2875 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Jazz]

moilami wrote...

I would appreciate if this game community here could do some short and clear non emo writing of what is the problem.

The problems that I can think of with asking for a "no gay" option are as follows:
1) It's redundant since the option is already there via the, "no thanks, Anders," option which came bundled in with the dialogue options at launch.
2) If you really want it so badly, why not make a mod for it yourselves rather than pestering the developers?

[-leadintea-]

Captain Jazz wrote...

moilami wrote...

I would appreciate if this game community here could do some short and clear non emo writing of what is the problem.

The problems that I can think of with asking for a "no gay" option are as follows:
1) It's redundant since the option is already there via the, "no thanks, Anders," option which came bundled in with the dialogue options at launch.
2) If you really want it so badly, why not make a mod for it yourselves rather than pestering the developers?

Then problem with your first option is that the player still gets hit on by Anders, so they still have to deal with that situation.

I think that people who want a "no gay" option should really be asking for a option when creating a character that allows you to choose to be straight, gay/lesbian, bi, or have no preferences. In this way, a straight character would get absolutely no scenes of a male hitting on them, and likewise, a gay characer wouldn't have a female hitting on them. Personally, I think this is a waste of developmental time, resources, and energy, but it can mitigate the backlash of things such as Anders hitting on a male character or whatever else might bother a player about their sexual orienation.

[Sharn01]

Thunderbringer wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

moilami wrote...

I would appreciate if this game community here could do some short and clear non emo writing of what is the problem.

The problems that I can think of with asking for a "no gay" option are as follows:
1) It's redundant since the option is already there via the, "no thanks, Anders," option which came bundled in with the dialogue options at launch.
2) If you really want it so badly, why not make a mod for it yourselves rather than pestering the developers?

Then problem with your first option is that the player still gets hit on by Anders, so they still have to deal with that situation.

I think that people who want a "no gay" option should really be asking for a option when creating a character that allows you to choose to be straight, gay/lesbian, bi, or have no preferences. In this way, a straight character would get absolutely no scenes of a male hitting on them, and likewise, a gay characer wouldn't have a female hitting on them. Personally, I think this is a waste of developmental time, resources, and energy, but it can mitigate the backlash of things such as Anders hitting on a male character or whatever else might bother a player about their sexual orienation.

Except that option already exsists at character creation so to speak.  People are not asking for a sexual orientation toggle for Hawke at character creation, they are asking for a sexual orientation toggle for the NPCs that are not our character.

If this did come to pass then I ask for a toggle to make all non party mages sane, the whole drooling moron who can contact a fade spirit and learn blood magic all in a window of 4 seconds while awake  really hurt my experience when playing the game.

[Captain Jazz]

Thunderbringer wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

moilami wrote...

I would appreciate if this game community here could do some short and clear non emo writing of what is the problem.

The problems that I can think of with asking for a "no gay" option are as follows:
1) It's redundant since the option is already there via the, "no thanks, Anders," option which came bundled in with the dialogue options at launch.
2) If you really want it so badly, why not make a mod for it yourselves rather than pestering the developers?

Then problem with your first option is that the player still gets hit on by Anders, so they still have to deal with that situation.

I think that people who want a "no gay" option should really be asking for a option when creating a character that allows you to choose to be straight, gay/lesbian, bi, or have no preferences. In this way, a straight character would get absolutely no scenes of a male hitting on them, and likewise, a gay characer wouldn't have a female hitting on them. Personally, I think this is a waste of developmental time, resources, and energy, but it can mitigate the backlash of things such as Anders hitting on a male character or whatever else might bother a player about their sexual orienation.

How much of the game is taken up by that proposition?
Fair enough though, why should they be forced to face such a horrific act? I myself find violence quite disturbing, perhaps I could get a no fighting toggle? I'm also quite uncomfortable around women, so how about a no women toggle?

Why are these outcries only ever about sex? Did anyone complain about genocides in Knights Of The Old Republic? You leave a teammate to die in a nuclear fire in Mass Effect, but the only complaints were about lesbian sex scenes. Ugh.
It's barely noticable in the game, it barely registered with me as I said, "no thanks, Anders," and moved on to play the actual game, meanwhile the reactions in these threads are beyond ridiculous. Talk of turning stomachs, not wanting to deal with gay characters, wishing he'd just "take a leave" from their group. It's 10 seconds of dialogue that doesn't have to register but people are obsessing over it when they can just say no. It's nonsense.

Besides, there's always option 2.

[Ghidorah14]

All characters able to go both ways = more possible romance options = a good thing.

So Anders might hit on you. Boo hoo. Zevran does that too, and he's much more persistent.

[Viper371]

I entirely agree with this.  That said, I think the BioWare approach to romance is pretty flawed anyway and I doubt that I'll ever be satisfied with any similar implementation.  I mean, they've literally gotten to the point where you pursue romances for achievements.  "Have sex with Companion X to unlock this achivement!"  It's terrible.

Until they figure out how to make romances actually matter to the story in a meaningful way, I don't really care how many of my companions are bisexual.  Might as well give everyone the option to pick their favorite sex toy.

Reflecting on that, I think the Mass Effect 1 approach was a good way to do this.
I had a love interest in one of the characters, and I had to choose if I was to sacrifice her or the other guy... that was meaningful to me.

Now, even if I romance Anders... there's no difference when it comes to killing him or not, or even in his actions (but I understand that, and I can accept it).

[Viper371]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Viper371 wrote...


On DAO, there were bi-sexual characters. Lelianna was more on the straight side of the fence, Zevran was totally bi

Maybe it was just because I was playing as a woman, but Leliana seemed lean more towards the company of women than men.  Zevran also preffered women over men, and says so directly...  he was still bi but he had a definite prefence. 

I can not remember that... I thought Lelianna was actually more interested in men than in women, but any way, it shows my point: there was a degree of complexitude totally absent from DA2.

As I said, I really don't care that it's there.  But it ain't well done, and damn, I'll be called an homophobe by the developpers if that's what they want to think instead of reflecting on their mistakes.

[AngelicMachinery]

Viper371 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Viper371 wrote...


On DAO, there were bi-sexual characters. Lelianna was more on the straight side of the fence, Zevran was totally bi

Maybe it was just because I was playing as a woman, but Leliana seemed lean more towards the company of women than men.  Zevran also preffered women over men, and says so directly...  he was still bi but he had a definite prefence. 

I can not remember that... I thought Lelianna was actually more interested in men than in women, but any way, it shows my point: there was a degree of complexitude totally absent from DA2.

As I said, I really don't care that it's there.  But it ain't well done, and damn, I'll be called an homophobe by the developpers if that's what they want to think instead of reflecting on their mistakes.

She talked about her mistress,  and also of the chaste priestesses forbidden fruit.  I don't remember he mentioning men, outside of a few banters about bard business.

Or I could have just blocked it out...  who knows.

[Ravenmyste]

lol not this again David kills a homophobic player at news 11

i glad David did this

[AlanC9]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

She talked about her mistress,  and also of the chaste priestesses forbidden fruit.  I don't remember he mentioning men, outside of a few banters about bard business.

Or I could have just blocked it out...  who knows.

Don't forget when Leliana makes Morrigan uncomfortable by staring at her.

[moilami]

AlanC9 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

She talked about her mistress,  and also of the chaste priestesses forbidden fruit.  I don't remember he mentioning men, outside of a few banters about bard business.

Or I could have just blocked it out...  who knows.

Don't forget when Leliana makes Morrigan uncomfortable by staring at her.

Lol.

Morrigan & Leliana <3

[moilami]

Thunderbringer wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

moilami wrote...

I would appreciate if this game community here could do some short and clear non emo writing of what is the problem.

The problems that I can think of with asking for a "no gay" option are as follows:
1) It's redundant since the option is already there via the, "no thanks, Anders," option which came bundled in with the dialogue options at launch.
2) If you really want it so badly, why not make a mod for it yourselves rather than pestering the developers?

Then problem with your first option is that the player still gets hit on by Anders, so they still have to deal with that situation.

I think that people who want a "no gay" option should really be asking for a option when creating a character that allows you to choose to be straight, gay/lesbian, bi, or have no preferences. In this way, a straight character would get absolutely no scenes of a male hitting on them, and likewise, a gay characer wouldn't have a female hitting on them. Personally, I think this is a waste of developmental time, resources, and energy, but it can mitigate the backlash of things such as Anders hitting on a male character or whatever else might bother a player about their sexual orienation.

Interesting solution and interesting feature to implement defined sexuality for PC. In RPGs it is all fine to make "chose your sexuality" button. It opens plenty of very different IC RP situations.

[moilami]

Captain Jazz wrote...

moilami wrote...

I would appreciate if this game community here could do some short and clear non emo writing of what is the problem.

The problems that I can think of with asking for a "no gay" option are as follows:
1) It's redundant since the option is already there via the, "no thanks, Anders," option which came bundled in with the dialogue options at launch.
2) If you really want it so badly, why not make a mod for it yourselves rather than pestering the developers?

Not a valid answer "do it urself". Devs make games and thus requests are by default send to them.

[Sabariel]

Thunderbringer wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

moilami wrote...

I would appreciate if this game community here could do some short and clear non emo writing of what is the problem.

The problems that I can think of with asking for a "no gay" option are as follows:
1) It's redundant since the option is already there via the, "no thanks, Anders," option which came bundled in with the dialogue options at launch.
2) If you really want it so badly, why not make a mod for it yourselves rather than pestering the developers?

Then problem with your first option is that the player still gets hit on by Anders, so they still have to deal with that situation.

I think that people who want a "no gay" option should really be asking for a option when creating a character that allows you to choose to be straight, gay/lesbian, bi, or have no preferences. In this way, a straight character would get absolutely no scenes of a male hitting on them, and likewise, a gay characer wouldn't have a female hitting on them. Personally, I think this is a waste of developmental time, resources, and energy, but it can mitigate the backlash of things such as Anders hitting on a male character or whatever else might bother a player about their sexual orienation.

Oh noes! They have to deal with a video game character hitting on them once! How ever will they go on?

...Seriously?

[moilami]

sereture wrote...

moilami wrote...

None told what is the problem.

So I tell it.

- People don't like gay advances in video games.
- People want gay romances in video games.
- Someone suggested a "no gay advances" button.
- Some people did not accept it.

There.

It is the whole idea that a gay man hitting on a male PC is so disturbing it requires an off option.
When you then put into it that no one is complaining about the female advances (hetero or ******), it just sounds very discriminating and hypocritical.

EDIT: Sorry, that was a mistake...

People can be very uncomfortable regarding sex in many ways. You can't blame them of that. Just because you can watch hetero or homosexual pr0n with your momma or daddy while you drink tea does not mean everyone should be able to do it. Sexuality is a personal thing and everyone has the rigths to draw themselves the line with it, and the rest can only accept those limit.

That said, no gays button is not very fair thing to do and can be kind of rascism. It is not because you think people think it is disturbing - people have the rights to define themselves what they find is disturbing regarding sex - but it is because gay people are people and just because they are gay they should not be removed from the games.

In other words if hetero NPCs can do advancements in games, then gay NPCs should be able to do advancements too. After that it is another personal matter what a player consideres to be sexual harassment, and NPCs can do sexual harassment in mature rated games whenever they want.

[philbo1965uk]

The only thing offensive about gay characters in DA2 is brought about be Bioware themselves.

Mike laidlaw lays into homophobic guy....how incompetent of the interviewer.

Anyone with an average IQ can see what the error is here and called laidlaw on it.

The fact is the sexuality has been handled quite badly...Bioware have actually misrepresented and insulted gay people in a very derogatory way.It's the old stereotypical representing of gays hitting on straight people...this isn't how gay people would like to be represented ingame.

Far from all insulting people speaking out against this.....you should be all spitting venom at Bioware...but then again average intelligence is a cliche as the majority are below it.

[Shawn Ogg]

philbo1965uk wrote...

The only thing offensive about gay characters in DA2 is brought about be Bioware themselves.

Mike laidlaw lays into homophobic guy....how incompetent of the interviewer.

Anyone with an average IQ can see what the error is here and called laidlaw on it.

The fact is the sexuality has been handled quite badly...Bioware have actually misrepresented and insulted gay people in a very derogatory way.It's the old stereotypical representing of gays hitting on straight people...this isn't how gay people would like to be represented ingame.

Far from all insulting people speaking out against this.....you should be all spitting venom at Bioware...but then again average intelligence is a cliche as the majority are below it.

I dont agree with that.

Its true that there is an "old stereotypical representing of gays hitting on straight people" , the idea that many people seems to have that gays wont care if you are gay or not and just try to rape you if they have a chance.  Just a ridiculous idea/stereotype.
But thats not tha case in DA2 at all. The moment Anders hits on you and you reject him all is done. He cant know if you are straigh or not without trying. Quoting myself:

-People dont have a sexual-orientation-radar. If a guy tries to flirt
with you is not different when you try to flirt with a girl. Just turn
him down. Everyone has the right to flirt, everyone can reject a
proposiont and everyone can stand being rejected. As well as you dont
know if you have any chance with that hot girl on the bar until you try a
guy doesnt know either if he has any chance with you. Does this mean he
cant try? That wouldnt be fair dont you think?

[Centauri2002]

Just for the sake of argument for those who are for this "gay toggle"...

Why now? I've played games where heterosexual characters have come onto my player character quite openly and there's never been a toggle for that. I'm not uncomfortable with that happening in a game but I'm sure there are people that don't want it there. "Oh, but you're in the minority," I hear you cry. Well, from what I've seen, so are the people who want a gay toggle. The majority just don't give two hoots about the issue.

Is it, then, fair to ask for one in the first place? When is tolerance going to become the preferred option? 

Modifié par centauri2002, 28 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[Mlaar]

Shawn Ogg wrote...
But thats not tha case in DA2 at all. The moment Anders hits on you and you reject him all is done. He cant know if you are straigh or not without trying. Quoting myself:

since it could be anytime within the first year that Anders tries flirting with you it could be months before he tries, if you have only been civil with him and flirty with the ladies then Im pretty certain he has a good idea you will not reciprocate his advance yet he still tries!! am I to assume hes naturally stupid should I stereotype all homosexuals as thus? of course not, I shouldnt have been put into the situation in the first place it dosnt need a toggle romance options, all it needed was the player making the initial advance then the Anders romance could have iniated in the next conversation.

[Mlaar]

I just want to add

Its sad that although I respect peoples desires to have a gay romance in game as an option, they do not show the same curtesy by respecting my desire not to be put in that situation.

Both ways are easily accommodated for but people seem to want one or the other!

[JediMB]

Mlaar wrote...

since it could be anytime within the first year that Anders tries flirting with you it could be months before he tries, if you have only been civil with him and flirty with the ladies then Im pretty certain he has a good idea you will not reciprocate his advance yet he still tries!!

Anders only flirts with you if you're being kind to him. If you fancy someone, it's very easy to mistake their kindness for an interest beyond friendship. This happens all the time in real life.

[Shawn Ogg]

Mlaar wrote...

Shawn Ogg wrote...
But thats not tha case in DA2 at all. The moment Anders hits on you and you reject him all is done. He cant know if you are straigh or not without trying. Quoting myself:

since it could be anytime within the first year that Anders tries flirting with you it could be months before he tries, if you have only been civil with him and flirty with the ladies then Im pretty certain he has a good idea you will not reciprocate his advance yet he still tries!! am I to assume hes naturally stupid should I stereotype all homosexuals as thus? of course not, I shouldnt have been put into the situation in the first place it dosnt need a toggle romance options, all it needed was the player making the initial advance then the Anders romance could have iniated in the next conversation.

First of all you are forgetting that you pc could actually be bisexual, so even if Hawke has only flit with women till then that doesnt mean that ha cant have a realtionship with Anders.

This aside, I agree that (and I recall stating it on my very first post here) if it was Hawke always the one initiating the romances (heterosexuals or not) it would have solved most of the problems many people seems to have with this issue.

Anyhow I still think that leting the NPC to be able to make the first move is a nice change and gives more diversity to the game. No one seems to complain about Isabella making the first move. I rly think it just sad the attitude many guys have "Yes, yes, everyone is equal and all that stuff,  do whatever you want.... just dont do it where I can see it". It seems gays have to be careful 24/7 with everything they do in case it could offense someone, but the thing is that most of these thing that are considered offenses are things that heresoxuals do on a normal basis and no one think of it as offensive. Its just sad.

[Steppenwolf]

My only issue with making every LI bi is that it doesn't fit for all of them. Anders was established as a skirt-chasing hetero in Awakening so making him almost instantly interested in male Hawke is really unfitting for the character. But then again, Anders in DA2 isn't really Anders at all since he's nothing like the Anders we knew and doesn't even have the same voice.

[Biefstukfriet]

aries1001 wrote...

The romances i DA2 are just that, romances. You'll need to actively pursue the romances in order to get to the -ahem- love scenes. (which, btw, consists of the two of you lying in bed. Then, the screen fades to black. And one you (as least from what I understand) have armour on while in bed...

If your main Hawke is a female, every one will want to romance her, if your main Hawke is male, everyone will want to romance him. The NPCs are Hawke-sexual (thanks to a bioware forumite for this definition), not bi, straight or gay.

This is not true. I've been forced into bed with Merril without ever having using the 'heart' dialogue options. She just barged into my mansion and I tried to talk her out of it. But I never take the 'A-hole' dialogue options, they just don't fit me. And guess what? Now she lives with me.

[KittyburgerMN]

philbo1965uk wrote...

The only thing offensive about gay characters in DA2 is brought about be Bioware themselves.

Mike laidlaw lays into homophobic guy....how incompetent of the interviewer.

Anyone with an average IQ can see what the error is here and called laidlaw on it.

The fact is the sexuality has been handled quite badly...Bioware have actually misrepresented and insulted gay people in a very derogatory way.It's the old stereotypical representing of gays hitting on straight people...this isn't how gay people would like to be represented ingame.

Far from all insulting people speaking out against this.....you should be all spitting venom at Bioware...but then again average intelligence is a cliche as the majority are below it.

Funny, *I'm* gay and I've got no problem with it.

I've been hit on by straight guys that I have NO interest in, many many times. Often in MUCH more aggressive terms than how Anders comes on to Hawke. People hit on people they see as attractive and likely to respond positively to the attention, and it's definitely possible to misinterpret what you're seeing, especially when you're lonely and interested in the contact.