2875 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Lord Sullivan wrote...
If by Abnormal he meant "Freak" then I'd agree with your assesment, however it might be saying the way I read it as not "Normal"... "Not of the Norm" "Outside of the norm" "Different"

Putting on my copyeditor's visor for a minute, it's very rare in ordinary language to see "abnormal" used for something that isn't somehow suspect. You don't see someone write that a baseball player is hitting an "abnormal" number of home runs unless the writer's going on to imply  that the guy's maybe using steroids, for instance.

It's related to how "notorious' and "famous" aren't typically used the same way, even though you wouldn't necessarily get that from a dictionary definition.

[supertouch]

any moron who thinks sexual orientation is a choice should apply that logic to his or her own sexuality. some are just repulsed by the nature of homosexual relationships and demeanors. they all tend to obscure their aversion with a variety of defenses so the bigotry will seem a little more harmless.

[solstickan]

c3701 wrote...

Ander's would know your sex because the game knows your sex.  If male, he would know to hit on you if the game option was set to gay or all, and not to hit on you if the option was set to straight or none.

HE would NOT know this, because he is still an in-game character. How do you not see how illogical this would be? Anders wants closeness, and (nice) Hawke appeals to him, which is why he will be drawn to him no matter what sexual preference you would have chosen for him at the beginning of the game.

[AkiKishi]

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?

If you can't get the person you want (like with Tali) consider it a lesson for life.

[v_ware]

c3701 wrote...
Ander's would know your sex because the game knows your sex.  If male, he would know to hit on you if the game option was set to gay or all, and not to hit on you if the option was set to straight or none.

You are exaggerating to make a point.  I never said or implied a "Tranquil" option.  I never said anything about "overwhelming feelings of disgust".  I've read the aggressive option thing.  I know that you can break it as well.  I simply want the option up front.  I know that you and many others find that hurtful.  It's not meant to be. 

Let me just say: I appreciate you don't mean to be offensive.

But for homosexuals it easily comes across as offensive and hurtfull. In real life we see enough prejudice aimed against homosexuals. Our very being.

That's why some of us go overboard in their defense. But I personally think most of us have every right. Some of the people here are stating that we are immoral, unnatural, abnormal, disgusting and so on. You have no idea how much suffering is inflicted by people being ignorant and prejudiced, even family and friends.

[catabuca]

Nashiktal wrote...

I don't usually mind when some of the companions/squadmates hit on me in game. I just didn't like how some of the "denial" scenes were handles in game.

Anders in DA2 is a BIG example of this. Anders hits on me in game... Well i'm flattered Anders, I really am, but i'm straight an aiming to romance another character. You are given three options... Yes, not yes, but it continues the romance anyways if you choose it, and "stomp on his heart."

I chose to stop the romance in its tracks, and Anders flips out on me. "EVERYONE IS TRYING TO CONTROL MY THOUGHTS NOW, EVEN YOU!!!"

So the conversations went from talking about Anders special problems with Mr. J, to immediately hitting on me, to him cursing at me about mind controlling him. (lol wut?) So our cordial relationship goes south, I decide never to use him again seeing how he is. (How can be fight on the side of justice when he acts so....)

THAT upset me during that scene, not that Anders was homosexual. Being hit on by gay guys (Straight here) is actually a compliment to me. So i'm attractive to guys and girls? Awesome! I just don't like how the scenes themselves are handled.

I chose the 'not yes' heart, as you call it. The one where you say "It's unexpected" and "It doesn't mean I want you to stop." I can confirm it does not 'continue' a romance in any way shape or form. I happen to be quite happily romancing Fenris in this game, and since I have not clicked any other hearts since that point when talking to Anders our relationship has never moved beyond anything but friendship.

But as a poster above pointed out -- Anders is very troubled. He reacts that way because it is part of his character to do so. I thought we were all for characters who act consistently? His reaction to being shot down after he's professed his attraction for you is in keeping with his rather unbalanced personality more generally. 

[AlanC9]

solstickan wrote...
Was it really that hard to imagine the giant glowy heart indicating something more than just a friendly remark? And why don't you just end the romance by pressing the equally blatant broken heart symbol? Then you are completely safe from "ending up with a ##"¤¤" in my "#¤¤¤". 

Did people get themselves into this sort of situation in DAO? I'm not talking about being ninja-romanced by Leliana, since that's a bug in her scripts. I mean being unable to figure out what they're making the PC do.

[v_ware]

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?

If you can't get the person you want (like with Tali) consider it a lesson for life.

Oh all right. I agree.

I found the system in DA:O perfect and this one kinda awkard. I was happy with Zevran being the only gay  option.

What I don't agree with is how some people deal with the homosexual content e. r. NO ****** BUTTON.
The reaction was the same to Zevran. A lot of people were killing him from the start just because he was gay. That's just an awfull message to homosexuals.

[Siansonea]

Burton999 wrote...

Usually I don`t leave my opinion,concernings games, on forums. But in this rare case i just have too. After 10 hours gameplay in DA2 I was exposed for what I would call a "gay-trap". It was late night and I was tired and I hit the wrong choice in the wrong dialog.
I`m hetero and I have 3 friends that are gay. Their sexual preferences doesn`t consern me and I have nothing against them. I`m saying this because alot of people who are gay or bi feel that what I`m saying in this thread might be short sighted or that it might be a narrow point of view. I`m not and I don`t.

But my point is that when I`m playing a game like DA2, I would like to develop a character, create certain abilities, stances,traits etc. which fits my wishes. Just being inattentive for a minute and my character heads toward a gayish orientation which is not my preference. That is what I would call a devestasting way to develop a character.

Gay, hetero or bi, I think we all can agree that our sexual orientation means a lot to us in real life. And so does it in a 50 hour long game, in my opinion. I honestly must say that it ruined my game experience and I had to use a savegame which left me two hours behind schedule. Not that it matters that much, but it also leaves me with a totally different point of view of the game. Now I must take care what I say all the time, to whom I say it, at what time i say it, or I risk ending up with a ##"¤¤" in my "#¤¤¤(pardon my language). I lost focus on the history and I ended up never taking with me Anders nor Fenris. It`s kind of sad, because they are two persons out of 6 members. The game offers great dialogs with your crew members and now I missed 33,3% of these dialogs. It`s not realistic the way BW has developed the game dialogs concerning sexuality. It just "#¤"#4`s up the game.

To point this out. I still have 3 gay friends in real life, and I don`t risk having a sexual relationship by only talking to or being nice to them.

I must point out that I have only played the game once.

BW, where did you leave your magic?

So reload your last save and redo the conversation, don't get your panties in bunch. I've hit the wrong choice in conversation too, and you know what I did? I reloaded my last save and redid the conversation. Gay trap indeed. So does that mean when I inadvertently told Isabella she could keep a book that the game has a "book-keeping trap". Pfah!

[solstickan]

AlanC9 wrote...

solstickan wrote...
Was it really that hard to imagine the giant glowy heart indicating something more than just a friendly remark? And why don't you just end the romance by pressing the equally blatant broken heart symbol? Then you are completely safe from "ending up with a ##"¤¤" in my "#¤¤¤". 

Did people get themselves into this sort of situation in DAO? I'm not talking about being ninja-romanced by Leliana, since that's a bug in her scripts. I mean being unable to figure out what they're making the PC do.

Well I certainly did, which is why I love the updated dialogue wheel. I especially had trouble with making out humouristic repsonses from cruel ones. Like the one you can say to Morrigan ("You're a shrewd witch"?). It was so random that I thought maybe she will love me more if I say it (because she hated me at the time). But no, it was simply a mean thing to say...

[moilami]

Noobs should learn to RP and chose only options what their chars would do. At least in the first playthrough. Or if they don't want to RP they should at least stop complaining there are IC actions and IC concequences.

This pseudo RPG called DA tries to be an RPG.

When IC concequences are removed of IC actions there really is nothing left to call it even pseudo RPG.

[AkiKishi]

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?

If you can't get the person you want (like with Tali) consider it a lesson for life.

Oh all right. I agree.

I found the system in DA:O perfect and this one kinda awkard. I was happy with Zevran being the only gay  option.

What I don't agree with is how some people deal with the homosexual content e. r. NO ****** BUTTON.
The reaction was the same to Zevran. A lot of people were killing him from the start just because he was gay. That's just an awfull message to homosexuals.

Probably not the best idea to make him the guy who just tried to kill you. That makes him suspicious from the start.

First time I killed him just to be safe.
Next time he just creeped my human noble out.
Third try I found him very interesting even though I did not share his views , my mage took him everywhere and talked to him a lot.

[Nashiktal]

catabuca wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I don't usually mind when some of the companions/squadmates hit on me in game. I just didn't like how some of the "denial" scenes were handles in game.

Anders in DA2 is a BIG example of this. Anders hits on me in game... Well i'm flattered Anders, I really am, but i'm straight an aiming to romance another character. You are given three options... Yes, not yes, but it continues the romance anyways if you choose it, and "stomp on his heart."

I chose to stop the romance in its tracks, and Anders flips out on me. "EVERYONE IS TRYING TO CONTROL MY THOUGHTS NOW, EVEN YOU!!!"

So the conversations went from talking about Anders special problems with Mr. J, to immediately hitting on me, to him cursing at me about mind controlling him. (lol wut?) So our cordial relationship goes south, I decide never to use him again seeing how he is. (How can be fight on the side of justice when he acts so....)

THAT upset me during that scene, not that Anders was homosexual. Being hit on by gay guys (Straight here) is actually a compliment to me. So i'm attractive to guys and girls? Awesome! I just don't like how the scenes themselves are handled.

I chose the 'not yes' heart, as you call it. The one where you say "It's unexpected" and "It doesn't mean I want you to stop." I can confirm it does not 'continue' a romance in any way shape or form. I happen to be quite happily romancing Fenris in this game, and since I have not clicked any other hearts since that point when talking to Anders our relationship has never moved beyond anything but friendship.

But as a poster above pointed out -- Anders is very troubled. He reacts that way because it is part of his character to do so. I thought we were all for characters who act consistently? His reaction to being shot down after he's professed his attraction for you is in keeping with his rather unbalanced personality more generally. 

Problem is that in previous playthroughs I have had character randomly pop up at my door for romance becuase I never cut it off. Merill is a good example, was trying to discover Fenris' romance story (which was suprisingly resistant) and had to stomp on poor merill's heart because of it. I never chose any of the romance options for her.

Anders is troubled. However this kind of "trouble" is quite different from Anders usuall affair. At that point in the game, Anders had shown me to be angry at templars, sad at the corruption of Justice, but otherwise a sarcastic and level individual.

That outburst from nowhere just didn't fit with his character, at least up to that point.

[c3701]

solstickan wrote...

c3701 wrote...

Ander's would know your sex because the game knows your sex.  If male, he would know to hit on you if the game option was set to gay or all, and not to hit on you if the option was set to straight or none.

HE would NOT know this, because he is still an in-game character. How do you not see how illogical this would be? Anders wants closeness, and (nice) Hawke appeals to him, which is why he will be drawn to him no matter what sexual preference you would have chosen for him at the beginning of the game.

I guess because I'm thinking of Anders, as defined by game code, using one or more conditions to generate dialog options.  That did make me laugh.  I was never that immersed.

Edit:  And in my code driven game world, Anders would still be drawn to the protagonist, but as a friend.

Modifié par c3701, 25 mars 2011 - 08:50 .

[v_ware]

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?

If you can't get the person you want (like with Tali) consider it a lesson for life.

Oh all right. I agree.

I found the system in DA:O perfect and this one kinda awkard. I was happy with Zevran being the only gay  option.

What I don't agree with is how some people deal with the homosexual content e. r. NO ****** BUTTON.
The reaction was the same to Zevran. A lot of people were killing him from the start just because he was gay. That's just an awfull message to homosexuals.

Probably not the best idea to make him the guy who just tried to kill you. That makes him suspicious from the start.

First time I killed him just to be safe.
Next time he just creeped my human noble out.
Third try I found him very interesting even though I did not share his views , my mage took him everywhere and talked to him a lot.

Killing him to be safe is logical.
Explicitly stating you killed him because he was gay is not.

[solstickan]

c3701 wrote...

I guess because I'm thinking of Anders, as defined by game code, using one or more conditions to generate dialog options.  That did make me laugh.  I was never that immersed.

Edit:  And in my code driven game world, Anders would still be drawn to the protagonist, but as a friend.

If he is nothing more to you than game code, how can you be offended by him in any way?

[catabuca]

Nashiktal wrote...

Problem is that in previous playthroughs I have had character randomly pop up at my door for romance becuase I never cut it off. Merill is a good example, was trying to discover Fenris' romance story (which was suprisingly resistant) and had to stomp on poor merill's heart because of it. I never chose any of the romance options for her.

Anders is troubled. However this kind of "trouble" is quite different from Anders usuall affair. At that point in the game, Anders had shown me to be angry at templars, sad at the corruption of Justice, but otherwise a sarcastic and level individual.

That outburst from nowhere just didn't fit with his character, at least up to that point.

I'd be really interested to know what options people are choosing in these cases. Because in my current game, as I said, I'm romancing Fenris. I'm currently in act 3. I have everyone else at maximum friendship as well (except Seb, who is at max rivalry), and I have not needed to choose a broken heart symbol with anyone, nor needed shut down any advances at all. I have been nice to all my companions because that's the way my current Hawke rolls (apart from choosing one sarcastic dialogue choice with Isabela in one conversation in act 2), and no one else has turned up at my door or anywhere else trying to get into my pants. So I truly am interested in what we are doing differently that causes you to need to 'stomp on Merrill's heart' or for people to turn up trying to romance you. Because that has not been my experience at all.

[Lord Sullivan]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lord Sullivan wrote...
If by Abnormal he meant "Freak" then I'd agree with your assesment, however it might be saying the way I read it as not "Normal"... "Not of the Norm" "Outside of the norm" "Different"

Putting on my copyeditor's visor for a minute, it's very rare in ordinary language to see "abnormal" used for something that isn't somehow suspect. You don't see someone write that a baseball player is hitting an "abnormal" number of home runs unless the writer's going on to imply  that the guy's maybe using steroids, for instance.

It's related to how "notorious' and "famous" aren't typically used the same way, even though you wouldn't necessarily get that from a dictionary definition.

Well, "abnormal" as always been short for "Not Normal" to me, I could be wrong however, Saying someone is not normal may have to different intents behind the word. One is meant to be mean like "Freak" and one simply means out of the ordinary, different, etc...

Anyhow, I pulled an all nighter and my brain is faster then my fingers or could be the other way around, but I will retire from this thread for now as i had more plesant conversion with the owls then this new bunch with a few Heterophobics.

Catch ya later.

Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 25 mars 2011 - 09:04 .

[Nashiktal]

catabuca wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Problem is that in previous playthroughs I have had character randomly pop up at my door for romance becuase I never cut it off. Merill is a good example, was trying to discover Fenris' romance story (which was suprisingly resistant) and had to stomp on poor merill's heart because of it. I never chose any of the romance options for her.

Anders is troubled. However this kind of "trouble" is quite different from Anders usuall affair. At that point in the game, Anders had shown me to be angry at templars, sad at the corruption of Justice, but otherwise a sarcastic and level individual.

That outburst from nowhere just didn't fit with his character, at least up to that point.

I'd be really interested to know what options people are choosing in these cases. Because in my current game, as I said, I'm romancing Fenris. I'm currently in act 3. I have everyone else at maximum friendship as well (except Seb, who is at max rivalry), and I have not needed to choose a broken heart symbol with anyone, nor needed shut down any advances at all. I have been nice to all my companions because that's the way my current Hawke rolls (apart from choosing one sarcastic dialogue choice with Isabela in one conversation in act 2), and no one else has turned up at my door or anywhere else trying to get into my pants. So I truly am interested in what we are doing differently that causes you to need to 'stomp on Merrill's heart' or for people to turn up trying to romance you. Because that has not been my experience at all.

I'll pay more attention to record my conversation tree's my next playthrough, but I am not the only one experiencing this. I believe Pacifin has also had this problem, and the exact same situation.

Again though aside from a few "glitches" I like this new romance system.

[BiowarEA]

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?.

Yep! Might as well make all the characters hermaphrodites as well then.

[Siansonea]

supertouch wrote...

any moron who thinks sexual orientation is a choice should apply that logic to his or her own sexuality. some are just repulsed by the nature of homosexual relationships and demeanors. they all tend to obscure their aversion with a variety of defenses so the bigotry will seem a little more harmless.

I get the impression a lot of these "it's a choice" types are desperately trying to convince themselves it's a choice, because they're choosing to ignore their inclinations and choosing to be "heterosexual". If they accept that it's NOT a choice, then they have to accept any feelings within themselves that don't fit with their very solidified idea of "proper" sexuality. Sexuality is caught up in feelings of shame and fear for many people, especially younger people. And part of the problem is that we've got a lot of youngsters in here, and many of them simply don't have the life experience to realize that what they've been told by their parents and their pastors doesn't actually bear up to harsh light of reality. They'll learn, or they won't.

[c3701]

v_ware wrote...

Let me just say: I appreciate you don't mean to be offensive.

But for homosexuals it easily comes across as offensive and hurtfull. In real life we see enough prejudice aimed against homosexuals. Our very being.

That's why some of us go overboard in their defense. But I personally think most of us have every right. Some of the people here are stating that we are immoral, unnatural, abnormal, disgusting and so on. You have no idea how much suffering is inflicted by people being ignorant and prejudiced, even family and friends.

Sartre (some philosopher) said, "Hell is other people."  Don't know why I remember that, just do.  People annoy me all the time.  If I can, I ignore them.  If I can't, I figure out a way to deal with them.  I never said those things.  I do not feel the need to try to impose my views on others.  In this instance, I am not trying to do that.  It has nothing to do with someone elses sexuality.  I simply would like the option.  That's all.

[joey_kangaroo]

Isn't Sebastian straight? I'm not sure if this is true, but I think he is straight.

[Seifz]

c3701 wrote...

solstickan wrote...

c3701 wrote...

Ander's would know your sex because the game knows your sex.  If male, he would know to hit on you if the game option was set to gay or all, and not to hit on you if the option was set to straight or none.

HE would NOT know this, because he is still an in-game character. How do you not see how illogical this would be? Anders wants closeness, and (nice) Hawke appeals to him, which is why he will be drawn to him no matter what sexual preference you would have chosen for him at the beginning of the game.

I guess because I'm thinking of Anders, as defined by game code, using one or more conditions to generate dialog options.  That did make me laugh.  I was never that immersed.

Edit:  And in my code driven game world, Anders would still be drawn to the protagonist, but as a friend.

How is this different from including a toggle for whether your character only likes white people or if he's okay with dark-skinned people?  Should we also include sliders for his preference in hair and eye color?  What about accents?  And why stop with sexual attraction?  We can have sliders for how mean he is, how funny he is, and how violent he is!

Yes, we can entirely define our character with some toggles and sliders before we even start the game.  Then, the game can automatically chose dilaogue options for us so we can get right back to the killing!  Awesome!

[v_ware]

joey_kangaroo wrote...

Isn't Sebastian straight? I'm not sure if this is true, but I think he is straight.

Sebastian doesn't do sex. He's abstinent.