2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Jazz]

ReconTeam wrote...

Typically the only straight people I see who want Bioware to add such stuff are suffering from a severe case of white male guilt.

Or they enjoy roleplaying games and like to have a number of diverse options while playing differing roles? It's like how I'm not actually crazy about thieves or assassins, yet I tend to play rogue characters in rpgs.

[Bathead]

ReconTeam wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
You seem to assume only gay and bi people want these on bioware games. You would be wrong. Most people just aren't bothered with this anymore.

I mean it's year 2011, not 1970.

Typically the only straight people I see who want Bioware to add such stuff are suffering from a severe case of white male guilt. And yes, if you add 41 to 1970 you get 2011. Saying "it is ____ not ____" doesn't mean anything. I'm against it because I am starting to see it negatively effect the quality of their games.

As a straight white male, the only reason I have no problem with it is because I am confident in my own sexuality and feel this is totally a NON-ISSUE. It's in the game for those that want the option tp pursue it, and if you don't want to, you don't have to. it's as simple as tthat.

[Inquisitor Recon]

v_ware wrote...
So a white male can only have a positive attitude towards gays if you have white male guilt for being racists to black people in the past? I thought you said the comparison between gays and blacks was a false one.

You are starting to be less and less coherent. (I was going to say make sense, but you didn't make that from the start.) I see cracks in your facade.

Tolerance and "approval" are two different concepts entirely. And yes I do see plenty of individuals in the real world whom try to play off others undeserved guilt for deeds they did not committ.

Are you trying to imply your argument was ever coherent? All you've contributed was something about "love=love" which isn't true.

[Galad22]

JohnEpler wrote...

I will point out that expecting us to change how we make our games because certain optional aspects of them make people uncomfortable is likely destined for disappointment. Characters are written or designed based on what the writers feel is best for those characters, and that's not going to change.

And let's also keep in mind that 'rivalry' is not a punishment. I'd wager that the majority of people on this planet have either been disappointed or disappointed someone else because advances were rejected. The character in question will quickly get over it, and you can still have them as a friendship.

I am glad you think so.

I can't say I agreed with you people on many things in DA2. But I do agree in this!

[Sharn01]

v_ware wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
You seem to assume only gay and bi people want these on bioware games. You would be wrong. Most people just aren't bothered with this anymore.

I mean it's year 2011, not 1970.

Typically the only straight people I see who want Bioware to add such stuff are suffering from a severe case of white male guilt. And yes, if you add 41 to 1970 you get 2011. Saying "it is ____ not ____" doesn't mean anything. I'm against it because I am starting to see it negatively effect the quality of their games.

So a white male can only have a positive attitude towards gays if you have white male guilt for being racists to black people in the past? I thought you said the comparison between gays and blacks was a false one.

You are starting to be less and less coherent. (I was going to say make sense, but you didn't make that from the start.) I see cracks in your facade.

Hes full of it, I have some regret for mistakes I have made in the past, but I have regrets because I realize what I did was wrong.  I grew up, I travelled the world in the military and I have seen hate in the worst of its forms, I am one of the people who is steadfastly against catering to a minority to try and make up the difference of the percieved lesser chances that they have, but I am in favor of equality for them.  I see what is taking place in DA2 as equality, some people are upset that the game doesnt favor their ideals over someone elses.

[demodar]

Problem comes from the fact that he refuse to refuse .

[AngelicMachinery]

Gaider makes me swoon! Thank you!

[Wra1thstouch]

In the next DA installment, I demand my gay lover Anders be elven, qunari, or dwarven. Also, he must be dark-complected. And of the Chasind religion (or Tevinter). <insert obscure DA demographic>

PS - As a white male, I think it's odd that there isn't a single non-white NPC party-member.... that I've met yet. And there's too many damned Brits! That's racist!

[Galad22]

ReconTeam wrote...
Tolerance and "approval" are two different concepts entirely. And yes I do see plenty of individuals in the real world whom try to play off others undeserved guilt for deeds they did not committ.

Are you trying to imply your argument was ever coherent? All you've contributed was something about "love=love" which isn't true.

Why do you have to approve, what other people do?

It is quite enough that you tolerate their existence.

[Drake Sigar]

I don’t want to be hit on by men because I’m not attracted to them, but a toggle to switch off gay romances sounds like skirting the line of intolerance to me.

[Mr.House]

All the LIs in future Bioware games should all be sexy men and one girl who is only interested in a female hero.

[Master Shiori]

Kudos to David Gaider and Bioware for taking a stand on the issue of sexuality in their games. While I am a straight gamer, I'm happy to see the bisexual options included for others and actually do use them myself. More options when it comes to romances is always a good thing in my book.

Also, with the flirt lines being clearly marked as such in DA2, it's become real easy to avoid accidently starting a romance or flirting with someone.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 24 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[xCelesx]

Well I don't want Anders to hit on my female charcter either, just deal with the rivalry points is it really that big a deal?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Bathead wrote...
As a straight white male, the only reason I have no problem with it is because I am confident in my own sexuality and feel this is totally a NON-ISSUE.

Ooh, I love that one. One of my favorite underhanded argument. "If your not with us your secretly gay yourself."

[The Angry One]

In DA3 if you have a male Hawke save, the Anders romance should be canon and compulsory!
Well of course not, but I'd love to see the reaction.

Master Shiori wrote...

Kudos to David Gaider and Bioware for taking a stand on the issue of sexuality in their games. While I am a straight gamer, I'm happy to see the bisexual options included for others and actually do use them myself. More options when it comes to romances is always a good thing in my book.

Also, with the flirt lines being clearly marked as such in DA2, it's become real easy to avoid accidently starting a romance or flirting with someone.

If only certain others would understand this very simple fact.

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

Bathead wrote...
As a straight white male, the only reason I have no problem with it is because I am confident in my own sexuality and feel this is totally a NON-ISSUE.

Ooh, I love that one. One of my favorite underhanded argument. "If your not with us your secretly gay yourself."

And that is less contrived than your own "white-male guilt" argument how?

[Mooh Bear]

Artoz96 wrote...

Mooh Bear wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

I really dont get it, why u make people eat gay content if they don't want it than he is bad/evil/etc.

Do you understand that it is theirs right, like it your right to demand to include gay content.

Some people (and I) just want a button to switch off gay content for their game. Ok, I understand that nobody will do it, cause a lot of people will start to cry about intolerance. Just dont script npc to propose gay sex. I dont want it at all. And it is my right.

You mean, like you think it is your right to not have to deal with black, poor or disabled people because they make you uncomfortable/inconvenience you? Because that's exactly what you're saying. Unless, for some reasons, homosexuals are special?

I know, you wouldn's undertand but I will try... You see, it is like you ask me if I think I have a right to complain about things I dont want. Why you always try to chance topic and talk about black, poor etc. I have seen a lot of times that people dont like to deal with poor people (homeless), but if you ask them "are u intollerate to poor peopele" they will say "of course not" and it is a lie. By talking about tolerance you make people lie. They cant say I dont want to deal with gay people because it is intolerate.

But why it is tolerate to say that these people are intolerate? How is that theirs right to not deal with people they dont like intollerate? They dont insult gay, they dont hit them, they just go away!

So no, I dont have problems with black poor people. And dont have problems with gay, until they try to flirt to me, Thats all.

What do you mean "And dont have problems with gay, until they try to flirt to me"? Are you wearing a "I'm straight" badge? How would a gay know that you're straight otherwise? And what would you do if it happened?
How is it not being intolerant to want them to "go away"? I mean,  how saying: "It's not that I don't like you, I just don't want to you anywhere near me." to people that are not a threat, or even a nuisance, in any way, shape or form not intolerant?

[Dr. Stephen J. Krune III]

JohnEpler wrote...

I will point out that expecting us to change how we make our games because certain optional aspects of them make people uncomfortable is likely destined for disappointment. Characters are written or designed based on what the writers feel is best for those characters, and that's not going to change.

And let's also keep in mind that 'rivalry' is not a punishment. I'd wager that the majority of people on this planet have either been disappointed or disappointed someone else because advances were rejected. The character in question will quickly get over it, and you can still have them as a friendship.

I for one am not pleased to hear this. Are you saying that if writers decide not to include homosexual characters and romances, that such an expression of bigotry is okay??? I hope that Bioware is more sophisticated than that and would fire any writers who exhibit homophobia or stealth homophobia (the latter being homophobia for which there is no proof but you know it's there).

[Mr.House]

ReconTeam wrote...
Ooh, I love that one. One of my favorite underhanded argument. "If your not with us your secretly gay yourself."

Your just afraid to come out of the closet babe.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Galad22 wrote...
Why do you have to approve, what other people do?

It is quite enough that you tolerate their existence.

I don't know why, but some people seem to insist others approve of them. Now the funny thing is I do tolerate their existence. This may be tough for you to comprehend but I do indeed know gay individuals and get along with them. Yet much as you don't talk about politics in the work-place you don't start talking about morality.

[demodar]

Somehow i got a bigger picture . Why are you seeking attention from gay and bi people in this forum?
Why did you make a petition?

[Pacifien]

You know, if the writers wanted to include the option in the game they were making, that's kinda the benefit of being the writer of the game. To disapprove is to essentially make known that they didn't make the game the way you personally wanted. Either they're going to step back and think "oh, well, while making a game we're proud of, we also want you to enjoy it" and something changes or it's "sorry you didn't like the game, but that's what we want to do."

[The Angry One]

Dr. Stephen J. Krune III wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I will point out that expecting us to change how we make our games because certain optional aspects of them make people uncomfortable is likely destined for disappointment. Characters are written or designed based on what the writers feel is best for those characters, and that's not going to change.

And let's also keep in mind that 'rivalry' is not a punishment. I'd wager that the majority of people on this planet have either been disappointed or disappointed someone else because advances were rejected. The character in question will quickly get over it, and you can still have them as a friendship.

I for one am not pleased to hear this. Are you saying that if writers decide not to include homosexual characters and romances, that such an expression of bigotry is okay??? I hope that Bioware is more sophisticated than that and would fire any writers who exhibit homophobia or stealth homophobia (the latter being homophobia for which there is no proof but you know it's there).

How do you get that from his statement? He's saying characters are made based on what the writers feel fits the character, not on mandatory external needs.

[CheeseEnchilada]

No matter what Bioware does, someone is going to complain.

Have strict sexualities for everyone? Well that's not fair, 'x' character is straight and 'y' character is a lesbian; there should be more options!

All bisexual? That's unrealistic and lazy writing!

Subjective sexuality? Oh please, that's turning the characters into a lump of clay! They're not as in-depth anymore!

Debating these three options on a writing standpoint is fine, and I've seen some good arguments on all sides. It comes down to a preference on how we view characters. Asking for content to be removed does not come off well--the characters are already written as bisexual or subjective. Getting rid of any same-sex content in this game doesn't change how they're written, which leaves only one uncomfortable explanation.

Modifié par CheeseEnchilada, 24 mars 2011 - 10:06 .

[Monsteroids]

Mr.House wrote...
Your just afraid to come out of the closet babe.

Personally, I was never in one. Too damn stuffy.
I did try going in a wardrobe once, but Narnia was nowhere to be found. Then the claustrophobia kicked in, which is funny because I'm generally not claustrophobic in the least.

Modifié par Monsteroids, 24 mars 2011 - 10:06 .