2875 réponses à ce sujet

[LukaCrosszeria]

snfonseka wrote...

The romances in Dragon Age 2 are for everyone, says the games lead writer, not just for the straight, male gamer.
Read the full article in here.

What I think what BW has done is totally dumb. They should have introduced some characters as straight, some as bi and some as gay. It is more realistic than turning all the romance-companions into bi characters.  They should have approached this sexuality issue in more creative manner, where the sexuality is part of the characters' personality. For example, Merrill is straight and Isabela is bi.  Well..., BW you have done the character development in your past games in great manner, so don't try to dumb down the character development now.

Please realize something: If your Hawke is male and you romance Anders, then he's gay, not bisexual, no interest in women. Same for Fenris. Merrill will also have no interest in women if your Hawke is male and you romance her. If your Hawke is female, then Fenris and Anders are straight when you romance them and Merrill is gay. The only bisexual one in the game is Isabela. Look at the dialogue for crying out loud.

I really think you should refrain from using the word dumb in your post, because I want to use it so badly now.

Modifié par LukaCrosszeria, 26 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[moilami]

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

DaBreadBoi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issue isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character being bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPCs in male/female relationships and we don't see homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to be aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

QFT. The last sentence pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. Why squander an opportunity to develop a major part of the lore in Thedas? How is sexuality treated in each race? It will certainly say a lot about their respective cultures and add more immersion & depth in the game. Don't get lazy now Bioware; use this!

What I have read from history was that in ancient greece young adult men had to be butt sex suppliers for old men for a period of time.

If it was so, then luckily culture has evolved.

And what. Nowadays teenage girls are suppliers of sex on demand for old men. Prostitution has always existed. Don't generalize. It's a stupid thing to say.

Those butt sex suppliers in ancient greece were not prostitutes but they had to serve in that position. They were more like sex slaves.

No wonder the tradition died. Humanity won!

[LukaCrosszeria]

DaBreadBoi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issue isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character being bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPCs in male/female relationships and we don't see homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to be aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

QFT. The last sentence pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. Why squander an opportunity to develop a major part of the lore in Thedas? How is sexuality treated in each race? It will certainly say a lot about their respective cultures and add more immersion & depth in the game. Don't get lazy now Bioware; use this!

What I said above, for this post too. Your post makes sense, I'll give you that, but you missed the part where they're not all bisexual, only Isabela is.

Bioware does create a world for you to immerse yourself in, and matters like how the elves treat sexuality in their culture would enrich that world. That is beyond the scope of the game though. Consider Bioware's situation, they only have so much resources and time. Which sadly shows.

Modifié par LukaCrosszeria, 26 mars 2011 - 09:39 .

[sleepyowlet]

moilami wrote...

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

DaBreadBoi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issue isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character being bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPCs in male/female relationships and we don't see homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to be aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

QFT. The last sentence pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. Why squander an opportunity to develop a major part of the lore in Thedas? How is sexuality treated in each race? It will certainly say a lot about their respective cultures and add more immersion & depth in the game. Don't get lazy now Bioware; use this!

What I have read from history was that in ancient greece young adult men had to be butt sex suppliers for old men for a period of time.

If it was so, then luckily culture has evolved.

And what. Nowadays teenage girls are suppliers of sex on demand for old men. Prostitution has always existed. Don't generalize. It's a stupid thing to say.

Those butt sex suppliers in ancient greece were not prostitutes but they had to serve in that position. They were more like sex slaves.

No wonder the tradition died. Humanity won!

Wait what? Where did you get that??? I'll have you know that what you are talking about was a relationship between a young man and his mentor. Erotic things did play a certain role, but, as you chose to word it, buttsex wasn't considered compulsive by any means. The older man would choose a younger man who he would help to become someone in politics/society. Some did take liberties with their charges, some didn't. Gods. What are they teaching at school nowadays???
And the young men certainly weren't sex slaves. Where did you get that idea? Mr. Clinton and Miss Lewinsky would be a more appropriate parable.

[moilami]

sleepyowlet wrote...

moilami wrote...

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

DaBreadBoi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issue isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character being bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPCs in male/female relationships and we don't see homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to be aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

QFT. The last sentence pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. Why squander an opportunity to develop a major part of the lore in Thedas? How is sexuality treated in each race? It will certainly say a lot about their respective cultures and add more immersion & depth in the game. Don't get lazy now Bioware; use this!

What I have read from history was that in ancient greece young adult men had to be butt sex suppliers for old men for a period of time.

If it was so, then luckily culture has evolved.

And what. Nowadays teenage girls are suppliers of sex on demand for old men. Prostitution has always existed. Don't generalize. It's a stupid thing to say.

Those butt sex suppliers in ancient greece were not prostitutes but they had to serve in that position. They were more like sex slaves.

No wonder the tradition died. Humanity won!

Wait what? Where did you get that??? I'll have you know that what you are talking about was a relationship between a young man and his mentor. Erotic things did play a certain role, but, as you chose to word it, buttsex wasn't considered compulsive by any means. The older man would choose a younger man who he would help to become someone in politics/society. Some did take liberties with their charges, some didn't. Gods. What are they teaching at school nowadays???
And the young men certainly weren't sex slaves. Where did you get that idea? Mr. Clinton and Miss Lewinsky would be a more appropriate parable.

So very happy of cultural/political evolution in many ways.

Modifié par moilami, 26 mars 2011 - 10:28 .

[PlumPaul93]

moilami wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

moilami wrote...

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

DaBreadBoi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issue isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character being bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPCs in male/female relationships and we don't see homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to be aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

QFT. The last sentence pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. Why squander an opportunity to develop a major part of the lore in Thedas? How is sexuality treated in each race? It will certainly say a lot about their respective cultures and add more immersion & depth in the game. Don't get lazy now Bioware; use this!

What I have read from history was that in ancient greece young adult men had to be butt sex suppliers for old men for a period of time.

If it was so, then luckily culture has evolved.

And what. Nowadays teenage girls are suppliers of sex on demand for old men. Prostitution has always existed. Don't generalize. It's a stupid thing to say.

Those butt sex suppliers in ancient greece were not prostitutes but they had to serve in that position. They were more like sex slaves.

No wonder the tradition died. Humanity won!

Wait what? Where did you get that??? I'll have you know that what you are talking about was a relationship between a young man and his mentor. Erotic things did play a certain role, but, as you chose to word it, buttsex wasn't considered compulsive by any means. The older man would choose a younger man who he would help to become someone in politics/society. Some did take liberties with their charges, some didn't. Gods. What are they teaching at school nowadays???
And the young men certainly weren't sex slaves. Where did you get that idea? Mr. Clinton and Miss Lewinsky would be a more appropriate parable.

So very happy of cultural/political evolution in many ways.

LOL

[Aurica]

I feel this one thing that DA2 did right.  Even though i would never romance Anders or Fenris on either of my Hawkes.   Having the option is good for those who are interested. 

For those that aren't into same sex LI... simply don't click the <3 icon.  Personally, I would prefer companions for not being Hawke-Sexual... keeping to either straight, gay or Bi.   If the game wasn't so rushed, maybe they could have had more companions for DA2, but then again. 
I would rather they spend more development time on making the game longer w/o recycling the dungeon maps.

Modifié par Aurica, 26 mars 2011 - 10:41 .

[Aurica]

moilami wrote...

DaBreadBoi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issue isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character being bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPCs in male/female relationships and we don't see homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to be aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

QFT. The last sentence pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. Why squander an opportunity to develop a major part of the lore in Thedas? How is sexuality treated in each race? It will certainly say a lot about their respective cultures and add more immersion & depth in the game. Don't get lazy now Bioware; use this!

What I have read from history was that in ancient greece young adult men had to be butt sex suppliers for old men for a period of time.

If it was so, then luckily culture has evolved.

This did not just happened in Ancient Greece.  Homosexual relationships also happened in ancient Japan, Korea, & China.  As well as in parts of Indonesia / Polynesia islands before the coming of Western Explorers in the 1800s...

Modifié par Aurica, 26 mars 2011 - 10:46 .

[Tirigon]

Purgatious wrote...

You made no points. The "Well it may..." doesn't stack up against the "is" of all romancible non-sence.

I explained why we don´t see homosexuality open, in  accordance to the society rules. Re-read my posts before, or let´s just drop this topic and I shall file you under "can´t read, not worth talking to". Either way I don´t care.

Origins had it right, women couldn't romance morrigan, Men couldn't romance alistair. It made them seem more real.

No it didn´t. Alistair should have been gay because he seems so gay he could be a poster gay for a parade....

And Morrigan never had a relationship before, so it makes little sense that she has a defined sexuality.

[Tirigon]

Tony77A wrote...

I'm a straight male gamer (main demographic according to that guy) and I agree completely with Gaider, why shouldn't all romances be for everyone?

The guy is basicalllt complaining about options in the game, and options in a game is very seldom a bad idea.

I am glad there are some people like you.

[Tirigon]

moilami wrote...

Those butt sex suppliers in ancient greece were not prostitutes but they had to serve in that position. They were more like sex slaves.

No wonder the tradition died. Humanity won!

Actually, it was forbidden unless those young men did it voluntarily, and they got much in return. Generally, these "sex slaves" as you wrongly call them usually had it much better than anyone else in Greece society.

Don´t get me wrong, I´m not sad that this tradition died out, but don´t spread lies about ancient cultures.

[Curlain]

LukaCrosszeria wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

The romances in Dragon Age 2 are for everyone, says the games lead writer, not just for the straight, male gamer.
Read the full article in here.

What I think what BW has done is totally dumb. They should have introduced some characters as straight, some as bi and some as gay. It is more realistic than turning all the romance-companions into bi characters.  They should have approached this sexuality issue in more creative manner, where the sexuality is part of the characters' personality. For example, Merrill is straight and Isabela is bi.  Well..., BW you have done the character development in your past games in great manner, so don't try to dumb down the character development now.

Please realize something: If your Hawke is male and you romance Anders, then he's gay, not bisexual, no interest in women. Same for Fenris. Merrill will also have no interest in women if your Hawke is male and you romance her. If your Hawke is female, then Fenris and Anders are straight when you romance them and Merrill is gay. The only bisexual one in the game is Isabela. Look at the dialogue for crying out loud.

I really think you should refrain from using the word dumb in your post, because I want to use it so badly now.

That's not entirely true of Fenris, I didn't romance him as a male Hawke and in banters he seems pretty interested in Isabella (and where I had that Hawke romance Merrill) at some point Fenris and Izzy had slept together.  So he definitely isn't gay but rather bi-sexual with a male Hawke (and therefore the same with a female Hawke I assume)

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Those butt sex suppliers in ancient greece were not prostitutes but they had to serve in that position. They were more like sex slaves.

No wonder the tradition died. Humanity won!

Actually, it was forbidden unless those young men did it voluntarily, and they got much in return. Generally, these "sex slaves" as you wrongly call them usually had it much better than anyone else in Greece society.

Don´t get me wrong, I´m not sad that this tradition died out, but don´t spread lies about ancient cultures.

How much did they got paid?


Edit: And were you there to see everything first hand - or from where you got the authority to act like you were?

Modifié par moilami, 26 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[moilami]

Aurica wrote...

moilami wrote...

DaBreadBoi wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

I think some insight into sexuality and culture in this world is necessary. My issue isn't homophobia, it's just having every romancable character being bisexual is just lazy, especially when we see 99% of the NPCs in male/female relationships and we don't see homosexuality in everyday life in this world.  Is homosexuality accepted in this culture, tolerated but frowned upon, and how does this relate across cultures?  Do dwarves have the same views on sexuality as humans or elves?  What is the chantry views on sexuality?  Does a religious person have a different view of homosexuality in this world?

Throughout history views towards sexuality has changed.  In Ancient Greece for example, it was ok for two men to have sex, but it was frowned upon if one male was seen as submissive in the relationship (they both had to be aggressive manly men for the relationship to be ok).  If BioWare is going to keep putting homosexuality in this world we need some kind of reference of what it means to be homosexual in this world.  You don't just put it in the game to get points for being "progressive", you should put it in to say something about your world.  

QFT. The last sentence pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. Why squander an opportunity to develop a major part of the lore in Thedas? How is sexuality treated in each race? It will certainly say a lot about their respective cultures and add more immersion & depth in the game. Don't get lazy now Bioware; use this!

What I have read from history was that in ancient greece young adult men had to be butt sex suppliers for old men for a period of time.

If it was so, then luckily culture has evolved.

This did not just happened in Ancient Greece.  Homosexual relationships also happened in ancient Japan, Korea, & China.  As well as in parts of Indonesia / Polynesia islands before the coming of Western Explorers in the 1800s...

You talk like there would not be homosexual relationships at all anymore except in BW games. I can't assure you that you are wrong.

[MrWakka]

Tirigon wrote...

Purgatious wrote...

You made no points. The "Well it may..." doesn't stack up against the "is" of all romancible non-sence.

I explained why we don´t see homosexuality open, in  accordance to the society rules. Re-read my posts before, or let´s just drop this topic and I shall file you under "can´t read, not worth talking to". Either way I don´t care.

Origins had it right, women couldn't romance morrigan, Men couldn't romance alistair. It made them seem more real.

No it didn´t. Alistair should have been gay because he seems so gay he could be a poster gay for a parade....

And Morrigan never had a relationship before, so it makes little sense that she has a defined sexuality.

So because Alistair didn't fit your stereotype for a straight man, he must be gay.

[Monsteroids]

My god people. It's JUST a character's SEXUAL behavior of all things. Let the people enjoy the character they prefer. I doubt video game sex is that special or sacred and why should it be?

[Eudaemonium]

Mrwakka wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

No it didn´t. Alistair should have been gay because he seems so gay he could be a poster gay for a parade....

And Morrigan never had a relationship before, so it makes little sense that she has a defined sexuality.

So because Alistair didn't fit your stereotype for a straight man, he must be gay.

Also, since when did not being in a relationship before equate to not having a sexual preference? (re: Morrigan).

[v_ware]

moilami wrote...

Edit: And were you there to see everything first hand - or from where you got the authority to act like you were?

Same question to you.

[Apollo Starflare]

I don't get this (massive) debate, I really don't. I'm a heterosexual male gamer and I wasn't even sure who swung which way in the game, I was busy playing the game the way I wanted to play it and let others who want to play it a different way play it that way. Not only do I support the move BioWare made with DA2 but I would champion it in any way I could.

It adds options for replayability depending on what you are comfortable with, and doesn't take any options away. It adds (or should) to the discussions you can have on these boards with people different to yourself who could have experienced the game or a character within it in a completely different way. That is all great stuff. I don't see any drawbacks, it doesn't even mean they are all bi as I understand, Merrill for example isn't bi if you are a male Hawke I believe? Regardless you don't get their full sexual history and are pretty much free to imagine where their preferences lie should such a thing be of concern to you.

Or in other words: Hear hear, Mr Gaider.

[MrWakka]

Eudaemonium wrote...

Mrwakka wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

No it didn´t. Alistair should have been gay because he seems so gay he could be a poster gay for a parade....

And Morrigan never had a relationship before, so it makes little sense that she has a defined sexuality.

So because Alistair didn't fit your stereotype for a straight man, he must be gay.

Also, since when did not being in a relationship before equate to not having a sexual preference? (re: Morrigan).

I guess the bigotry also swings both ways... *puts on sunglasses*

Modifié par Mrwakka, 26 mars 2011 - 02:27 .

[moilami]

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

Edit: And were you there to see everything first hand - or from where you got the authority to act like you were?

Same question to you.

I got the authority from acknowledged history. Whatever it is worth.

You?

[moilami]

Monsteroids wrote...

My god people. It's JUST a character's SEXUAL behavior of all things. Let the people enjoy the character they prefer. I doubt video game sex is that special or sacred and why should it be?

Sexual behaviors are big business.

[v_ware]

moilami wrote...

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

Edit: And were you there to see everything first hand - or from where you got the authority to act like you were?

Same question to you.

I got the authority from acknowledged history. Whatever it is worth.

You?

So you to weren't there first hand too. Your entire argument is as valid as Trigons. Truth will probably be in the middle.

And again. Don't generalize when you discuss, that's just stupid.

Modifié par v_ware, 26 mars 2011 - 02:37 .

[SamimaS]

One Question:

Is David Gaider the navigator or the pilot?

He's had one, He's had two! He's had two more puffs than you!

[moilami]

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

v_ware wrote...

moilami wrote...

Edit: And were you there to see everything first hand - or from where you got the authority to act like you were?

Same question to you.

I got the authority from acknowledged history. Whatever it is worth.

You?

So you to weren't there first hand too. Your entire argument is as valid as Trigons. Truth will probably be in the middle.

And again. Don't generalize when you discuss, that's just stupid.

You can say that if you say all work what historians has done is as valid as Trigons.

GL doing doctorate with that statement.