2875 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Dark83 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

So tell me again why is a "no homosexual" option at the start of a game a bad idea?

For the same reason why a "no black people" option in restaurants is a bad idea.

That's not the same thing. It's only going to apply to his game anyway, or for anyone who chooses the option. It has no impact on you at all. Unless you are trying to force gay romance onto him and that is where I will stop supporting the everyone is bi side and switch to his side. Because then you would be guilty of what you accuse him of.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Galad22 wrote...
Sure why not. It is just as sensible as making such a big deal from something this small in a videogame.

Well in that case, Dr. ReconTeam wonders why it is so important for you to be able to sleep with anybody you choose in the first place? Your the ones who made this a big deal after-all.

[City6]

ReconTeam wrote...

Dark83 wrote...
So tell me again why is a "no homosexual" option at the start of a game a bad idea?

For the same reason why a "no black people" option in restaurants is a bad idea.

Since when is homosexuality race? It is okay for you to be able to "customize" your game by all of the LIs being bisexual yet me not wanting that content is bad? Enough of this hypocrisy.

The analogy has nothing to do with race, and the fact that you think that "Since when is homosexuality a race" is an appropriote reply makes me think you're not grasping the issues whatsoever.

Modifié par City6, 24 mars 2011 - 09:01 .

[The Angry One]

BobSmith101 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Because You. Already. Have. The. Option.
You want realism? Guess what, in real life you don't have the right to not be exposed to every single thing that offends you.

You also have the right not to hang out with people you don't like. The problem with Anders is they made him a key part of the game by giving him the best healing powers.

If he really was optional, then it would not be so much of a problem I'm guessing.

Part of the problem with DA2 is they have made the companions too specialised. Zevren was very much optional, Anders is not.

I don't see any problem with flagging the characters sexuality as part of CC. Especially if the everyone is bi, is the new norm.

While I don't share their feelings I see no need to creep people out with gay advances if they don't want to see that.

You realise this pretty much applies to every party based RPG ever made, aside from those where you craft your own parties, right?
Yes, Zevran was optional. But if you're not a healer mage, Wynne pretty much was not. In Awakening, Justice was the group's tank if you weren't.

[Kidd]

Iamnotahater wrote...

Of course it is. If you are a straight guy who likes commited relationships with straight women you are a homophobe.

Err, I'm really trying not to sound offensive here, but I'm not succeeding very well. But you do know it's a heterosexual relationship if a straight person is in love with a bisexual person, right? I'm bisexual and my boyfriend is straight, certainly our relationship is heterosexual - he wouldn't be much into it otherwise.

ReconTeam wrote...

Guess what. In real life if I meet ten random people they are probably going to be straight. Yet if everybody was straight in Hawke's party in DA2 you would throw a tantrum.

So tell me again why is a "no homosexual" option at the start of a game a bad idea?

And none of my friends can throw fire from their hands IRL, never mind one out of ten of them. We play rpgs to do things we cannot do in real life. We want options to do things we cannot do IRL. I'd find a game where we wake up by 6am every morning, eat breakfast, go to work, come home, take care of children and then spend a few hours before bed time doing what we wished to be a pretty dull game.

Lots of people wanna shoot fire from their hands, so we can shoot fire from our hands in the game if we want to. Lots of people wanna romance people of certain genders, so we can do that in the game if we want to as well. No biggie.

[The Angry One]

Pious_Augustus wrote...


WRONG!

Hey. Friendly tip. Play the game yourself instead of referncing Tim Buckley's unfunny web comics.

[Inquisitor Recon]

The Angry One wrote...
Because it's an option that only appeals to bigots who can't even deal with the IDEA.
Yet again. You have the option to say no and nothing will come of it.

So you finally play the card. I am a "bigot" because I don't want this content in my game? Get over yourself.

You simply don't want such an option at the start of the game becaues you have no respect for anybody who doesn't share your politically correct opinion.

[Dr. Stephen J. Krune III]

Dark83 wrote...
Anders is part of a group of highly oppressed people kept in confinement. Are we really surprised at his leanings? Further, he reveals something to you that would make anyone else run screaming. Hawke doesn't have much of an issue with it, and continues to associate with him. His interest isn't because you're male or female, it's because of how you treated him.

Merrill is a pariah among her people, and had no friends. Hawke befriends her, is her first house guest, and sees her through her goals. Her interest in Hawke isn't because you're male or female, it's because you actually visited her and pursued her. She's a sad, lonely little puppy.

You write very astutely on this complicated subject (I say this as a psychologist who studies gender issues in addition to many other things). It is a proven fact that when a person is very lonely, sex with anyone and anything is deemed fully appropriate if not scientifically inevitable. I have a personal anecdote which I believe confirms this. As it turns out my school-age son befriended a lonely nerdy boy at school, who was picked on by the other kids no doubt because he was an ugly misfit. I long ago assumed my son was gay, based on certain leanings and behaviors, and so I encouraged he and his friend to spend a lot of time together.

For all I know they are just friends who spend a lot of time together playing video games, but I often jokingly hint at other possibilities by calling the boy (Melvin) my son's wife. This is not meant to tease or belittle but to suggest to them both that it would be entirely appropriate if their relations were more than "friendly". I am also trying to show Melvin via videogames like Dragon Age II that anyone is capable of homosexuality, or as I call it "gayness", and that accepting this is an important part of growing up in the right way, and not being a bigot who doesn't deserve life. Kudos to Bioware for treating this issue sensitively, both in the game and on this forum. I hope the person who complained is banned.

Modifié par Dr. Stephen J. Krune III, 24 mars 2011 - 09:03 .

[yuncas]

ReconTeam wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
Sure why not. It is just as sensible as making such a big deal from something this small in a videogame.

Well in that case, Dr. ReconTeam wonders why it is so important for you to be able to sleep with anybody you choose in the first place? Your the ones who made this a big deal after-all.

Who would be "The Ones"?

[AkiKishi]

The Angry One wrote...
You realise this pretty much applies to every party based RPG ever made, aside from those where you craft your own parties, right?
Yes, Zevran was optional. But if you're not a healer mage, Wynne pretty much was not. In Awakening, Justice was the group's tank if you weren't.

Well the lesson to learn from this is obviously to not make the LI's key party members. Wynn was not an LI. Never got around to Awakenings, can't really comment on that.

[v_ware]

ReconTeam wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh! We can't deal with ******/bisexuality, can we? So that's the problem then.
Wel let me just say this game is rated M for mature. For adults. And most sane and well-balanced adults are capable of dealing with sexual content, of any kind.

Especially flirting. Jeesj. He said he liked you, he didn't rape you and your entire family. Get over yourself.

Your personal attacks still fail to answer my question. Again why is it a bad idea? And most sane guys I know don't like being hit on by men either.

Because it would mean a stigma on homosexuality from the start of the game. Homosexuals in a game or any other context are no offensive content (just because they hit on you) and should therefore not have an off button. That's literally saying: I don't want you to exist. Other people have felt the same way about some groups of people. You know the examples. (For refference: No blacks, No jews...)

And I'm not personally attacking you. I'm just frustrated with your ignorance.

Modifié par v_ware, 24 mars 2011 - 09:05 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

They wouldn't be having this problem if they wouldn't have the male LI's hit on the male hawke every time you go to talk to them. I agree, as a straight person, that it's pretty uncomfortable. Theres a way you can integrate it without imposing on someones beliefs/persona preference. The way they went about it in DA2 was unacceptable. You couldn't even talk to fenris/anders without getting flirty dialogue. This was in DA:O with Zevran, and it made me kill the guy on the spot. Not even 5 minutes after meeting him, he's hitting on my male warden. It's ridiculous. I respect that people have a choice to go with the gay romances, but don't force it on the gamer, let the romance sidequest be a pursuable option rather than having it pursue the player.

-Polite

[Sharn01]

ReconTeam wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh! We can't deal with ******/bisexuality, can we? So that's the problem then.
Wel let me just say this game is rated M for mature. For adults. And most sane and well-balanced adults are capable of dealing with sexual content, of any kind.

Especially flirting. Jeesj. He said he liked you, he didn't rape you and your entire family. Get over yourself.

Your personal attacks still fail to answer my question. Again why is it a bad idea? And most sane guys I know don't like being hit on by men either.

That really depends on the personality of the guy, I consider it a compliment when I get hit on by someone I am not attracted too, though it does make me a bit uncomfortable as well.  I had a gay kid in his late teens or early twenties hit on me a few weeks ago when I was staying in a hotel, it didnt bother me until he started following me around oggling me. 

Fact is most people are uncomfortable when anyone they are not attracted to hits on them, whether its someone of a gender they are not attracted to, someone extremely obese or ugly, the list goes on.  They are all hypocrites for the most part though, I have never seen a fat and dirty man at work refuse to oggle an attractive young woman because he feels she would not find him attractive, and hell be the first person to bash the very idea of a gay man hitting on him during the silly lunch time conversations that sometimes take place.

[Captain Jazz]

ReconTeam wrote...

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...
When it comes down to it......anyone who wants a "No homosexual" option is straight up homophobic. End of
question.

Tell me, if you want the option of these "Hawke-sexuals" who swing whatever way Hawke swings, why would it be wrong for a "no homosexual" option at the start of the game?

Yes. You are entirely correct. I agree entirely and also suggest that there be a "no woman" option along with "no qunari," "no mage," "no elf," and "no dwarf" options. Huzzah!
(Or you could just not flirt with the "wrong" characters perhaps. Granted the effort required is massive, but it is survivable.)

[The Angry One]

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Because it's an option that only appeals to bigots who can't even deal with the IDEA.
Yet again. You have the option to say no and nothing will come of it.

So you finally play the card. I am a "bigot" because I don't want this content in my game? Get over yourself.

You simply don't want such an option at the start of the game becaues you have no respect for anybody who doesn't share your politically correct opinion.

You're not a bigot if you want no part of it. You're a bigot if you want to COMPLETELY ERASE IT BECAUSE IT SOMEHOW OFFENDS YOU.
You are demanding the latter.

I will repeat until you understand: You have the option to say no. You have the option to have no gay romance whatsoever. Why is this not enough for you.

[Inquisitor Recon]

yuncas wrote...
Who would be "The Ones"?

That group (not all) of gay/lesbian players who demanded gay content in DA:O, then took it to the next level in DA2 by wanting everybody to be bisexual. Yet they don't care how this negatively effects the quality of the writing.

[Galad22]

ReconTeam wrote...

Well in that case, Dr. ReconTeam wonders why it is so important for you to be able to sleep with anybody you choose in the first place? Your the ones who made this a big deal after-all.

How so? I am not asking them to turn off content just because it might offend my sensibilities.

[demodar]

And you still did not answer the questions asked which are not that much personal if you ask me .
Did you not feel offended by the fact that there was killing in the game? Because its not really accepted in mod society .Maybe we should return to 15 century when killing someone was act of honor

[Mooh Bear]

stickydimes2006 wrote...

i don't care that there are Homosexuals in the game. It doesn't matter to me. Do they really have to hit on you constantly? For any kind of relationship in the game you should have to do something or choose a conversation option that opens it up. Anders automatically hitting on me the second i recruit him is too much. Even after i turn him down him and other male characters are always trying to hit on me. Call me what you will but it i don't want to play a gay date simulation. I thought i'd be killing dragons here not turning down homosexual advances constantly. For Dragon Age 3 take the relationships out completely or at least make it to where i have to hit on someone first before i have to always be discusted over and over. I don't want to recruit any more soldiers for fear it will just be another gay moment in an otherwise great game. Do the Call of Duty thing and ask before i'm forced to endure this. Make people check a gay box or something at the beginning of the game.

How are you guys being "constantly harassed" by male characters? There are only 2: Anders and Ferris. Only Anders make a move on his own. The prostitutes at the brothel also hit on you, but, they're prostitutes doing their job. And then, so what? A guy hitting on you in a video game is so abhorrent to you that you need to make it go away? But you're okay half-naked promiscuous females, with literally killing hundreds of people, seeing them explode in puddles of blood? Again, it says more about your own insecurities than about Bioware wanting to turn you gay.

[v_ware]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

They wouldn't be having this problem if they wouldn't have the male LI's hit on the male hawke every time you go to talk to them. I agree, as a straight person, that it's pretty uncomfortable. Theres a way you can integrate it without imposing on someones beliefs/persona preference. The way they went about it in DA2 was unacceptable. You couldn't even talk to fenris/anders without getting flirty dialogue. This was in DA:O with Zevran, and it made me kill the guy on the spot. Not even 5 minutes after meeting him, he's hitting on my male warden. It's ridiculous. I respect that people have a choice to go with the gay romances, but don't force it on the gamer, let the romance sidequest be a pursuable option rather than having it pursue the player.

-Polite

So you killed Zevran because he was gay and flirted with you...

That's rather disturbing.

[City6]

M-G-D wrote...

Trying to be politically correct in every imaginable way is what drags down Bioware's writing as of late. This is painfully obvious if a game is marketed as dark and mature but at the same time strives to be as inoffensive as possible.

You'll find that people who bring up the phrase "political correctness" are usually folks who are outraged that can't call a black man the n-word or a gay person the f-word in 2011, without being considered an idiot.

[Dark83]

ReconTeam wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...
So tell me again why is a "no homosexual" option at the start of a game a bad idea?

For the same reason why a "no black people" option in restaurants is a bad idea.

Since when is homosexuality race? It is okay for you to be able to "customize" your game by all of the LIs being bisexual yet me not wanting that content is bad? Enough of this hypocrisy.

You really like to toss accusations around, don't you? Not to mention your baseless statements - you must be a politician.

The game has not been customized by the LIs being bisexual, nor are the LIs bisexual other than Isabela. Depending on the story Varric is telling, Anders is either entirely straight or gay, Fenris is straight unless you're gay and romancing him, and Merrill depends on you as well.

The whole "bisexual" complaint is entirely misleading and loaded. Isabela is bisexual, the others are not - they happen to be gay or straight depending on Hawke. Their availability to those you don't approve of affects you in no way - yet you would impose restrictions on them purely because you can't come to terms with it.

What's the difference between intolerance of sexual orientation, intolerance of gender, intolerance of hair color, intolerance of nationality, or intolerance of race? They are all prejudices against something the individual has no control over.

[Iamnotahater]

BobSmith101 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
You realise this pretty much applies to every party based RPG ever made, aside from those where you craft your own parties, right?
Yes, Zevran was optional. But if you're not a healer mage, Wynne pretty much was not. In Awakening, Justice was the group's tank if you weren't.

Well the lesson to learn from this is obviously to not make the LI's key party members. Wynn was not an LI. Never got around to Awakenings, can't really comment on that.

The GILF crowd was really upset over Wynn not being a romance option,

I say let everybody in.

Make Werewolves a romance option.

Make the hound a romance option.

Make the elves crossdressers.

After all we can't leave anyone out and have a straight action role playing game. Those type of games don't sell well.

[The Angry One]

Constantly harrassed? Anders makes a move a couple of times at most because his personality includes neediness. He is a terribly lonely, tortured person. You want individuality? There is your individuality.