2875 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

ms_sunlight wrote...

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

I find the opposite now I'm older I get propositioned by women more. Seems very unfair since I'm very happy with a family.

[Chriagon]

moilami wrote...

chrissicross wrote...

TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain wrote...

Personally I would be rather uncomfortable with a gay male hitting on me, why? Simple, I am not gay.

Just take it as a compliment and say "no thank you". Problem solved.

I have done it. I still felt uncomfortable and disgusted.

And I don't feel it being "compliment" if someone wants to use my exit only tube.


Edit:Compliment would be that they don't try to use my exit tube or anything else but take me as human being.

The compliment is that someone else likes you, not just your exit only tube.

[JediMB]

Artoz96 wrote...

You like all being bi? Ok. But I want a good fantasy game. I dont want to think that this guy that covers me is gay. I cant feel like he is my close friend or brother in arms becouse of he is gay and may think that I am found of him.

I dont against gay characters, it was ok with Zevran cause I could easely avoid him. But in DA2 the only 2h warrior is Fenris and the only healer is Anders.

And you are right we dont have choise in our feelings and that is why I dont want gay to hit on me.

what is this i dont even

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but this is homophobia and prejudice.

Otherwise, you'd have to be uncomfortable with being around female characters that you aren't interested in either, since one apparently can't be a "close friend or sister in arms" if she might possibly have feelings for you.

[PlumPaul93]

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Actually, if I might put my own bi-2 cents in; does it matter if you are hit on by a gay person? Is it not equally repulsive to be hit on by a really unattractive member of the opposite sex? Like, a woman who is dumb as bread and smells bad? Wouldn't that be terrible too? Where is the difference?

I think it comes down to not being attracted at all to the person hitting on you. The mental image of having sex with them makes you go "EEEEWWWW!!!" - and that's the whole issue. Or am I wrong?

edit: typos. Again.

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

What does that have to do with the fact that a gay romance with Anders is forced on you, unless you want to A:skip content in the game (not talking to him) B:Act like a homophobe to anders and be a jerk no neutral option or a thanks but no thanks option. Again if you want to rant on what people would do in a situation other than the one being discussed do that somewhere else.

Uh... Anders behaves in exactly the same way in the romance with fem!Hawke. Yet I hear no shouting from the gals. I just clicked a heart because I wanted to be nice, closed my earlids for the resulting dialogue, and then I never klicked a heart again. Problem solved. No romance with Anders. Klicking one heart in act 1 doesn't lock your character in a romance with him.
Just flirt back this one time. It's harmless. He won't grope your Hawke's manly bits, I promise.

Well apparently he does force a kiss on you  if you just gave the heart icon that one time...lol (hasn't happened to me yet and midway past act 2). Again the fact that there is no neutral option is the problem to me not the "advances" anders gives the male or female hawke that one time.

[sleepyowlet]

chrissicross wrote...

moilami wrote...

chrissicross wrote...

TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain wrote...

Personally I would be rather uncomfortable with a gay male hitting on me, why? Simple, I am not gay.

Just take it as a compliment and say "no thank you". Problem solved.

I have done it. I still felt uncomfortable and disgusted.

And I don't feel it being "compliment" if someone wants to use my exit only tube.


Edit:Compliment would be that they don't try to use my exit tube or anything else but take me as human being.

The compliment is that someone else likes you, not just your exit only tube.

Yes. Other than that - welcome to the real world. Now you know how women feel when they are getting hit on by a certain kind of man. That makes us feel objectified too - and if we can get over it, so can you. Just shrug it off and get on with your life.

[Zmajc]

moilami wrote...

chrissicross wrote...

TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain wrote...

Personally I would be rather uncomfortable with a gay male hitting on me, why? Simple, I am not gay.

Just take it as a compliment and say "no thank you". Problem solved.

I have done it. I still felt uncomfortable and disgusted.

And I don't feel it being "compliment" if someone wants to use my exit only tube.


Edit:Compliment would be that they don't try to use my exit tube or anything else but take me as human being.

Pretty much how i felt. Another huge factor for  me never to replay DA2 again really.

Modifié par Zmajc, 25 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[moilami]

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Actually, if I might put my own bi-2 cents in; does it matter if you are hit on by a gay person? Is it not equally repulsive to be hit on by a really unattractive member of the opposite sex? Like, a woman who is dumb as bread and smells bad? Wouldn't that be terrible too? Where is the difference?

I think it comes down to not being attracted at all to the person hitting on you. The mental image of having sex with them makes you go "EEEEWWWW!!!" - and that's the whole issue. Or am I wrong?

edit: typos. Again.

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

What does that have to do with the fact that a gay romance with Anders is forced on you, unless you want to A:skip content in the game (not talking to him) B:Act like a homophobe to anders and be a jerk no neutral option or a thanks but no thanks option. Again if you want to rant on what people would do in a situation other than the one being discussed do that somewhere else.

Uh... Anders behaves in exactly the same way in the romance with fem!Hawke. Yet I hear no shouting from the gals. I just clicked a heart because I wanted to be nice, closed my earlids for the resulting dialogue, and then I never klicked a heart again. Problem solved. No romance with Anders. Klicking one heart in act 1 doesn't lock your character in a romance with him.
Just flirt back this one time. It's harmless. He won't grope your Hawke's manly bits, I promise.

For a hetero it is two different things to being hit by a male or female. Bis maybe don't understand this. However Oghren may help them to understand. I don't hold my breath though.

In workplaces hitting people can be considered to be sexual harassment. I am sure there is some grounds and valid reasoning in that.

(Sup with English language? Hitting is seducing, shooting is photographing. Why use words which have totally different violent meaning?)

[ms_sunlight]

Mlaar wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

Anders is also upset and gives you rivalry points if you knock him back as LadyHawke.  There is no neutral response knocking someone back - they've put themselves on the line to express an interest so it is realistic that they be a little hurt / put out if refused.

Actually his reaction is unreaslistic sure you have spoken to him with mutal respect as a man friends with another man would but nowhere have you done anything to lead him to the conclusion you want a relationship with a male infact the straight male is likely have shown only intrest in females so him approaching you beinging politley rebuked should not have recieved the reaction it did.. It actually paints homosexual men in a negative light saying that a person is required to walk on eggshells when responding to an advance. It was handled wrong as simple as that 

That's the point - a person *does* have to walk on eggshells when rebuffing an advance, regardless of the genders involved.  If you play as LadyHawke, Anders comes on to you out of the blue even if you have never flirted with him - he obviously just fancies you - and is miffed if you knock him back.  I have had this experience in my real life and it played out as realistic to me.

Look at the videos of that scene - there are plenty on YouTube - and compare the ManHawke and LadyHawke versions.  They play out remarkably similarly.

[Nathander Von Eric]

I think that Bioware has the right to make the game in anyway that they see fit including the story lines and romances. Gay, straight, alien or what ever.

I respect the fact that they made decisions to make the game in a way that -they-wanted to make it even knowing that by doing so they could possibly alienate or, at the least, displease some of their fan base.

You step up to the plate and take a swing. Sometimes you hit a home run and sometimes you hit a foul ball or strike out.

The only "Right" I see myself as having as a fan and a consumer is to first make a judgment on whether I wish to purchase the game or not based on information that Bioware has supplied before hand and then to make the purchase or not.

I chose not to this time. But I'm not going to bash or be mad at Bioware or individuals that worked on the game because they didn't make or write the game as -I- wanted them to.

I also won't bash on the fans that like the new direction. I don't like the fact that a gay male will hit on me during the game and the reused areas. No thanks. Don't want it. That's just my opinion and my personal taste.

Others like or appreciate the gay options and I'm cool with that. Good for you and I hope you enjoy.

To sum up.

Am I disappointed in the direction that Bioware went? Absolutely.

But I'll still be looking forward to their next games (Dragon Age & Mass Effect series especially) and checking them out regardless of the fact that I don't want this -one- game.

If I think they are games that I will want to play I will buy them. If not I won't.

In any event I can always go back to Baldur's Gate 1&2, Jade Empire, NWN, Mass Effect 1&2 and Dragon Age Origins ( Which was a masterpiece all around in my opinion) and enjoy them.

So, hey, thanks for making them Bioware. I hope I can say the same about the games you make in the future.

Modifié par Nathander Von Eric, 25 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[Lord Sullivan]

JediMB wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

You like all being bi? Ok. But I want a good fantasy game. I dont want to think that this guy that covers me is gay. I cant feel like he is my close friend or brother in arms becouse of he is gay and may think that I am found of him.

I dont against gay characters, it was ok with Zevran cause I could easely avoid him. But in DA2 the only 2h warrior is Fenris and the only healer is Anders.

And you are right we dont have choise in our feelings and that is why I dont want gay to hit on me.

what is this i dont even

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but this is homophobia and prejudice.

Otherwise, you'd have to be uncomfortable with being around female characters that you aren't interested in either, since one apparently can't be a "close friend or sister in arms" if she might possibly have feelings for you.

Sorry very weak argument here. Admitedly this person is no native english, but i understand was he's saying.
What he is saying is that he doesn't appreciate the possible delusion a gay male may have of his PC (Or himself in RL) as he can't relate to "Homosexuality" and finds it insulting that a gay male could possibly assume that his PC may be gay.

Homophobia doesn't exist, it's just a hyperbole word created by the gay community.

[Artoz96]

JediMB wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

You like all being bi? Ok. But I want a good fantasy game. I dont want to think that this guy that covers me is gay. I cant feel like he is my close friend or brother in arms becouse of he is gay and may think that I am found of him.

I dont against gay characters, it was ok with Zevran cause I could easely avoid him. But in DA2 the only 2h warrior is Fenris and the only healer is Anders.

And you are right we dont have choise in our feelings and that is why I dont want gay to hit on me.

what is this i dont even

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but this is homophobia and prejudice.

Otherwise, you'd have to be uncomfortable with being around female characters that you aren't interested in either, since one apparently can't be a "close friend or sister in arms" if she might possibly have feelings for you.

No need to sorry, If I need to fu... with gay so that you consider me tolerate person, than no, I am a homophob. By the way, tell me please, doctor, what is it "homophobia"? Not long ago thougnt that gay person is sick.  Now nobody think so. Now we have another situation when the person that dont like gays is sick.  Dont you thing it quite... wrong?

Tell me doc, so i dont like gays and dont want them to deal with me... what harm i dealt to them by this? How I insult gay person?

Modifié par Artoz96, 25 mars 2011 - 01:51 .

[Melyanna]

ms_sunlight wrote...


That's the point - a person *does* have to walk on eggshells when rebuffing an advance, regardless of the genders involved.  If you play as LadyHawke, Anders comes on to you out of the blue even if you have never flirted with him - he obviously just fancies you - and is miffed if you knock him back.  I have had this experience in my real life and it played out as realistic to me.

Look at the videos of that scene - there are plenty on YouTube - and compare the ManHawke and LadyHawke versions.  They play out remarkably similarly.

This!

Anders is pushy, this is part of the characterisation and he is written to make you at least a little bit uncomfortable.

It seems to me that some of the commenters here believe that his pushy attitude is horrible towards a male character, but perfectly acceptable towards a female character, which would be  not only homofobic, but also sexist - so I hope I am mistaken.

[sleepyowlet]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Actually, if I might put my own bi-2 cents in; does it matter if you are hit on by a gay person? Is it not equally repulsive to be hit on by a really unattractive member of the opposite sex? Like, a woman who is dumb as bread and smells bad? Wouldn't that be terrible too? Where is the difference?

I think it comes down to not being attracted at all to the person hitting on you. The mental image of having sex with them makes you go "EEEEWWWW!!!" - and that's the whole issue. Or am I wrong?

edit: typos. Again.

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

What does that have to do with the fact that a gay romance with Anders is forced on you, unless you want to A:skip content in the game (not talking to him) B:Act like a homophobe to anders and be a jerk no neutral option or a thanks but no thanks option. Again if you want to rant on what people would do in a situation other than the one being discussed do that somewhere else.

Uh... Anders behaves in exactly the same way in the romance with fem!Hawke. Yet I hear no shouting from the gals. I just clicked a heart because I wanted to be nice, closed my earlids for the resulting dialogue, and then I never klicked a heart again. Problem solved. No romance with Anders. Klicking one heart in act 1 doesn't lock your character in a romance with him.
Just flirt back this one time. It's harmless. He won't grope your Hawke's manly bits, I promise.

Well apparently he does force a kiss on you  if you just gave the heart icon that one time...lol (hasn't happened to me yet and midway past act 2). Again the fact that there is no neutral option is the problem to me not the "advances" anders gives the male or female hawke that one time.

Well, I have completed the game completely unkissed by anyone, in spite of klicking a few hearts here and there. The only "eeeew" moment I had was when Isabela appeared in my pad and was like, "Let's have some girly fun!" and I remembered that scene from Ander's clinic and was like, "Let's not."
And that was it.
I have a hard time imagining that the male romance is that different from the female one in terms of mechanics. I have the sneaking suspicion that those "force-kissed" mistook the flirt options as friendly options because the heart is yellow and not red, clicked through the dialogue, hit the esc-button all the while - and were shocked at the outcome.
And turning Anders down doesn't make you a homophobe. It makes you uninterested in a romance with him, which is fine. I didn't want him either. Does that make me anything?

[PlumPaul93]

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Actually, if I might put my own bi-2 cents in; does it matter if you are hit on by a gay person? Is it not equally repulsive to be hit on by a really unattractive member of the opposite sex? Like, a woman who is dumb as bread and smells bad? Wouldn't that be terrible too? Where is the difference?

I think it comes down to not being attracted at all to the person hitting on you. The mental image of having sex with them makes you go "EEEEWWWW!!!" - and that's the whole issue. Or am I wrong?

edit: typos. Again.

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

What does that have to do with the fact that a gay romance with Anders is forced on you, unless you want to A:skip content in the game (not talking to him) B:Act like a homophobe to anders and be a jerk no neutral option or a thanks but no thanks option. Again if you want to rant on what people would do in a situation other than the one being discussed do that somewhere else.

Uh... Anders behaves in exactly the same way in the romance with fem!Hawke. Yet I hear no shouting from the gals. I just clicked a heart because I wanted to be nice, closed my earlids for the resulting dialogue, and then I never klicked a heart again. Problem solved. No romance with Anders. Klicking one heart in act 1 doesn't lock your character in a romance with him.
Just flirt back this one time. It's harmless. He won't grope your Hawke's manly bits, I promise.

Well apparently he does force a kiss on you  if you just gave the heart icon that one time...lol (hasn't happened to me yet and midway past act 2). Again the fact that there is no neutral option is the problem to me not the "advances" anders gives the male or female hawke that one time.

Well, I have completed the game completely unkissed by anyone, in spite of klicking a few hearts here and there. The only "eeeew" moment I had was when Isabela appeared in my pad and was like, "Let's have some girly fun!" and I remembered that scene from Ander's clinic and was like, "Let's not."
And that was it.
I have a hard time imagining that the male romance is that different from the female one in terms of mechanics. I have the sneaking suspicion that those "force-kissed" mistook the flirt options as friendly options because the heart is yellow and not red, clicked through the dialogue, hit the esc-button all the while - and were shocked at the outcome.
And turning Anders down doesn't make you a homophobe. It makes you uninterested in a romance with him, which is fine. I didn't want him either. Does that make me anything?

Well I'd say that It's def not the same considering for a male hawke anders is gay (just mentions karl no women so all I can assume is he's gay for a male hawke) and for a lady hawke he is a whiny straight guy. Also the romances are probably exactly the same. Do you get rivalry for declining isabella at all? Just wondering because if you did and the only options were to bang her or attack the fact that she is bi, then I'd say that is wrong also.

[moilami]

Artoz96 wrote...

JediMB wrote...

Artoz96 wrote...

You like all being bi? Ok. But I want a good fantasy game. I dont want to think that this guy that covers me is gay. I cant feel like he is my close friend or brother in arms becouse of he is gay and may think that I am found of him.

I dont against gay characters, it was ok with Zevran cause I could easely avoid him. But in DA2 the only 2h warrior is Fenris and the only healer is Anders.

And you are right we dont have choise in our feelings and that is why I dont want gay to hit on me.

what is this i dont even

I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but this is homophobia and prejudice.

Otherwise, you'd have to be uncomfortable with being around female characters that you aren't interested in either, since one apparently can't be a "close friend or sister in arms" if she might possibly have feelings for you.

No need to sorry, If I need to fu... with gay so that you consider me tolerate person, than no, I am a homophob. By the way, tell me please, doctor, what is it "homophobia"? Not long ago thougnt that gay person is sick.  Now nobody think so. Now we have another situation when the person that dont like gays is sick.  Dont you thing it quite... wrong?

Tell me doc, so i dont like gays and dont want them to deal with me... what harm i dealt to them by this? How I insult gay person?

Exactly. This whole thing is so sick and absurd I don't remember seeing anything comparable.

People say you have to be fine with gays advancing on you and trying to use your exit only tube, else you are being yelled hard of being a homophobic. So you have to prove you are not a homophobic by letting people hit you at will and use your exit only tube.

If you want to say to those people "get lost scum" one person here begun to have fantasies how he would kill you if you would do it again when asked to not do it again.

WTF?

Modifié par moilami, 25 mars 2011 - 02:02 .

[sleepyowlet]

moilami wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Actually, if I might put my own bi-2 cents in; does it matter if you are hit on by a gay person? Is it not equally repulsive to be hit on by a really unattractive member of the opposite sex? Like, a woman who is dumb as bread and smells bad? Wouldn't that be terrible too? Where is the difference?

I think it comes down to not being attracted at all to the person hitting on you. The mental image of having sex with them makes you go "EEEEWWWW!!!" - and that's the whole issue. Or am I wrong?

edit: typos. Again.

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

What does that have to do with the fact that a gay romance with Anders is forced on you, unless you want to A:skip content in the game (not talking to him) B:Act like a homophobe to anders and be a jerk no neutral option or a thanks but no thanks option. Again if you want to rant on what people would do in a situation other than the one being discussed do that somewhere else.

Uh... Anders behaves in exactly the same way in the romance with fem!Hawke. Yet I hear no shouting from the gals. I just clicked a heart because I wanted to be nice, closed my earlids for the resulting dialogue, and then I never klicked a heart again. Problem solved. No romance with Anders. Klicking one heart in act 1 doesn't lock your character in a romance with him.
Just flirt back this one time. It's harmless. He won't grope your Hawke's manly bits, I promise.

For a hetero it is two different things to being hit by a male or female. Bis maybe don't understand this. However Oghren may help them to understand. I don't hold my breath though.

In workplaces hitting people can be considered to be sexual harassment. I am sure there is some grounds and valid reasoning in that.

(Sup with English language? Hitting is seducing, shooting is photographing. Why use words which have totally different violent meaning?)

The phrase is "to hit on", I believe. As to why? No idea.
Yeah, but there is a difference in some harmless flirting and harassment. As for Anders coming on a bit too strongly... he does it to both male and female Hawke. Yes, it's a bad situation. But it's good writing, because it's totally in character for needy DA2!Anders. And the only way you can get those needy types of your back (no matter if they are male or female), is to tell them "NO." very clearly. There is no diplomatic option in that case. I'm speaking from experience.
And no, they never take it well either. But so what? So this gains you a few rivalry points. Are you role-playing your character or metagaming?

[sleepyowlet]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Actually, if I might put my own bi-2 cents in; does it matter if you are hit on by a gay person? Is it not equally repulsive to be hit on by a really unattractive member of the opposite sex? Like, a woman who is dumb as bread and smells bad? Wouldn't that be terrible too? Where is the difference?

I think it comes down to not being attracted at all to the person hitting on you. The mental image of having sex with them makes you go "EEEEWWWW!!!" - and that's the whole issue. Or am I wrong?

edit: typos. Again.

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

What does that have to do with the fact that a gay romance with Anders is forced on you, unless you want to A:skip content in the game (not talking to him) B:Act like a homophobe to anders and be a jerk no neutral option or a thanks but no thanks option. Again if you want to rant on what people would do in a situation other than the one being discussed do that somewhere else.

Uh... Anders behaves in exactly the same way in the romance with fem!Hawke. Yet I hear no shouting from the gals. I just clicked a heart because I wanted to be nice, closed my earlids for the resulting dialogue, and then I never klicked a heart again. Problem solved. No romance with Anders. Klicking one heart in act 1 doesn't lock your character in a romance with him.
Just flirt back this one time. It's harmless. He won't grope your Hawke's manly bits, I promise.

Well apparently he does force a kiss on you  if you just gave the heart icon that one time...lol (hasn't happened to me yet and midway past act 2). Again the fact that there is no neutral option is the problem to me not the "advances" anders gives the male or female hawke that one time.

Well, I have completed the game completely unkissed by anyone, in spite of klicking a few hearts here and there. The only "eeeew" moment I had was when Isabela appeared in my pad and was like, "Let's have some girly fun!" and I remembered that scene from Ander's clinic and was like, "Let's not."
And that was it.
I have a hard time imagining that the male romance is that different from the female one in terms of mechanics. I have the sneaking suspicion that those "force-kissed" mistook the flirt options as friendly options because the heart is yellow and not red, clicked through the dialogue, hit the esc-button all the while - and were shocked at the outcome.
And turning Anders down doesn't make you a homophobe. It makes you uninterested in a romance with him, which is fine. I didn't want him either. Does that make me anything?

Well I'd say that It's def not the same considering for a male hawke anders is gay (just mentions karl no women so all I can assume is he's gay for a male hawke) and for a lady hawke he is a whiny straight guy. Also the romances are probably exactly the same. Do you get rivalry for declining isabella at all? Just wondering because if you did and the only options were to bang her or attack the fact that she is bi, then I'd say that is wrong also.

Oh no, no rivalry points for that, but that is in character for her. It is also in character for Anders to dispense rivalry-points for turning him down, because he is needy and clingy. So the issue is with Anders as a character, not with being straight/gay/whatever. And what are 15 rivalry points? Rescue three mages, and he'll like you again.

[Caralampio]

I find something disturbing in social trends. If a gay person feels something is offensive, he/she gets all the attention and support. However, if a straight person finds something offensive, he/she is told to eat ****e. Shouldn't the goal be to offend no one? Don't the opinions of straight people count for anything unless they blandly agree with the gay point of view?

Getting hit by Anders in a way that you can't weasel out of is disturbing for many people. Especially those that liked Anders' character in a non-sexual way in Awakening. "Accept my advances or else". You don't get that with any of the women. In fact they're quite hard to romance.

[Tommy6860]

Artoz96 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

The romances in Dragon Age 2 are for everyone, says the games lead writer, not just for the straight, male gamer.
Read the full article in here.

What I think what BW has done is totally dumb. They should have introduced some characters as straight, some as bi and some as gay. It is more realistic than turning all the romance-companions into bi characters.  They should have approached this sexuality issue in more creative manner, where the sexuality is part of the characters' personality. For example, Merrill is straight and Isabela is bi.  Well..., BW you have done the character development in your past games in great manner, so don't try to dumb down the character development now.

I completely agree with Mr Gaider on this. It expresses him as being more human and the type of person who would consider anyone kind being inclusive in his crowd. To the point, I get sick of the discussion about one's sexual orientation, race (of which the term 'race' is scientifically misapplied) or ethnicity in any kind of discussion. Bottom line, we are ALL people, and we have NO choice in our feelings. There are NO races, NO sexual orientations and NO ethinicites, just people with wonderful cultures to share .

Idealistic? Yes. Logical? No.    We are all human but some peolple I hate,  some I love. Some people are bad and some are good.  We are so fu... different in spite of being humans.

You like all being bi? Ok. But I want a good fantasy game. I dont want to think that this guy that covers me is gay. I cant feel like he is my close friend or brother in arms becouse of he is gay and may think that I am found of him.

I dont against gay characters, it was ok with Zevran cause I could easely avoid him. But in DA2 the only 2h warrior is Fenris and the only healer is Anders.

It is perfectly logical and not idealistic. If only idealistic to you
because of some bias or another. Who said I like being bi? Those are
your words and the mere fact you inserted that into the discussion
makes your point a moot one since you already appear to have framed it
the way you want. You already stated that this is a "game', yet you treat
your words as if you're going through some miinor experience causing an
episode for you. You don't even ever have to click the heart icon when it
comes up anyway, so problem solved.

And you are right we dont have choise in our feelings and that is why I dont want gay to hit on me.

Those two points are not mutaully exclusive, you'd have no choice no matter, even if it were in real life. Again, in the game, you simply avoid clicking the heart icon.

[PlumPaul93]

well It isn't a big deal in the long run yes, but that type of mindset is the problem. Also another problem isn't how anders responds to being rejected it's the way hawke rejects him, as it is in anders character to be overdramatic and whiny it should also be in hawkes character to respectfully decline. Not be forced into doing things that would be out of your hawkes character. We could call it a design oversight but really it's just laziness...

[Tommy6860]

Caralampio wrote...

I find something disturbing in social trends. If a gay person feels something is offensive, he/she gets all the attention and support. However, if a straight person finds something offensive, he/she is told to eat ****e. Shouldn't the goal be to offend no one? Don't the opinions of straight people count for anything unless they blandly agree with the gay point of view?

No one has the right to *not* be offended, it just happenes no matter. But when someone finds offense due to one's orientation, taht isn't due to being offended, but rather to being (mostly) conditioned in upbringing through societal stereotypes (an dmany times thorugh religious upbringing).

Getting hit by Anders in a way that you can't weasel out of is disturbing for many people. Especially those that liked Anders' character in a non-sexual way in Awakening. "Accept my advances or else". You don't get that with any of the women. In fact they're quite hard to romance.

Yet in the same breath, I dare take a chance and say you would find no issue playing a female, and getting hit on by a female. I have been hit on quite a few times in my life by gay men, I simply tell them that I am happily married (of which I really am) and move on. I take no offense because they do not know who I am and they cannot help who they are. it is no different than if I hit on a married woman I thought wasn't married. I find attraction to women normal, just like homosexuals of either gender find their attractions normal, it is all the same to me and relative. I look at it in the same light as I would being straight. 

[Lord Sullivan]

sleepyowlet wrote...

[Snip]...

The phrase is "to hit on", I believe. As to why? No idea.
Yeah, but there is a difference in some harmless flirting and harassment. As for Anders coming on a bit too strongly... he does it to both male and female Hawke. Yes, it's a bad situation. But it's good writing, because it's totally in character for needy DA2!Anders. And the only way you can get those needy types of your back (no matter if they are male or female), is to tell them "NO." very clearly. There is no diplomatic option in that case. I'm speaking from experience.
And no, they never take it well either. But so what? So this gains you a few rivalry points. Are you role-playing your character or metagaming?

You may have a bit of a point about "There is no diplomatic option" but the question is... should there have been one at the very least?

In NWN OC, at some point Grimgnaw's tale include him telling you about a child he had to gut for his Circle's trial, one of the dialog options was " you're a sick man Grimgnaw" and that is obviously the line I chose because that his how I am moraly, but had there been only say... 3 choices like...

1- They make you kill baby children to join your circle?... Hiiiii HAAAAaaaa! when can I join?
2- So they make you kill little children... so what?
3- So what happened next?

I'd probably would have found that disturbing. Now I'm not comparing "Gays" with spycho gutting baby murderers,
just that I would definitly would have stood there thinking how I would have prefered a more proper dialog option to RP what I really wanted and would of probably thought that the writer is one sick puppy.

Mind that doesn't change much whatvever dialog you chose on that particular tale from Grimgnaw but, just to kind of put things in perspective.

Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 25 mars 2011 - 02:26 .

[moilami]

Caralampio wrote...

I find something disturbing in social trends. If a gay person feels something is offensive, he/she gets all the attention and support. However, if a straight person finds something offensive, he/she is told to eat ****e. Shouldn't the goal be to offend no one? Don't the opinions of straight people count for anything unless they blandly agree with the gay point of view?

Getting hit by Anders in a way that you can't weasel out of is disturbing for many people. Especially those that liked Anders' character in a non-sexual way in Awakening. "Accept my advances or else". You don't get that with any of the women. In fact they're quite hard to romance.

Hate is big towards white hetero male. People can put all desire to hate and all hatred they have on it.

Most of the people act based on how they think they can be perceived to be holier than thou. And when they go political they often lose the little bit of sanity they have.

[Tommy6860]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

ms_sunlight wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Actually, if I might put my own bi-2 cents in; does it matter if you are hit on by a gay person? Is it not equally repulsive to be hit on by a really unattractive member of the opposite sex? Like, a woman who is dumb as bread and smells bad? Wouldn't that be terrible too? Where is the difference?

I think it comes down to not being attracted at all to the person hitting on you. The mental image of having sex with them makes you go "EEEEWWWW!!!" - and that's the whole issue. Or am I wrong?

edit: typos. Again.

It always seems to be straight males who make this complaint.  I think it's due to the sexist nature of our society; as a female I am so used to being hit on almost indiscriminately by men (although it happens less now I am a little older thankfully!) that being hit on by one more person I don't fancy is neither here nor there.

Straight guys who have a big freak out at the idea of another guy expressing an interest - and doing so verbally and respectfully - need to get over themselves.

What does that have to do with the fact that a gay romance with Anders is forced on you, unless you want to A:skip content in the game (not talking to him) B:Act like a homophobe to anders and be a jerk no neutral option or a thanks but no thanks option. Again if you want to rant on what people would do in a situation other than the one being discussed do that somewhere else.

Exactly how is it forced on you other than your objection that Ander's will make a romantic approach regardless of gender? You can just turn him down. It's not one's choice in life to be what they are when attracted to people, but it certainly is your choice to be biased.

Well I'd say It's forced on you when the 3 choices are:2 be gay or 1 be homophobic. The thing about these issues is that It's a huge grey area, some people are going to feel one way and others are going to feel another. I'd just say it was lazy character design that lead to an issue like this (not that theres gay characters but that every character is bi) I'll just say that and leave it at that.

But the problem is, it isn't forced on you. You make the choice of romance ultimately, and I suspect your chocie is going to be to your orientation. Ultimatelty, if you romance Isabela, that is what you want, while you reject the others.

[sleepyowlet]

Caralampio wrote...

I find something disturbing in social trends. If a gay person feels something is offensive, he/she gets all the attention and support. However, if a straight person finds something offensive, he/she is told to eat ****e. Shouldn't the goal be to offend no one? Don't the opinions of straight people count for anything unless they blandly agree with the gay point of view?

Getting hit by Anders in a way that you can't weasel out of is disturbing for many people. Especially those that liked Anders' character in a non-sexual way in Awakening. "Accept my advances or else". You don't get that with any of the women. In fact they're quite hard to romance.

As I and others have said before, he does that with female characters too. Is that better?
It's just the way his character is written - straight/gay/whatever has nothing to do with it. Awkward, yes. But you can tell him to get lost. So what's the issue?
I think the writers completely ruined Anders' character, but that is another story alltogether.