2875 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Who has not revealed any of the aforementioned info, but instead just engaged in romantic dialog, so that from Hawke's perspective (non-meta), Hawke can only assume that the LI is either heterosexual or homosexual, with no other information to conclude that the LI is bisexual?

Hawke knows that Isabela is bisexual and that Fenris enjoys women. Beyond that, Hawke knows that they all enjoy Hawke.

[AngelicMachinery]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Do I mind straight romances? No.

Do I mind gay romances? No.

Do I mind bi romances? No.

Do I think characters are more compelling if they have a specific orientation that doesn't always align with the PC's? An orientation that could be shared, discussed, challenged, changed or be an interesting backstory/persona point?

Hell yes.

I think the way DA2 did it wasn't optimal from an RP perspective, but people clamoured for Bioware to have future LIs available regardless of gender...and apparently they got their wish. So congratulations, I guess.

Thanks!

[c3701]

Rasanaa wrote...

About the complaints of companions hitting on same-sex players....really? You can't be that insecure, right? Its a game. Get over it. And to go through your entire life without being flirted with (even lightly) by a same sex person that you just met or have known for a bit? Really? Its going to happen unless you live in a cave. Just take it as a compliment and move on. Same thing in the game. They are interested in you. Smile and move on.

It's funny how because this doesn't mean anything to you, it is insignificant and I must be "insecure" (something one should not be).  Yet something like a, most likely easily implemented, option, which I find insignificant, gets the majority of people in this thread "up-in-arms" over.  How does that work?
Option = bigot, homophobe, gay hater. 
No option = get over it, it's just a game you insecure wuss.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I would appreciate it if someone that has gone through the dialog wheels would answer a few questions.

Concerning romantic dialog, who has revealed to the protagonist what their sexual preference is, by either coming out and saying "I am bisexual" for example, or having told the protagonist something about their personal history that would indicate what their preference is?

Who has not revealed any of the aforementioned info, but instead just engaged in romantic dialog, so that from Hawke's perspective (non-meta), Hawke can only assume that the LI is either heterosexual or homosexual, with no other information to conclude that the LI is bisexual?

Anders will say he had a male lover, but ONLY only if the PC is male. Females never get it.

Zevran in DA:O will candidly talk about his 'adventures' with male and female partners regardless of the PC's gender, though he phrases it slightly differently for each. He will also admit his preference is for women, but he 'knows what he is' and would happily be with a man if he wished it. He can also imply Taliesen was his lover later in the game, again to both genders of PC.

Leliana in DA:O isn't as open about the topic, but regardless of gender admits she was in love with her mentor Marjolaine.

If it was DA2, I get the feeling only female PCs would hear Leliana's confession, and Zevran would tell whichever gender the PC is that he prefers theirs--and only males would hear about Taliesen.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 25 mars 2011 - 02:56 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Thanks!

For what? Shallower characters? You're welcome?

[AngelicMachinery]

The idea of not telling a partner your SO isn't horribly alien... if you're bi. But, it is kind of wonky how they worked it out.

[Vormaerin]

BobSmith101 wrote...

You also have the right not to hang out with people you don't like. The problem with Anders is they made him a key part of the game by giving him the best healing powers.

.

That's a problem with your game play skills.  I completed the game on Hard and I never had Anders in the party except for the mandatory quests.  I refused to help him in his final quest after he wouldn't tell me what the ingredients were really for.  And I executed him at the point where I found out.    So he is entirely optional. 

He's also gay or bi by nature, since he tells you about his gay lover if you bother to listen to him.   So even if you had the characters with "fixed" sexuality, he'd still be gay.  And he's still be an immature, emotional twit who gets whiny after you reject his clumsy advances.   The only difference is the chicks probably wouldn't have to turn him down.

[mesmerizedish]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Who has not revealed any of the aforementioned info, but instead just engaged in romantic dialog, so that from Hawke's perspective (non-meta), Hawke can only assume that the LI is either heterosexual or homosexual, with no other information to conclude that the LI is bisexual?

Hawke knows that Isabela is bisexual and that Fenris enjoys women. Beyond that, Hawke knows that they all enjoy Hawke.

Is this Female Hawke we're talking about? 

Any Hawke. dudeHawke knows that Anders has a history with men, as well.

[StickinItInTheChicken]

This is the EXACT reason why this game sucks. Because they added gay people. Thanks alot for ruining a franchise for me

[wulfsturm]

StickinItInTheChicken wrote...

This is the EXACT reason why this game sucks. Because they added gay people. Thanks alot for ruining a franchise for me

This man knows what he's talking about.

[mesmerizedish]

Only female characters can romance Sebastian, though several writers have said on several occasions that he's not really a romance at all. Anyway, let me try and list it out so I can organize my thoughts better

dudeHawke knows:
Isabela likes men and women
Fenris likes men and women (Fenris hooks up with Isabela)
Anders likes men
Merrill likes men

Lady Hawke knows:
Isabela likes men and women
Fenris likes women
Anders likes women (he doesn't talk about how Karl was his lover with Lady Hawke; that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but this is about what Hawke actually knows)
Merrill likes women

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 25 mars 2011 - 03:39 .

[Ryzaki]

How does lady Hawke know Fen likes men? Fenris never says any preferences other than sleeping with Izzy.
Edit: NVM you edited. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2011 - 03:41 .

[AngelicMachinery]

StickinItInTheChicken wrote...

This is the EXACT reason why this game sucks. Because they added gay people. Thanks alot for ruining a franchise for me

[Ryzaki]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Thanks!

For what? Shallower characters? You're welcome?

Can't tell if saracasm

If it's not the characters aren't any shallower than in DAO. Frankly I find Anders easily on par with Morrigan (and slightly less irritating).

[mesmerizedish]

Ryzaki wrote...

How does lady Hawke know Fen likes men? Fenris never says any preferences other than sleeping with Izzy.
Edit: NVM you edited. 

It was copy/pasted from dudeHawke's. I didn't realize the mistake until I read it back after I had already posted >.<

[Athro]

I find it hilarious how many people have this mistaken notion that sexuality is so defining of a character's personality.

Some people do define their personality based on their sexuality - but most people don't. To the point that most people could be gay, straight or bi and you wouldn't know until they told you. Which is what Bioware have done in DA2.

Saying that it makes the character more shallow just goes to show how little these people know about writing or characters in general. Most writers do not think about a character's sexuality unless it matters to their story. Many writers have even surprised themselves when they finally got around to asking the question to realise that the character may have been a different sexuality than initially intended.

Sexuality is a fluid concept, not a fixed tick box. And making the characters Hawke-sexual makes sense from a game perspective because it fits with the story being told that if the protagonist is attracted to a character, then that character is likely to be attracted to the protagonist - because a writer wouldn't make the love interest be someone who says no.

But because the writers can't know who the player is going to try to romance - the best solution is to write romance storylines for all the love interests and alter the story to suit the genders involved.

Fenris as the gay lover has a different storyline to Fenris as the straight lover - doesn't make his character any less of a person than if he had been only one sexuality.

It wouldn't surprise me if a number of the people claiming "it's shallow characterisation" actually know a few people whose sexuality is something other than they think it is. Sexuality is rarely as cut and dry as some want it to be.

C.

[EccentricSage]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

I would appreciate it if someone that has gone through the dialog wheels would answer a few questions.

Concerning romantic dialog, who has revealed to the protagonist what their sexual preference is, by either coming out and saying "I am bisexual" for example, or having told the protagonist something about their personal history that would indicate what their preference is?

Who has not revealed any of the aforementioned info, but instead just engaged in romantic dialog, so that from Hawke's perspective (non-meta), Hawke can only assume that the LI is either heterosexual or homosexual, with no other information to conclude that the LI is bisexual?

Anders will say he had a male lover, but ONLY only if the PC is male. Females never get it.

Zevran in DA:O will candidly talk about his 'adventures' with male and female partners regardless of the PC's gender, though he phrases it slightly differently for each. He will also admit his preference is for women, but he 'knows what he is' and would happily be with a man if he wished it. He can also imply Taliesen was his lover later in the game, again to both genders of PC.

Leliana in DA:O isn't as open about the topic, but regardless of gender admits she was in love with her mentor Marjolaine.

If it was DA2, I get the feeling only female PCs would hear Leliana's confession, and Zevran would tell whichever gender the PC is that he prefers theirs--and only males would hear about Taliesen.

Exactly.  This is what I find unfortunate about the new romance system.  In origins, a character's sexuality was a part of who they are, and made them more real, and your Warden could not change that, just react to it.  With DA:2, I think you loose some of the depth and realism because the characters revolve around suiting hawk.

I do applaud Gaider for doing what he can to make the game inclusive, though.  He's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to game mechanics.  He ether makes the characters revolve around Hawk so that people can bang, or romance, any romancable character they want, which takes away from the deapty of the character; or he has to choose who will be streight, who will be bi, and who will be gay if they even let him have that many characters be romancable.  I don't blame him for trying this variable concept out.

I also love him for always being on forums, defending his characters, and defending minorities.    Much love for David Gaider.

I hope that in the next game, they can have more than four romance options, and instead of variables, create the characters to be a group of characters with their own complete identities, with representation available for all groups.  I would love to see more than four romancable characters in the future.  Never understood why the game would decide for us that it's not even an option with some of them.  I'd totally romance Varric, for example.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 25 mars 2011 - 04:28 .

[mesmerizedish]

@Athro: I agree. Sexuality can be central to a character (Zevran, for example), but that doesn't have to be the case at all. For DAII, we get Isabela, and three characters for whom it's entirely incidental. That's not weak characterization at all.

[Sharn01]

Deadmac wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Um, define high morals. Thinking someone who is bisexual or gay is somehow wrong or sinning is not morality. That is dogma and prejudice.

Well, according to some people's religous beliefs (and how a parent raises a child), 'the act of homosexuality' is an immoral sin. Even though the person is welcomed blindly, the acts in which they practice behind closed doors is considered a sin to some.

How do you deal with that senerio?

It shouldnt, a persons religious beliefs should not effect my, or anyone elses life style.  If I choose to be a member of that religion, then I am taking it upon myself to follow its tenants, too many people seem to think that their religious beliefs should be forced on others because they are so clearly right.  If you have a religious objection to content in the game I would hope you would simply get through it as quickly as possible and then move onto the rest of the game, the same way you would in reality. 

Why am I even argueing this?  If your religious beliefs are so strong that a cartoon in a game you are controlling cant be present when others make a brief comment acknowledging that they are gay, why in the nine hells are you playing a game with constant killing and murder, demon worship, premarital sex, the list goes on?

[DontStickItThere]

I find it hilarious how many people have this mistaken notion that sexuality is so defining of a character's personality.

I find it retarded that you think it isn't.

To the point that most people could be gay, straight or bi and you wouldn't know until they told you.

Uhmmm... That's not true. You can always spot a fairy. ALWAYS. They may try to hide it or think they look normal, but everybody can tell. I'm assuming your gay which is why you don't know this.

Most writers do not think about a character's sexuality unless it matters to their story.

MOST writers don't even think about it because it's just pretty much understood that the characters are straight unless it's a story about some really ****ed up perverted kids.

Fenris as the gay lover has a different storyline to Fenris as the straight lover - doesn't make his character any less of a person than if he had been only one sexuality.

Yes, it absolutely does. It makes him gay.

[Siansonea]

Reported, please nobody respond to that nonsense.