2875 réponses à ce sujet

[c3701]

solstickan wrote...

If he is nothing more to you than game code, how can you be offended by him in any way?

I'm not offended by him.  I want to portray myself as straight via a game option.

[v_ware]

c3701 wrote...

solstickan wrote...

If he is nothing more to you than game code, how can you be offended by him in any way?

I'm not offended by him.  I want to portray myself as straight via a game option.

You can. Say no to Anders. Ignore Fenris. Hook up with Isabela or Merril.

[mesmerizedish]

c3701 wrote...

solstickan wrote...

If he is nothing more to you than game code, how can you be offended by him in any way?

I'm not offended by him.  I want to portray myself as straight via a game option.

You can tell Anders that you don't want him thinking about you like that. How is that not good enough?

[c3701]

v_ware wrote...

You can. Say no to Anders. Ignore Fenris. Hook up with Isabela or Merril.

I want an option such that I do not have to explicately tell him.  Don't you have an idea of a dude's sexual orientation without asking him?  The option would allow me to portray that.

[JediMB]

catabuca wrote...

JediMB wrote ...

Plus, Aveline, Bethany and Carver seem to be straight.

Oh honey, Carver is totally in love with Fenris ... everyone knows that [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

I really have to play a Mage character.

I really have to finish my Warrior character.

BioWare really have to fix their damn game, so I can keep playing. >_>

(But I can totally see that, still.)

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Until proven wrong, I still think
that everyone is heterosexual by birth and then decides to be homosexual
at one point - or not.

We're asexual at birth. Sexuality doesn't develop until puberty, if at all.

Some people remain asexual for the entirety of their lives.

[moilami]

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?

If you can't get the person you want (like with Tali) consider it a lesson for life.

Oh all right. I agree.

I found the system in DA:O perfect and this one kinda awkard. I was happy with Zevran being the only gay  option.

What I don't agree with is how some people deal with the homosexual content e. r. NO ****** BUTTON.
The reaction was the same to Zevran. A lot of people were killing him from the start just because he was gay. That's just an awfull message to homosexuals.

Probably not the best idea to make him the guy who just tried to kill you. That makes him suspicious from the start.

First time I killed him just to be safe.
Next time he just creeped my human noble out.
Third try I found him very interesting even though I did not share his views , my mage took him everywhere and talked to him a lot.

Killing him to be safe is logical.
Explicitly stating you killed him because he was gay is not.

Safety of my arse is important for me. However i never though Zevran could put it in danger - but after BW forums I think I should stop being naive.

Anyway, I am out of this dicussion.

Don't care if everyone in game would be gays.

[v_ware]

moilami wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?

If you can't get the person you want (like with Tali) consider it a lesson for life.

Oh all right. I agree.

I found the system in DA:O perfect and this one kinda awkard. I was happy with Zevran being the only gay  option.

What I don't agree with is how some people deal with the homosexual content e. r. NO ****** BUTTON.
The reaction was the same to Zevran. A lot of people were killing him from the start just because he was gay. That's just an awfull message to homosexuals.

Probably not the best idea to make him the guy who just tried to kill you. That makes him suspicious from the start.

First time I killed him just to be safe.
Next time he just creeped my human noble out.
Third try I found him very interesting even though I did not share his views , my mage took him everywhere and talked to him a lot.

Killing him to be safe is logical.
Explicitly stating you killed him because he was gay is not.

Safety of my arse is important for me. However i never though Zevran could put it in danger - but after BW forums I think I should stop being naive.

Anyway, I am out of this dicussion.

Don't care if everyone in game would be gays.

So now you are basically saying gays rape straight guys. classy.

Modifié par v_ware, 25 mars 2011 - 09:24 .

[Aris_Khandr]

c3701 wrote...

I want an option such that I do not have to explicately tell him.  Don't you have an idea of a dude's sexual orientation without asking him?  The option would allow me to portray that.

That's not how life works, though.  There are people you would talk to every day and not know that they're gay or bi unless they mentioned it.

Anders fancies you, and it doesn't hurt anyone to ask.  You say no, and it is over.  That's hardly a threat to your masculinity.

[Seifz]

c3701 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

You can. Say no to Anders. Ignore Fenris. Hook up with Isabela or Merril.

I want an option such that I do not have to explicately tell him.  Don't you have an idea of a dude's sexual orientation without asking him?  The option would allow me to portray that.

I hear that gay people have the best gaydar...

Personally, I never assume anything about someone's sexuality.  Everyone is asexual until they tell me otherwise.  Or are you just stereotyping?

[c3701]

Aris_Khandr wrote...

That's not how life works, though.  There are people you would talk to every day and not know that they're gay or bi unless they mentioned it.

Anders fancies you, and it doesn't hurt anyone to ask.  You say no, and it is over.  That's hardly a threat to your masculinity.

Ok, last response.  True, evidently he does.  And I would like an option that he doesn't.  I'm not going to sway the people responding.  I hope that BW sees it my way for future installments.  If they don't, nothing I can do about it.

[iceman228433]

I agree i don't even want to talk to the anime elf dude and Anders it is just creepy as hell. They need an option for yo man i ain't like that.

[Aris_Khandr]

iceman228433 wrote...

I agree i don't even want to talk to the anime elf dude and Anders it is just creepy as hell. They need an option for yo man i ain't like that.

They do have the option.  It's called "Just say no".

[moilami]

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Oh sorry for misunderstanding you.

Not everyone in this game is gay. They are bi. Big difference there. And 2 out of 4 don't even mention their sexuality if you don't flirt with them. (Merril/ Fenris)
So I don't really get the problem. 

That's what I mean by everyone is everything. What is that term ? Hawkesexual? 

Is that really better than having characters with defined sexualities of all types?

If you can't get the person you want (like with Tali) consider it a lesson for life.

Oh all right. I agree.

I found the system in DA:O perfect and this one kinda awkard. I was happy with Zevran being the only gay  option.

What I don't agree with is how some people deal with the homosexual content e. r. NO ****** BUTTON.
The reaction was the same to Zevran. A lot of people were killing him from the start just because he was gay. That's just an awfull message to homosexuals.

Probably not the best idea to make him the guy who just tried to kill you. That makes him suspicious from the start.

First time I killed him just to be safe.
Next time he just creeped my human noble out.
Third try I found him very interesting even though I did not share his views , my mage took him everywhere and talked to him a lot.

Killing him to be safe is logical.
Explicitly stating you killed him because he was gay is not.

Safety of my arse is important for me. However i never though Zevran could put it in danger - but after BW forums I think I should stop being naive.

Anyway, I am out of this dicussion.

Don't care if everyone in game would be gays.

So now you are basically saying gays rape straight guys. classy.

I don't speculate what he would do and I will still have to think does IRL threats transfer to DA setting.

You have anyway said something like "you think gay people have all the rights to go over the edge".

That is enough said.

[elimccl]

My opinion on everyone being bisexual is that it seemed to me to be a design decision, so everyone could have whatever they wanted to have. I didn't think this was a good thing. I'll explain why.

I felt like it made a joke out of something that's very important to each of us: sexuality. By making everyone bi, this did give the impression that it was a design decision, not a character trait. This, to me, reduced the value of their personalities and characters. I don't see bisexual people are being less respectable, obviously. The idea is that when the writers don't commit to anything regarding what their characters like or don't like on such an important subject, it makes them feel artificial and soulless.

[Sharn01]

Nashiktal wrote...

I don't usually mind when some of the companions/squadmates hit on me in game. I just didn't like how some of the "denial" scenes were handles in game.

Anders in DA2 is a BIG example of this. Anders hits on me in game... Well i'm flattered Anders, I really am, but i'm straight an aiming to romance another character. You are given three options... Yes, not yes, but it continues the romance anyways if you choose it, and "stomp on his heart."

I chose to stop the romance in its tracks, and Anders flips out on me. "EVERYONE IS TRYING TO CONTROL MY THOUGHTS NOW, EVEN YOU!!!"

So the conversations went from talking about Anders special problems with Mr. J, to immediately hitting on me, to him cursing at me about mind controlling him. (lol wut?) So our cordial relationship goes south, I decide never to use him again seeing how he is. (How can be fight on the side of justice when he acts so....)

THAT upset me during that scene, not that Anders was homosexual. Being hit on by gay guys (Straight here) is actually a compliment to me. So i'm attractive to guys and girls? Awesome! I just don't like how the scenes themselves are handled.

I would consider that a legitimate complaint even if I or the writers themselves would disagree with your assessment, Anders is pretty crazy after all, and a small penalty to friendship is easily recoverable if your going for a friendship perferction run or something. 

Thats not what most of this thread has been based on though, most of it is " I dont want no gays in my game, they are immoral and evil and I cant be exposed to them because its far worse to even see five seconds of gay in a game then to have a game about wholesale slaughter and oppression."

[MaximusPhoenix]

c3701 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

You can. Say no to Anders. Ignore Fenris. Hook up with Isabela or Merril.

I want an option such that I do not have to explicately tell him.  Don't you have an idea of a dude's sexual orientation without asking him?  The option would allow me to portray that.

I don't assume anyone's sexual orientation unless they specifically tell me, one way or the other.

I understand games are fantasy and obviously not an accurate portrayal of RL, but with DA2, there are obvious similarities to RL situations. I think that is one of the underlying themes in this game, and with that being said, people walking ramdomly down the street don't wear giant signs on their body that says "I'm straight!" or "I'm gay!" or "I'm bi so anyone and everyone hit on me!"; that just seems so unrealistic to do IRL and in a game as well.

[AODMG]

Do I need to point out the hypocrisy in this thread? MOST of the heterosexual people in this thread are merely uncomfortable with the homosexual presence in game, and the original article is very misleading.

I can pull you up at least five articles where David said they would NEVER make all or most of the love interests bisexual, as he said part of their personality is their sexuality. Personally that point still ticks me off, but that is off topic.

Point is, this is quite a bit of unjustified rage. If you are a homosexual and the only options are hetero, you would be slightly uncomfortable/un-happy... hell some people were demanding certain characters types. So is it converse that something that by and large is hardwired into people as uncomfortable/unnatural makes them feel... uncomfortable?

*Sigh* you can find plenty of studies to either facet of a biological argument. The middle line is simple though. Similar to other birth defects (because from an evolutionary standpoint it is, it ends a gene line (sadly in some cases, many gays I know would make, or make better parents)) homosexuality is apparent in animal species apart from humans. The more overpopulated, healthy, and "wealthy" (wealth defined as abundance of resources, not monetary) the more statistically likely homosexuality appears to be. It could be random, or a genetically built in population cap. Singularly at humanity's doorstep is the apparent increase in the chance of occurrence in a highly sexualized environment.

In honest answers yes, for many, many, MANY people ******-sexuality is NOT a choice. Then there are the hedonists who just go around and screw over everyone (pardon the pun) in this debate with their practices.

People, breathe. Hetero-buddies... Gays are not going to kidnap and indoctrinate you, or put an end to our society. Gays.... it is okay, you now have nearly have equal rights in most major countries, with progression toward full equality, and a few idiots and or squeamish people "don't hurt no-body" (Rage bad, playing ******-phobic card incessantly bad, mmk?).

Edit Paragraph: ***One problem here is an attitude from some of the homosexual posters. They are telling heterosexuals that straights cannot understand that it is not a choice, because they aren't gay, as well as several things that go along with that. On the opposite hand however, many are acting like they know what it is to be straight. By your own token, you have never been heterosexual, and thus have no idea how WE feel or think. You may want to think about that position. Either experience and environment can teach you what it means to be straight, and vice versa, or neither. Trying to call it one way is both prejudice and elitism.***

(For all biblical arguments, read the bible. Yes it says homosexuality is a sin. It also says to treat another man unkindly, or judge him, or to show him anything but kindness is a sin. It in fact says everyone sins. So... yes. (Bible referenced as most frequently called upon religion is Christianity. Islam preaches the same thing. Hinduism, Buddhism, and most other religions don't truly care. Judasim on the other hand... Okay, point conceded)


Have a very nice day all!

(Edit: Made post less offensive (or I think it is now). Also needed to add ***'ed paragraph)

Modifié par AODMG, 25 mars 2011 - 10:44 .

[MaximusPhoenix]

elimccl wrote...

My opinion on everyone being bisexual is that it seemed to me to be a design decision, so everyone could have whatever they wanted to have. I didn't think this was a good thing. I'll explain why.

I felt like it made a joke out of something that's very important to each of us: sexuality. By making everyone bi, this did give the impression that it was a design decision, not a character trait. This, to me, reduced the value of their personalities and characters. I don't see bisexual people are being less respectable, obviously. The idea is that when the writers don't commit to anything regarding what their characters like or don't like on such an important subject, it makes them feel artificial and soulless.

I found the dialogue between most of the romances very believable, but I also went through and read every bit of side info in each romance before accepting the final option to advance it.

[Captain_Obvious]

Bravo to David Gaider for his response to the straight male fan. Since I am not a straight male, I am quite relieved that Bioware has chosen to cater to everyone, and not only the straight males.

[Sharn01]

c3701 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

You can. Say no to Anders. Ignore Fenris. Hook up with Isabela or Merril.

I want an option such that I do not have to explicately tell him.  Don't you have an idea of a dude's sexual orientation without asking him?  The option would allow me to portray that.

Contrary to popular opinion, you cant tell if someone is gay or straight just by looking and talking to them unless you actually bring it up in some way, they could have done this in DA but I dont think they wanted several conversations that danced around the subject for the npc to decide if Hawke was approachable.  Damn it would be awesome if they would make NPC's do things like this though, for a whole lot of reasons, but first they would have to have a lot more conversations and a some that are actually initiated by Hawke.

[Sharn01]

elimccl wrote...

My opinion on everyone being bisexual is that it seemed to me to be a design decision, so everyone could have whatever they wanted to have. I didn't think this was a good thing. I'll explain why.

I felt like it made a joke out of something that's very important to each of us: sexuality. By making everyone bi, this did give the impression that it was a design decision, not a character trait. This, to me, reduced the value of their personalities and characters. I don't see bisexual people are being less respectable, obviously. The idea is that when the writers don't commit to anything regarding what their characters like or don't like on such an important subject, it makes them feel artificial and soulless.

Your basing this theory on what though, the sexual habits of people in the modern day United States?  For all we know bisexuality may be a frequent occurence in Thedas, the average person, human, already has lots of other things to hate on, elves, mages, qunari, non andrastians, maybe bisexuality and even homosexuality just ducked under the hate radar with the citizenry having so many other things to hate.

[Darkhour]

Sharn01 wrote...

c3701 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

You can. Say no to Anders. Ignore Fenris. Hook up with Isabela or Merril.

I want an option such that I do not have to explicately tell him.  Don't you have an idea of a dude's sexual orientation without asking him?  The option would allow me to portray that.

Contrary to popular opinion, you cant tell if someone is gay or straight just by looking and talking to them unless you actually bring it up in some way, they could have done this in DA but I dont think they wanted several conversations that danced around the subject for the npc to decide if Hawke was approachable. 

Like... Zevran?  He tests the waters.

[JironGhrad]

Sharn01 wrote...

Thats not what most of this thread has been based on though, most of it is " I dont want no gays in my game, they are immoral and evil and I cant be exposed to them because its far worse to even see five seconds of gay in a game then to have a game about wholesale slaughter and oppression."

You obviously haven't actually read most of this thread if you think that's true. There have been some "inappropriately out there" types on both sides of the argument but most (I'd estimate it at around 80%) of the posting has been relatively reasonable, if not strictly on-topic.

The vast majority of straight players, who've expressed any opinion at all, simply want to avoid being hit on by the guys in the game. I'd argue that most straight guys feel the same way about it in real life too, and would prefer to avoid being hit on by unattractive women as well. By the same token, that some percentage of guys are of sufficiently poor class to hit on women who aren't interested, it doesn't mean the women don't also prefer not to be hit on in that fashion. You have to put up with the unwanted attention in real life, why in a game too? The desire to avoid it doesn't make you homophobic or sexist (I'm looking at the ladies here)...

[elimccl]

Sharn01 wrote...

Your basing this theory on what though, the sexual habits of people in the modern day United States?  For all we know bisexuality may be a frequent occurence in Thedas, the average person, human, already has lots of other things to hate on, elves, mages, qunari, non andrastians, maybe bisexuality and even homosexuality just ducked under the hate radar with the citizenry having so many other things to hate.

Part of telling a story is understanding the perspectives of your audience. If you make things too alien, you achieve disconnect. There's a careful balance between introducing fantastic elements and outright denying conventional logic. I'm not saying they can't all be bisexual in their world, or even ours. Yet, if you do that, you're obviously going to have confused players, or players who simply can't take it seriously because, yes, that's how it works in reality. Generally, the more alien you make characters to real people, the greater the empathetic distance there is. Again, there are obviously bisexuals in reality, but they aren't exactly flying out of the woodwork. It seems obvious to me that it was a design decision, not a writing decision. That's the main problem.

[Eterna]

c3701 wrote...

v_ware wrote...

You can. Say no to Anders. Ignore Fenris. Hook up with Isabela or Merril.

I want an option such that I do not have to explicately tell him.  Don't you have an idea of a dude's sexual orientation without asking him?  The option would allow me to portray that.

 That Won't ever happen.