the topic where someone was angsting over the two female LIs being terrible. By the end of the relationship it completely warmed my heart. This is the no spoiler section so I can't start rambling but between a banter she had with Merrill and the scene in the Gallows, it was such a wonderful romance (and as I said earlier, I usually have a hard time straying from my first LI in a BioWare game... ). I'm really looking forward to seeing Merrill's through. I kind of started hers a bit but turned her down when she came to Hawke's mansion in order to stay true to Bela (and that just made the chapter 3 conversation with her where the relationship becomes official that much sweeter with something she says to Hawke ).

I'm a bit of a Sheryl Chee fangirl though. Lel and Wynne were my favorite characters in DAO and once I learned she'd be writing Bela I knew I'd have to do her romance first. <3

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
Or it was included to give players more options. Gasp.

Insane? There are four people who desire a soulmate and partner, and it just so happens they find that in Hawke no matter Hawke's gender. There's nothing insane or pandering about that.

More options? For some 5% of players? Right...

It is extremely unlikely that all of them just happen to be bisexual. In fact it is more likely that everybody in Hawke's party would be straight. Yet I'm guessing some people might complain if that was the case. It was a deliberate move designed to pander to a small community of players.

[AlanC9]

ReconTeam wrote...
Tell me, what about DA1 wasn't enough and led to Bioware taking such insane steps?

How do you figure "insane" here? I've looked at Leliana's dialog file, and making her bi was simply not that much work.

[Artoz96]

The Angry One wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

Angry one - this is history. History - Angry one. I am happy you meat each other.

So Japan... is it near Europe? Or... maybe when we talk about knights we mean samurai?  Or maybe... just imagine this... when we say medieval we mean europe (western)  from the end of Roman Empire to the time of Renaissance? You see what I mean? There is no samurais here, there is no spartans.

But ok, even if we are not talking about time and western mythology (there is no elves and dwarvs in Japan mythology). Knight is a warrior of Godб he follows bible, and samurai is warrior who follows bushido. It is quite different. If you are Knight you cant be gay.

I suggest you read up on your history and don't come back until you stop confusing knights with crusaders.

Ohh... dont be so rude :innocent: It is Your history as such as mine. So, you dont believe me... it insults me sooo much. But... maybe you will believe wikipedia.

"The verb "to knight", i.e. to make someone a knight appears around 1300,
and from the same time, the word "knighthood" shifted from
"adolescence" to "rank or dignity of a knight".

The ideal of chivalry as the ethos of the Christian warrior, and the transmutation of the term knight from the meaning "servant, soldier", and of chevalier "mounted soldier", to refer to a member of this ideal class, is significantly influenced by the Crusaders, on one hand inspired by the military orders of monastic warriors, as seen retrospectively from the point of view of the beginning Late Middle Ages" (Late Middle Ages starts from 1300).

http://en.wikipedia....eval_knighthood

[Sinmara]

True and clear words by David Gaider, I agree 100 %. Thumbs up!

And I really dont understand the problems people have. If the define their char as "male straight" they can play their romance also as "straight". why do they have problems, other people at other computers can decide another definition? thats nonsens, and the thinking of "this npc is dirty cause in another one's game he/she is gay". thats the thinking/feeling behind.

The NPCs are not "bi", they are player-sexual, they react at the player, not at the gender. I read NEVER a dialogue line in DA2 about the gender-problem. ("Do you love me as a women/men..") only about the race by Merrill. The only line in this way I read was in DAO by Leliana.