2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So what, we should carry obsolete dogma into our videogames?

Obsolete dogma? Typical. It all boils down to "my morality is better than your morality" which is nonsense. Your the one who is unwilling to compromise, not I.

You have the option not to follow Anders' romance. Fenris never brings it up if you don't first.

What more of a compromise do you want? 

Theres a giant broken heart icon for you to use that'll stop sexual advances from characters. Do you wan someoneto push the button for you? 

[City6]

moilami wrote...

I aks why you gay and bi people have to attack very aggressively on heteros who has done nothing to you. You have done it to me, you did it to OP here, and I have seen you doing it to other people too.

Can you please stop ad hominem attacks and focus on what the person has asked.

The OP asked for hetero romance. Why you begun to attack him?

People can become quite irritated, as the designer stated, when people can be such ostriches as to be unaware of their own blatant heterosexist privilege.

[The Angry One]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I have asked nicely to please keep from bashing religion, look I'm bi and go to church and guess what I don't combust when I start my prayers, homophobes and gays alike use religion either as a shield or as something to target and assault. Pleas stop. Don't bring real religions into a discussion about fiction it's a bit revolting to see

Please understand that most of us, me included are not "bashing" religion, but speaking against values generated by society in the past, many of which just happen to be spread through religion but that in the end is not the issue.
The problem is people claiming that such values from the past should be carried over to 2011 completely intact.
This just isn't true.

[mesmerizedish]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So what, we should carry obsolete dogma into our videogames?

Obsolete dogma? Typical. It all boils down to "my morality is better than your morality" which is nonsense. Your the one who is unwilling to compromise, not I.

Well, I'd say it's "My morality is nicer than your morality," which can be objectively observed. Acceptance versus intolerance isn't a very difficult decision.

That said, religion is really too personal an issue to get into in a discussion like this. The only thing that bible-bashing or bible-thumping is going to accomplish is to get the thread locked more quickly. Which may not be a bad thing, but as long as it's open, I'd like to think that it's open because no one's being too much of a dick.

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
Or are you stating that values from the 19th century are equally valid today?

The same values we had in the 20th century? Your damned right I think they are more valid than whatever new age nonsense you're going to preach to us.

[Russalka]

ReconTeam wrote...
The same values we had in the 20th century? Your damned right I think they are more valid than whatever new age nonsense you're going to preach to us.

Gays back to the closet and women into modest clothing and to their rightful places as submissive to men?

[The Metalion]

Dr. Stephen J. Krune III wrote...
This is why I believe these homophobes should be forced to play games where gay characters have sex with them. They are privileged bigots and until they are forcibly made to encounter gayness as it was meant to be, they will cling to their guns, religion, and heterosexism. Avoiding homosexuals can no longer be an option. I really truly wish they could be forced to live with homosexuals, and possibly have sex with them. It's the only way we are gong to stomp this bigotry out! Also they should all be banned from this forum.

BWAAHAHAHAAHA!!! 

Best post ever.

Modifié par The Metalion, 24 mars 2011 - 11:10 .

[Merci357]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Or are you stating that values from the 19th century are equally valid today?

The same values we had in the 20th century? Your damned right I think they are more valid than whatever new age nonsense you're going to preach to us.

Nonsense? Laws about gender equality are nonsense?

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Or are you stating that values from the 19th century are equally valid today?

The same values we had in the 20th century? Your damned right I think they are more valid than whatever new age nonsense you're going to preach to us.

Treatment of people based on the content of their character, not their race, beliefs, gender or sexuality is "new age nonsense"?
Because those are my values.

[Deadmac]

Russalka wrote...

Christianity, religion, can co-exist with all sexualities. Just let it happen.

Before people question why religion is in this topic, "Dragon Age: Origins" and "Dragon Age II" is filled with religious philosophies. Even though they are not Christian philosophies, the core idea behind the Chantary is a twisted form of Christianity.

Now, even though I firmly believe people should do whatever they want, without my interference, just don't expect God to change his rules to accommodate sinful acts. Sure, Christianity should take steps to make everyone welcomed regardless about sexuality (so they can achieve redeption); however, it takes a confession of such sinful acts to get salvation. People have a problem with religion because they cannot meet God's criteria.

When it comes to the topic at hand, I think discriminating against anyone is a horrible idea. If BioWare is going to give homosexuals (gay and lesbians) options, they should also accommodate heterosexuals with 'on and off options' prior to playing the game. Anything else would be an act of discrimination against heterosexuals.

Modifié par Deadmac, 24 mars 2011 - 11:12 .

[Ryzaki]

The Angry One wrote...
Please understand that most of us, me included are not "bashing" religion, but speaking against values generated by society in the past, many of which just happen to be spread through religion but that in the end is not the issue.
The problem is people claiming that such values from the past should be carried over to 2011 completely intact.
This just isn't true.

Agreed. Women are not property to be sold, are not "wicked temptress" are not lesser to men. Gender issues alone makes it unnecessary and counterproductive to the dragon age universe. 

I play a game to enjoy myself not to be told how my gender caused the downfall of man and how weak willed it is. 

That said I'll stop the tangent before it becomes a wall of text. 

[c3701]

thatbwoyblu wrote...

Lock Down in 5..4..3..2..1..

Went downhill quick.  Ah well.

[asindre]

BobSmith101 wrote...

"What I think what BW has done is totally dumb. They should have introduced some characters as straight, some as bi and some as gay. It is more realistic than turning all the romance-companions into bi characters"

And then all straight people would complain that there is content they can't access. I think this is the best way because now everyone can try everything.

[Captain Jazz]

Deadmac wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
So what, we should carry obsolete dogma into our videogames?

Russalka wrote...
If that is where your beliefs are from, then honey, you should consider getting in touch with the modern times.

I'm going to let those comments hang for a moment. According to what you both just said, "Dragon Age II" allows the player to practice diverse behavior that is 100% acceptable by society.

You also said that religion is an obsolete philosophy, which has no basis for existing in modern times.

Both of those statement are wrong.

Are you trying to bring theological debate into this? As much fun as it is to tear religion apart... it's really not relevant to the topic and will only end in the following comments:
"YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL!"
"Bah, grow up godbotherer."
"LOCKED"

Please don't go there.

[Dr. Stephen J. Krune III]

Blastback wrote...

Dr. Stephen J. Krune III wrote...
 I really truly wish they could be forced to live with homosexuals, and possibly have sex with them.

Dude, that is not cool.  Tolerance of other people's beliefs and lifestyels ultimatly has to go both ways. 

I once felt this way as well. I believed that if heterosexuals were merely forced to learn about homosexuals through television and video games, they would be cured of their homophobia. But it seems there are now more homophobes than ever, such that I had to go to my son's school and inform them that it was NOT OKAY to condemn his sexuality (which I had told him it was okay to express). You and I both know if he had expressed "straight" sexuality, no one would have said a thing about it, but his "effeminate" and "aggressive" behavior was unacceptable to the school administration--because of bigotry.

I am not saying he should be allowed to expose his body (although what children do in private is their own business), but to demonize an innocent comment like "Im gay" inspires absolute rage in me. They took a sweet, innocent declaration of sexuality and made it seem like a perversion. This will keep happening until we push back by requiring homosexuals to be represented everywhere so that homophobes learn to deal with it through repetition. This is something I have tried at my workplace, and in my experience explosure to "flamboyant" homosexuals reduces homophobia almost to nothing (indeed some of the homophobes came out as homosexuals later, when we instituted our "diversity raises"). We now call our happy hours "gay hours" to take advantage of both meanings of the word and to spread the message of tolerance.

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
Treatment of people based on the content of their character, not their race, beliefs, gender or sexuality is "new age nonsense"?
Because those are my values.

Please, you don't care about tolerance. I am tolerant. What you want is forced approval and special treatment for some over others.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 24 mars 2011 - 11:13 .

[Galad22]

ReconTeam wrote...

The same values we had in the 20th century? Your damned right I think they are more valid than whatever new age nonsense you're going to preach to us.

Our new age nonsense?

I like our new age nonsense. At least it means equality and liberty.

Unlike some patriarchal institutions and their outdated teachings that I could mention.

[Russalka]

Deadmac wrote...

When it comes to the topic at hand, I think discriminating against anyone is a horrible idea. If BioWare is going to give homosexuals (gay and lesbians) options, they should also accommodate heterosexuals with 'on and off options' prior t playing th game. Anything else would be an act of discrimination against heterosexuals.

Do gay people discriminate against heterosexuals by merely existing in real life then? Do you think there should be an on/off button for homosexual preferences as  well? 

[Captain Jazz]

moilami wrote...

I aks why you gay and bi people have to attack very aggressively on heteros who has done nothing to you. You have done it to me, you did it to OP here, and I have seen you doing it to other people too.

Can you please stop ad hominem attacks and focus on what the person has asked.

The OP asked for hetero romance. Why you begun to attack him?

My boyHawke is in a romance with Merrill.... so... how do you define hetero romance?

[moilami]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issues isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character to be bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPC in male/female relationships and we don't se homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to me aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

Actually, all of those information is explicitly stated in DA:O lore if you would just look it up. Also if you had romanced Zevran back in the day he too would have commented on the varying DA worldviews on this particular issue.

Also I wonder the validity of your statement when you say 'we don't see homosexuality everyday' IRL. Really? What kind of sheltered environment are you living in? B'cuz even when ppl aren't open about it due to social pressure, a fixed and solid 10% of our population will still be primarily gay.

Not to mention bisexuality is actually more realistic than having definitive orientations. Go ask any social scientist and most will tell you that the ******-heterosexual divide is completely arbitrary and socially constructed. Meaning we are ALL potentially bisexual if only the society doesn't intrude on our sexual preferences.

How social scientist can tell that? Are they suddenly experts in biologhy?

[AkiKishi]

asindre wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

"What I think what BW has done is totally dumb. They should have introduced some characters as straight, some as bi and some as gay. It is more realistic than turning all the romance-companions into bi characters"

And then all straight people would complain that there is content they can't access. I think this is the best way because now everyone can try everything.

I never wrote that it's a quote from the OP in response to someone saying he was trying to strip away gay rights or something.

[v_ware]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Or are you stating that values from the 19th century are equally valid today?

The same values we had in the 20th century? Your damned right I think they are more valid than whatever new age nonsense you're going to preach to us.

In the 19th century slaves were widely accepted. So those values are more valid than freedom for everyone no matter sexuality, race, religion?

So straight white male christians are still superior in your eyes?

[mesmerizedish]

ReconTeam wrote...

Please, you don't care about tolerance. I am tolerant. What you want is forced approval and special treatment for some over others.

Not special treatment, just the same treatment.

[Russalka]

ReconTeam wrote...
Please, you don't care about tolerance. I am tolerant. What you want is forced approval and special treatment for some over others.

Making them all bisexual is not special treatment, it is equality. It is a personal choice in the game, if one wishes to pursue them. They can be love interests to hetero-, bi- and homosexual people. Why is this a problem?