2875 réponses à ce sujet

[v_ware]

JohnEpler wrote...
Perhaps you missed my rather pointed warning a few pages ago to cut out the religion bashing.

It's okay! It's a rather fast-moving thread, so you could have quite easily have missed it.

This has been brewing for a long time on the forum. This explosive thread was on the way. And David Gaiders (might I add awesome) comment threw oil on the fire.

I really hope you don't change your opinion on the way you put romance in your games because of this.

Modifié par v_ware, 24 mars 2011 - 11:51 .

[asindre]

Deadmac wrote...

asindre wrote...

Deadmac wrote...

Even though I have strong belief systems against 'the act of homosexuality', I do not have a problem with the person themselves. If someone told me about this before I bought the game, the only person I have to blame is myself.

Its that simple.

there are gay people in DAO, why would you assume there weren't in DA2?

When you play "Dragon Age: Origins", the sexuality of most of your characters can be easily resolved. Since I didn't do any research, I didn't know the content was in the game.

Also, I have yet to buy "Dragon Age II", for I wanted to get more information about the game. Now I know.

Then just don't buy the game. In your own words " its that simple".

[Vicious]

Do what I do.

Stay out of videogame romances.

They are serious business.

[moilami]

Blacklash93 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

moilami wrote...

I aks why you gay and bi people have to attack very aggressively on heteros who has done nothing to you. You have done it to me, you did it to OP here, and I have seen you doing it to other people too.

Can you please stop ad hominem attacks and focus on what the person has asked.

The OP asked for hetero romance. Why you begun to attack him?

My boyHawke is in a romance with Merrill.... so... how do you define hetero romance?

It would be something like Alistair & Femwarden. Consistent in all playthoughs. Merrill appears to be bi-curious?

You're always getting a hetero romance if it's between two members of the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with orientation in itself.

What the crowd demanding "straight" romances want is exclusivity.

There is confusion here between romance and sexual orientation. The romances are what they are, that is they are defined by the gender of the participants.

But sexual orientation is not that simple. Merrill is bi-curious, that is proven. However Alistair can be bi-curious too. There just is no proof of it. It is like a couple next door. Either one of them can be bi-curious even if they live in heterosexual relationship.

[Siansonea]

That was a cool article. I was happy to see such a reasonable yet non-placating response.

[The Angry One]

Vicious wrote...

Do what I do.

Stay out of videogame romances.

They are serious business.

And not have my Merril and Fenris?
Never!

[moilami]

Vicious wrote...

Do what I do.

Stay out of videogame romances.

They are serious business.

Lol, would had never guessed how serious they are.

Sex Cards in the Witcher are good simple collectables.

[The Angry One]

Siansonea II wrote...

That was a cool article. I was happy to see such a reasonable yet non-placating response.

Gaider has never been one to mince words.
He once verbally slammed me pretty well while being perfectly reasoned about it, you have to respect that.

[Blastback]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

I think all of this could've been avoided, if the option was that Anders didn't gain rival points if you shot him down.

I'm fine with them being in the game, I don't use them myself but I must say that when Anders came on to me, I had the option of Flirt/Flirt/NO(+15 Rivalry).

If there were no Rivalry gain, I'd of been fine with this, it just narcked me a bit having to suffer for my orientation.

Rivalry points aren't a punishment. You're only "suffering" in your own mind.

Since some people don't recieve any standing change and some people recieve friendship points, my guess is that the rejection itself is not the chief determinant at work.

Well, yes, and no.  I'm building a friendship with Anders and suddenly he comes on to me.  I turn him down.  He gets his feelings hurt, and the friendship score drops.  If a player was delibratly trying to raise the friendship score, then yeah that kind of is a penelty.

My problem on the other hand is that he gets his feelings hurt by me.  And thus I felt like a jerk.  I'm overly sensetive like that.

[City6]

The Angry One wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

That was a cool article. I was happy to see such a reasonable yet non-placating response.

Gaider has never been one to mince words.
He once verbally slammed me pretty well while being perfectly reasoned about it, you have to respect that.

To be fair, he is a professional writer....

[Captain Jazz]

ReconTeam wrote...

If Bioware were to include only straight romance options you would raise all hell, yet God-forbid that anybody doesn't want to see Bioware waste the effort to appeal to such self-centered consumers like yourself.

1) You are acting as if Bioware is including only gay romance options and forcing them on you.
2) As has been pointed out by a member of Bioware's staff and several others several times in this thread, making a romance that already exists accessible by all is barely any work at all. Would you complain so vehemently about the installation of dimmer switches for a fully wired lighting system because of the "waste" involved in the effort?

[The Angry One]

City6 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

That was a cool article. I was happy to see such a reasonable yet non-placating response.

Gaider has never been one to mince words.
He once verbally slammed me pretty well while being perfectly reasoned about it, you have to respect that.

To be fair, he is a professional writer....

True but some writers can still just run around trolling and making no point, like a certain lead writer for Morrowind who's name I shan't mention..

[WhiteKnyght]

I wouldn't call it blasting. Its more like he explained his side and defended his work and his choices.

Kudos to Gaider for having the guts to do it.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 24 mars 2011 - 11:57 .

[Mad-Max90]

I didn't miss it I appreciated it, it's just it has this little problem of continuing after you posted, sorry if I sounded like a broken record, and I want to tell you I really do appreciate your warning it does mean a lot to me, it's just you know how it goes people don't listen to rules nowadays.
P.S. Thank you Mr. JohnEpler

[Blastback]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

I wouldn't call it blasting. Its more like he explained his side and defended his work and his choices.

Kudos to Gaider for having the guts to do it.

Yeah, I didn't see anything in his response to warrent that kind of charged phrasing.  It was firm, but not heavy handed.

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
You never answered why simply denying Anders isn't enough for you.

What's "enough" doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

If my morality includes equal rights for women and bisexuals regardless of belief and yours doesn't, then mine is better.

No it isn't. In fact I support equal rights and my country already provides those. But when your idea of "rights" goes into forcing companies to include gay romance options if they includes straight ones, something is seriously wrong.

Again, being treated equally is to be treated differently?

Except it isn't equally, you want to be treated specially. You're demanding representation else (insert group here) is guility of some imagined offense. Games don't need quotas.

And your argument makes no sense. Are heterosexual relationships being excluded? No. You have no point, you are simply making posts full of hostile rambling.

My point is that Bioware shouldn't have wasted the effort on such a selfish bunch, that making everybody bisexual degrades the quality of the game, and you're not entitled to anything.

By the way, Mass Effect 2 had no lesbian romances on release (no, what's-her-face dancer girl doesn't count) and still has no gay romances.
I dealt with it, yo.

Good then. But don't go crying about how Bioware is discriminating or anything like that.

[The Angry One]

Captain Jazz wrote...

2) As has been pointed out by a member of Bioware's staff and several others several times in this thread, making a romance that already exists accessible by all is barely any work at all. Would you complain so vehemently about the installation of dimmer switches for a fully wired lighting system because of the "waste" involved in the effort?

You know what's really funny? If they follow the Mass Effect VA method, and they probably do. Voices for gender specific LI lines are recorded either way.
For example, both Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer recorded lines for same-sex LIs that are not in the game but are in the data. This is done because they read off identical scripts for easier editing purposes.. or something.

So it's even less work than you think!

[Most Definitely Sane]

Blastback wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

I wouldn't call it blasting. Its more like he explained his side and defended his work and his choices.

Kudos to Gaider for having the guts to do it.

Yeah, I didn't see anything in his response to warrent that kind of charged phrasing.  It was firm, but not heavy handed.

And totally awesome.

[Ryzaki]

Blastback wrote...
Well, yes, and no.  I'm building a friendship with Anders and suddenly he comes on to me.  I turn him down.  He gets his feelings hurt, and the friendship score drops.  If a player was delibratly trying to raise the friendship score, then yeah that kind of is a penelty.

My problem on the other hand is that he gets his feelings hurt by me.  And thus I felt like a jerk.  I'm overly sensetive like that.

Then you should know Blastback that Anders is jealous, clingy and always smitten with Hawke. So of course he was going to be bitter about you turning him down. 

PS. You can avoid that by picking the snarky/aggressive options instead of being Mr. Nice Guy. 
Someone apparently wants Mr. Nice Guy for once. 

[winterborn_89]

The overt homosexuality in DA2 is distracting but it's hardly on my list of the many things wrong about this failed game.

[Russalka]

ReconTeam wrote...

No it isn't. In fact I support equal rights and my country already provides those. But when your idea of "rights" goes into forcing companies to include gay romance options if they includes straight ones, something is seriously wrong.

I really doubt Bioware was forced into anything.

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

What's "enough" doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

Because?

No it isn't. In fact I support equal rights and my country already provides those. But when your idea of "rights" goes into forcing companies to include gay romance options if they includes straight ones, something is seriously wrong.

Nobody forced anyone.

Except it isn't equally, you want to be treated specially. You're demanding representation else (insert group here) is guility of some imagined offense. Games don't need quotas.

Isn't that what you're doing? You're demanding a feature just for you, or people like me and BioWare itself are guilty of oppressing you.

My point is that Bioware shouldn't have wasted the effort on such a selfish bunch, that making everybody bisexual degrades the quality of the game, and you're not entitled to anything.

It is not a waste. Many enjoy it. You don't. Therefore it's a waste?
It degrades it in your opinion. As to why you have that opinion I'll leave for everyone to decide.

Good then. But don't go crying about how Bioware is discriminating or anything like that.

Dude I'm not the one crying here.

[mesmerizedish]

Russalka wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

No it isn't. In fact I support equal rights and my country already provides those. But when your idea of "rights" goes into forcing companies to include gay romance options if they includes straight ones, something is seriously wrong.

I really doubt Bioware was forced into anything.

Indeed. I visited Mr. Gaider in Maria Caliban's basement. He was very well taken care of. The ties didn't even leave rub-burns on his wrists.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Vicious wrote...

Do what I do.

Stay out of videogame romances.

They are serious business.

rofl

*also at topic

whats the big deal just grow some balls and deal with it!

Who cares if they blast you seriously you guys act like you've never been properly punched in the face before

[Sabariel]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

It's not easy to avoid them with the faulty dialogue wheel design though. I'm not easily offended with such matters but the dialogue wheel does lead to some pretty easy flaws in the gameplay that end up with a character flirting or even shacking up with some NPCs. I laugh, shake my head and reload but some people who are offended by such things might be upset.

...Don't pick the giant glowing hearts. How is that "not easy"?

I don't know...sometimes my faith in human intelligence plummets. 

I mean...there's a massive goldenish heart. 

How do you miss that? 

Hey now, don't go around implying I am stupid, that isn't very nice. It lowers my faith in human benevolence.


DA 2, from portions I played, had alot of dialogue wheel ambiguities where characters reacted in bizarre ways that were not indicated either by icons or the sometimes inaccurate paraphrasing. I have also heard from other players of this. I have nothing against same sex romances between characters and was just trying to play devils advocate for people who might end up being forced into such scenarios where the dialogue wheel fails. Creating a strawman arguement out of misinterpretation and labeling me as stupid won't win your arguements for you and it's not very nice.

You cannot be forced into a relationship in DA2, "ghey" or "strayt", unless you pick one too many glowing hearts. That is the player's fault, not the dialogue wheel's.

1Nosphorus1 wrote...

I think all of this could've been avoided, if the option was that Anders didn't gain rival points if you shot him down.

I'm
fine with them being in the game, I don't use them myself but I must
say that when Anders came on to me, I had the option of
Flirt/Flirt/NO(+15 Rivalry).

If there were no Rivalry gain, I'd of been fine with this, it just narcked me a bit having to suffer for my orientation.

You're not "suffering because of your orientation". Anders doesn't take
rejection well no matter what gender or sexual orientation your Hawke
is. It's not "OMG HE'S NOT GAY! FAIL!" it's "OMG! HE REJECTED ME! FAIL!"

However, if you don't want rivlary points (not a big deal anyway since you can gain friend points back pretty easily) pick the "neutral heart" (middle slot). Don't pick any hearts after that. I've done this with both a female and male Hawke. No rivalry gain, no ghey relationship will happen. Both female and male Hawke were friends with Anders.  Get out the confetti and balloons.

Modifié par Sabariel, 25 mars 2011 - 12:12 .