2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

ReconTeam wrote...

That group (not all) of gay/lesbian players who demanded gay content in DA:O, then took it to the next level in DA2 by wanting everybody to be bisexual. Yet they don't care how this negatively effects the quality of the writing.

The quality of the writing? Does the fact the game plays differently depending on who your main character is imply it's badly written? That would contradict a lot of other posts on these forums, at the very least.

[c3701]

City6 wrote...

Two lines is an odd definition of "constantly". Especially when indicating "Ummm, no thanks" nips it in the bud.

Isabella tries to bed you far more often and far more graphically.

You must be incredibly sensitive to brief same-sex flirtation. Funny.

Actually Isabella is a bit disgusting.  I could go for a "no tramp" option as well. 

Some people would rather not have certain content.  Some people are offended that certain people do not want said content and therefore must be such and such.  Blah blah.  I think it's been said enough that the developers get the picture.

[Dr. Stephen J. Krune III]

The Angry One wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
Because it's an option that only appeals to bigots who can't even deal with the IDEA.
Yet again. You have the option to say no and nothing will come of it.

So you finally play the card. I am a "bigot" because I don't want this content in my game? Get over yourself.

You simply don't want such an option at the start of the game becaues you have no respect for anybody who doesn't share your politically correct opinion.

You're not a bigot if you want no part of it. You're a bigot if you want to COMPLETELY ERASE IT BECAUSE IT SOMEHOW OFFENDS YOU.
You are demanding the latter.

I will repeat until you understand: You have the option to say no. You have the option to have no gay romance whatsoever. Why is this not enough for you.

If you ask me he shouldn't have the option to exclude gay characters from his association. That is bigotry right there, the desire to wish homosexuals didn't exist is at the very crux of homophobia. How can you accept that he has a right for no gay people to be near him?

[Dark83]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dark83 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

So tell me again why is a "no homosexual" option at the start of a game a bad idea?

For the same reason why a "no black people" option in restaurants is a bad idea.

That's not the same thing. 

The implimentation of the option is an implicit endorsement of intolerance.

[Inquisitor Recon]

v_ware wrote...
Because it would mean a stigma on homosexuality from the start of the game. Homosexuals in a game or any other context are no offensive content (just because they hit on you) and should therefore not have an off button. That's literally saying: I don't want you to exist. Other people have felt the same way about some groups of people. You know the examples. (For refference: No blacks, No jews...)

And I'm not personally attacking you. I'm just frustrated with your ignorance.

First of all stop comparing homosexuality to race, it is a completely inaccurate comparison. In reality such a choice at the start of the game would simply be saying "I don't want to deal with this in my game, I don't want everybody tripping over themselves to sleep with Hawke." Meanwhile you would still have the option to do whatever you want in your game.

You wanted to make all of the characters be bisexual, despite how cheesy that is, and you got it. Yet you refuse to allow people to opt out of this tacked on personality trait to begin with?

[Schurge]

I agree with the OP, everyone shouldn't be bi-sexual, and I have to admit that the fact that they were pissed me off.

Sometimes bi-sexual makes sense, like in the cases of Zevran and Isabella (both sex addicts)... but Anders? Really? Bioware needs to man up and make straight, and homosexual characters with the occassional bi-sexual when it makes sense. I don't care if you call me homophobic, or intolerant, or ignorant, its just something that has been bothering me that I didn't feel I needed to make my own thread about.

Having everyone be bisexual is both unrealistic and selling out. It cheapens all of the characters and their romances to boot. In Dragon Age 3 I don't want everyone to be bi-sexual.

Modifié par Schurge, 24 mars 2011 - 09:14 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Galad22 wrote...
How so? I am not asking them to turn off content just because it might offend my sensibilities.

You asked for this content to start with and then you pretend to be outraged when people don't like the effects.
"I want this and if you disagree your a homophobe / bigot / bad person / something."

[Shirosaki17]

I'll just say this on the subject. These issues could have been solved if there had been better writing and more choices. There may also be bugs in the romances, since some of the player's stories about their experiences don't make sense.

All this arguing is pretty much because the writers tried to appeal to all types of people but did so lazily. Or perhaps the developers left out the choices that could have given the players more freedom to play how they want.

Also, Gaider's response was pretty bad. I just don't think people can read through what he's actually saying and stuff. It's probably the reason he's not posting in the forums anymore.

Modifié par Shirosaki17, 24 mars 2011 - 09:16 .

[Dark83]

yuncas wrote...

Who would be "The Ones"?

I thought it was straight women who wanted their male Wardens to sexor Allistar.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

If you ask me he shouldn't have the option to exclude gay characters from his association. That is bigotry right there, the desire to wish homosexuals didn't exist is at the very crux of homophobia. How can you accept that he has a right for no gay people to be near him?

Hmm.  I can remember when this debate was simply about gay players being able to play the game according to their preferences.  Now it's about aversion therapy for straights who aren't tolerant enough?

Modifié par Tantum Dic Verbo, 24 mars 2011 - 09:16 .

[Galad22]

ReconTeam wrote...
You asked for this content to start with and then you pretend to be outraged when people don't like the effects.
"I want this and if you disagree your a homophobe / bigot / bad person / something."

I did not in fact ask for this content, but neither I am in anyway bothered by it. I am not part of the developer team either I am sorry to say.

I just can't figure how you are able to deal with gay people in real life, if you are this bothered by some harmless flirting in a video game.

[Monsteroids]

ReconTeam wrote...

yuncas wrote...
Who would be "The Ones"?

That group (not all) of gay/lesbian players who demanded gay content in DA:O, then took it to the next level in DA2 by wanting everybody to be bisexual. Yet they don't care how this negatively effects the quality of the writing.

It doesn't. It just offends you. You're mixing objective crit with subjective opinion. The fact that someone different, a minority, can enjoy something that should be exclusive to you.

"Different characters/options for the different people 'cause we're different and that difference must be emphasized."

But why? What's with the segregationist attitude?

Modifié par Monsteroids, 24 mars 2011 - 09:19 .

[Kidd]

ReconTeam wrote...

In reality such a choice at the start of the game would simply be saying "I don't want to deal with this in my game, I don't want everybody tripping over themselves to sleep with Hawke." Meanwhile you would still have the option to do whatever you want in your game.

I find dark skin to be easier on the eyes. Should BioWare make a switch for me that makes all NPCs in the game darker in their skin?

Schurge wrote...

Sometimes bi-sexual makes sense, like in the cases of Zevran and Isabella (both sex addicts)... but Anders? Really?

What's odd with Anders being bisexual? Are you implying only "sex addicts" are bisexual?

[The Angry One]

Dr. Stephen J. Krune III wrote...

If you ask me he shouldn't have the option to exclude gay characters from his association. That is bigotry right there, the desire to wish homosexuals didn't exist is at the very crux of homophobia. How can you accept that he has a right for no gay people to be near him?

Well that's my point.
He has the option to rebuff Ander's advances and that's the end of it (Fenris makes no advances on his own) but that's not enough for him, he wants to completely erase that trait from the game so he doesn't have to spend ONE SECOND acknowledging a bisexual character who is attracted to him.
This is absurd.

Modifié par The Angry One, 24 mars 2011 - 09:18 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issues isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character to be bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPC in male/female relationships and we don't se homosexuality in everyday life in this world. Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures? Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves? What is the chantry views on sexuality? Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Hatchetman77's summs it up well.
The problem lies in lack of depth in DA2 character's sexuality. And all romances feel like you pick some random.. creature from a party and end up in bed.. somehow, because of that.
Some things are better left for player's imagination, simple and abstract things maybe. But leaving *anything* of NPC's characters for it is a bad idea.
An example - Flemeth is old mysterious hag that has many daughters and can split up and be at many places.
Ravel Puzzlewell is old mysterious hag that has many daughters and can split up and be at many places *and* she has feelings that are carefully explained in game, as well as her magic, which can be learned, and her other selves which can be interacted with and even killed.
That's the idea of storytelling for ye. If you want Anders to become socipath/bi/terrorist/whatever, he should start game as old Anders, and then become new Anders. That's the only way good writing can be done.

[City6]

ReconTeam wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Because it would mean a stigma on homosexuality from the start of the game. Homosexuals in a game or any other context are no offensive content (just because they hit on you) and should therefore not have an off button. That's literally saying: I don't want you to exist. Other people have felt the same way about some groups of people. You know the examples. (For refference: No blacks, No jews...)

And I'm not personally attacking you. I'm just frustrated with your ignorance.

First of all stop comparing homosexuality to race, it is a completely inaccurate comparison. In reality such a choice at the start of the game would simply be saying "I don't want to deal with this in my game, I don't want everybody tripping over themselves to sleep with Hawke." Meanwhile you would still have the option to do whatever you want in your game.

You wanted to make all of the characters be bisexual, despite how cheesy that is, and you got it. Yet you refuse to allow people to opt out of this tacked on personality trait to begin with?

You're really not understanding the analogy at all. They're not saying "sexuality is trait just like race". They may think that, but they're not arguing it here.

Their argument is that the ability to switch off a chunk of humanity because it personally offends you (be it race, sexuality, gender) is, by definition, saying such a judgement is ethically legitimate in 2011.

It isn't. Saying a game should have a toggle to turn off gay characters is as offensive as saying it should have a toggle to turn off black characters.

It's *not* saying sexuality is the same as race.

You're not following the arguement.

[yuncas]

ReconTeam wrote...

yuncas wrote...
Who would be "The Ones"?

That group (not all) of gay/lesbian players who demanded gay content in DA:O, then took it to the next level in DA2 by wanting everybody to be bisexual. Yet they don't care how this negatively effects the quality of the writing.

I am a straight man. I didn't take any part in those innumerable s/s discussion threads. I think including bisexual characters in both games was an excellent decision. Straight males aren't the only ones to play these games. You might as well retreat into a cave somewhere off in the wilderness if you don't want to be beset by what you percieve as wrong in the world.

And is there really a need to try and make this out as being some kind of gay conspiracy to get more gayness in video games?

[Dr. Stephen J. Krune III]

This thread is making me angry. I think in Dragon Age III, homosexual relationships should be MANDATORY. Let's give the homophobes something to really complain about!

[Captain Jazz]

Schurge wrote...

Sometimes bi-sexual makes sense, like in the cases of Zevran and Isabella (both sex addicts)...

Hi there. Please note that sex addiction and bisexuality are not the same guy. It's possible to be a monosexual sex addict and a chaste bisexual, there is no real correlation.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...
Hmm.  I can remember when this debate was simply about gay players being able to play the game according to their preferences.  Now it's about aversion therapy for straights who aren't tolerant enough?

Lock me up and send me to the politically correct re-education camp! Where is my shovel?

This double standard is absurd. It is okay for gay players to demand everybody be an option (thus everybody is bisexual). Yet I think this cheapens the writing (not everybody is bisexual in the real world) and when I say I don't want such content (an option at the start of the game) I am immediately a bigot.

[Dark83]

ReconTeam wrote...

First of all stop comparing homosexuality to race, it is a completely inaccurate comparison.

They are both things the individual has no control over, for which they are discriminated against. If it is "completely inaccurate", please explain it - as much as you think we respect you and take what you say as fact, we don't.

[v_ware]

ReconTeam wrote...

v_ware wrote...
Because it would mean a stigma on homosexuality from the start of the game. Homosexuals in a game or any other context are no offensive content (just because they hit on you) and should therefore not have an off button. That's literally saying: I don't want you to exist. Other people have felt the same way about some groups of people. You know the examples. (For refference: No blacks, No jews...)

And I'm not personally attacking you. I'm just frustrated with your ignorance.

First of all stop comparing homosexuality to race, it is a completely inaccurate comparison. In reality such a choice at the start of the game would simply be saying "I don't want to deal with this in my game, I don't want everybody tripping over themselves to sleep with Hawke." Meanwhile you would still have the option to do whatever you want in your game.

You wanted to make all of the characters be bisexual, despite how cheesy that is, and you got it. Yet you refuse to allow people to opt out of this tacked on personality trait to begin with?

Since when is "Jew" a race then? It doesn't matter: Black: skincolour, Gay: Sexuality, Jew: Religion. If you're different you get ignorance and hate. That's always the same.

Now you are making it sound like you want a "No sex" button in this game. Make up your mind.

And someone to back me up. (with better English skills)

City6 wrote...
You're really not understanding the analogy at all. They're not saying "sexuality is trait just like race". They may think that, but they're not arguing it here.

Their argument is that the ability to switch off a chunk of humanity because it personally offends you (be it race, sexuality, gender) is, by definition, saying such a judgement is ethically legitimate in 2011.

It isn't. Saying a game should have a toggle to turn off gay characters is as offensive as saying it should have a toggle to turn off black characters.

It's *not* saying sexuality is the same as race.

You're not following the arguement.

Modifié par v_ware, 24 mars 2011 - 09:23 .