2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Acephalorrchac]

I think the whole controversy here doesn't stem from Biowareas much as just David Gaider as a person being seriously pissed off at homophobic reactions to what he wrote.

[NotFrom4chan]

centauri2002 wrote...

Cpt.Thomas wrote...

Thats actually funny....(for a gay)
But seriously, Am I the only one having a problem with this?

I'm sorry i just really don't like the idea of gaying up cool games....

I know, the fact that I'm a lesbian seriously limits my humour. I do what I can though. 

But, no, you are not alone. Many people who are accustomed to seeing only the heteronormative are shocked by being exposed to 'the gay'. This I can understand, I can even sympathise with it to a degree. It's not your fault that society has evolved the way it has, after all. But perpetuating intolerance is another matter. 

Let me put it this way, I'm exposed to straight imagery and media every single day. I'm, perhaps, a little fed up with being left on the outside and made to feel abnormal. I would like to find entertainment that caters to my needs. That said, I can still find enjoyment in a game that only depicts heterosexual romance or none at all. If the story's good, it doesn't bother me too much. It doesn't mean I shouldn't be excluded though.

There's still a huge plethora of games out there that aren't 'gayed up' so I think you're safe for now. 

To be fair, a large part of that would be that homosexuals simply make up a much smaller proportion of the population than straights, so targeting them directly is less profitable.

[valle1]

centauri2002 wrote...

valle1 wrote...

I didnt research properly before i started playing and i acidently pressed a heart while talking to Anders thinking it would give me friendship, but when i saw the flirting i had a laugh... I had to reload though since i wouldnt have any gay action, so that might make me a bit homophobic lol.

Still take it as fun and cencentrate on Isabela because she is pretty hot for a fictional woman and sure got my heart rate a bit up in the "love making" scene ;o).

My only addition to this whole debate is that a game like this shouldnt get political with every minority group covered, just keep it simple and focus on the plots... After all, isnt the D&D gaming sessions with the pals what we fondly remember when we play games like this?

Absolutely. At least then we could play characters the way we wished without it being a political statement. >.>

Well it IS political in the sense that they have to freakin think about making everyone happy and yet they AINT. We are missing the coloured companions and there have to be some for both homosexuals and straight people since bi dont do it for both... And what ever happened to single mothers fighting to support their children? Aveline makes it for a female tank because that the strong women satisfied right there but we need to expand dont we? and what about those with overweight? We have women as the best damage takers in the game, so an obese rogue is just as realistic?

Whether you like it or not, its not about your need or anyone else's its about politics and even tho i can play the game no problem and even love it, it is worrying that a mainstream product have so attend to every little minority these days instead of just getting Hawke's mom back safe... Perhaps she wouldnt be dead if i didnt spend to much time worrying about whether anders i eyeing me and just waiting for the perfect time to cast that sleep spell?

[Cpt.Thomas]

I must admit i've seen an increase in these kind of events everywhere...
5 years ago i hardly knew they existed...(in a manner of speaking)
It seems some men are born to love men and everybody needs to tollerate this somehow...
But does society accept the reverse? what if i am born to dislike other men?
Or to dislike men who like other men? Who will stand for my minority?

[Serpentine 78]

 The only thing that annoyed me a little was when my male companions hit on me right off the bat (I'm playing as a male Hawke), usually after I helped them in some dire situation, and then they gave me attitude for not reciprocating their feelings. Didn't I just put my life on the line for them?   It seemed contrived and a bit low brow.  I got over it though and it has not decreased the fun factor of the game for me.

[Centauri2002]

NotFrom4chan wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Cpt.Thomas wrote...

Thats actually funny....(for a gay)
But seriously, Am I the only one having a problem with this?

I'm sorry i just really don't like the idea of gaying up cool games....

I know, the fact that I'm a lesbian seriously limits my humour. I do what I can though. 

But, no, you are not alone. Many people who are accustomed to seeing only the heteronormative are shocked by being exposed to 'the gay'. This I can understand, I can even sympathise with it to a degree. It's not your fault that society has evolved the way it has, after all. But perpetuating intolerance is another matter. 

Let me put it this way, I'm exposed to straight imagery and media every single day. I'm, perhaps, a little fed up with being left on the outside and made to feel abnormal. I would like to find entertainment that caters to my needs. That said, I can still find enjoyment in a game that only depicts heterosexual romance or none at all. If the story's good, it doesn't bother me too much. It doesn't mean I shouldn't be excluded though.

There's still a huge plethora of games out there that aren't 'gayed up' so I think you're safe for now. 

To be fair, a large part of that would be that homosexuals simply make up a much smaller proportion of the population than straights, so targeting them directly is less profitable.

Ah but I'm not talking about being catered to exclusively, I'm talking about my preferences being incorporated into a much larger whole. That's fair, surely?

[Acephalorrchac]

valle1 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

valle1 wrote...

I didnt research properly before i started playing and i acidently pressed a heart while talking to Anders thinking it would give me friendship, but when i saw the flirting i had a laugh... I had to reload though since i wouldnt have any gay action, so that might make me a bit homophobic lol.

Still take it as fun and cencentrate on Isabela because she is pretty hot for a fictional woman and sure got my heart rate a bit up in the "love making" scene ;o).

My only addition to this whole debate is that a game like this shouldnt get political with every minority group covered, just keep it simple and focus on the plots... After all, isnt the D&D gaming sessions with the pals what we fondly remember when we play games like this?

Absolutely. At least then we could play characters the way we wished without it being a political statement. >.>

Whether you like it or not, its not about your need or anyone else's its about politics and even tho i can play the game no problem and even love it, it is worrying that a mainstream product have so attend to every little minority these days instead of just getting Hawke's mom back safe... Perhaps she wouldnt be dead if i didnt spend to much time worrying about whether anders i eyeing me and just waiting for the perfect time to cast that sleep spell?

Yup, homosexuals killed your mum. Seriously, what were they thinking?

[NotFrom4chan]

Cpt.Thomas wrote...

I must admit i've seen an increase in these kind of events everywhere...
5 years ago i hardly knew they existed...(in a manner of speaking)
It seems some men are born to love men and everybody needs to tollerate this somehow...
But does society accept the reverse? what if i am born to dislike other men?
Or to dislike men who like other men? Who will stand for my minority?

No one. The main tenet of Political Correctness is that you're not allowed to dislike anyone. Except for pedophiles, I think we're still allowed to dislike them. Oh and you're allowed to dislike straight white males as much as you want too because they implicitly block other people from achieving their goals, somehow.

[NotFrom4chan]

centauri2002 wrote...

NotFrom4chan wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Cpt.Thomas wrote...

Thats actually funny....(for a gay)
But seriously, Am I the only one having a problem with this?

I'm sorry i just really don't like the idea of gaying up cool games....

I know, the fact that I'm a lesbian seriously limits my humour. I do what I can though. 

But, no, you are not alone. Many people who are accustomed to seeing only the heteronormative are shocked by being exposed to 'the gay'. This I can understand, I can even sympathise with it to a degree. It's not your fault that society has evolved the way it has, after all. But perpetuating intolerance is another matter. 

Let me put it this way, I'm exposed to straight imagery and media every single day. I'm, perhaps, a little fed up with being left on the outside and made to feel abnormal. I would like to find entertainment that caters to my needs. That said, I can still find enjoyment in a game that only depicts heterosexual romance or none at all. If the story's good, it doesn't bother me too much. It doesn't mean I shouldn't be excluded though.

There's still a huge plethora of games out there that aren't 'gayed up' so I think you're safe for now. 

To be fair, a large part of that would be that homosexuals simply make up a much smaller proportion of the population than straights, so targeting them directly is less profitable.

Ah but I'm not talking about being catered to exclusively, I'm talking about my preferences being incorporated into a much larger whole. That's fair, surely?

Do you mean tokenism?

[Rykoth]

There's a big difference between "Single Moms" and Homosexual Romances.

Here's a fact. MOST fantasy stories have some sort of romance in them. It's a token part of most fantasy whether its dark, high, or low. Hell, even Conan the Cimmerian had romance in it, granted it was mostly Conan and the token buxom beauty of the week.

Why are people getting their panties in such a bunch, that Bioware, KNOWN for their romances in their games, are letting all orientations get something out of it? The part of the romances, from my perspective, isn't to get to any steamy bits, but because it focuses on a key relationship between the main character (the player) and another character (the LI.)

Now, IMO, that means, that me, as a straight male gamer, have no interest in Anders or Fenris. I like Isabela the most, I also love Merrill. BUT, what about those who aren't straight? Those of the lesbian orientation can romance Isabela and Merrill as a woman Hawke, and those of the Gay-Male orientation can romance Anders or Fenris. NOBODY IS MAKING YOU DO IT. So don't romance them if you don't don't want to.

You don't have any sort of moral high ground, so get off your high horse. Troll.

[Centauri2002]

valle1 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

valle1 wrote...

I didnt research properly before i started playing and i acidently pressed a heart while talking to Anders thinking it would give me friendship, but when i saw the flirting i had a laugh... I had to reload though since i wouldnt have any gay action, so that might make me a bit homophobic lol.

Still take it as fun and cencentrate on Isabela because she is pretty hot for a fictional woman and sure got my heart rate a bit up in the "love making" scene ;o).

My only addition to this whole debate is that a game like this shouldnt get political with every minority group covered, just keep it simple and focus on the plots... After all, isnt the D&D gaming sessions with the pals what we fondly remember when we play games like this?

Absolutely. At least then we could play characters the way we wished without it being a political statement. >.>

Well it IS political in the sense that they have to freakin think about making everyone happy and yet they AINT. We are missing the coloured companions and there have to be some for both homosexuals and straight people since bi dont do it for both... And what ever happened to single mothers fighting to support their children? Aveline makes it for a female tank because that the strong women satisfied right there but we need to expand dont we? and what about those with overweight? We have women as the best damage takers in the game, so an obese rogue is just as realistic?

Whether you like it or not, its not about your need or anyone else's its about politics and even tho i can play the game no problem and even love it, it is worrying that a mainstream product have so attend to every little minority these days instead of just getting Hawke's mom back safe... Perhaps she wouldnt be dead if i didnt spend to much time worrying about whether anders i eyeing me and just waiting for the perfect time to cast that sleep spell?

It's only political if your motivation is to make a statement. If you're merely trying to make your customers happy, that's something else. Yes, it's never going to be possible to make everyone happy but that's no reason not to, at least, try to cater for those who are usually overlooked.  

Besides, it adds variety. I don't know about you, but I get fed up playing the same scenario over and over again.

[Centauri2002]

NotFrom4chan wrote...


Do you mean tokenism?

No. Tokenism is putting something in for the sake of it, in order to appear tolerant, not for the enjoyment of the players. 

[keos82]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...
When it comes down to it......anyone who wants a "No homosexual" option is straight up homophobic. End of question.

So, the answer to this is to make games where everyone shags everyone, that's absolutly ok...

No matter what they will use to defend their "creation", the romancing part was just plain dumb and kinda offending.
Maybe next time they will just skip it (I doubt that as it seems to get bigger and bigger with every game) and concentrate on the actual game, huh, what do you say Bioware ?

[Rykoth]

If you want tokenism, watch True Blood, and how the creator of the show tries to put straight characters into homoerotic situations all the time (just because he himself is gay, THAT is something I have a problem with.) THAT is tokenism.

THIS, in DA2, is inclusion.

[Cpt.Thomas]

Maybe in dragon age 3 we will be able to start a romances with our war hounds!

[Centauri2002]

Cpt.Thomas wrote...

Maybe in dragon age 3 we will be able to start a romances with our war hounds!

Now you're just being ridiculous. <_<

[Cpt.Thomas]

Yes.....As is this game,....iam going back to baldur's gate....1!

[dobrikruh]

bioware should probably focus more on making good and beleivable story and characters and stop doing any romances

i find romances in all their games pretty bad and shallow

it owuld be good if hawke could have an arranged marriage maybe(be it for money, power or something similar), that would be more in tune with medieval setting and not some american 16 year old high school teenagers romances

[Rykoth]

If Bioware stopped doing romances, I'm pretty sure they'd lose alot of fans. One of their token things is the fact that the player can connect with a character in such a way.

[Centauri2002]

dobrikruh wrote...

bioware should probably focus more on making good and beleivable story and characters and stop doing any romances

i find romances in all their games pretty bad and shallow

it owuld be good if hawke could have an arranged marriage maybe(be it for money, power or something similar), that would be more in tune with medieval setting and not some american 16 year old high school teenagers romances

I'm all for something more deep and meaningful. Or something more intricately linked with the main story arc, rather than seeming like a forgetable addition. There are some BioWare romances that seemed deeper than others to me, so I can admit to enjoying a few. Others are not as memorable. I'm of the opinion that if it's done as mere titilation and doesn't add extra layers and depth to the story, then it might as well not be there. 

[dobrikruh]

Rykoth wrote...

If Bioware stopped doing romances, I'm pretty sure they'd lose alot of fans. One of their token things is the fact that the player can connect with a character in such a way.

sims medieval is out, maybe they should play that

i wouldnt mind romances if they were actually good and have impact on the story, but they are not(they mostly consist of 4-5 converstions, kiss scene and sex scene, have no relevance to the other parts of the game and they are also badly written)

[valle1]

Rykoth wrote...

There's a big difference between "Single Moms" and Homosexual Romances.

Here's a fact. MOST fantasy stories have some sort of romance in them. It's a token part of most fantasy whether its dark, high, or low. Hell, even Conan the Cimmerian had romance in it, granted it was mostly Conan and the token buxom beauty of the week.

Why are people getting their panties in such a bunch, that Bioware, KNOWN for their romances in their games, are letting all orientations get something out of it? The part of the romances, from my perspective, isn't to get to any steamy bits, but because it focuses on a key relationship between the main character (the player) and another character (the LI.)

Now, IMO, that means, that me, as a straight male gamer, have no interest in Anders or Fenris. I like Isabela the most, I also love Merrill. BUT, what about those who aren't straight? Those of the lesbian orientation can romance Isabela and Merrill as a woman Hawke, and those of the Gay-Male orientation can romance Anders or Fenris. NOBODY IS MAKING YOU DO IT. So don't romance them if you don't don't want to.

You don't have any sort of moral high ground, so get off your high horse. Troll.

Im a troll because im not of the same opinion as you? That seems a bit judgemental i think and surely a bit misplaced in a discussion where you are trying to prove a point regarding open minds towards a minority.

[Rykoth]

My troll comment was aimed at the "notfrom4chan" idiot who thinks lesbians aren't homosexuals.

My point is... you have the right to not like being hit on, but getting angry at the game company for including it instead of angry at the character and getting into the moment via storytelling... well that's where it looks stupid and immature.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Rykoth wrote...

Hell, even Conan the Cimmerian had romance in it, granted it was mostly Conan and the token buxom beauty of the week.

Hmm.  I guess if adolescent sex fantasy like this is romance, it might explain my general dissatisfaction with Bioware's "romances".

[Rykoth]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

Hell, even Conan the Cimmerian had romance in it, granted it was mostly Conan and the token buxom beauty of the week.

Hmm.  I guess if adolescent sex fantasy like this is romance, it might explain my general dissatisfaction with Bioware's "romances".

Actually, it was written at a time when such things were scandelous aka the 1930s