2875 réponses à ce sujet

[valle1]

centauri2002 wrote...

valle1 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

valle1 wrote...

I didnt research properly before i started playing and i acidently pressed a heart while talking to Anders thinking it would give me friendship, but when i saw the flirting i had a laugh... I had to reload though since i wouldnt have any gay action, so that might make me a bit homophobic lol.

Still take it as fun and cencentrate on Isabela because she is pretty hot for a fictional woman and sure got my heart rate a bit up in the "love making" scene ;o).

My only addition to this whole debate is that a game like this shouldnt get political with every minority group covered, just keep it simple and focus on the plots... After all, isnt the D&D gaming sessions with the pals what we fondly remember when we play games like this?

Absolutely. At least then we could play characters the way we wished without it being a political statement. >.>

Well it IS political in the sense that they have to freakin think about making everyone happy and yet they AINT. We are missing the coloured companions and there have to be some for both homosexuals and straight people since bi dont do it for both... And what ever happened to single mothers fighting to support their children? Aveline makes it for a female tank because that the strong women satisfied right there but we need to expand dont we? and what about those with overweight? We have women as the best damage takers in the game, so an obese rogue is just as realistic?

Whether you like it or not, its not about your need or anyone else's its about politics and even tho i can play the game no problem and even love it, it is worrying that a mainstream product have so attend to every little minority these days instead of just getting Hawke's mom back safe... Perhaps she wouldnt be dead if i didnt spend to much time worrying about whether anders i eyeing me and just waiting for the perfect time to cast that sleep spell?

It's only political if your motivation is to make a statement. If you're merely trying to make your customers happy, that's something else. Yes, it's never going to be possible to make everyone happy but that's no reason not to, at least, try to cater for those who are usually overlooked.  

Besides, it adds variety. I don't know about you, but I get fed up playing the same scenario over and over again.

Good answer, and as i said i really dont mind it being in the game. What i do mind is a world where "polical correct" seems to be a raised fist making people worry about their every word in order to not being branded racist, homophobic... whatever. I dunno if Bioware had this in mind when they created romances, to make sure they didnt offend gay people out there, but my point is that it shouldnt be a worry for the creators in any case. Its hard to say, maybe its just to a case of making everyone happy as you say... As least i hope that is the case.

[JediMB]

Cpt.Thomas wrote...

I must admit i've seen an increase in these kind of events everywhere...
5 years ago i hardly knew they existed...(in a manner of speaking)
It seems some men are born to love men and everybody needs to tollerate this somehow...
But does society accept the reverse? what if i am born to dislike other men?
Or to dislike men who like other men? Who will stand for my minority?

Are you asking for people to tolerate intolerance? 

[sleepyowlet]

Rykoth wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

Hell, even Conan the Cimmerian had romance in it, granted it was mostly Conan and the token buxom beauty of the week.

Hmm.  I guess if adolescent sex fantasy like this is romance, it might explain my general dissatisfaction with Bioware's "romances".

Actually, it was written at a time when such things were scandelous aka the 1930s

And I hear that James Bond is still quite popular
Is this series really less shallow when it comes to relationships?

I agree, I would like better written romances. Valen Shadowbreath comes to mind as a positive example. This romance actually had substance, and you had to tread very carefully, because you had to win him over. You actually lost his regard when you started flirting too soon, and you could ask him all kinds of stuff about his past - whenever and wherever you wanted. You really could get to know him.
Thing is, even though he was an exclusively straight romance option, the whole thing would have worked just as well with a male PC. Because the character of Valen was just so well written, that things like gender don't matter.

Why, BioWare, why? You did something very right there. Why can't you do that again???

[Centauri2002]

valle1 wrote...

Good answer, and as i said i really dont mind it being in the game. What i do mind is a world where "polical correct" seems to be a raised fist making people worry about their every word in order to not being branded racist, homophobic... whatever. I dunno if Bioware had this in mind when they created romances, to make sure they didnt offend gay people out there, but my point is that it shouldnt be a worry for the creators in any case. Its hard to say, maybe its just to a case of making everyone happy as you say... As least i hope that is the case.

Why, thank you. :3

You are correct, that reasoning just cheapens the romances. Personally, I'd find it more perturbing that gay romance was tacked onto a game for the sake of avoiding offending me, than to omit it altogether and focus on a fewer number of romance options with some actual depth. Of course, I'd very much like it if there was one of those well-written, deep and meaningful romances there for me too. >.>

Personally, I don't think BioWare are trying to make a statement but are just trying to take a tentative step in the right direction. 

[Laraine]

Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual... whatever! I don't think the inclusion of homosexual romance options needs to be treated as Bioware making a political statement; instead it could be considered indicative of an attitude of wider acceptance. Toss in a straight romance option, toss in a gay romance option because either one is possible and because both are equal. I personally look forward to times when ideas/people/groups that have traditionally been excluded find themselves represented within mainstream fare, especially when that inclusion is just taken as a matter of course. So hey, relax. Don't worry about politics or statements, just play on! =)

[NeoGuardian86]

I know for sure this is gonna come off as anti-choice.  However hear me out if you will.

In my first playthrough - and i went into it blind no knowing about the LI's sexualities. but eventually in the game I playfully thought "what are the chances there all BI?" when the options or dialog did eventually come up.

and no i don't think making them all straight is the right approach either.
Just would of liked more definitive characters with deeper story lines when came to that aspect.

doing them all BI, while certainly commendable for what they were trying to achieve, just sort of came off to me as sort of fan-fiction pandering, or trying not to offend.

and yes i know it's a role playing game, and no i'm not saying they should get rid of all straight/LGBT options. I am for diversity. Would of been neat to see one of the few straight-up gay or lesbian only characters in gaming, rather then keeping the romance issue just sort of blob for the player to create. and i'm a straight male gamer.

Even when i found out Anders is gay - cause he comes out to me with his history, i didn't really have a problem with that. Merely the bit that irked me was when i finished the game then went to the internetz to read to what other people thought of the story in detail (now that there won't be any real big spoilers for me), the bit of turning them all BI just sort of got to me from a creative aspect.

Just sincerely, respectfully disagree with this approach when it came to the LI's.


I know regardless of whatever they do people will complain, but i felt i should add my two cents to the pile.

Modifié par NeoGuardian86, 27 mars 2011 - 02:48 .

[moilami]

NotFrom4chan wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

Lesbians are homosexuals.

Forgive me Bioware, for I have sinned.

You are an idiot, troll.

Right, I'll ask again then. Why should people react exactly the same way to female homosexuals as they do to male homosexuals?

This question does not exist actually because lesbians don't try to hit me and if they would try, which does not happen, I would have no problems with it since lesbian does have as good sweet spot and boobs as any woman.

Lesbians does have stuff I like. Male homosexuals does not have. Thus a big conflict of intererests happen.

However, I have thought I begin to experiment hitting lesbians. If they complain I yell them "HETEROPHOBIC GTFO".

[b00mQQ]

Actually, each companion has their own view on the romances. It's just like real life. Regardless of the opposite gender, you can flirt with them and try to get them to hook up with you, but it's their decision whether they want to accept it or blow it off. And you have to actively pursue those romances. It's not out out of the blue Anders jumps in bed with you if you are playing a male Hawke. You have to pursue him and actively let him know you are interested in him. Like BioWare has said, whether you pursue that romance is *your* decision.

[Centauri2002]

moilami wrote...

NotFrom4chan wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

Lesbians are homosexuals.

Forgive me Bioware, for I have sinned.

You are an idiot, troll.

Right, I'll ask again then. Why should people react exactly the same way to female homosexuals as they do to male homosexuals?

This question does not exist actually because lesbians don't try to hit me and if they would try, which does not happen, I would have no problems with it since lesbian does have as good sweet spot and boobs as any woman.

Lesbians does have stuff I like. Male homosexuals does not have. Thus a big conflict of intererests happen.

However, I have thought I begin to experiment hitting lesbians. If they complain I yell them "HETEROPHOBIC GTFO".

Hitting or hitting on? >.>

[Valmarn]

Laraine wrote...

Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual... whatever! I don't think the inclusion of homosexual romance options needs to be treated as Bioware making a political statement; instead it could be considered indicative of an attitude of wider acceptance. Toss in a straight romance option, toss in a gay romance option because either one is possible and because both are equal. I personally look forward to times when ideas/people/groups that have traditionally been excluded find themselves represented within mainstream fare, especially when that inclusion is just taken as a matter of course. So hey, relax. Don't worry about politics or statements, just play on! =)

Personally, I think making all of the romanceable characters "one size fits all" is more indicative of laziness.

Basically, acceptance at the cost of laziness, or at least the appearance of such.

[moilami]

centauri2002 wrote...

moilami wrote...

NotFrom4chan wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

Lesbians are homosexuals.

Forgive me Bioware, for I have sinned.

You are an idiot, troll.

Right, I'll ask again then. Why should people react exactly the same way to female homosexuals as they do to male homosexuals?

This question does not exist actually because lesbians don't try to hit me and if they would try, which does not happen, I would have no problems with it since lesbian does have as good sweet spot and boobs as any woman.

Lesbians does have stuff I like. Male homosexuals does not have. Thus a big conflict of intererests happen.

However, I have thought I begin to experiment hitting lesbians. If they complain I yell them "HETEROPHOBIC GTFO".

Hitting or hitting on? >.>

Seducing.

Anyone noticed how retarded I would be if I would act like I described?

[Centauri2002]

moilami wrote...

Seducing.

Anyone noticed how retarded I would be if I would act like I described?

I think it would be incredibly silly to try to seduce someone who would never be attracted to you in the first place. If you had prior knowledge of this, I mean. But, yes, yelling heterophobe because someone isn't interested is just as obsurd as the opposite. Although... not entirely inaccurate. Some straight men scare me. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 27 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[moilami]

centauri2002 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Seducing.

Anyone noticed how retarded I would be if I would act like I described?

I think it would be incredibly silly to try to seduce someone who would never be attracted to you in the first place. If you had prior knowledge of this, I mean. But, yes, yelling heterophobe because someone isn't interested is just as obsurd as the opposite. Although... not entirely inaccurate. Some straight men scare me. 

Yes. It would extremely stupid and best described as sexual harassment.

[Centauri2002]

moilami wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Seducing.

Anyone noticed how retarded I would be if I would act like I described?

I think it would be incredibly silly to try to seduce someone who would never be attracted to you in the first place. If you had prior knowledge of this, I mean. But, yes, yelling heterophobe because someone isn't interested is just as obsurd as the opposite. Although... not entirely inaccurate. Some straight men scare me. 

Yes. It would extremely stupid and best described as sexual harassment.

Agreed. However, in the context of the game, I don't think there's an opportunity to boldly announce Hawke's sexuality to the party members so you can't really blame them for at least trying once. >.>

[CaimDark]

I applaud Bioware for giving players the option of having same-sex romances, and honestly, many of the criticisms I've seen around here amount to little more than thinly veiled (and sometimes not veiled at all) homophobia. That being said, making pretty much every single romanceable NPC bisexual felt forced and did not help the immersion.

[Well]

CaimDark wrote...

I applaud Bioware for giving players the option of having same-sex romances, and honestly, many of the criticisms I've seen around here amount to little more than thinly veiled (and sometimes not veiled at all) homophobia. That being said, making pretty much every single romanceable NPC bisexual felt forced and did not help the immersion.

Apparently that is anyone that doesnt agree with you.Slap a label on them.I have seen that more times then I care to count.Bigotry is a equal opportunity employer.At least on this forum.The funny thing is LIs meaning nothing to me.I dont care if they are gay,straight,bi or whatever.I dont do LIs most times.People like them more power to them.What ticks me off because someone doesnt want to get hit on all of of a sudden she/he must be this that or the other thing.Pretty pathetic.

[moilami]

centauri2002 wrote...

moilami wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Seducing.

Anyone noticed how retarded I would be if I would act like I described?

I think it would be incredibly silly to try to seduce someone who would never be attracted to you in the first place. If you had prior knowledge of this, I mean. But, yes, yelling heterophobe because someone isn't interested is just as obsurd as the opposite. Although... not entirely inaccurate. Some straight men scare me. 

Yes. It would extremely stupid and best described as sexual harassment.

Agreed. However, in the context of the game, I don't think there's an opportunity to boldly announce Hawke's sexuality to the party members so you can't really blame them for at least trying once. >.>

It is all the same for me what they do. I am not asking for politically correct PEGI 13 educational games for me.That's why I don't care if computer controlled gay, hetero, or bi sexually harassess my char in the game.

[JediMB]

moilami wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Seducing.

Anyone noticed how retarded I would be if I would act like I described?

I think it would be incredibly silly to try to seduce someone who would never be attracted to you in the first place. If you had prior knowledge of this, I mean. But, yes, yelling heterophobe because someone isn't interested is just as obsurd as the opposite. Although... not entirely inaccurate. Some straight men scare me. 

Yes. It would extremely stupid and best described as sexual harassment.

It would only be sexual harassment if you continue despite being asked to stop, or if you get physical.

But I would say that it's retarded mostly because you already know that they're lesbians, whereas Anders had no way of knowing your character's orientation.

[moilami]

JediMB wrote...

moilami wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

moilami wrote...

Seducing.

Anyone noticed how retarded I would be if I would act like I described?

I think it would be incredibly silly to try to seduce someone who would never be attracted to you in the first place. If you had prior knowledge of this, I mean. But, yes, yelling heterophobe because someone isn't interested is just as obsurd as the opposite. Although... not entirely inaccurate. Some straight men scare me. 

Yes. It would extremely stupid and best described as sexual harassment.

It would only be sexual harassment if you continue despite being asked to stop, or if you get physical.

But I would say that it's retarded mostly because you already know that they're lesbians, whereas Anders had no way of knowing your character's orientation.

Did you read how she wrote "If you had prior knowledge of this, I mean".

So I recommend you read again what we were discussing and on what we agreed. Else you just make yourself look retarded since what you wrote rises questions can you understand English or are you so ADHD emo that you read only the first sentence of every paraghraph.

[Wincer]

As a member of the theatre community (which is populated by all sexualities) I am happy to see Bioware taking steps toward acceptance and tolerance.
And while I agree with some of the comments about how not everyone you run into in real life is bisexual, I have read complaints for DA:O where people weren't satisfied having Zevran has the only male-male romancable option, while straight males had more to pick from.
This is a sticky subject, but I think it is fair to all players if they are able to shape their characters world with the romance they desire.

[Seifz]

Well wrote...

CaimDark wrote...

I applaud Bioware for giving players the option of having same-sex romances, and honestly, many of the criticisms I've seen around here amount to little more than thinly veiled (and sometimes not veiled at all) homophobia. That being said, making pretty much every single romanceable NPC bisexual felt forced and did not help the immersion.

Apparently that is anyone that doesnt agree with you.Slap a label on them.I have seen that more times then I care to count.Bigotry is a equal opportunity employer.At least on this forum.The funny thing is LIs meaning nothing to me.I dont care if they are gay,straight,bi or whatever.I dont do LIs most times.People like them more power to them.What ticks me off because someone doesnt want to get hit on all of of a sudden she/he must be this that or the other thing.Pretty pathetic.

"Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and in some cases transgender and intersex people and behaviour. Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear."  (Yes, it's Wikipedia.  Don't hate.)

Now, how is a request to completely remove homosexuality from the game via a toggle not fitting of this label?  How are statements that homophobia is a sin, that it's unnatural, and that homosexuals shouldn't marry or be parents not deserving of this label?  How is the original poster, who insists that games should be tailored to "straight male gamers" like him to the exclusion of others not homophobic?

[moilami]

Wincer wrote...

As a member of the theatre community (which is populated by all sexualities) I am happy to see Bioware taking steps toward acceptance and tolerance.
And while I agree with some of the comments about how not everyone you run into in real life is bisexual, I have read complaints for DA:O where people weren't satisfied having Zevran has the only male-male romancable option, while straight males had more to pick from.
This is a sticky subject, but I think it is fair to all players if they are able to shape their characters world with the romance they desire.

Fairness really have nothing to do with it. Is LotR unfair book because there were no gays?

In an RPG there is a story. The story can be like "I killed stuff and became a champion without ever founding a gay lover." 

Please, try to be logical, especially if you are from creative arts. Oh lol, guess that is too much asked though.

[Wincer]

Seifz wrote...

Well wrote...

CaimDark wrote...

I applaud Bioware for giving players the option of having same-sex romances, and honestly, many of the criticisms I've seen around here amount to little more than thinly veiled (and sometimes not veiled at all) homophobia. That being said, making pretty much every single romanceable NPC bisexual felt forced and did not help the immersion.

Apparently that is anyone that doesnt agree with you.Slap a label on them.I have seen that more times then I care to count.Bigotry is a equal opportunity employer.At least on this forum.The funny thing is LIs meaning nothing to me.I dont care if they are gay,straight,bi or whatever.I dont do LIs most times.People like them more power to them.What ticks me off because someone doesnt want to get hit on all of of a sudden she/he must be this that or the other thing.Pretty pathetic.

"Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and in some cases transgender and intersex people and behaviour. Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear."  (Yes, it's Wikipedia.  Don't hate.)

Now, how is a request to completely remove homosexuality from the game via a toggle not fitting of this label?  How are statements that homophobia is a sin, that it's unnatural, and that homosexuals shouldn't marry or be parents not deserving of this label?  How is the original poster, who insists that games should be tailored to "straight male gamers" like him to the exclusion of others not homophobic?

I agree. I applaud Bioware for offering same-sex relationships in a community that generally tailors only to straight males.
Part of the reason that Bioware is so great is because they are innovative and wise enough to cater to all audiences without prejudice.

[Wincer]

moilami wrote...

Wincer wrote...

As a member of the theatre community (which is populated by all sexualities) I am happy to see Bioware taking steps toward acceptance and tolerance.
And while I agree with some of the comments about how not everyone you run into in real life is bisexual, I have read complaints for DA:O where people weren't satisfied having Zevran has the only male-male romancable option, while straight males had more to pick from.
This is a sticky subject, but I think it is fair to all players if they are able to shape their characters world with the romance they desire.

Fairness really have nothing to do with it. Is LotR unfair book because there were no gays?

In an RPG there is a story. The story can be like "I killed stuff and became a champion without ever founding a gay lover." 

Please, try to be logical, especially if you are from creative arts. Oh lol, guess that is too much asked though.

LOTR isn't unfair because there are no homosexual characters. I never suggested that.
I'm saying in an interactive game, where the players can shape their world and make their own decision, it is stupid to disregard the option of a same-sex relationship, because not everyone is attracted to the opposite-sex.

Tolkein never said Gandalf was homosexual, and I would stupid to throw up my arms and complain about that because that was the writer's choice. I have no problem with straight characters.

You don't have to attack my field of interest because you disagree with me. That is an attack on me and not my point of view.

Modifié par Wincer, 27 mars 2011 - 05:50 .

[sgriffin0810]

For what it's worth:

Despite my general disappointment with the game, I am 100% supportive David Gaider and Bioware on this issue. Good for you, guys. Thank you for doing the right thing.

Modifié par sgriffin0810, 27 mars 2011 - 05:52 .