2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Incantrix]

moilami wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

My theory is that most of the "straight male" demographic is too immature for romances in general.

Seriously, those who don't want s/s romances are homophobic and you know what their bs reason will be? "immersiveness" if I had a nickel for everytime I heard that...

Oi, yet another saying that if you don't want to do gay sex in video games you are homophobic. I thought it would had been old card to use in bashing. But noooo. It just evolves. Now they say "if you don't want to do gay sex in video games you are immature too". 

Not sure if they are serious. But anything is possible.

God help us.

No.

I'm saying that apparently, anything that deviates from the usual "Man saves world, man get's sweet yet slightly badass girl" gets automatically shut down. Look at Isabella, she's sexually free and yet can hold her own, she's not this girl that needs to be saved and tbh isn't a nice girl at all...now all of a sudden the "straight male" demographc says: "She's a s lut" or... "She's dirty."

Things like that are what make me believe that this demographic is quite immature, when it comes to alternative ways of playing and and alternative stories. Seriously, I've said before, the female gaming community seems to have alot more maturity (albeit small community) when it comes to such things.

And second of all, where is gay sex in DA2? Where??

Lastly, stop trying to hide behind a facade of being the "persecuted majority", you obviously are too close-minded to have same sex options in a video game. Just stop it and grow up.

(Note when I said OPTION, you don't have to persue it. Obviously, you arent comfortable with your sexuality if the option bothers you)

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

moilami wrote...
How much did they got paid?

Their entire education, everything they needed to live (food, clothing, a home etc....), important connections later on.

Edit: And were you there to see everything first hand - or from where you got the authority to act like you were?

No I wasn´t but I busied myself with Greece history a gereat deal.

So they got paid like slaves do.

And to get into to the position of power you had to be appealing butt sex provider for someone having status.

You have butt -> your butt is appealing -> you get to join to insiders.

Great system, not. And people saw through it and with the help of Plato destroyed it.

[Captain Jazz]

c3701 wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

True, I've read lots of books that didn't include homosexual romances, as well as lots that did. Neither is discrimination. But if the readers of books which did include homosexual romances demanded a version without it... well, that's starting to look 'phobic. The funny thing in this situation is that the option to play the story without a homosexual romance is already there, so demanding the omg no ghey option not only makes you sound like a ridiculous homophobe, it's also totally unnecessary.
It's like demanding an option to disable the sword and shield skills for your warrior because you want to use a greatsword - just don't put points into the weapon and shield skills and you don't have to deal with it.

If you really were forced into bed with Anders, then I could understand the argument, but you are not.

Anders: Just say no.

Demanding is a little harsh.  I would use "asking."  It's not like I or others are asking for something that would be difficult to implement.  It's not like it would change the game in any way for you.

It's. Still. Unneccessary.
Just. Say. No.

If it really matters that much to you, make a mod.

[Tirigon]

Mrwakka wrote...

Again, thats kind of a bigoted point of view on alistair. He acts in a way you deem gay, thus even though he isn't into it, he should be? Explain please exactly what in his personality defines him as gay, I am curious to hear that. Is a gay man who doesn't fit the worst stereotype told he can't be gay because he doesn't act like it? kinda messed up.

No it´s not. It´s just annoying that he isn´t bi. The "everyone is bi" approach was the ONE AND ONLY thing in the bunch of garbage that DA2 is which was an actual improvement over Origins.
But let´s just rest this case, since I don´t play male Wardens anyways, I care more on an hypothethical level, I wouldn´t note his gayness in my games anyways.

As to Morrigan, I seem to recall she mentions having been with men before in her explorations.

Well I don´t remember this. If you are right, I admit I have been wrong before.
Still, she could as well be bi:P  I don´t see any reason for her not to be, my Wardens are always nice to her:crying:

[bEVEsthda]

Just want to file my esteem and respect for D. Gaider here.
And support. For the record.
I can't see that the homophobes have a single argument of substance.

P.S. and a warning to EA who have such talent for PR-fumbles: If you think the mass of Bioware fans crowd, (or even gamers in general) is anything at all like the religious right, you're going to have another disaster blowing up straight in your face.

[Tirigon]

moilami wrote...

So they got paid like slaves do.

No, slaves get no education and too less to live.
Besides, you forgot that the young man had to enter into this kind of relationship voluntarily. Rape was a crime in Greece (although common, which it is, of course, still, and in every culture).

And to get into to the position of power you had to be appealing butt sex provider for someone having status.

That is not the only way. Besides, it is not different from today. You can get pretty much anything by looking good and not having scruple to f*ck someone in power.

You have butt -> your butt is appealing -> you get to join to insiders.

Great system, not. And people saw through it and with the help of Plato destroyed it.

I never said it was great. I just refused your claim it was slavery, because it wasn´t.

Of course, slavery DID exist and who knows for what kind of perversions the occasional d!ckhead would abuse his slaves. But that is a different matter.

moilami wrote...
Anders should take a leave by himself because being
turned down and not act as an obedient puppet for the PC.

Which would annoy everyone who wants to have Anders as a friend.
By making him leave if you refuse his advances, you would actually harm your cause, as it would force gay romances on anyone who wants to have a healer and isn´t lucky enough to either play a healer mage or a female Hawke.

Modifié par Tirigon, 26 mars 2011 - 04:27 .

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

Mrwakka wrote...

So because Alistair didn't fit your stereotype for a straight man, he must be gay.

No, because he pretty much fits the stereotype of a gay man. People were complaining about Zevran being too stereotypical. I found that retarded, Alistair acts far more in accordance with gay clichés. Except for not being gay without mods, that is.

Eudaemonium wrote...

Also, since when did not being in a relationship before equate to not having a sexual preference? (re: Morrigan).

She never states she is straight, ad her history doesn´t show it, so for all i care she is not.
I would be fine with her being straight if you could flirt with her as woman and she´d tel you she´s not interested.

However, in the game she NEVER talks about being straight, instead your Warden does not have an option to express interest in her, if she´s female.
This is f*cked up design, and it´s quite ironic that the romance works even better for women than it does for men if you use the "Equal Love" mod.

"equal love mod?" Rofl how propagandist name. To change NPCs identity dramatically is called "equal love mod". Lol, just lol.

Leliana would had said "give us some respect".

However not saying you can't reshape NPCs in your game to be something completely different than they are. But if you would do it properly you would rename them too. I propose the default name to be Barbara.

And it is not bad design if you can't be sure of Morri's sexuality. Why would she tell you that?

[c3701]

Captain Jazz wrote...

c3701 wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

True, I've read lots of books that didn't include homosexual romances, as well as lots that did. Neither is discrimination. But if the readers of books which did include homosexual romances demanded a version without it... well, that's starting to look 'phobic. The funny thing in this situation is that the option to play the story without a homosexual romance is already there, so demanding the omg no ghey option not only makes you sound like a ridiculous homophobe, it's also totally unnecessary.
It's like demanding an option to disable the sword and shield skills for your warrior because you want to use a greatsword - just don't put points into the weapon and shield skills and you don't have to deal with it.

If you really were forced into bed with Anders, then I could understand the argument, but you are not.

Anders: Just say no.

Demanding is a little harsh.  I would use "asking."  It's not like I or others are asking for something that would be difficult to implement.  It's not like it would change the game in any way for you.

It's. Still. Unneccessary.
Just. Say. No.

If it really matters that much to you, make a mod.

That's actually an excellent idea.  Probably something that would be easily mod-able.  Now if I could only find some documentation...

Edit: nevermind.  search and ye shall find.  who knew

Modifié par c3701, 26 mars 2011 - 04:36 .

[Tirigon]

moilami wrote...

And it is not bad design if you can't be sure of Morri's sexuality. Why would she tell you that?

It´s bad design because my female Warden has no flirting dialogue options with her, in spite of Morrigan never telling you she is straight.

Instead, the game simply assumes that my Warden may be interested in Zevran, Alistair and Leliana (all of which I can flirt with, if I choose to), but NOT in Morrigan.

This choice should be left to the player, and if Morrigan is supposed to be straight you should still have flirt options.
She should then refuse your advances.


(by the way, you CAN for example flirt with Oghren, and then he dumps you. This is how it should be done. Not simply by not having this option.)

[Curlain]

Tirigon wrote...

As to Morrigan, I seem to recall she mentions having been with men before in her explorations.

Well I don´t remember this. If you are right, I admit I have been wrong before.
Still, she could as well be bi:P  I don´t see any reason for her not to be, my Wardens are always nice to her:crying:

Why should she be bi because your Wardens are nice to her?  I'm nice to most people, but I don't expect their sexuality to change because of that 

[Tirigon]

Curlain wrote...

Why should she be bi because your Wardens are nice to her?  I'm nice to most people, but I don't expect their sexuality to change because of that 

Yea but you are real and the Warden is in a game. I don´t want to have disappointments in a game, just as I don´t want to have a graphic simulation of having to use the toilet during my travels in DAO.

Both are very real things, and both have no place in a game.

I play an RPG to be awesome and to have everyone bow to my will. These sh!tty b!ches some call companions are not supposed to disagree with me.

[moilami]

Incantrix wrote...

moilami wrote...

Incantrix wrote...

My theory is that most of the "straight male" demographic is too immature for romances in general.

Seriously, those who don't want s/s romances are homophobic and you know what their bs reason will be? "immersiveness" if I had a nickel for everytime I heard that...

Oi, yet another saying that if you don't want to do gay sex in video games you are homophobic. I thought it would had been old card to use in bashing. But noooo. It just evolves. Now they say "if you don't want to do gay sex in video games you are immature too". 

Not sure if they are serious. But anything is possible.

God help us.

No.

I'm saying that apparently, anything that deviates from the usual "Man saves world, man get's sweet yet slightly badass girl" gets automatically shut down. Look at Isabella, she's sexually free and yet can hold her own, she's not this girl that needs to be saved and tbh isn't a nice girl at all...now all of a sudden the "straight male" demographc says: "She's a s lut" or... "She's dirty."

Things like that are what make me believe that this demographic is quite immature, when it comes to alternative ways of playing and and alternative stories. Seriously, I've said before, the female gaming community seems to have alot more maturity (albeit small community) when it comes to such things.

And second of all, where is gay sex in DA2? Where??

Lastly, stop trying to hide behind a facade of being the "persecuted majority", you obviously are too close-minded to have same sex options in a video game. Just stop it and grow up.

(Note when I said OPTION, you don't have to persue it. Obviously, you arent comfortable with your sexuality if the option bothers you)

Why so emo after I pointed out how delusional and sick your claims are that those who don't want to do gay sex in real life or in games are homophobic and sick?

I could begin to do ad hominem arguments about you but that is below me.

Just keep yelling "ur homophobic if ur not want gay sex". Morons will hear you.

[sleepyowlet]

moilami wrote...



So they got paid like slaves do.

And to get into to the position of power you had to be appealing butt sex provider for someone having status.

You have butt -> your butt is appealing -> you get to join to insiders.

Great system, not. And people saw through it and with the help of Plato destroyed it.

Ahem, excuse me....

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Plato? You actually get Plato into this? A Greek Philosopher who had the opinion that true love can only happen between men? That women were just good for bearing children, and are incapable of true thought and emotions? (just read his work about the ideal state, it's all in there...)

You just shot yourself in the foot big time, dude.

As for Tigrion, he's absolutely right. I used to study Ancient History at university, you know. Erotic stuff between an Eromenos (that's the young guy) and his  Erastes (that's the influential older guy) only happened if the eromenos consented. If the Erastes took advantage of the Eromenos, he had to bear the brunt of the boy's father. There were even slaves (paedagoges) whos job it was to watch over the Eromenos so this wouldn't happen.

With all due respect, you're talking nonsense.

[billy the squid]

The way I look at it the sexuality has more to do with the style of the character and the associated background rather than pandering to any particular sexual prefrence. The issue that I have is that making all characters romancable to either sex feels like a bit of a cop out allowing all NPCs to be all things to all players, so to speak, rather than defining part of their personality of the character through their reactions to an amorous act on the behalf of the player. It just makes them feel a little more shallow.

Eg: Alistair was straight which I felt seemed to fit in more with his life resticted in the chantry, his nevousness around women etc.. although his comments about licking lamposts in winter, if their had been some man on man love with him, would have made for a great euphamism.

Again I think its a difficult choice for a writer to make and considering Gaider's sucess in creating some very memorable characters in DA O which had some restrictions toward sexual prefrence, I prefered his previous approach in comparison to the latest attempt, which I don't think has been as sucessful

[Tirigon]

moilami wrote...

Just keep yelling "ur homophobic if ur not want gay sex". Morons will hear you.

Not wanting to do gay sex? Fine.

Forbidding others to do it? Quite retarded, as it is not your business what they do.

[Curlain]

Tirigon wrote...

Curlain wrote...

Why should she be bi because your Wardens are nice to her?  I'm nice to most people, but I don't expect their sexuality to change because of that 

Yea but you are real and the Warden is in a game. I don´t want to have disappointments in a game, just as I don´t want to have a graphic simulation of having to use the toilet during my travels in DAO.

Both are very real things, and both have no place in a game.

I play an RPG to be awesome and to have everyone bow to my will. These sh!tty b!ches some call companions are not supposed to disagree with me.

lol fair enough 

[Tirigon]

sleepyowlet wrote...


Plato? You actually get Plato into this? A Greek Philosopher who had the opinion that true love can only happen between men? That women were just good for bearing children, and are incapable of true thought and emotions? (just read his work about the ideal state, it's all in there...)

You just shot yourself in the foot big time, dude.

As for Tigrion, he's absolutely right. I used to study Ancient History at university, you know. Erotic stuff between an Eromenos (that's the young guy) and his  Erastes (that's the influential older guy) only happened if the eromenos consented. If the Erastes took advantage of the Eromenos, he had to bear the brunt of the boy's father. There were even slaves (paedagoges) whos job it was to watch over the Eromenos so this wouldn't happen.

With all due respect, you're talking nonsense.

thank you.

And LOLZ at the Plato philosophy:D

I actually knew this once, just forgot it until you brought it up here. Epic. Epic.


Ah, life writes the best jokes after all:devil:

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

moilami wrote...

So they got paid like slaves do.

No, slaves get no education and too less to live.
Besides, you forgot that the young man had to enter into this kind of relationship voluntarily. Rape was a crime in Greece (although common, which it is, of course, still, and in every culture).

And to get into to the position of power you had to be appealing butt sex provider for someone having status.

That is not the only way. Besides, it is not different from today. You can get pretty much anything by looking good and not having scruple to f*ck someone in power.

You have butt -> your butt is appealing -> you get to join to insiders.

Great system, not. And people saw through it and with the help of Plato destroyed it.

I never said it was great. I just refused your claim it was slavery, because it wasn´t.

Of course, slavery DID exist and who knows for what kind of perversions the occasional d!ckhead would abuse his slaves. But that is a different matter.

moilami wrote...
Anders should take a leave by himself because being
turned down and not act as an obedient puppet for the PC.

Which would annoy everyone who wants to have Anders as a friend.
By making him leave if you refuse his advances, you would actually harm your cause, as it would force gay romances on anyone who wants to have a healer and isn´t lucky enough to either play a healer mage or a female Hawke.

That's why I said "I would appreciate". I did not bother to write how I know how people would yell if some NPC actually shows some indepence and does not take you as god given and be your puppet.


Edit: Not interested to discuss with you about Ancient Greece.

Modifié par moilami, 26 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[MaximusPhoenix]

I can't believe a select few people are still demanding/requesting/suggesting that the option not be there, even after reading David's huge response. Mind boggling.

[Tirigon]

Curlain wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

I play an RPG to be awesome and to have everyone bow to my will. These sh!tty b!ches some call companions are not supposed to disagree with me.

lol fair enough 

By the way, is it not quite ironic that I can´t flirt with Morrigan, but I can sell her robe and make her go into battle nekkid?:devil:

[Curlain]

Tirigon wrote...

Curlain wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

I play an RPG to be awesome and to have everyone bow to my will. These sh!tty b!ches some call companions are not supposed to disagree with me.

lol fair enough 

By the way, is it not quite ironic that I can´t flirt with Morrigan, but I can sell her robe and make her go into battle nekkid?:devil:

They do say revenge is a dish best served cold, which Morrigan would be :lol:

[Tirigon]

moilami wrote...

That's why I said "I would appreciate". I did not bother to write how I know how people would yell if some NPC actually shows some indepence and does not take you as god given and be your puppet.

Yet you DO want this when you demand an option to make Anders not flirt with your ManHawke.

Edit: Not interested to discuss with you about Ancient Greece.

Ah too bad.  I was having great fun. but I can see how you wouldn´t have, being utterly proven wrong as you are.....

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

Curlain wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

I play an RPG to be awesome and to have everyone bow to my will. These sh!tty b!ches some call companions are not supposed to disagree with me.

lol fair enough 

By the way, is it not quite ironic that I can´t flirt with Morrigan, but I can sell her robe and make her go into battle nekkid?:devil:

/edu mod

In a good RPG you can for example make a team of Nudists. You are not limited to play the game like it would be an adventure game.

/edu mod

[moilami]

Tirigon wrote...

moilami wrote...

That's why I said "I would appreciate". I did not bother to write how I know how people would yell if some NPC actually shows some indepence and does not take you as god given and be your puppet.

Yet you DO want this when you demand an option to make Anders not flirt with your ManHawke.

Edit: Not interested to discuss with you about Ancient Greece.

Ah too bad.  I was having great fun. but I can see how you wouldn´t have, being utterly proven wrong as you are.....

I am very sorry but I did not read what you wrote about Ancient Greece because I am not interested to discuss it with you. At least not in BW forum. In some other place I could do it, maybe. Or I could do it in BW forums if I would want to. However I am not interested of real world discussions.

[MrWakka]

Tirigon wrote...

moilami wrote...

Just keep yelling "ur homophobic if ur not want gay sex". Morons will hear you.

Not wanting to do gay sex? Fine.

Forbidding others to do it? Quite retarded, as it is not your business what they do.

The core problem here is that I expect a certain amount of consistency in characters. Having a character be bi, gay or straight is fine. But I think that a character shouldn't change who they are based on the protagonist. If I wanted a army of sycophants who mindlessly do everything I want them to do, I may as well just be playing with a party of clones. Or just make it like Icewind Dale and you just create the whole party yourself.

It also goes towards realism and immersion. You might see a guy/ girl on the street you find attractive, they don't change their preference on the spot to suit you. When you make parts of a characters personality variable, you lose part of the realism, immersion and sense of character.

Imagine a Baldur's Gate where if you played a wizard with a high inhtelligence, Minsc suddenly had a high intelligence too. Sure, Minsc can now have in depth conversations with you about string theory, but he has lost part of his original charm. A better route is to simply introduce a new character that has a high intelligence to start, and leave the original Minsc personality intact. You can't be everything to everyone, why should characters?

I think of course this can be answered by your own comments that you want everyone to bow down and agree to you. I however, find the mixture of traits add depth and intrigue. By altering personalities to be what I want, they lose a portion of their uniqueness.