266 réponses à ce sujet

[FrozenDawn]

One question to all those guys defending the game here: Did you actually play DA:O?
Did you NOTICE the differences? Lack of choices? no more multiple ways to solve quests?

And more importantly: Did you not ****ing SEE the bugs in DA2?? the skills not working, the plot holes, the shameless recycling of maps? I mean you basically stay in one city and three outdoor ares all the time?
Man u guys should go play some WOW - no wait WOW actually has betatesters and lots of different areals...

[Foolsfolly]

Even stripped of the Dragon Age title this game's story is laughable. It's barely there, you know nothing about anyone involved, and then demons, insanity, and a plot item are behind everything.

Yay! What a great story! I'm so glad the characters drove this story and not plot points!

[KAAurious]

Masterpiece? No.

Is it as bad as 99% of the internet says it is? No.

[ziloe]

Grovermancer wrote...


Don't worry, the "weakling cowardly apologist fanboi cheerleader trolls" in this thread will be gone by the time DA3 releases anyhow...  Their obvlious optimism is really just a form of hatred for the truth anyhow...


Amusing analogy:
I recently started playing Champions Online F2P.  There are some fundamental problems w/ the game.   Targetting, for example, doesn't quite work right.  I checked the forums, and and noticed a warning/prediction-post from release, about how if such things weren't fixed, the game was doomed.

And of course, there were all sorts of weakling, cowardly, apoligist fanboi cheerleader trolls, shouting down the criticism.

And of course, CO was failing, and CO had to go F2P.  For many of the reasons warned about in the thread.

The OP was right.  Even better, those fanboi cheerleaders -- whom I'd also recognized trying to defend STO which was also tanking -- they also stopped posting shortly after that thread, having left the game as well LOL!!!


Same thing happened with many of the DAO cheerleaders.  Hell, I give DAO a 9.5 ...but that doesn't mean there weren't flaws.  If you were to make a thread here about those flaws when DAO released... burned at the stake.  Some of those loudmouthed apologists spent every waking moment on these boards, shouting down any criticism, or even pointed questions, about DAO.

Most of them are gone now, too.


Same will happen to the apologists in this thread.  Especially the ones that joined yesterday, pom-poms in hand.

They'll justify all the blunders and crap in DA2.  LOL, they'll even pretend they're "improvements," then run to the lazy ol' "it's all just opinion" excuse used by those who have no debate to make.  They are the lowest common denominator that DA2 is trying to appeal to.  And they're the ones who are helping run DA into the ground.

Watch 'em leave and go spread their weakness elsewhere when that time comes.



EDIT:  For the record, I give DA2 a 6.5   (could have easily been an 8.5)

I applaud your comments. It's so true, yet so sad too.

[ziloe]

KAAurious wrote...

Masterpiece? No.

Is it as bad as 99% of the internet says it is? No.

If 99% of the internet (which conglomerates all sorts of opinions) said it was bad, then wouldn't your statement be wrong? =/

[ziloe]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Even stripped of the Dragon Age title this game's story is laughable. It's barely there, you know nothing about anyone involved, and then demons, insanity, and a plot item are behind everything.

Yay! What a great story! I'm so glad the characters drove this story and not plot points!

Honestly, I hated how the sidequests for your companions felt so forced. It wasn't something that just came up, it was like you had to go there in order to force it, instead of feeling like, hey I should go to Fenris's house and see what he's up to, the game is like: go to Fenris's house! :@

[Aloradus]

Lithuasil wrote...


Tearing your position apart won't exactly be hard with almost the entirety of two games to back up my arguments. Problem is, you're not here to get into debate (and infact have proven to leave other threads the very second you're confronted with an argument). You're here to spout insults, and celebrate your rage. 
I'm perfectly willing to tear your position down again, like I have the same very position in about five different threads today alone. But I won't waste the effort, as long as you're clearly beyond the reach of words.
Dude listen to yourself, just count the insults you've been vomiting out on this page alone. And then have a cold shower, and come back once you're interested in any form of debate. Don't worry, I'll wait.

You crack me up. 

I've yet to see you put forward a thoughtful argument on anything.   If you think its an improvment over everything in DA:O you are clueless hun.  Aaron Rayburn is that you?! rofl Have you abandon pen to infiltrate gaming?

[ziloe]

Aloradus wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...


Tearing your position apart won't exactly be hard with almost the entirety of two games to back up my arguments. Problem is, you're not here to get into debate (and infact have proven to leave other threads the very second you're confronted with an argument). You're here to spout insults, and celebrate your rage. 
I'm perfectly willing to tear your position down again, like I have the same very position in about five different threads today alone. But I won't waste the effort, as long as you're clearly beyond the reach of words.
Dude listen to yourself, just count the insults you've been vomiting out on this page alone. And then have a cold shower, and come back once you're interested in any form of debate. Don't worry, I'll wait.

You crack me up. 

I've yet to see you put forward a thoughtful argument on anything.   If you think its an improvment over everything in DA:O you are clueless hun.  Aaron Rayburn is that you?! rofl Have you abandon pen to infiltrate gaming?

Wait, who?

[ziloe]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Even stripped of the Dragon Age title this game's story is laughable. It's barely there, you know nothing about anyone involved, and then demons, insanity, and a plot item are behind everything.

Yay! What a great story! I'm so glad the characters drove this story and not plot points!

It's even more disappointing to learn that one of the original Origins developers left because he didn't feel it was still a DA game. And even though he "apparently" said that the demo was done well, I still have my doubts. 

[jaybee93]

*barfs on this thread, and all others like it*

[ziloe]

jaybee93 wrote...

*barfs on this thread, and all others like it*

What a beautifully elequint rebuttal. 

[jaybee93]

ziloe wrote...

jaybee93 wrote...

*barfs on this thread, and all others like it*

What a beautifully elequint rebuttal. 

I try.

Well actually here I didn't. But only because I'm tired of coming onto the forums to find yet another thread saying that people are not allowed to like the game.

[ziloe]

jaybee93 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

jaybee93 wrote...

*barfs on this thread, and all others like it*

What a beautifully elequint rebuttal. 

I try.

Well actually here I didn't. But only because I'm tired of coming onto the forums to find yet another thread saying that people are not allowed to like the game.

No one said to not like the game. I simply said that as long as we have such low standards and accept things how they are, the companies (in general) will continue to create bad games. It doesn't mean that this was a god awful game. There were parts I liked. However, that doesn't mean it couldn't have been better, had they not rushed its deadline and only to bank on the success of the franchise. 

Modifié par ziloe, 05 avril 2011 - 08:26 .

[jaybee93]

Ahh. So we're allowed to like the game as long as we accept that we have low standards and we're contributing to the mediocrity of future games. I'm glad I cleared that up. Thanks.

[ziloe]

jaybee93 wrote...

Ahh. So we're allowed to like the game as long as we accept that we have low standards and we're contributing to the mediocrity of future games. I'm glad I cleared that up. Thanks.

Quite so. See? Discussing things intellectually is so much better than Gravol.

Modifié par ziloe, 05 avril 2011 - 08:49 .

[Lord_Valandil]

I'm always amused to see the reactions of the fanboys.
"Look sir, trolls, trolls everywhere, if you don't like it then get out of here!".

[ziloe]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

I'm always amused to see the reactions of the fanboys.
"Look sir, trolls, trolls everywhere, if you don't like it then get out of here!".

It's clear that this place considers having an opinion, trolling.

Oh, and you can't forget having a full time job and not being able to respond all the time, so if your thread dies and you bring it back, you're resurrecting old threads, lol. 

[Maverick827]

ziloe wrote...

It's clear that this place considers having an opinion, trolling.

Having an opinion is fine.  Forcing said opinion on others as fact is not fine.  That is, by definition, a form of trolling.

This:

 Because you didn't have any real standards

...is juvenile and a terrible start to what you claim to have intended to be a mature discussion.

[ziloe]

Maverick827 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

It's clear that this place considers having an opinion, trolling.

Having an opinion is fine.  Forcing said opinion on others as fact is not fine.  That is, by definition, a form of trolling.

This:

 Because you didn't have any real standards

...is juvenile and a terrible start to what you claim to have intended to be a mature discussion.

Yes, because telling people they should have better standards is totally forcing them to do something. If they want a quality game, they and even I admittedly, have no one to blame but ourselves for supporting a company that does so. However, it is still seriously unfortunate that a company many hold in such high regard would fall prey to EA's rushed standards of game design.

[Maverick827]

ziloe wrote...

Yes, because telling people they should have better standards is totally forcing them to do something. If they want a quality game, they and even I admittedly, have no one to blame but ourselves for supporting a company that does so. However, it is still seriously unfortunate that a company many hold in such high regard would fall prey to EA's rushed standards of game design.

Yes, it is, actually, You believe that your opinion that the game is not good is fact and low standards are thus a prerequisite of thinking otherwise.

You say that we have low standards because we "accept things how they are," yet when a developer tries to innovate (e.g. breaking free from the "how it is" situation) you immediately label it as poor quality.

[ziloe]

Maverick827 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Yes, because telling people they should have better standards is totally forcing them to do something. If they want a quality game, they and even I admittedly, have no one to blame but ourselves for supporting a company that does so. However, it is still seriously unfortunate that a company many hold in such high regard would fall prey to EA's rushed standards of game design.

Yes, it is, actually, You believe that your opinion that the game is not good is fact and low standards are thus a prerequisite of thinking otherwise.

You say that we have low standards because we "accept things how they are," yet when a developer tries to innovate (e.g. breaking free from the "how it is" situation) you immediately label it as poor quality.

Ooh, looking at your last bit; who's generalizing now, eh? It wasn't innovative. It was redundant, repetitive and even linear. If you don't see that, clearly you haven't played through the game more than once. I don't even know why I have to repeat myself. It's been clearly stated in interviews that EA wanted the game out quickly. It was an entirely rushed project. And why did EA think they could get away with this? Because of people who continuously buy their games, despite being continuously disappointed. And the developers continue to spout what they want in the game, or are going to do and then don't follow through. 

[Aldandil]

ziloe wrote...

Ooh, looking at your last bit; who's generalizing now, eh? It wasn't innovative. It was redundant, repetitive and even linear. If you don't see that, clearly you haven't played through the game more than once. I don't even know why I have to repeat myself. It's been clearly stated in interviews that EA wanted the game out quickly. It was an entirely rushed project. And why did EA think they could get away with this? Because of people who continuously buy their games, despite being continuously disappointed. And the developers continue to spout what they want in the game, or are going to do and then don't follow through. 

I'm a consumer, just as you. We both paid somewhere around the same amount of money for this game. I'm happy with the product that I bought. Knowing what I know about the game, I would still have bought it first day. There are things about the game I thought could have been better. Re-using the same areas is something I think is making the quality of the game lower, but I suppose it might be more important for some people, and less important for some. Same thing goes for bugs. The rest of it I think is fine. Some of it is even great. In any case, it's well worth my money.

I suppose you can calll for boycotts of BioWare games if you like, since it's increasing the chance that people who share your opinions of the game will stop buying new ones. However, I hope you've learned your lesson now, and stay out of buying ME3 and TOR, because I wouldn't want anyone to spend money on things they don't want to have. I question the idea of bashing entirely subjective opinions of the story, though. Anyone claiming that DA2's story is inherently superior to DA:O's, is of course just as wrong as someone claiming the opposite. The same thing goes for companions. I enjoyed DA:O more than DA2, but I think that DA2's story was better. My priorities when it comes to stories are clearly different than yours. If you want to bring up an objective argument to include in a call for a boycott, ask that no one buy games with fewer words of dialogue than DA:O had, or something. That's objective.

Saying that those of us who liked DA2 are ruining video gaming is pointless, as is trying to prove our opinions wrong. I don't mind your disagreeing, but attacking our "standards" for video games is pointless, considering that it's an attack on how those who liked the game value our time and our money, and that is something that is entirely up to us.

[ziloe]

Aldandil wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Ooh, looking at your last bit; who's generalizing now, eh? It wasn't innovative. It was redundant, repetitive and even linear. If you don't see that, clearly you haven't played through the game more than once. I don't even know why I have to repeat myself. It's been clearly stated in interviews that EA wanted the game out quickly. It was an entirely rushed project. And why did EA think they could get away with this? Because of people who continuously buy their games, despite being continuously disappointed. And the developers continue to spout what they want in the game, or are going to do and then don't follow through. 

I'm a consumer, just as you. We both paid somewhere around the same amount of money for this game. I'm happy with the product that I bought. Knowing what I know about the game, I would still have bought it first day. There are things about the game I thought could have been better. Re-using the same areas is something I think is making the quality of the game lower, but I suppose it might be more important for some people, and less important for some. Same thing goes for bugs. The rest of it I think is fine. Some of it is even great. In any case, it's well worth my money.

I suppose you can calll for boycotts of BioWare games if you like, since it's increasing the chance that people who share your opinions of the game will stop buying new ones. However, I hope you've learned your lesson now, and stay out of buying ME3 and TOR, because I wouldn't want anyone to spend money on things they don't want to have. I question the idea of bashing entirely subjective opinions of the story, though. Anyone claiming that DA2's story is inherently superior to DA:O's, is of course just as wrong as someone claiming the opposite. The same thing goes for companions. I enjoyed DA:O more than DA2, but I think that DA2's story was better. My priorities when it comes to stories are clearly different than yours. If you want to bring up an objective argument to include in a call for a boycott, ask that no one buy games with fewer words of dialogue than DA:O had, or something. That's objective.

Saying that those of us who liked DA2 are ruining video gaming is pointless, as is trying to prove our opinions wrong. I don't mind your disagreeing, but attacking our "standards" for video games is pointless, considering that it's an attack on how those who liked the game value our time and our money, and that is something that is entirely up to us.

I have brought up the same "worthy" point, countless times, only for them to be disregarded. I don't disagree that it had some good elements, however, the story was entirely linear. Even not aiding Anders at the end still had the same effect, making it painstakingly clear that no matter what you did in the game, it was pointless because it all had the same outcome. Even the ending was hardly different, albeit a few changes in dialogue. In comparison to the first game, it was nothing but a giant disappointment, especially thanks to their boastful marketing campaign of all the new features they would have, such as the frame narrative that happened all of maybe FIVE times.

[CloudOfShadows]

FrozenDawn wrote...

One question to all those guys defending the game here: Did you actually play DA:O?
Did you NOTICE the differences? Lack of choices? no more multiple ways to solve quests?

And more importantly: Did you not ****ing SEE the bugs in DA2?? the skills not working, the plot holes, the shameless recycling of maps? I mean you basically stay in one city and three outdoor ares all the time?
Man u guys should go play some WOW - no wait WOW actually has betatesters and lots of different areals...

I did play Origins. And the only instance where I can recall that I was able to solve a quest multiple ways was in regards to the prisoner in Ostagar camp. All the other 'choices' I was seemed more like different results I wanted.

Actually, both is in DA2. Even the persuade options are there, except you no longer have to spend skill points, instead you make your character able to talk tough, or sarcastic, or nice. And actually, I do rather like the ability to have my companions step in sometimes to provide actual different ways to solve a quest - just last playthrough I found a new way to solve a familiar quest because of a different character that I brought along.

I have played through DA2 four times, and I have not been hampered in my enjoyment by bugs - while I did run into four or five, none of them were game breakers for me.


Edit:

ziloe wrote...

I have brought up the same "worthy" point, countless times, only for them to be disregarded. I don't disagree that it had some good elements, however, the story was entirely linear. Even not aiding Anders at the end still had the same effect, making it painstakingly clear that no matter what you did in the game, it was pointless because it all had the same outcome. Even the ending was hardly different, albeit a few changes in dialogue. In comparison to the first game, it was nothing but a giant disappointment, especially thanks to their boastful marketing campaign of all the new features they would have, such as the frame narrative that happened all of maybe FIVE times. 

Well, my personal fear - and complete disinterest in DA2 was originally that I feared they'd make a simple repetition of Origins. While I did like Origins, I was glad that the story ended and felt complete. My interest in DA2 was only so that I did get the demo when it became available, and then I was hooked.

And in regards to linearity - well. This is a Bioware game. The last Bioware game I can recall that wasn't linear was Baldur's Gate. Mind you, Baldur's Gate - not Baldurs Gate 2.

Modifié par CloudOfShadows, 06 avril 2011 - 07:53 .

[Aldandil]

ziloe wrote...

I have brought up the same "worthy" point, countless times, only for them to be disregarded. I don't disagree that it had some good elements, however, the story was entirely linear. Even not aiding Anders at the end still had the same effect, making it painstakingly clear that no matter what you did in the game, it was pointless because it all had the same outcome. Even the ending was hardly different, albeit a few changes in dialogue. In comparison to the first game, it was nothing but a giant disappointment, especially thanks to their boastful marketing campaign of all the new features they would have, such as the frame narrative that happened all of maybe FIVE times.

I'm not sure what valid points you have brought up, but I don't think saying that people who disagree with them are ruining gaming is fair. I'll play games I like, and I'll let you do the same. Considering that DA2 is as linear as ME2, I would advise you not to buy the next Bioware game until you know it has enough features that you like. It will save yourself time and money.