2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Jazz]

It always confuses me when people bring up the idea that homosexuality is unnatural... even if it was, so what? I am sitting in a house on the edge of my bed (because my desk is rather cluttered right now) using the keyboard on my laptop to type in a cmment on a forum on the internet while drinking a glass of lemonade, listening to the radio and wearing my clothes... and we're griping about what's natural? Seriously?
Homosexuality is natural... but why does it matter either way? Should we abandon clothes? I live in England, have mercy!

[Russalka]

How long has this thread been off-topic by now?

[v_ware]

Lord Sullivan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

v_ware wrote...

One more thing. Calling someone unnatural because of their sexuality is incredibly offensive and hurtfull.

It's also untrue.

Yep you can say abnormal and be accurate, but unantural does not apply as homosexuality exists in nature.

Studies indicate that about 10% (give or take a few percents) of the population is gay. 10 percent is not considered to be abnormal.

And again. Thanks dude. Calling every homosexual abnormal, classy.

If by Abnormal he meant "Freak" then I'd agree with your assesment, however it might be saying the way I read it as not "Normal"... "Nor of the Norm" "Outsideof the norm" "Different"

It doesn't matter, let's just say it was a poor choice of words.

[solstickan]

moilami wrote...

Then you must read very selectively BW forums.

I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

If you can't handle a few anonymous people arguing against you on the internet, then tough luck. I feel no sympathy for you whatsoever.

[c3701]

solstickan wrote...

It's funny because I have never seen a gay/bi/transsexual harassing heterosexuals, whereas I have heard plenty of hatecrimes, bullying and discrimination against LGBT people. For centuries these people have been shunned away by society, hunted even.  In perspective, heterosexuals really have nothing to complain about.

The only reason things have occationally turned hostile in this thread is because "you" (speaking widely here) refuse to listen to their completely valid arguments and continue spewing homophobic messages.

And, yet again, you have TWO straight LIs. Can you not count? And you would not have gotten any more if they made them all straight.

Actually it's gone both ways.  Some dude 30 pages or so ago advocated the rape of straight men just to show em.  Then again, I do not think he was gay, just his son.

Regardless, I'm not sure what valid arguments you're referring to, but the thing Gaider was responding to was in part a "no homosexual" option.  I and a at least one other, suggested it be labelled more along the lines of "sexual preference" or some such.  With options straight, gay, all, none.  I do not know how they've implemented dialog, but my guess is, it would be trival to implment such an option.

The general response was along the lines of:
1.  That's stupid.
2.  You're insecure
3.  Those people want a game with no gay people and that's just not right.

Gaider said something along the lines of privilege and ignorance, blah blah blah.  Whatever.

The gist of this is that some people would like an option.  Others do not want that option for anyone... pretty much because they are offended that said people want the option.  And I'm being oppressed.  Thanks.

Modifié par c3701, 25 mars 2011 - 08:05 .

[sleepyowlet]

Captain Jazz wrote...

It always confuses me when people bring up the idea that homosexuality is unnatural... even if it was, so what? I am sitting in a house on the edge of my bed (because my desk is rather cluttered right now) using the keyboard on my laptop to type in a cmment on a forum on the internet while drinking a glass of lemonade, listening to the radio and wearing my clothes... and we're griping about what's natural? Seriously?
Homosexuality is natural... but why does it matter either way? Should we abandon clothes? I live in England, have mercy!

*lol*

That was epic. Thank you. I agree. The human race as such has gone so far away from nature in all aspects... and let's not forget toys. Toys are unnatural too. And games. Gamers are unnatural!

I find this whole discussion a tad ridiculous. To each their own, and all that. What's so difficult about this concept, that some people just can't understand it?

[v_ware]

solstickan wrote...
I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

Exactly. It is incredibly hurtfull to be denied the way you are. Everywhere you turn even your even family doesn't agree with your existance.

This might be exagerating, not every homosexual has to deal with it being that bad. But every homosexual has to deal with it from time to time.

[Burton999]

Usually I don`t leave my opinion,concernings games, on forums. But in this rare case i just have too. After 10 hours gameplay in DA2 I was exposed for what I would call a "gay-trap". It was late night and I was tired and I hit the wrong choice in the wrong dialog.
I`m hetero and I have 3 friends that are gay. Their sexual preferences doesn`t consern me and I have nothing against them. I`m saying this because alot of people who are gay or bi feel that what I`m saying in this thread might be short sighted or that it might be a narrow point of view. I`m not and I don`t.

But my point is that when I`m playing a game like DA2, I would like to develop a character, create certain abilities, stances,traits etc. which fits my wishes. Just being inattentive for a minute and my character heads toward a gayish orientation which is not my preference. That is what I would call a devestasting way to develop a character.

Gay, hetero or bi, I think we all can agree that our sexual orientation means a lot to us in real life. And so does it in a 50 hour long game, in my opinion. I honestly must say that it ruined my game experience and I had to use a savegame which left me two hours behind schedule. Not that it matters that much, but it also leaves me with a totally different point of view of the game. Now I must take care what I say all the time, to whom I say it, at what time i say it, or I risk ending up with a ##"¤¤" in my "#¤¤¤(pardon my language). I lost focus on the history and I ended up never taking with me Anders nor Fenris. It`s kind of sad, because they are two persons out of 6 members. The game offers great dialogs with your crew members and now I missed 33,3% of these dialogs. It`s not realistic the way BW has developed the game dialogs concerning sexuality. It just "#¤"#4`s up the game.

To point this out. I still have 3 gay friends in real life, and I don`t risk having a sexual relationship by only talking to or being nice to them.

I must point out that I have only played the game once.

BW, where did you leave your magic?

Modifié par Burton999, 25 mars 2011 - 08:06 .

[AkiKishi]

v_ware wrote...

solstickan wrote...
I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

Exactly. It is incredibly hurtfull to be denied the way you are. Everywhere you turn even your even family doesn't agree with your existance.

This might be exagerating, not every homosexual has to deal with it being that bad. But every homosexual has to deal with it from time to time.

Serious question then. How does a game that panders to you help you deal with stuff like that?

Modifié par BobSmith101, 25 mars 2011 - 08:06 .

[asindre]

Russalka wrote...

How long has this thread been off-topic by now?

Was it ever on-topic?

[Lord Sullivan]

v_ware wrote...

Lord Sullivan wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

v_ware wrote...

One more thing. Calling someone unnatural because of their sexuality is incredibly offensive and hurtfull.

It's also untrue.

Yep you can say abnormal and be accurate, but unantural does not apply as homosexuality exists in nature.

Studies indicate that about 10% (give or take a few percents) of the population is gay. 10 percent is not considered to be abnormal.

And again. Thanks dude. Calling every homosexual abnormal, classy.

If by Abnormal he meant "Freak" then I'd agree with your assesment, however it might be saying the way I read it as not "Normal"... "Nor of the Norm" "Outsideof the norm" "Different"

It doesn't matter, let's just say it was a poor choice of words.

Oh so you decide what is a good choice of words when those words are offensive in there nature?

Get over it. One thing is for certain is that Heterosexuals can't relate to homosexuality and I guess the other way around is also true, however, playing the Hyperbole "Homophobia" card like there is not tomorow will turn on
the gay community like the little boy who cried wolf and then those who just hate for the sake of hating will have
more slack to do damage at will to some gay individuals. That is not what all of us level headed straight people want to see happen. Because it would dammage both sides. I don't mind giving our basic support but don't take us for granted.

[solstickan]

c3701 wrote...

Actually it's gone both ways.  Some dude 30 pages or so ago advocated the rape of straight men just to show em.  Then again, I do not think he was gay, just his son.

I believe it soon became clear that that dude was an obvious troll (at least, I hope so...).

Regardless, I'm not sure what valid arguments your referring to, but the thing Gaider was responding to was in part a "no homosexual" option.  I and a at least one other, suggested it be labelled more along the lines of "sexual preference" or some such.  With options straight, gay, all, none.  I do not know how they've implemented dialog, but my guess is, it would be trival to implment such an option.

The general response was along the lines of:
1.  That's stupid.
2.  You're insecure
3.  Those people want a game with no gay people and that's just not right.

Gaider said something along the lines of privilege and ignorance, blah blah blah.  Whatever.

The gist of this is that some people would like an option.  Others do not want that option for anyone... pretty much because they are offended that said people want the option.  And I'm being oppressed.  Thanks.

And a fourth response was this: even if such a button was implemented, Anders would still hit on you, since he does not yet know what sexual preference you have. Or would you rather he be made Tranquil? Just so you wouldn't have to deal with pressing one button and receiving a couple of rivalry points (which can be "rewon" in no time). 

Plus, if you don't act nice to him he doesn't come on to you at all. The overwhelming feelings of disgust can be completely avoided, who knew?! (At least, this is what my memory tells me. In my first playthrough as an aggressive I never remember having to choose a broken heart in a conversation with him.)

[AngelicMachinery]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Serious question then. How does a game that panders to you help you deal with stuff like that?

Serious question then.  How does it "pander" to anyone?  And I think your taking what was said out of context, this discussion has gone a long way away from "Teh gayz in mah game."  To a dicussion about homosexuality in it's very aspects.  

I also imagine that a game give your minority as much choice as the majority it can bring just a little smile to your face. 

[v_ware]

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

solstickan wrote...
I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

Exactly. It is incredibly hurtfull to be denied the way you are. Everywhere you turn even your even family doesn't agree with your existance.

This might be exagerating, not every homosexual has to deal with it being that bad. But every homosexual has to deal with it from time to time.

Serious question then. How does a game that panders to you help you deal with stuff like that?

Thing is that we shouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Why should homosexuality be banned from a game? Because it would make us stronger? That's just a stuppid assesment.

It's like DA3 being entirely same-sex relations. Why shouldn't it be that way? It helps you deal with homosexuality.

[moilami]

solstickan wrote...

moilami wrote...

Then you must read very selectively BW forums.

I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

If you can't handle a few anonymous people arguing against you on the internet, then tough luck. I feel no sympathy for you whatsoever.

Haha, what a surprise.

Will maybe have to try to do the same towards people like you.

[Lord Sullivan]

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

solstickan wrote...
I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

Exactly. It is incredibly hurtfull to be denied the way you are. Everywhere you turn even your even family doesn't agree with your existance.

This might be exagerating, not every homosexual has to deal with it being that bad. But every homosexual has to deal with it from time to time.

Serious question then. How does a game that panders to you help you deal with stuff like that?

Thing is that we shouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Why should homosexuality be banned from a game? Because it would make us stronger? That's just a stuppid assesment.

It's like DA3 being entirely same-sex relations. Why shouldn't it be that way? It helps you deal with homosexuality.

Hey, besides the occasional literal troll, no is suggesting that "Gay be banned" from games.

[Nashiktal]

I don't usually mind when some of the companions/squadmates hit on me in game. I just didn't like how some of the "denial" scenes were handles in game.

Anders in DA2 is a BIG example of this. Anders hits on me in game... Well i'm flattered Anders, I really am, but i'm straight an aiming to romance another character. You are given three options... Yes, not yes, but it continues the romance anyways if you choose it, and "stomp on his heart."

I chose to stop the romance in its tracks, and Anders flips out on me. "EVERYONE IS TRYING TO CONTROL MY THOUGHTS NOW, EVEN YOU!!!"

So the conversations went from talking about Anders special problems with Mr. J, to immediately hitting on me, to him cursing at me about mind controlling him. (lol wut?) So our cordial relationship goes south, I decide never to use him again seeing how he is. (How can be fight on the side of justice when he acts so....)

THAT upset me during that scene, not that Anders was homosexual. Being hit on by gay guys (Straight here) is actually a compliment to me. So i'm attractive to guys and girls? Awesome! I just don't like how the scenes themselves are handled.

[Lord Sullivan]

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

solstickan wrote...
I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

Exactly. It is incredibly hurtfull to be denied the way you are. Everywhere you turn even your even family doesn't agree with your existance.

This might be exagerating, not every homosexual has to deal with it being that bad. But every homosexual has to deal with it from time to time.

Serious question then. How does a game that panders to you help you deal with stuff like that?

Thing is that we shouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Why should homosexuality be banned from a game? Because it would make us stronger? That's just a stuppid assesment.

It's like DA3 being entirely same-sex relations. Why shouldn't it be that way? It helps you deal with homosexuality.

We don't need video game real life subject induced therapy, thank you.

[AkiKishi]

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

solstickan wrote...
I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

Exactly. It is incredibly hurtfull to be denied the way you are. Everywhere you turn even your even family doesn't agree with your existance.

This might be exagerating, not every homosexual has to deal with it being that bad. But every homosexual has to deal with it from time to time.

Serious question then. How does a game that panders to you help you deal with stuff like that?

Thing is that we shouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Why should homosexuality be banned from a game? Because it would make us stronger? That's just a stuppid assesment.

It's like DA3 being entirely same-sex relations. Why shouldn't it be that way? It helps you deal with homosexuality.

Not what I meant, but I'll clarify.

Having everyone be everything is pandering. Real life is not that way. I really wanted to do Tali as femshep, but that's not a part of her character. It made her more a person of her own and not a plaything.

Would I object to a gay character ? No , I think a gay character would be much more of a step forward than everyone being everything.
Would I object to everyone being gay ? Yes. That's just not representative enough to be believable.

[AngelicMachinery]

Nashiktal wrote...

I don't usually mind when some of the companions/squadmates hit on me in game. I just didn't like how some of the "denial" scenes were handles in game.

Anders in DA2 is a BIG example of this. Anders hits on me in game... Well i'm flattered Anders, I really am, but i'm straight an aiming to romance another character. You are given three options... Yes, not yes, but it continues the romance anyways if you choose it, and "stomp on his heart."

I chose to stop the romance in its tracks, and Anders flips out on me. "EVERYONE IS TRYING TO CONTROL MY THOUGHTS NOW, EVEN YOU!!!"

So the conversations went from talking about Anders special problems with Mr. J, to immediately hitting on me, to him cursing at me about mind controlling him. (lol wut?) So our cordial relationship goes south, I decide never to use him again seeing how he is. (How can be fight on the side of justice when he acts so....)

THAT upset me during that scene, not that Anders was homosexual. Being hit on by gay guys (Straight here) is actually a compliment to me. So i'm attractive to guys and girls? Awesome! I just don't like how the scenes themselves are handled.

Nothing Ander's does is logical,  he's a crazy person.

[solstickan]

Burton999 wrote...

Usually I don`t leave my opinion,concernings games, on forums. But in this rare case i just have too. After 10 hours gameplay in DA2 I was exposed for what I would call a "gay-trap". It was late night and I was tired and I hit the wrong choice in the wrong dialog.
I`m hetero and I have 3 friends that are gay. Their sexual preferences doesn`t consern me and I have nothing against them. I`m saying this because alot of people who are gay or bi feel that what I`m saying in this thread might be short sighted or that it might be a narrow point of view. I`m not and I don`t.

But my point is that when I`m playing a game like DA2, I would like to develop a character, create certain abilities, stances,traits etc. which fits my wishes. Just being inattentive for a minute and my character heads toward a gayish orientation which is not my preference. That is what I would call a devestasting way to develop a character.

Gay, hetero or bi, I think we all can agree that our sexual orientation means a lot to us in real life. And so does it in a 50 hour long game, in my opinion. I honestly must say that it ruined my game experience and I had to use a savegame which left me two hours behind schedule. Not that it matters that much, but it also leaves me with a totally different point of view of the game. Now I must take care what I say all the time, to whom I say it, at what time i say it, or I risk ending up with a ##"¤¤" in my "#¤¤¤(pardon my language). I lost focus on the history and I ended up never taking with me Anders nor Fenris. It`s kind of sad, because they are two persons out of 6 members. The game offers great dialogs with your crew members and now I missed 33,3% of these dialogs. It`s not realistic the way BW has developed the game dialogs concerning sexuality. It just "#¤"#4`s up the game.

To point this out. I still have 3 gay friends in real life, and I don`t risk having a sexual relationship by only talking to or being nice to them.

I must point out that I have only played the game once.

BW, where did you leave your magic?

Was it really that hard to imagine the giant glowy heart indicating something more than just a friendly remark? And why don't you just end the romance by pressing the equally blatant broken heart symbol? Then you are completely safe from "ending up with a ##"¤¤" in my "#¤¤¤". 

[v_ware]

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

solstickan wrote...
I was talking about the world outside of the Interwebs. You know, the one where teenagers kill themselves because their family won't accept who they are, and where children are beaten for holding hands with someone of the same sex.

Exactly. It is incredibly hurtfull to be denied the way you are. Everywhere you turn even your even family doesn't agree with your existance.

This might be exagerating, not every homosexual has to deal with it being that bad. But every homosexual has to deal with it from time to time.

Serious question then. How does a game that panders to you help you deal with stuff like that?

Thing is that we shouldn't have to deal with this stuff. Why should homosexuality be banned from a game? Because it would make us stronger? That's just a stuppid assesment.

It's like DA3 being entirely same-sex relations. Why shouldn't it be that way? It helps you deal with homosexuality.

Not what I meant, but I'll clarify.

Having everyone be everything is pandering. Real life is not that way. I really wanted to do Tali as femshep, but that's not a part of her character. It made her more a person of her own and not a plaything.

Would I object to a gay character ? No , I think a gay character would be much more of a step forward than everyone being everything.
Would I object to everyone being gay ? Yes. That's just not representative enough to be believable.

Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

Modifié par v_ware, 25 mars 2011 - 08:27 .

[c3701]

solstickan wrote...

And a fourth response was this: even if such a button was implemented, Anders would still hit on you, since he does not yet know what sexual preference you have. Or would you rather he be made Tranquil? Just so you wouldn't have to deal with pressing one button and receiving a couple of rivalry points (which can be "rewon" in no time). 

Plus, if you don't act nice to him he doesn't come on to you at all. The overwhelming feelings of disgust can be completely avoided, who knew?! (At least, this is what my memory tells me. In my first playthrough as an aggressive I never remember having to choose a broken heart in a conversation with him.)

Ander's would know your sex because the game knows your sex.  If male, he would know to hit on you if the game option was set to gay or all, and not to hit on you if the option was set to straight or none.

You are exaggerating to make a point.  I never said or implied a "Tranquil" option.  I never said anything about "overwhelming feelings of disgust".  I've read the aggressive option thing.  I know that you can break it as well.  I simply want the option up front.  I know that you and many others find that hurtful.  It's not meant to be. 

[Zkyire]

Burton999 wrote...

Usually I don`t leave my opinion,concernings games, on forums. But in this rare case i just have too. After 10 hours gameplay in DA2 I was exposed for what I would call a "gay-trap". It was late night and I was tired and I hit the wrong choice in the wrong dialog.
I`m hetero and I have 3 friends that are gay. Their sexual preferences doesn`t consern me and I have nothing against them. I`m saying this because alot of people who are gay or bi feel that what I`m saying in this thread might be short sighted or that it might be a narrow point of view. I`m not and I don`t.

But my point is that when I`m playing a game like DA2, I would like to develop a character, create certain abilities, stances,traits etc. which fits my wishes. Just being inattentive for a minute and my character heads toward a gayish orientation which is not my preference. That is what I would call a devestasting way to develop a character.

Gay, hetero or bi, I think we all can agree that our sexual orientation means a lot to us in real life. And so does it in a 50 hour long game, in my opinion. I honestly must say that it ruined my game experience and I had to use a savegame which left me two hours behind schedule. Not that it matters that much, but it also leaves me with a totally different point of view of the game. Now I must take care what I say all the time, to whom I say it, at what time i say it, or I risk ending up with a ##"¤¤" in my "#¤¤¤(pardon my language). I lost focus on the history and I ended up never taking with me Anders nor Fenris. It`s kind of sad, because they are two persons out of 6 members. The game offers great dialogs with your crew members and now I missed 33,3% of these dialogs. It`s not realistic the way BW has developed the game dialogs concerning sexuality. It just "#¤"#4`s up the game.

To point this out. I still have 3 gay friends in real life, and I don`t risk having a sexual relationship by only talking to or being nice to them.

I must point out that I have only played the game once.

BW, where did you leave your magic?

Isn't that entirely your fault?

If you then wanted to pursue Merrill, that same lapse in attention when talking to Isabella could lead to a relationship which is not your preference.

ie. Pay attention.

[Zkyire]

Captain Jazz wrote...

It always confuses me when people bring up the idea that homosexuality is unnatural... even if it was, so what? I am sitting in a house on the edge of my bed (because my desk is rather cluttered right now) using the keyboard on my laptop to type in a cmment on a forum on the internet while drinking a glass of lemonade, listening to the radio and wearing my clothes... and we're griping about what's natural? Seriously?
Homosexuality is natural... but why does it matter either way? Should we abandon clothes? I live in England, have mercy!

Giggity!

/agree entirely. If people have a valid reason, go ahead, but I hate the "It's unnatural" bs they spout whilst on the internet -  An unnatural, artificial construct.

Just.. facepalm.