2875 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

koshiee wrote...

MOB_RULES wrote...

I'm just at a loss for words here.
 
Why isn't the title of this thread:

"Homosexual DA2 Lead writer blasts Homophobic Fan."

if you're allowing lables, why not be fair?

ummm cuz it's not a fact that the DA2 lead writer is homosexual while the fan being homophobic is. 
ohh and way to be rude and homophobic. brava 

In my opinion using that kind of socially loaded labels to insult and attack people is questionable behaviour.

I became homophobic in BioWare "Social" Network where my heterosexuality got attacked, and now I am "not welcome here". I have been PMing with some of those people and they were very aggressive and manipulative towards me. I am very glad they remain in Internet and does not come disturb me IRL.

Note I was not homophobic before BWSN and when I was a teenager and student I worked about two years in a bar which was partially gay bar, and thus saw many gays and never had anything to fear about them. In fact they just ignored me.

[moilami]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

koshiee wrote...

But having said that I'm kind of tired of the bisexual=sexually wild trope.

Slightly off topic here, but I just wanna say I agree =) In a way, I liked that about Leliana, that she didn't follow that trope at all. That's not to say I feel offended by Isabela in any way, in fact I kinda look up to her (as weird as that probably sounds to most people). She lives the good life and isn't afraid of trying to get what she wants, overall very confident and strong. Definitely a strong woman to look up to, to me =)

Good life? A drunkard over compensating is living a good life?

(I should though play the game before I begin to talk about NPCs. So I am just making wild guesses here.)


Edit: Rofl am I the only one who thinks there is much more in life than sex?

Modifié par moilami, 25 mars 2011 - 08:13 .

[AlanC9]

moilami wrote...
I became homophobic in BioWare "Social" Network where my heterosexuality got attacked, and now I am "not welcome here".

How would someone attack your heterosexuality, anyway?

[marshalleck]

Brilliant post by David Gaider. Respect.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Thanks!

For what? Shallower characters? You're welcome?

Can't tell if saracasm

If it's not the characters aren't any shallower than in DAO. Frankly I find Anders easily on par with Morrigan (and slightly less irritating).

Let me put it this way: I prefer it if the characters' orientations make sense to the characters. Making them all hawkesexual (as someone aptly put it) feels like unnecessary fanservice. I like it when characters have preferences and boundaries--and if these can change/remain the same through the course of the game, I like that too. That's characterisation. But having them all boinkable *JUST* to please people on the forums? I think that lacks integrity and demeans the characters (if not the writers--you'd have to ask them how they feel about that).

I seem to recall Gaider saying he'd prefer to have characters 'be what they are' for a reason that's true to them, not so that fangirls/boys could get in bed with them and have squeesex.

Probably one of the reasons I liked Aveline and Varric more than the other characters in this game (in DA:O it was Alistair (because he WON'T jump straight into bed with you as soon as you proposition him, and he IS prepared set you aside to be fair to his future wife) and Zevran (who is frank about his sexuality when asked, and can have his views on love/sex dramatically changed by the end of the game).

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 25 mars 2011 - 08:24 .

[Kidd]

moilami wrote...

Good life? A drunkard over compensating is living a good life?

(I should though play the game before I begin to talk about NPCs. So I am just making wild guesses here.)


Edit: Rofl am I the only one who thinks there is much more in life than sex?

There is much more than sex to life to me too. Isabela also cares about other things, she talks a lot about how much she misses her old life and stuff. But sex is something she cares about a lot, and it's in her mind a lot, and she doesn't give a crap what others may think about it. I think that's very commendable.

[koshiee]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

koshiee wrote...
ummm cuz it's not a fact that the DA2 lead writer is homosexual while the fan being homophobic is. 
ohh and way to be rude and homophobic. 

How?  I didn't see any irrational fear, or aversion, or discrimination towards homosexuals in the op.  Only an opinion that he thinks that Bioware neglected  a demographic.

"I don't think many would argue with the fact that the overwhelming majority of RPG gamers are indeed White. Sure, there are a substantial amount of Black people who play video games, but they're usually gamers who play games like The Sims, rather than games like Dragon Age. That's not to say there isn't a significant number of black people who play Dragon Age and that BioWare should forego the option of playing as a black person altogether, but there should have been much more focus in on making sure us white gamers were happy. "

There's op's opening paragraph. I substituted the word "straight male" for white and "female" for black/black people. I hope that makes op's homphobia more clear. 

Modifié par koshiee, 25 mars 2011 - 08:27 .

[Kidd]

Ouch, now that sounds pretty darn offensive, indeed ^^;

[Artoz96]

You want gay content? Ok, you have Zevran. But if 4 of 4 romanceble NPC's are bi it is not equality and it is not a way to make everyone happy.

Of course I can live with it, more to say same maps all over the game is much more disturbing.

But I really would like Bioware to make good romances like they did in BG. And it is not easy to make 8 DIFFERENT romances so that is why I against bi.

And one more thing, sexuality is really a part of personality. For me Sten from DAO is straight and I cant imagine him being gay, also goes to Morrigan. People, usually, do have sexual preferrence and that is why it is not convincingly when npc's sexuality depends not on who they are, but who you are.

I also noticed someone saying that people who oppose gay relations in game must be forced to gay sex. Man... I would hurt you very much if you ever tried this crap. Be polite, and others will be polite to you.

[Pugnate]

More example of lazy ****. Instead of making certain NPCs that were gay or whatever, they decided that all characters can be gay if you are male and straight if you are female.

What a fine way to reuse dialog.

As for David, it is obvious to me that he is just skirting the issue. Quick, let's spring some guilt on everyone by shouting homophobia, so that people will ignore the game's shortcomings.

How very political.

[koshiee]

Artoz96 wrote...

You want gay content? Ok, you have Zevran. But if 4 of 4 romanceble NPC's are bi it is not equality and it is not a way to make everyone happy.

Of course I can live with it, more to say same maps all over the game is much more disturbing.

But I really would like Bioware to make good romances like they did in BG. And it is not easy to make 8 DIFFERENT romances so that is why I against bi.

And one more thing, sexuality is really a part of personality. For me Sten from DAO is straight and I cant imagine him being gay, also goes to Morrigan. People, usually, do have sexual preferrence and that is why it is not convincingly when npc's sexuality depends not on who they are, but who you are.

I also noticed someone saying that people who oppose gay relations in game must be forced to gay sex. Man... I would hurt you very much if you ever tried this crap. Be polite, and others will be polite to you.

If sten were gay what mandatory changes to his personality would occur? ditto for Morrigan? 

Modifié par koshiee, 25 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[Lord Sullivan]

koshiee wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

koshiee wrote...
ummm cuz it's not a fact that the DA2 lead writer is homosexual while the fan being homophobic is. 
ohh and way to be rude and homophobic. 

How?  I didn't see any irrational fear, or aversion, or discrimination towards homosexuals in the op.  Only an opinion that he thinks that Bioware neglected  a demographic.

"I don't think many would argue with the fact that the overwhelming majority of RPG gamers are indeed White. Sure, there are a substantial amount of Black people who play video games, but they're usually gamers who play games like The Sims, rather than games like Dragon Age. That's not to say there isn't a significant number of black people who play Dragon Age and that BioWare should forego the option of playing as a black person altogether, but there should have been much more focus in on making sure us white gamers were happy. "

There's op's opening paragraph. I substituted the word "straight male" for white and "female" for black/black people. I hope that makes op's homphobia more clear. 

Your interpretation of his/her post makes more clear your heterophobia

[Artoz96]

koshiee wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

koshiee wrote...
ummm cuz it's not a fact that the DA2 lead writer is homosexual while the fan being homophobic is. 
ohh and way to be rude and homophobic. 

How?  I didn't see any irrational fear, or aversion, or discrimination towards homosexuals in the op.  Only an opinion that he thinks that Bioware neglected  a demographic.

"I don't think many would argue with the fact that the overwhelming majority of RPG gamers are indeed White. Sure, there are a substantial amount of Black people who play video games, but they're usually gamers who play games like The Sims, rather than games like Dragon Age. That's not to say there isn't a significant number of black people who play Dragon Age and that BioWare should forego the option of playing as a black person altogether, but there should have been much more focus in on making sure us white gamers were happy. "

There's op's opening paragraph. I substituted the word "straight male" for white and "female" for black/black people. I hope that makes op's homphobia more clear. 

The problem is when he talks about amount of girls and gays playing hardcore games he is right. And there is nothing bad to talk about fact, is it?  So when you are changing words of cousre you change meaning of his word and it is impermissible. He told what he told and nothing more. It is YOURS thoughts about black not his.

[Kidd]

Artoz96 wrote...

You want gay content? Ok, you have Zevran. But if 4 of 4 romanceble NPC's are bi it is not equality and it is not a way to make everyone happy.

How is it not equality to give everyone access to the same content? That should be as equal as it gets, by defintion.

Artoz96 wrote...

And one more thing, sexuality is really a part of personality. For me Sten from DAO is straight and I cant imagine him being gay, also goes to Morrigan.

Why not? Aside from how Morrigan can't be romanced by women and Sten doesn't ever mention liking a man? If there had been but a single line as such added to Sten's talks and Morrigan was made available to female characters, would that break your entire perception of their persona to you? I must say I feel you seem to put a really strong emphasis on sexual orientation here which is quite unnecessary to me. But hey, I'm bisexual, what do I know?

[Bourne Endeavor]

My only complaint is not being able to turn any of them down devoid of a hissy fit and some rivalry points. I would have preferred Hawke by the one to initiated this potential slash romance, hell any romance. This way if the player wants the content it is readily available at the onset of the game. If not, they neglect this choice on the wheel and it vanishes into the abyss. Fortunately, rivalry points are not the end of the world nor is having Anders miffed at you for a moment.

Now if BioWare could render unique clips for slash romances so the animations make sense (FemHawke could not support Isabela's weight.) We would be in business.

[marshalleck]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Brilliant post by David Gaider. Respect.

Although I respect what he said, It's kind of hard for me to respect someone (lead writer) who appears to be colluding with The Escapist for pr.  The Escapist article provides a link, to what looks like an edited replica of the original thread, with just the OP and David Gaider's responses.  I can't help but think that The Escapist was helping out Mr. Gaider here.  Add on top that the fact that The Escapist gave DA2 a 100 rating on metacritic, and was one of the earliest reviews given. 

That link is what happens when you click the little Bioware tag under a thread which has garnered a response from a Bioware employee. It includes only the original post, and all subsequent posts from any forum user with a Bioware tag. It's not trickery, it's merely a message board function. 

If you don't believe me go back to the main page and try it yourself. 

It's useful for people like me who may not care what the rabble are saying, and only want to see what the dev responses are to any given thread.

Modifié par marshalleck, 25 mars 2011 - 08:44 .

[Artoz96]

koshiee wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

You want gay content? Ok, you have Zevran. But if 4 of 4 romanceble NPC's are bi it is not equality and it is not a way to make everyone happy.

Of course I can live with it, more to say same maps all over the game is much more disturbing.

But I really would like Bioware to make good romances like they did in BG. And it is not easy to make 8 DIFFERENT romances so that is why I against bi.

And one more thing, sexuality is really a part of personality. For me Sten from DAO is straight and I cant imagine him being gay, also goes to Morrigan. People, usually, do have sexual preferrence and that is why it is not convincingly when npc's sexuality depends not on who they are, but who you are.

I also noticed someone saying that people who oppose gay relations in game must be forced to gay sex. Man... I would hurt you very much if you ever tried this crap. Be polite, and others will be polite to you.

If sten were gay what mandatory changes to his personality would occur? ditto for Morrigan? 

As I said it is a part of personality. I see that you only notice things you want to notice and not what peole say.  For example Sten is not a very funny person he dont tell jokes or make funny things. Imagine in DA3 he becomes clown. 

Do you undrestand what I mean or you will try to change word "funny" to "black"?

[koshiee]

Artoz96 wrote...

koshiee wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

koshiee wrote...
ummm cuz it's not a fact that the DA2 lead writer is homosexual while the fan being homophobic is. 
ohh and way to be rude and homophobic. 

How?  I didn't see any irrational fear, or aversion, or discrimination towards homosexuals in the op.  Only an opinion that he thinks that Bioware neglected  a demographic.

"I don't think many would argue with the fact that the overwhelming majority of RPG gamers are indeed White. Sure, there are a substantial amount of Black people who play video games, but they're usually gamers who play games like The Sims, rather than games like Dragon Age. That's not to say there isn't a significant number of black people who play Dragon Age and that BioWare should forego the option of playing as a black person altogether, but there should have been much more focus in on making sure us white gamers were happy. "

There's op's opening paragraph. I substituted the word "straight male" for white and "female" for black/black people. I hope that makes op's homphobia more clear. 

The problem is when he talks about amount of girls and gays playing hardcore games he is right. And there is nothing bad to talk about fact, is it?  So when you are changing words of cousre you change meaning of his word and it is impermissible. He told what he told and nothing more. It is YOURS thoughts about black not his.

No op is not right. He is ascribing stereotypes to groups of people and then denigrating them as not as important as the larger group that he is a part of. Also, stereotypes are not facts.  

[AlanC9]

Artoz96 wrote...

koshiee wrote...
"I don't think many would argue with the fact that the overwhelming majority of RPG gamers are indeed White. Sure, there are a substantial amount of Black people who play video games, but they're usually gamers who play games like The Sims, rather than games like Dragon Age. That's not to say there isn't a significant number of black people who play Dragon Age and that BioWare should forego the option of playing as a black person altogether, but there should have been much more focus in on making sure us white gamers were happy. "

There's op's opening paragraph. I substituted the word "straight male" for white and "female" for black/black people. I hope that makes op's homphobia more clear. 

The problem is when he talks about amount of girls and gays playing hardcore games he is right. And there is nothing bad to talk about fact, is it?  So when you are changing words of cousre you change meaning of his word and it is impermissible. He told what he told and nothing more. It is YOURS thoughts about black not his.

The revised version talking about black gamers being a minority is factual as well. (Edit: except for the Sims reference, maybe) It's exactly the same thing except that some folks think racism is less acceptable than homophobia.

I'm not necessarily including you in that category. From your post I'm not able to determine if you'd find koshiee's altered version unacceptable, should someone have posted it for real.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 mars 2011 - 08:44 .

[Kidd]

Artoz96 wrote...

As I said it is a part of personality. I see that you only notice things you want to notice and not what peole say.  For example Sten is not a very funny person he dont tell jokes or make funny things. Imagine in DA3 he becomes clown. 

Of course it's not part of someone's "personality". Sten is a quiet person, not out of shyness but because he feels mindless dravel is mindless dravel. He respects when people know what they want and are firm about it, sometimes even to such an extent he will grow to respect someone whom acts in a way he doesn't understand at all (you get approval points even if you go against his will as long as you're firm and can speak your mind firmly in several instances in the game, a very unique trait to him alone - with others it's more of a cat and mouse game to avoid negative approval).

But that doesn't say anything whether he prefers to bed men or women. Or if he prefers chocolate- or sugar-based candy. I like oranges, myself, and I like chocolate, but I can't stand them put together. But that's hardly part of my "personality", is it? =)

[koshiee]

Artoz96 wrote...

koshiee wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

You want gay content? Ok, you have Zevran. But if 4 of 4 romanceble NPC's are bi it is not equality and it is not a way to make everyone happy.

Of course I can live with it, more to say same maps all over the game is much more disturbing.

But I really would like Bioware to make good romances like they did in BG. And it is not easy to make 8 DIFFERENT romances so that is why I against bi.

And one more thing, sexuality is really a part of personality. For me Sten from DAO is straight and I cant imagine him being gay, also goes to Morrigan. People, usually, do have sexual preferrence and that is why it is not convincingly when npc's sexuality depends not on who they are, but who you are.

I also noticed someone saying that people who oppose gay relations in game must be forced to gay sex. Man... I would hurt you very much if you ever tried this crap. Be polite, and others will be polite to you.

If sten were gay what mandatory changes to his personality would occur? ditto for Morrigan? 

As I said it is a part of personality. I see that you only notice things you want to notice and not what peole say.  For example Sten is not a very funny person he dont tell jokes or make funny things. Imagine in DA3 he becomes clown. 

Do you undrestand what I mean or you will try to change word "funny" to "black"?

You said you can't imagine Sten being gay. Okay. Sten was not romanceable in DAO and never made any mention of romance. So if David Gaider said Sten was gay, what about Sten in DAO would be so different that it is unimaginable to you? 

[moilami]

koshiee wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

koshiee wrote...
ummm cuz it's not a fact that the DA2 lead writer is homosexual while the fan being homophobic is. 
ohh and way to be rude and homophobic. 

How?  I didn't see any irrational fear, or aversion, or discrimination towards homosexuals in the op.  Only an opinion that he thinks that Bioware neglected  a demographic.

"I don't think many would argue with the fact that the overwhelming majority of RPG gamers are indeed White. Sure, there are a substantial amount of Black people who play video games, but they're usually gamers who play games like The Sims, rather than games like Dragon Age. That's not to say there isn't a significant number of black people who play Dragon Age and that BioWare should forego the option of playing as a black person altogether, but there should have been much more focus in on making sure us white gamers were happy. "

There's op's opening paragraph. I substituted the word "straight male" for white and "female" for black/black people. I hope that makes op's homphobia more clear. 

That is one way to twist and obscure what OP said. I could start replacing words too based on whatever agenda and you would get stuff what the OP never said. However I have no need to twist and obscure stuff.

Even if I read that editet version of OPs posting I can only see him wanting the game would be catered for both white and black people and not only black people.

I can't see all the evil in his posting what people here want to see.