266 réponses à ce sujet

[lx_theo]

ziloe wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Here are your two options.

one

You're either attacking a single person because such a small group on here says that its anything near a masterpiece that the comments would have to be attacking the individual or that small group.

Or two

Your attacking people who thought positively of the game. Which is a much, much larger group than the last one, an has to do with opinion, which is there's to make, not yours to tell them they are wrong for having.

Or three, I just don't want to see the same mistakes made in the third installment and all because people were perfectly satisfied with a lackluster design. It's hard enough finding games these days that are actually good. And finding RPGs that I actually want to play.

Western games are many of the time, too easy. And mostly because the developers don't think Americans are smart enough to handle anything more complicated than your typical God of War, hack and slash storyline.

That may be a motive, not a third option. You were still attacking people. The OP is a blatant attack, and its one of those two.

[ziloe]

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

You know what, just get back to me after you watch the interviews. That way we can at least see each other eye to eye and you can see where I'm coming from.

Believe me, it'd take years to bring us to an eye to eye level in an intellectual discussion.
That being said - did the quality of Dead Space 2 change because "your mom won't like it?". You can argue that the marketing, or even the interviews with the actual dev team were overblown, or outright lies. For all I know (and care) you might even be right. That. has. no. whatsoever. impact. on the games actual objective quality, as in the quality of the product that you can buy from the shelf. Your criticism, if it is indeed what you claim it to be, is entirely misdirected, and reaching the entirely wrong audience.

Is it? Or maybe you're just being too hard headed to see passed your own opinion. I have played the game all the way through, did every side quest possible, aside from the ones that STILL haven't been fixed and won't activate, despite the new patch. And all I am saying is that if you watch the interviews, you'll see why I'm like this. But, clearly you're too arrogant, considering your first statement.

[Zan Mura]

Well I guess people just have different standards for what's worth their money then. Or perhaps people just like to overreact. I'd wager it's the latter seeing as overreacting never seems to get old, too many people just love to worry.

DA2 wasn't your typical BW game, it had far less choice and far more repetition than any of their games to date, in my opinion. The 360 degree mob spawn wave mechanic sucked, there being precisely one ending and no epilogue texts sucked. The romances being underdeveloped and every romanceable being bi-sexual to spare resources in the production costs, sucked.

But, the game still had a great story, amazing VO, some memorable quests and individual storylines, and a great combat system if you disregard the spawn issues. It looked nice, had a good musical score, and all in all was well worth my money. Basically, it's a step down for BioWare considering their usual very *very* high quality, but compared to what's out there, it's still definitely an RPG with reasonably high standards.

[ziloe]

lx_theo wrote...

ziloe wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Here are your two options.

one

You're either attacking a single person because such a small group on here says that its anything near a masterpiece that the comments would have to be attacking the individual or that small group.

Or two

Your attacking people who thought positively of the game. Which is a much, much larger group than the last one, an has to do with opinion, which is there's to make, not yours to tell them they are wrong for having.

Or three, I just don't want to see the same mistakes made in the third installment and all because people were perfectly satisfied with a lackluster design. It's hard enough finding games these days that are actually good. And finding RPGs that I actually want to play.

Western games are many of the time, too easy. And mostly because the developers don't think Americans are smart enough to handle anything more complicated than your typical God of War, hack and slash storyline.

That may be a motive, not a third option. You were still attacking people. The OP is a blatant attack, and its one of those two.

Nope, not at all. You were giving me very little option. It's slightly reminiscent of DA:2, eh? HA! 

[Lithuasil]

ziloe wrote...


Is it? Or maybe you're just being too hard headed to see passed your own opinion. I have played the game all the way through, did every side quest possible, aside from the ones that STILL haven't been fixed and won't activate, despite the new patch. And all I am saying is that if you watch the interviews, you'll see why I'm like this. But, clearly you're too arrogant, considering your first statement.

Arrogance to those who can afford it.
If there was something you expected, that wasn't in the game, I can perfectly understand why you're upset. I've been there. But you've still failed to explain what influence those interviews have, not on your personal enjoyment of the game (I can see that impact pretty clearly), but on the objective quality of a product.

[ziloe]

Zan Mura wrote...

Well I guess people just have different standards for what's worth their money then. Or perhaps people just like to overreact. I'd wager it's the latter seeing as overreacting never seems to get old, too many people just love to worry.

DA2 wasn't your typical BW game, it had far less choice and far more repetition than any of their games to date, in my opinion. The 360 degree mob spawn wave mechanic sucked, there being precisely one ending and no epilogue texts sucked. The romances being underdeveloped and every romanceable being bi-sexual to spare resources in the production costs, sucked.

But, the game still had a great story, amazing VO, some memorable quests and individual storylines, and a great combat system if you disregard the spawn issues. It looked nice, had a good musical score, and all in all was well worth my money. Basically, it's a step down for BioWare considering their usual very *very* high quality, but compared to what's out there, it's still definitely an RPG with reasonably high standards.

I will agree with your statement, however, they could have done so much more. And this game had so much more potential for creativity, which is why it bothered me so much. I wouldn't have cared if I had to wait another year for it's release. I wanted something boasting the quality they were evoking in those many interviews.

[ziloe]

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...


Is it? Or maybe you're just being too hard headed to see passed your own opinion. I have played the game all the way through, did every side quest possible, aside from the ones that STILL haven't been fixed and won't activate, despite the new patch. And all I am saying is that if you watch the interviews, you'll see why I'm like this. But, clearly you're too arrogant, considering your first statement.

Arrogance to those who can afford it.
If there was something you expected, that wasn't in the game, I can perfectly understand why you're upset. I've been there. But you've still failed to explain what influence those interviews have, not on your personal enjoyment of the game (I can see that impact pretty clearly), but on the objective quality of a product.

Actually I have. I stated it pretty clear in my mini review that is in my previous thread. Would you like me to post it again here?

[lx_theo]

ziloe wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

ziloe wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Here are your two options.

one

You're either attacking a single person because such a small group on here says that its anything near a masterpiece that the comments would have to be attacking the individual or that small group.

Or two

Your attacking people who thought positively of the game. Which is a much, much larger group than the last one, an has to do with opinion, which is there's to make, not yours to tell them they are wrong for having.

Or three, I just don't want to see the same mistakes made in the third installment and all because people were perfectly satisfied with a lackluster design. It's hard enough finding games these days that are actually good. And finding RPGs that I actually want to play.

Western games are many of the time, too easy. And mostly because the developers don't think Americans are smart enough to handle anything more complicated than your typical God of War, hack and slash storyline.

That may be a motive, not a third option. You were still attacking people. The OP is a blatant attack, and its one of those two.

Nope, not at all. You were giving me very little option. It's slightly reminiscent of DA:2, eh? HA! 

Did you even read what you wrote? Or are you that oblivious to everythign thats going on? Probably what it was like for you when playing DA2, eh? HA!

[Lithuasil]

ziloe wrote...


Actually I have. I stated it pretty clear in my mini review that is in my previous thread. Would you like me to post it again here?

If, unlike you did in your other thread, you are going to come up with any valid opinions, feel free to do so.

[ziloe]

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...


Actually I have. I stated it pretty clear in my mini review that is in my previous thread. Would you like me to post it again here?

If, unlike you did in your other thread, you are going to come up with any valid opinions, feel free to do so.

Story:

I felt like this game was so linear, like when I could face the Arishok, no matter what, I would have to fight him. The only difference was in how, alone or with friends. There was no way to avoid a fight all together, no matter how much I played the peace keeper.

They claimed a frame narrative and that barely even happened. Even Prince of Persia did a better job, including when the "Game Over" happened and he went all out to say, "No! No! No! That isn't right..." etc.
I was totally looking forward to this game and all these promises you made of improvements and though some of them were admirable and I enjoyed the game, I couldn't help but see too many parallels to the Mass Effect series. You guys kept going on about the Qun being of one mind and I was like, "God, what are they, the Geth?"

Gameplay:

When it comes to the levels, I was fine at first with a bit of the repetition, but my gawd, you used the warehouse build for the sewers? C'mon! Where's the dirty running water and the cool dark atmosphere, like in games such as The Witcher? I understand its a long game, but I thought Mass Effect 1 learned from this mistake already, so why are you guys making the same mistake over again? If you guys could learn from the Mass Effect conversation wheel, you could take some other pointers as well to learn from when it comes to the complaints. 

Despite all that, they also claimed the world would change and grow over the years and it didn't. A couple places were removed like the Qunari base, some level maps forced the same map, but didn't allow you access to certain areas because you were visiting "another" place, despite it being the same. 


Origins and Graphics:

As for Hawke, he never once needed to be the role of a human. You could have had options of your origin continuing and like in Origins, it would have barely affected anything if you played an Elf or a Dwarf, albeit a few minor comments. It's not like you'd need a new voice actor either, it could have remained the same and I doubt it would have bothered anyone to do so.

I have a high end computer and even with its specs, I still saw Origins style. Even the hair options were barely there, everything was the same, minus a few tweeks. 

The Ending:

I posted this in my other thread, though I believe it's appropriate enough for here too. After finding out about what Anders does and playing through that last bit over again, which mind you I expected more after, since this was ONLY the SEVENTH YEAR and Bioware stated TEN! I decided to go through my saves again and this time deny helping Anders enter the chantry covertly. 
Then, right after that, I went directly to the chantry to activate what was supposedly the last part. I honestly believed maybe I missed something to make it go further into the story. However! SOMEHOW, Anders though being with me the ENTIRE time, had time to blow up the chantry. Seriously?! 

Unlike Origins, you've limited our options entirely and though you might have brought in a wider audience, they've in fact stamped on those who were here the entire time. I honestly felt cheated with how severely they severed my paths, making only two or three viable options, in spite of none really mattering because it all leads you down the same road.

Also, note that this is before I discovered following the Templars made the same path, just a few different words.

[redBadger14]

I will address the claims being thrown at marketing

Whether you like it or not, the job of the marketing department is to advertise the product to influence you to buy it. If you bought DA2 partly because of marketing, then they did their job. If some things became clear that they were slightly over-exaggerated by the marketing department, well that's not their fault. It's yours.

All marketing cares about is to get the product known and to get people to buy the product. What you choose to believe based on how DA2 is marketed is your fault alone. You can choose to ignore it, or not "buy in" to the hype. Do not blame marketing for your distaste with DA2.

Your judgement of DA2 therefore seemed to have slightly been made before it was released based on the hype. That's unfortunate.

This isn't to say that marketing over-exaggerated aspects of DA2. They most certainly did in some aspects of DA2.

I am enjoying DA2 and that is based on my judgement of the game reserved for as I play it, not based on marketing before I have a chance to play it. With that being said, I'm done with this sorry excuse for a thread. Hopefully Evil Chris locks it before it gets out of hand.

[Lithuasil]

I asked for a valid opinion.
THE VERY FIRST STATEMENT YOU MAKE IN YOUR VERY FIRST SENTENCE IS PLAIN WRONG. (to my knowledge, anyway)
And it only goes downhill from there :/

Modifié par Lithuasil, 24 mars 2011 - 09:48 .

[ziloe]

redBadger14 wrote...

I will address the claims being thrown at marketing

Whether you like it or not, the job of the marketing department is to advertise the product to influence you to buy it. If you bought DA2 partly because of marketing, then they did their job. If some things became clear that they were slightly over-exaggerated by the marketing department, well that's not their fault. It's yours.

All marketing cares about is to get the product known and to get people to buy the product. What you choose to believe based on how DA2 is marketed is your fault alone. You can choose to ignore it, or not "buy in" to the hype. Do not blame marketing for your distaste with DA2.

Your judgement of DA2 therefore seemed to have slightly been made before it was released based on the hype. That's unfortunate.

This isn't to say that marketing over-exaggerated aspects of DA2. They most certainly did in some aspects of DA2.

I am enjoying DA2 and that is based on my judgement of the game reserved for as I play it, not based on marketing before I have a chance to play it. With that being said, I'm done with this sorry excuse for a thread. Hopefully Evil Chris locks it before it gets out of hand.

You realize these "marketers" were game developers, like the lead designer and lead writer, right? It wasn't just some dude in a suit, looking all fancy and talking with big words. I bought David's two books dammit! And all so I could immerse myself further in the Dragon Age lore. The fans deserve more respect. D:

That's the only reason this thread is here, because without people speaking out about it, we will only further get stepped on.

[nicodeemus327]

Lithuasil wrote...

I asked for a valid opinion.
THE VERY FIRST STATEMENT YOU MAKE IN YOUR VERY FIRST SENTENCE IS PLAIN WRONG. (to my knowledge, anyway)
And it only goes downhill from there :/

Yeah, you don't have to fight the Arishok. You can give him Isabela and the relic. They take their ball and go home so to speak. This is a great example of why his argument isn't valid. He takes his expereinces and assumes everyone had the same. There's plenty of choice in the game. He simply refuses to acknolwedge it. I guess ignorance isn't bliss in his case.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 24 mars 2011 - 09:52 .

[ziloe]

Lithuasil wrote...

I asked for a valid opinion.
THE VERY FIRST STATEMENT YOU MAKE IN YOUR VERY FIRST SENTENCE IS PLAIN WRONG. (to my knowledge, anyway)
And it only goes downhill from there :/

See? To your knowledge. I went back to an older save and re did a few things. That's how I know that.

[Lithuasil]

Have you turned Isabella over to the arishok and still had to fight him?

[ziloe]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

I asked for a valid opinion.
THE VERY FIRST STATEMENT YOU MAKE IN YOUR VERY FIRST SENTENCE IS PLAIN WRONG. (to my knowledge, anyway)
And it only goes downhill from there :/

Yeah, you don't have to fight the Arishok. You can give him Isabela and the relic. They take their ball and go home so to speak. This is a great example of why his argument isn't valid. He takes his expereinces and assumes everyone had the same.

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

[nicodeemus327]

ziloe wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

I asked for a valid opinion.
THE VERY FIRST STATEMENT YOU MAKE IN YOUR VERY FIRST SENTENCE IS PLAIN WRONG. (to my knowledge, anyway)
And it only goes downhill from there :/

See? To your knowledge. I went back to an older save and re did a few things. That's how I know that.

So? Just because you didn't choose a certain path doesn't mean the choices didn't exist. There's plenty all over the place, we've given you examples, and you simply refuse to acknowledge them.

[Lithuasil]

ziloe wrote...

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

And how many ways were there to stop King Aeducan from dying, Connor from making a deal with a demon, Zathrian cursing the werewolf and Ulric going Bloodmage again?
And how many of the bosses in Origins could be persuaded to leave, after their demands were met?

[nicodeemus327]

ziloe wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

I asked for a valid opinion.
THE VERY FIRST STATEMENT YOU MAKE IN YOUR VERY FIRST SENTENCE IS PLAIN WRONG. (to my knowledge, anyway)
And it only goes downhill from there :/

Yeah, you don't have to fight the Arishok. You can give him Isabela and the relic. They take their ball and go home so to speak. This is a great example of why his argument isn't valid. He takes his expereinces and assumes everyone had the same.

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

And? Some events you can change. Some you can't. That was advertised in the pre-release interviews. I know that much. They explicitly said what happens doesn't always change, especially the big things, like the Qunari attack. How the player handles them does change.

So much smoke you're blowing.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 24 mars 2011 - 09:57 .

[ziloe]

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

And how many ways were there to stop King Aeducan from dying, Connor from making a deal with a demon, Zathrian cursing the werewolf and Ulric going Bloodmage again?
And how many of the bosses in Origins could be persuaded to leave, after their demands were met?

How about using some legitimate examples, instead of using ones that happened while you weren't even there!

[lx_theo]

ziloe wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

And how many ways were there to stop King Aeducan from dying, Connor from making a deal with a demon, Zathrian cursing the werewolf and Ulric going Bloodmage again?
And how many of the bosses in Origins could be persuaded to leave, after their demands were met?

How about using some legitimate examples, instead of using ones that happened while you weren't even there!

Why does everythign need to be under the Player Character's control. If I'm there, apparently I should be able to stop a plan that was made over the course of a long time, with my skills and effects on it considered in planning stages.

[Lithuasil]

ziloe wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

And how many ways were there to stop King Aeducan from dying, Connor from making a deal with a demon, Zathrian cursing the werewolf and Ulric going Bloodmage again?
And how many of the bosses in Origins could be persuaded to leave, after their demands were met?

How about using some legitimate examples, instead of using ones that happened while you weren't even there!

Ok why couldn't I stop Loghains betrayal at ostagar? I mean, just like the arishoks plan, I had no ****ing clue it was gonna happen, but I should've totally been able to stop that and end the blight right there!

[ziloe]

lx_theo wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

And how many ways were there to stop King Aeducan from dying, Connor from making a deal with a demon, Zathrian cursing the werewolf and Ulric going Bloodmage again?
And how many of the bosses in Origins could be persuaded to leave, after their demands were met?

How about using some legitimate examples, instead of using ones that happened while you weren't even there!

Why does everythign need to be under the Player Character's control. If I'm there, apparently I should be able to stop a plan that was made over the course of a long time, with my skills and effects on it considered in planning stages.

Who are you trying to disagree with? I told her that that couldn't happen because those events predate your entrance. She did this in the other thread too, using event examples that obviously can't be changed.

[ziloe]

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

But the Arishok still ransacks the place beforehand. There is no way to stop that.

And how many ways were there to stop King Aeducan from dying, Connor from making a deal with a demon, Zathrian cursing the werewolf and Ulric going Bloodmage again?
And how many of the bosses in Origins could be persuaded to leave, after their demands were met?

How about using some legitimate examples, instead of using ones that happened while you weren't even there!

Ok why couldn't I stop Loghains betrayal at ostagar? I mean, just like the arishoks plan, I had no ****ing clue it was gonna happen, but I should've totally been able to stop that and end the blight right there!

The blight wouldn't have ended. The broodmother's make thousands per day. You also don't get to know Loghain enough, because you're still a nobody. Certain things make sense and set the mood. Others, like in DA:2, could have been prevented, the ending being the most prominent. For example, I skipped helping Anders obtain his ingredients and still he managed to get the stuff and still managed to get inside the Chantry covertly. That bothered me the most.