2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Jazz]

Monsteroids wrote...

When does it end?

Half way to Antiva on a ship stuffed with golden monkeys.

[AkiKishi]

Monsteroids wrote...

It's funny that you would like the personality of a character changed for your own gameplay benefit. The -15 comes because that's how Anders is. Needy, impulsive, and kind of campy.

The objection I have is that I don't want Anders near me. But he's forced in because he's part of the story and he has the best access to healing, in fact in some cases the only access to healing.

Make him more optional like Zevran was and people will care less what his sexual orientation is.

[mesmerizedish]

JohnEpler wrote...

To echo the statement David made, it's very easy to see it as 'demanding' when you are not a member of the particular group in question. Privilege is a real thing, and it's quite easy (and I say this as a member of the dominant privileged group) to see people requesting that they are represented equally as 'oh, they're -demanding- special treatment. -I- never demand special treatment.' And of course, that misses the fact that you don't have to demand special treatment because you are already the majority group.

I don't see a request that a particular group be represented fairly as anyone 'demanding' anything. Not every product is going to contain that sort of content, that's true, and sometimes that's due to the demands of the narrative or product in question, but that still shouldn't stop them from requesting a more equal representation in popular media. Because, really, they aren't represented in such, not nearly to the extent that other groups are.

It's not entitlement or demanding, it's merely a wish that the creators of such content acknowledge that they exist, and that there are more people playing their games than the prevailing demographic. I can go to any number of games out there and find a protagonist who I can easily identify with because they are of the same gender, nationality and sexual orientation as I am. Why shouldn't they be allowed to ask for that same opportunity without being accused of pushing anything on anyone?

I love you guys

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
Yes, some people make threads where they express the desire to see more bisexual options in ME2.
So what? Why do they not have the right to speak their mind on that? You're certainly expressing your right to speak your mind - the difference is you just want to pretend something doesn't exist because it bothers you that much.

You also fail to consider that BioWare added 4 bisexual romances not because of pressure, not because of threads asking why Alistair isn't bi but because it was appropriate given the characters involved.
You assume it's because of political correctness and "guilt". That doesn't make it so.

Why is it a bad option again? You say the ability to reject Anders should be enough, but why is it wrong for the player to avoid the issue entirely at the start of the game by selecting his "sexuality."

Except it wasn't appropriate unless you premume Alistair and everybody else are just 2D cardboard cut-outs to be bent to the Warden's will.

[Sabariel]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I have a feeling that the characters were like the maps, recycled. Therefore in one playthough you can be straight, the next bi, the next gay, etc. The only problem I had w/ it was (I played LadyHawke) was that her response to Anders' come on was - yes, yes, go to hell. I would have preferred a middle ground, like we got w/ Fenris. Anders could still blow up at her just for the lack of interest. That actually would have been cool. Other than that, I had no real problem w/ it.

Problem solved:

However, if you don't want rivlary points (not a big deal anyway since you can gain friend points back pretty easily) /or to not sound like a dick, pick the "neutral  heart" (middle slot). Don't pick any hearts after that. I've done this with both a female and male Hawke. No rivalry gain, no ghey (or straight) relationship will happen. Both female and male Hawke were friends with  Anders.  Get out the confetti and balloons.

[City6]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Monsteroids wrote...

It's funny that you would like the personality of a character changed for your own gameplay benefit. The -15 comes because that's how Anders is. Needy, impulsive, and kind of campy.

The objection I have is that I don't want Anders near me. But he's forced in because he's part of the story and he has the best access to healing, in fact in some cases the only access to healing.

Make him more optional like Zevran was and people will care less what his sexual orientation is.

Wait, you don't "want Anders near you" because if you're a male Hawke, he's gay, even though that has all of two lines impact on the game if you don't persue it?

Why on earth would Bioware want to tailor games to that sort of out and out bigotry?

They won't ever be like that, so I guess you'll need to find yourselves a new publisher.

[Onyx Jaguar]

One can only hope

and I hope this comment arrives in the place it is intended

[mesmerizedish]

ReconTeam wrote...

Why is it a bad option again? You say the ability to reject Anders should be enough, but why is it wrong for the player to avoid the issue entirely at the start of the game by selecting his "sexuality."

Except it wasn't appropriate unless you premume Alistair and everybody else are just 2D cardboard cut-outs to be bent to the Warden's will.

Well, let's say you do set your sexuality at character creation. How is Anders supposed to know that? You're trying to bend him to your will, instead of letting him be the bisexual lover-boy that he is.

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

Why is it a bad option again? You say the ability to reject Anders should be enough, but why is it wrong for the player to avoid the issue entirely at the start of the game by selecting his "sexuality."

Except it wasn't appropriate unless you premume Alistair and everybody else are just 2D cardboard cut-outs to be bent to the Warden's will.

I'm not sure what your second statement is referring to, it actually appears to contradict the first.
Aren't you in a way asking for Anders' character to bend to your will? He is a needy character who wants companionship. It turns out gender isn't an issue in that need.
Yet you want a button to turn that off, to shut off his desires because you say so.

Modifié par The Angry One, 25 mars 2011 - 12:23 .

[Russalka]

Turning off any sexuality would be like turning off skin colour or an entire gender.

[Dr. Stephen J. Krune III]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Monsteroids wrote...

It's funny that you would like the personality of a character changed for your own gameplay benefit. The -15 comes because that's how Anders is. Needy, impulsive, and kind of campy.

The objection I have is that I don't want Anders near me. But he's forced in because he's part of the story and he has the best access to healing, in fact in some cases the only access to healing.

Make him more optional like Zevran was and people will care less what his sexual orientation is.

This is what privilege is all about--thinking you can have certain types of people not be near you. For some it is blacks, for others it is Jews, for you apparently it is flamboyant homosexuals. You should be forced to have sex with one in my opinion. Only then will you understand that homosexuality is a perfectly normal expression of love (as I have told the parents of my son's friend).

[Sabariel]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Yes, some people make threads where they express the desire to see more bisexual options in ME2.
So what? Why do they not have the right to speak their mind on that? You're certainly expressing your right to speak your mind - the difference is you just want to pretend something doesn't exist because it bothers you that much.

You also fail to consider that BioWare added 4 bisexual romances not because of pressure, not because of threads asking why Alistair isn't bi but because it was appropriate given the characters involved.
You assume it's because of political correctness and "guilt". That doesn't make it so.

Why is it a bad option again? You say the ability to reject Anders should be enough, but why is it wrong for the player to avoid the issue entirely at the start of the game by selecting his "sexuality."

Except it wasn't appropriate unless you premume Alistair and everybody else are just 2D cardboard cut-outs to be bent to the Warden's will.

...You can avoid the situation by turning him down (or just never talking to him in the first place) then leaving him at his clinic. Amazing!

[Captain Crash]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

To echo the statement David made, it's very easy to see it as 'demanding' when you are not a member of the particular group in question. Privilege is a real thing, and it's quite easy (and I say this as a member of the dominant privileged group) to see people requesting that they are represented equally as 'oh, they're -demanding- special treatment. -I- never demand special treatment.' And of course, that misses the fact that you don't have to demand special treatment because you are already the majority group.

I don't see a request that a particular group be represented fairly as anyone 'demanding' anything. Not every product is going to contain that sort of content, that's true, and sometimes that's due to the demands of the narrative or product in question, but that still shouldn't stop them from requesting a more equal representation in popular media. Because, really, they aren't represented in such, not nearly to the extent that other groups are.

It's not entitlement or demanding, it's merely a wish that the creators of such content acknowledge that they exist, and that there are more people playing their games than the prevailing demographic. I can go to any number of games out there and find a protagonist who I can easily identify with because they are of the same gender, nationality and sexual orientation as I am. Why shouldn't they be allowed to ask for that same opportunity without being accused of pushing anything on anyone?

I love you guys

Ditto!  :happy:

Cant add to it.... I can only smile that the Developers have taken this positive forward move. Its a big smile too!  

[The Angry One]

mrsph wrote...

You people have literally never been hit on by someone of the same sex at least once in your life?

No, but when I was born I didn't hit the button that said "no same-sex romances".

Modifié par The Angry One, 25 mars 2011 - 12:23 .

[AkiKishi]

City6 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Monsteroids wrote...

It's funny that you would like the personality of a character changed for your own gameplay benefit. The -15 comes because that's how Anders is. Needy, impulsive, and kind of campy.

The objection I have is that I don't want Anders near me. But he's forced in because he's part of the story and he has the best access to healing, in fact in some cases the only access to healing.

Make him more optional like Zevran was and people will care less what his sexual orientation is.

Wait, you don't "want Anders near you" because if you're a male Hawke, he's gay, even though that has all of two lines impact on the game if you don't persue it?

Why on earth would Bioware want to tailor games to that sort of out and out bigotry?

They won't ever be like that, so I guess you'll need to find yourselves a new publisher.

I don't like Anders. I don't like his flirting, his politics or his fanatasism, I'm less than keen on him being possesed as well.

He's just all round not the sort of person I want to hang out with and he's forced on me because he's a story character and the only healer.

[termokanden]

What I don't understand is the following, and it's something I see very often in real life and something I think has surfaced a few times in this thread. People claim they are not homophobic and yet seem deeply disturbed by the mere mention of homosexuality.

There's just something about this that doesn't quite add up. If you are not really opposed to it, why is it such a big deal to just not click the heart in that conversation with Anders and just move on with the game?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Dr. Stephen J. Krune III wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Monsteroids wrote...

It's funny that you would like the personality of a character changed for your own gameplay benefit. The -15 comes because that's how Anders is. Needy, impulsive, and kind of campy.

The objection I have is that I don't want Anders near me. But he's forced in because he's part of the story and he has the best access to healing, in fact in some cases the only access to healing.

Make him more optional like Zevran was and people will care less what his sexual orientation is.

This is what privilege is all about--thinking you can have certain types of people not be near you. For some it is blacks, for others it is Jews, for you apparently it is flamboyant homosexuals. You should be forced to have sex with one in my opinion. Only then will you understand that homosexuality is a perfectly normal expression of love (as I have told the parents of my son's friend).

This made my day

Made my week

Made my year!

No not my year, Roclock made my year.  But it is close!  Damn close!

[Ryzaki]

You don't want Anders bi self near you? Leave him at the clinic.

Otherwise do what everyone else does. Ignore it or deal.

You want his healing abilities? Take him along he's not going to try to molest you while in combat.
I didn't want take a rogue but I wanted to disarm traps. Guess what I did?I rolled a rogue. 

Roll a mage and play SH yourself then. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2011 - 12:27 .

[NeroSparda]

mrsph wrote...

You people have literally never been hit on by someone of the same sex at least once in your life?

My bottom had been grabbed unexpectly, and I have been hit on by another person of the same sex (making it two). I find it annoying that some people think it is a good idea to have a toggle for such a thing. Then again, there is a toggle for gore, but that one does not have an effect on the story nor the characters' personality. I will go back to lurking.

[Monsteroids]

What about hardening? That changed the social behaviors, beliefs, and overall outlook of a character.
Most interactions with companions consist of finding what buttons will make them endeared to you anyways.

What about the fact that it's a video game with a precisely escapist fantasy plot?

What about casting a good net to please people of a wide range of fantasy, sexuality, and personality interests?

Not valid? Alright.
It's clearly just a Gay/Straight battle now.

Modifié par Monsteroids, 25 mars 2011 - 12:25 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
Don't
be obtuse. Explain why you must completely eliminate even the very
concept of bisexuality from the game world to be comfortable.

How many times must I repeat myself? Becaues it is easier to suspend my disbelief when people don't just presume Hawke wants to sleep with them.

I oppose it because you already have the option, what you want is over the top.

All of the LIs being bisexual was over-the-top, this isn't.

So don't declare it as such.

Stop claiming you have the moral high ground and I may.

I didn't say that now, did I.
The fact is you present no logical reason as to why it degrades anything, and you have recieved multiple explanations as to why it's perfectly reasonable for these 4 characters to be bi.

It is pretty obvious what you meant there, and I don't find explanations for how every LI just happened to be a bisexual very convincing. Is Bioware supposed to come up with similar absurd scenarios for all of their future games now?

I say any option that exists to completely remove the idea from the game is suspect at least, when you can simply rebuke Anders once and move on. Again, why is that such a problem?

And why should I care if you think it suspect? As I said it is easier to suspend my disbelief when people of both sexes don't just presume Hawke wants to sleep with them.

[The Angry One]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I don't like Anders. I don't like his flirting, his politics or his fanatasism, I'm less than keen on him being possesed as well.

He's just all round not the sort of person I want to hang out with and he's forced on me because he's a story character and the only healer.

Yeah and I wasn't particularily fond of Justice, but he still had to be my tank. So what? 

[Onyx Jaguar]

You don't really even need a healing mage in DA 2. You've got money buy some elfroot and restoration potions damnit

Regroup is only necessary on the optional bosses

[Inquisitor Recon]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Well, let's say you do set your sexuality at character creation. How is Anders supposed to know that? You're trying to bend him to your will, instead of letting him be the bisexual lover-boy that he is.

I find it difficult to believe that all of these characters were intended to be bisexual lover-boys/girls to begin with.