266 réponses à ce sujet

[Maconbar]

ziloe wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

ziloe wrote...
Graphics? What the hell are you even talking about?

By bringing "have you ever played D&D into a discussion about a videogame, you render your own opinion pretty much invalid. Now add in, that just a few posts ago, you were actively excusing the railroading in a different game, and we're entering troll territory.

Do you even know what D&D is? It's a roleplaying table top game. It's what the Dragon Age series is attempting to be. They give you choices and the game alters depending on what you do. Talking to you is pretty boring though, because you only see what you want to see. I'm giving you what I've experienced, and you continue to give me these suedo answers and even unclear responses that even you're not sure of, despite me telling you otherwise.

Why do you suggest that Dragon Age is attempting to be D&D? Other than some marketing junk from DA:O there is little evidence that supports this assertion.

[expanding panic]

ziloe wrote...



 You know what? It's people like you who make both EA and the game designers think they did a spectacular job and don't have to work any harder on the next one. They can do just another rush job so that EA can monopolize on the success of the franchise, and why? Because you didn't have any real standards and as long as you carry this mentality, they're going to produce more rushed games and DLC, because you couldn't say, "No. This isn't worth the money I'm paying for it."

ATTN ZILOE

You are a freaking idiot! The real reason EA and BIOWARE does a so called rush job is because people like YOU and me went out and bought the game. The only thing that any company cares about is making money. And the only way to stop a Bioware from making a "rushed game" is having no one buy the game. And seeing how You and me and a whole lot of other people are going to by the expansion and DLC and DA3 they have no reason to change anything. So before you start blaming someone else look in the  mirror and B**** to yourself. Because your bought the game to knowing that it only took a little over a year. So you should of had a good idea that the game was rushed. 

And the original thread is sort of right I wouldn't say mater piece but it is a pretty good game. Don't compare it to DAO  because it's not . DA2 is it's own and being honest DA2 did things better then DAO. I agree that DAO is a better game but DA2 isn't nearly as bad as people are trying to make it sound. DA2 is it's own game  so judge it by what it does not by another game. 

Modifié par expanding panic, 25 mars 2011 - 12:33 .

[Volourn]

Example of C&C in DA1: Do a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l , m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, or z and kill archdemon. LMAO that is some C&C boys some C&C for sure.

[ziloe]

Lithuasil wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

da0Xeffect2 wrote...

You're mad because it could have been better. There's a lot of games that could have been better. There's a bunch of things that could have been done with Origins. Maybe you should walk a day in a developer's shoes and try to make a game that everyone loves with a given time table to complete it.

No, no. Every game -could- be better. People aren't hating on DA2 because it "could be better", they're hating on it because it doesn't live up to the legacy of Origins or the high promises the dev team made. As a stand-alone it's an alright game, but it fails utterly as a sequel to Origins.

See, that's an assumption, something you simply claim. And if I could find a single element about DA2 that isn't an improvement, that assumption would be somewhat easier to take seriously.

You're delusional! It's not an assumption and if you'd get your head out from under the sand, maybe you might actually see that they are facts stated by the very developers of the game, who then didn't follow through. 

[ziloe]

expanding panic wrote...

ziloe wrote...



 You know what? It's people like you who make both EA and the game designers think they did a spectacular job and don't have to work any harder on the next one. They can do just another rush job so that EA can monopolize on the success of the franchise, and why? Because you didn't have any real standards and as long as you carry this mentality, they're going to produce more rushed games and DLC, because you couldn't say, "No. This isn't worth the money I'm paying for it."

ATTN ZILOE

You are a freaking idiot! The real reason EA and BIOWARE does a so called rush job is because people like YOU and me went out and bought the game. The only thing that any company cares about is making money. And the only way to stop a Bioware from making a "rushed game" is having no one buy the game. And seeing how You and me and a whole lot of other people are going to by the expansion and DLC and DA3 they have no reason to change anything. So before you start blaming someone else look in the  mirror and B**** to yourself. Because your bought the game to knowing that it only took a little over a year. So you should of had a good idea that the game was rushed. 

And the original thread is sort of right I wouldn't say mater piece but it is a pretty good game. Don't compare it to DAO  because it's not . DA2 is it's own and being honest DA2 did things better then DAO. I agree that DAO is a better game but DA2 isn't nearly as bad as people are trying to make it sound. DA2 is it's own game  so judge it by what it does not by another game. 

Right, I'm a total idiot for trying to have faith in this company. Yeah, okay there. 

[Melca36]

Lithuasil wrote...

I only finished it once. I *tried* to play through it again, I really did, but gave up somewhere between the fade and the deep roads. I also played through DA2 four times. In one week. Guess that makes the second installment a massive disappointment and a huge step backwa

oh
wait.

Sounds like you're just a gamer who prefers instant gratifcation which is what DA:2 provides. Thats not to say its a bad thing but when the market panders to one segment of gamers everybody loses.

[Lithuasil]

ziloe wrote...

You're delusional! It's not an assumption and if you'd get your head out from under the sand, maybe you might actually see that they are facts stated by the very developers of the game, who then didn't follow through. 

And how is an improvement not an improvement, because it's not as big as you hoped it to be?

[Melca36]

Zan Mura wrote...

Well I guess people just have different standards for what's worth their money then. Or perhaps people just like to overreact. I'd wager it's the latter seeing as overreacting never seems to get old, too many people just love to worry.

DA2 wasn't your typical BW game, it had far less choice and far more repetition than any of their games to date, in my opinion. The 360 degree mob spawn wave mechanic sucked, there being precisely one ending and no epilogue texts sucked. The romances being underdeveloped and every romanceable being bi-sexual to spare resources in the production costs, sucked.

But, the game still had a great story, amazing VO, some memorable quests and individual storylines, and a great combat system if you disregard the spawn issues. It looked nice, had a good musical score, and all in all was well worth my money. Basically, it's a step down for BioWare considering their usual very *very* high quality, but compared to what's out there, it's still definitely an RPG with reasonably high standards.

This is a good and reasonable post....

I rate the game a 7/8

Its not as bad as people make it out to be but its no where near the caliber of Origins.

[Lithuasil]

Melca36 wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

I only finished it once. I *tried* to play through it again, I really did, but gave up somewhere between the fade and the deep roads. I also played through DA2 four times. In one week. Guess that makes the second installment a massive disappointment and a huge step backwa

oh
wait.

Sounds like you're just a gamer who prefers instant gratifcation which is what DA:2 provides. Thats not to say its a bad thing but when the market panders to one segment of gamers everybody loses.

When it's the second game in my entire gaming career I cared enough about, from a roleplaying perspective, to start writing fanfiction about - hardly

[Babi]

AND the Lord said, "Feed not the trolls, for they will bite the hand that feeds."

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...

And how is an improvement not an improvement, because it's not as big as you hoped it to be?

You have yet to demonstrate any of these 'improvements' you've mentioned. Examples?

[Lithuasil]

Everwarden wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

And how is an improvement not an improvement, because it's not as big as you hoped it to be?

You have yet to demonstrate any of these 'improvements' you've mentioned. Examples?

The Story, the gameplay, the game-world, the characters, the graphics, the crafting, the rivalry-friendship system, the voice acting, the dialogue, the banter? Did I miss anything?

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...
The Story,

No. They went too from in the other direction. Where Origins was too linear, Dragon Age 2 has no direction or coherence. You never learn about the antagonists as people, and the entire plot is forced along by a McGuffin (always a bad sign). The end is an abrupt smack against a brick wall that leaves no closure. The entire 'story' feels like necessary set-up for a future game, not a story that needed to be told on its own merits.

the gameplay,

The gameplay was improved from Origins. 

the game-world,

Only a blind fanboy shill (or a troll) would praise the game-world. It's the same bland city, over and over. The same cave, the same coast, and the same factory. 

the characters,

The characters were fine, but underdeveloped. Nowhere near the same level of interaction that you got in Origins.

the graphics,

This comes down entirely to taste, but I liked Origins more. The elves look ridiculous now, and the opening area looks like it should be on the Nintendo 64. 

the crafting, the rivalry-friendship system,

No, and yes. 

the voice acting, the dialogue, the banter? Did I miss anything?

The voice acting was fine, though having a voiced protagonist is extremely annoying and the voice wheel just ruins any chance to actually play the character you want (if you want a character more nuanced than kind, sarcastic, or mean). The dialogue was fine for the most part, though they ruined Anders. The banter was great.

You missed explaining how all of these features improved upon Origins. 

Modifié par Everwarden, 25 mars 2011 - 01:26 .

[sgreco1970]

Parrk wrote...

Posting in a venomous hate thread.

nah, stating a solid opinion. i think its good he made a seperate thread, otherwise, people might just see the original thread and think everyone thinks its a "masterpiece."

[sgreco1970]

Babi wrote...

AND the Lord said, "Feed not the trolls, for they will bite the hand that feeds."

..isnt that trolling?

[Lithuasil]

Fine. Just this once, against better judgement.

Everwarden wrote...

No. They went too from in the other direction. Where Origins was too linear, Dragon Age 2 has no direction or coherence. You never learn about the antagonists as people, and the entire plot is forced along by a McGuffin (always a bad sign). The end is an abrupt smack against a brick wall that leaves no closure. The entire 'story' feels like necessary set-up for a future game, not a story that needed to be told on its own merits.

Origins forced me into a conflict where Mudbrownistan is threatened by undead orcs, led by an undead dragon that is also a demon. I could only care less about that story, if it was written in french.
DA2, by shifting focus to a single person, gave me a reason to care. Frankly, I have read and played so many epics in my lifetime, I can make stories that are more interesting then righteous heroes fighting dark lords, during breakfast. Hawke on the other hand is no hero. And unlike the warden, Hawke has reason to do what she does. I personally didn't like the framed narrative, but the ending was a brilliant sucker punch, displaying more then anything else - "You are no hero, no immortal god child that can shape this world at will, you're just a person. No outsider on a playground, a part of the world. And that's exactly what I want from an rpg.

Everwarden wrote...
The gameplay was improved from Origins. 

Aside from "best served cold", this is where my biggest problem with the game lies. A singleplayer title should *always* adapt gameplay to lore and story - rather then presenting us with excellent lore and story, but giving us lackluster mmo-style gameplay. Still a step up from the tedium that was origins though.

Everwarden wrote...
Only a blind fanboy shill (or a troll) would praise the game-world. It's the same bland city, over and over. The same cave, the same coast, and the same factory. 

It might be personal taste, but I liked Kirkwall a hundred times more then the four twohundred square foot pieces I got to see of Mudbrownistan. At the least, it wasn't the same piece of York ca 1285 that ALL fantasy usually takes place in. Additionally, the hub-based environments bioware does work much much better, when they're relatively close together, so I can atleast assume I got a pretty decent representation of what it looks like, as opposed to arbitrary borders in Origins.
The recycled maps didn't really bother me that much - how much different do you expect two different sewer passages in the same city to look? Sure, it got a bit much towards the end, and the game could have used more polish - but I'd much rather see that polish applied in other areas first.

Everwarden wrote...

The characters were fine, but underdeveloped. Nowhere near the same level of interaction that you got in Origins.

You mean the deep and meaningful interaction where you try to find some new dialogue, wading through the except same lines for half an hour have some meaningful talk, get +3 approval, and then just bribe them until they love you? It might be taste (I had honest problems finding a fourth party member in origins, that I didn't hate), but I prefer the new system. Again, there's room for improvement, but the fact they have homes and lives of their own now, as opposed to waiting in the camp like good pokemon in their balls, makes the DA2 system much much better by my book.

Everwarden wrote...
This comes down entirely to taste, but I liked Origins more. The elves look ridiculous now, and the opening area looks like it should be on the Nintendo 64.  

The elves now look like a distinct race, as opposed to "small humans with pointy ears". Agree on the opening area though.

Everwarden wrote...

The voice acting was fine, though having a voiced protagonist is extremely annoying and the voice wheel just ruins any chance to actually play the character you want (if you want a character more nuanced than kind, sarcastic, or mean). The dialogue was fine for the most part, though they ruined Anders. The banter was great.

I feel we will hardly agree on that, but - the second you left your origin story, roleplaying in origins became impossible for me by virtually the fact that I cannot fathom how insane suicidal or retarded a person would have to be to follow that plot, or even join the wardens in the first place.
That said - sure the dialogue wheel isn't perfect but it's much, much, much better then what origins did, and having your character actually adapt to how you play him or her, based on your answers, is a feature that puts DA2 ahead of pretty much every game I know in this field.

[sgreco1970]

Lithuasil wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

And how is an improvement not an improvement, because it's not as big as you hoped it to be?

You have yet to demonstrate any of these 'improvements' you've mentioned. Examples?

The Story, the gameplay, the game-world, the characters, the graphics, the crafting, the rivalry-friendship system, the voice acting, the dialogue, the banter? Did I miss anything?

Yes, your objectivity. You mean to tell me a story you cannot affect in any way whatsoever, that is totally completed in under 30 hours, is an improvement over DAO? You thought the voice acting was better? maybe for Hawke but thats only because previously he was mute. There were conversations Alistair and Wynne or Morrigan had that had me laughing out loud. That never happened in this at all. It was all so bland. What was so much better about the crafting? It was lazy? Pick 5 herbs and you can use them forever? Why even bother with crafting then, why didnt they just put infinite potions in my house? The graphics, in some ways were better. Shinier, brighter. I enjoyed them. And that enjoyment wore thin every time I entered the same cave, the same house, the same wilderness, over and over and over.

Im sorry, but if those are "improvements" I'll give up progress.

[expanding panic]

ziloe wrote...

expanding panic wrote...

ziloe wrote...



 You know what? It's people like you who make both EA and the game designers think they did a spectacular job and don't have to work any harder on the next one. They can do just another rush job so that EA can monopolize on the success of the franchise, and why? Because you didn't have any real standards and as long as you carry this mentality, they're going to produce more rushed games and DLC, because you couldn't say, "No. This isn't worth the money I'm paying for it."

ATTN ZILOE

You are a freaking idiot! The real reason EA and BIOWARE does a so called rush job is because people like YOU and me went out and bought the game. The only thing that any company cares about is making money. And the only way to stop a Bioware from making a "rushed game" is having no one buy the game. And seeing how You and me and a whole lot of other people are going to by the expansion and DLC and DA3 they have no reason to change anything. So before you start blaming someone else look in the  mirror and B**** to yourself. Because your bought the game to knowing that it only took a little over a year. So you should of had a good idea that the game was rushed. 

And the original thread is sort of right I wouldn't say mater piece but it is a pretty good game. Don't compare it to DAO  because it's not . DA2 is it's own and being honest DA2 did things better then DAO. I agree that DAO is a better game but DA2 isn't nearly as bad as people are trying to make it sound. DA2 is it's own game  so judge it by what it does not by another game. 

Right, I'm a total idiot for trying to have faith in this company. Yeah, okay there. 

No your an idiot because your blaming the guy who said DA2 is a mater piece and you think he's the reason DA2 is that way it is. When in fact DA2 is a pretty good game. And why how you put it Bioware doesn't have to change when you just as at fault as well as I am and whoever else will by the DLC and expansions or whatever Bioware decides to come out with. But at least I'm not blaming someone else for Bioware being the way they are in their new design of games.

[JJDrakken]

Everwarden wrote...

ziloe wrote...

 You know what? It's people like you who make both EA and the game designers think they did a spectacular job and don't have to work any harder on the next one. They can do just another rush job so that EA can monopolize on the success of the franchise, and why? Because you didn't have any real standards and as long as you carry this mentality, they're going to produce more rushed games and DLC, because you couldn't say, "No. This isn't worth the money I'm paying for it."

While I agree completely, I don't see why this needed to be a thread and not a reply. 

Because we as Humans are self entitled & self important, demand everyone hears what you have to say & think about anything, but in reality you don't get that option.  Thus internet allows you to spout off constantly, we all are guilty of it.

JJ

[ziloe]

expanding panic wrote...

ziloe wrote...

expanding panic wrote...

ziloe wrote...



 You know what? It's people like you who make both EA and the game designers think they did a spectacular job and don't have to work any harder on the next one. They can do just another rush job so that EA can monopolize on the success of the franchise, and why? Because you didn't have any real standards and as long as you carry this mentality, they're going to produce more rushed games and DLC, because you couldn't say, "No. This isn't worth the money I'm paying for it."

ATTN ZILOE

You are a freaking idiot! The real reason EA and BIOWARE does a so called rush job is because people like YOU and me went out and bought the game. The only thing that any company cares about is making money. And the only way to stop a Bioware from making a "rushed game" is having no one buy the game. And seeing how You and me and a whole lot of other people are going to by the expansion and DLC and DA3 they have no reason to change anything. So before you start blaming someone else look in the  mirror and B**** to yourself. Because your bought the game to knowing that it only took a little over a year. So you should of had a good idea that the game was rushed. 

And the original thread is sort of right I wouldn't say mater piece but it is a pretty good game. Don't compare it to DAO  because it's not . DA2 is it's own and being honest DA2 did things better then DAO. I agree that DAO is a better game but DA2 isn't nearly as bad as people are trying to make it sound. DA2 is it's own game  so judge it by what it does not by another game. 

Right, I'm a total idiot for trying to have faith in this company. Yeah, okay there. 

No your an idiot because your blaming the guy who said DA2 is a mater piece and you think he's the reason DA2 is that way it is. When in fact DA2 is a pretty good game. And why how you put it Bioware doesn't have to change when you just as at fault as well as I am and whoever else will by the DLC and expansions or whatever Bioware decides to come out with. But at least I'm not blaming someone else for Bioware being the way they are in their new design of games.

Clearly the only idiot here is you, for not knowing how to read. I didn't blame the person who made the other topic. I said that mentality won't give the game designers the realization they need, so that next time, they will make a better game; albeit it being nicer if they were to improve this one and do it over like they did for The Witcher.

[ziloe]

sgreco1970 wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

And how is an improvement not an improvement, because it's not as big as you hoped it to be?

You have yet to demonstrate any of these 'improvements' you've mentioned. Examples?

The Story, the gameplay, the game-world, the characters, the graphics, the crafting, the rivalry-friendship system, the voice acting, the dialogue, the banter? Did I miss anything?

Yes, your objectivity. You mean to tell me a story you cannot affect in any way whatsoever, that is totally completed in under 30 hours, is an improvement over DAO? You thought the voice acting was better? maybe for Hawke but thats only because previously he was mute. There were conversations Alistair and Wynne or Morrigan had that had me laughing out loud. That never happened in this at all. It was all so bland. What was so much better about the crafting? It was lazy? Pick 5 herbs and you can use them forever? Why even bother with crafting then, why didnt they just put infinite potions in my house? The graphics, in some ways were better. Shinier, brighter. I enjoyed them. And that enjoyment wore thin every time I entered the same cave, the same house, the same wilderness, over and over and over.

Im sorry, but if those are "improvements" I'll give up progress.

Lol, it's good to know I'm not alone in this. 

[Zan Mura]

JJDrakken wrote...

Because we as Humans are self entitled & self important, demand everyone hears what you have to say & think about anything, but in reality you don't get that option.  Thus internet allows you to spout off constantly, we all are guilty of it.

JJ

We're all guilty of it, yes. But some clearly far more than others. Anyway, hear hear!

[Lord Gremlin]

I look at the bright side - we got the sequel real quick. I'm not getting any younger, you know. Faster, Bioware! Faster!

[Grovermancer]

Don't worry, the "weakling cowardly apologist fanboi cheerleader trolls" in this thread will be gone by the time DA3 releases anyhow...  Their obvlious optimism is really just a form of hatred for the truth anyhow...


Amusing analogy:
I recently started playing Champions Online F2P.  There are some fundamental problems w/ the game.   Targetting, for example, doesn't quite work right.  I checked the forums, and and noticed a warning/prediction-post from release, about how if such things weren't fixed, the game was doomed.

And of course, there were all sorts of weakling, cowardly, apoligist fanboi cheerleader trolls, shouting down the criticism.

And of course, CO was failing, and CO had to go F2P.  For many of the reasons warned about in the thread.

The OP was right.  Even better, those fanboi cheerleaders -- whom I'd also recognized trying to defend STO which was also tanking -- they also stopped posting shortly after that thread, having left the game as well LOL!!!


Same thing happened with many of the DAO cheerleaders.  Hell, I give DAO a 9.5 ...but that doesn't mean there weren't flaws.  If you were to make a thread here about those flaws when DAO released... burned at the stake.  Some of those loudmouthed apologists spent every waking moment on these boards, shouting down any criticism, or even pointed questions, about DAO.

Most of them are gone now, too.


Same will happen to the apologists in this thread.  Especially the ones that joined yesterday, pom-poms in hand.

They'll justify all the blunders and crap in DA2.  LOL, they'll even pretend they're "improvements," then run to the lazy ol' "it's all just opinion" excuse used by those who have no debate to make.  They are the lowest common denominator that DA2 is trying to appeal to.  And they're the ones who are helping run DA into the ground.

Watch 'em leave and go spread their weakness elsewhere when that time comes.



EDIT:  For the record, I give DA2 a 6.5   (could have easily been an 8.5)

Modifié par Grovermancer, 26 mars 2011 - 04:14 .

[Sazzle]

ziloe wrote...

 You know what? It's people like you who make both EA and the game designers think they did a spectacular job and don't have to work any harder on the next one. They can do just another rush job so that EA can monopolize on the success of the franchise, and why? Because you didn't have any real standards and as long as you carry this mentality, they're going to produce more rushed games and DLC, because you couldn't say, "No. This isn't worth the money I'm paying for it."

Dude, chill out, I enjoyed the game, you didn't: it doesn't matter!  Maybe I was a little too enthusiastic in my initial review, I don't know, but that's what it was, a review, and a review from a layman at that.  I was just expressing my enjoyment of the game.  It wasn't meant to be an insult or provoke anger, it was just what I thought.  Taking pleasure in things, even though they might not be perfect to oneself, is no bad thing, it just makes life more enjoyable!  I appreciate that it wasn't Shakespeare, but then that wasn't what I was looking for - I come home from hours of lecturing, studying and reading countless dry papers and what i'm yearning for is something I can chill out to and enjoy.  Maybe i'm a discredit to you guys on these forums, I don't know as I haven't been using them long, it's just that i feel these games are different things to different people.  I want an intelligent game that allows me to relax and take pleasure in playing it; a literature fanatic might be looking for the script of a lifetime; an improvised comedian might be looking for flexibility in dialogue; an artist might be looking for the beauty of the design.  Regardless it's nice that people can have opinions on these things, good or bad, and that we can discuss it: that's all I was trying to initiate via my initial post.

Modifié par Sazzle, 26 mars 2011 - 09:54 .