160 réponses à ce sujet

[Aburai]

 Does a spoken character that you created ruin the illusion that you're that character? What if you don't even know all of what they can say? This is my argument against BioWare's using the dialouge wheel and spoken character.

 When I was but a wee lad, a whole 3 weeks ago, I remember playing Origins. I remember being the character. There was not a moment where I didn't feel as though I were the one talking, fighting, and gathering. I would read through all of the dialouge options and pick the one that best suited both my character, Aburai, and myself. The NPCs would, of course, not refer to me by name. They would refer to me by the title of  "The Warden." Using the title instead of a name also helped the feeling of immersion, which is incredibly vital in a role playing game such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

 I then played Dragon Age II, to continue my heroics in Thedas. My character now had not a title, but a name people called him. This ruined some of the immersion, but not too much. My character also spoke now, which made it feel like I was merely controlling the characters actions and was not actually them. The dialouge wheel also helped destroy the immersion. You only got the gist of what your character was going to say, not the entire thing. In a role playing game such as this, it's important to know exactly what your character is going to say.

What do you guys n' gals think? Any opinion as welcome.

[Everwarden]

Aburai wrote...

 Does a spoken character that you created ruin the illusion that you're that character? What if you don't even know all of what they can say? This is my argument against BioWare's using the dialouge wheel and spoken character.

 When I was but a wee lad, a whole 3 weeks ago, I remember playing Origins. I remember being the character. There was not a moment where I didn't feel as though I were the one talking, fighting, and gathering. I would read through all of the dialouge options and pick the one that best suited both my character, Aburai, and myself. The NPCs would, of course, not refer to me by name. They would refer to me by the title of  "The Warden." Using the title instead of a name also helped the feeling of immersion, which is incredibly vital in a role playing game such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

 I then played Dragon Age II, to continue my heroics in Thedas. My character now had not a title, but a name people called him. This ruined some of the immersion, but not too much. My character also spoke now, which made it feel like I was merely controlling the characters actions and was not actually them. The dialouge wheel also helped destroy the immersion. You only got the gist of what your character was going to say, not the entire thing. In a role playing game such as this, it's important to know exactly what your character is going to say.

What do you guys n' gals think? Any opinion as welcome.

I think you're right. I want the style of Origins back. Or I would if I intended to buy DA3. The voice actor who did Hawke was fine, but I don't want my character's voice to be pre-set, and I don't want my character to say things I didn't intend.

Modifié par Everwarden, 24 mars 2011 - 07:23 .

[hexaligned]

Pfft, I remember having to actually type out my dialogue in games like Wizardry and Might and Magic. It didn't do anything to help my immersion. The only way VO distracts from my enjoyment of a game is if I just find the VA to be annoying/untalented. Mark Meer is a good example of this, I can't play as a male Shep for more than 2 or 3 mins at a time. I thought the VA's in DA2 were fine, the writing behind them is another story though. In general I'm against it, just because I'd rather the game resources get used on other things, but from an immersion standpoint it doesn't bother me.

[Anariel Theirin]

I actually agree with you, but I can see where a lot of people argue the opposite. I know it bothered a lot of people to have a mute character during cutscenes. I would rather have my character mute than to hear lines delivered in a way that don't resonate with me. However, certain things about the dialogue wheel were awesome. I liked that the game kept track of what type of dialogue you used the most, and that could change what your character said during a cutscene where you don't choose the dialogue outright.

[AlanC9]

I think the thread title needs an "if."

[AkiKishi]

Yes. Paraphrasing just makes that worse.

[bill4747bill]

Being mute in DAO damaged immerssion for me. It just looks and sounds wrong to me when everyone talks except the warden.

So I prefer a voiced protagonist.

[Hatchetman77]

I preferred the no voice, just because I usually have my own character concept for the person I created.  However the inclusion of the family was more damaging to that than anything else, especially since they followed you around for good chunks of the game.  Hawke kind of felt like when a Pen and Pencil RPG gives you pregenerated characters so you can just start playing right away.  They're ok, but I still love the character I created myself more. 

[Kidd]

I much prefer having a name. It's kind of awkward how nobody can ever say your name, but must always find a way around it. Why was I "Gorion's ward" in BG, when Gorion was of fleeting importance at best at the scales the series ended up riding with? And in DAO, am I just a Warden? Am I not a person?

I don't care what my character is called, a name isn't that important. But being able to be called by name, is. It's somewhat awkward as it is to be called Shepard by loved ones in Mass Effect, give me a fixed first name please. The first name is never referenced in-game anyway so what does it matter?

And as soon as characters move in any way more interesting than simply standing in front of each other exchanging lines, having a mute and pretty much dead character is just... horrible =S

[shumworld]

I decided to start with a character who is not me in the DA2 because I don't have an English accent. Which is why I played as default Lady Hawke. Her being crazy sexy was also another reason.

One of these day I intend to play DA2 with a character who I see as "me". Though it's gonna be tough since I don't see myself speaking in an English accent.

Shepard is a different scenario, his voice is generic enough that I accept him being the voice to represent "me" in ME; I've always wanted to say that. xp

Modifié par shumworld, 24 mars 2011 - 08:26 .

[MonkeyLungs]

I need to preface this post by saying that I think Bioware games have, in general, great voice acting. The voice actors are awesome they do a fantastic job approaching their roles with sincerity and to hear that in a video game is cool. Mark Meer is awesome as Shepard and I honestly don't have a preference between him or Hale (I think they are both awesome) -just had to throw that in-.

Howevver, it has been my assertion since ever since that voice acting detracts from games and my experience with the way games have changed over the years. This is just my opinion and I know I'm completely outnumbered. When you add voice acting you limit much of what can be done in terms of complexity of story and in the gameplay.

I think as far as it should have ever went was to have key elements voiced (Irenicus in BGII) and have the rest as text. Reading for me is just as fun, if not more so given the advantages text provides, as listening to an actor.

[Bostur]

I usually don't play myself. I usually play some hero in a far away land doing something I would never dream of.

I found voiced protagonists very natural in ME1 and ME2, and it was odd at first in DAO. After a while i got used to it and realized it added a bit of room for personal interpretation. But it wasn't an interpretation of me, it was an interpretation of the youngest Cousland son. He could have been voiced without changing much.

I think the biggest problem with how it was done in DAO was not the lack of voice, but the fact that we saw him during dialogues wondering why he wasn't speaking, he seemed mute. Most games simply don't show the player character's face and then I don't even notice the lack of voice.

Modifié par Bostur, 24 mars 2011 - 08:30 .

[Dark83]

I remember back in the good old days, I just needed to say "job" or "rune" to hold a conversation. Good times.

[Kidd]

shumworld wrote...

One of these day I intend to play DA2 with a character who I see as "me". Though it's gonna be tough since I don't see myself speaking in an English accent.

Interesting issue. I mean, I don't even speak English in my ordinary, day-to-day life since I don't live in an English-speaking country. But even so, the Hawke you see on my avatar is my "me" Hawke. Perhaps it's more difficult for you if you speak English to begin with?

Then again, when I do speak English, I do go for some standard Queen Elizabeth kind of English, which I suppose fits LadyHawke just fine =)

....every time I write LadyHawke I almost write LadyGagaHawke. Weird compulsions... I need to make a LadyGagaHawke.

[Alex Kershaw]

I much prefer the silent companion. It was actually natural to hear what a character wanted to say, then select from a list of options and then imemdiately hear the character respond. Hearing 'myself' repeat what I've just read seems a bit pointless, not to mention immersion-breaking when they say it completely wrong. For example, Isabela says 'you're not thinking of bringing feelings into this, are you?' In order to not completely break it off, I select 'why not?' and Hawke says cheesily - 'WHAT ABOUT LOVE?!?!' True story.

Also, you are given less choice with a voiced character because of the restrictions on voice acting. This means that the game is dumbed down further which is never a good thing.

[Bathead]

I prefer the voiced character. I'm now replaying Origins, and I'm now remembering how jarring it was to have everyone else having a voice, but when your Warden is supposed to be speaking, he's just standing there mute with a blank look on his face. Don't get me wrong, I didn't really have a problem with that at all, I just prefer it this way, and I like the dialog wheel. It's different, and I find it fun.

Modifié par Bathead, 24 mars 2011 - 09:13 .

[xCelesx]

Voiced, I found it easier to connect with Hawke than the Warden. It was funny though, having a character tell the warden they loved her, just for her to look

[2papercuts]

xCelesx wrote...

Voiced, I found it easier to connect with Hawke than the Warden. It was funny though, having a character tell the warden they loved her, just for her to look

I think thats more of a problem with animation than not having a voice though...

Anyways, I think having a VO makes it more like playing as a customizable companion, and limiting responses to only basically 3 tones does not help the imersion. Overall, until they can make the protagonists voice customizable i prefer silent

[xCelesx]

2papercuts wrote...
Anyways, I think having a VO makes it more like playing as a customizable companion, and limiting responses to only basically 3 tones does not help the imersion. Overall, until they can make the protagonists voice customizable i prefer silent

I dunno, in general those three tones were the general gist of all the replies in origins. I think the wheel just presents it in a more obvious way. That and most of them lead to the same NPC response, so I don't see it as a huge loss.

Modifié par xCelesx, 24 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[2papercuts]

xCelesx wrote...

2papercuts wrote...
Anyways, I think having a VO makes it more like playing as a customizable companion, and limiting responses to only basically 3 tones does not help the imersion. Overall, until they can make the protagonists voice customizable i prefer silent

I dunno, in general those three tones were the general gist of all the replies in origins. I think the wheel just presents it in a more obvious way. That and most of them lead to the same NPC response, so I don't see it as a huge loss.

to me it didn't feel as linear or as bipolar in DAO, and i don't remember their being the good bad and sacastic choice all the time, But like you said the wheel probably doesn't help this.

[StowyMcStowstow]

The only problem with having a VA is that sometimes the dialogue is the complete opposite of what you meant, or what the option said. Another problem is the fact that you can't say exactly what you want to say.

But then again I'd rather have my character showing emotions rather than looking like a brick for an entire conversation.

[Noojers]

For me, i like the voiced protaganist better.... but i highly dislike the dialogue wheel.
The reasons i dislike the dialogue wheel are: One, i want to know exactly what i am going to say. Two (the more important one), i dont like there being a heart, or an olive branch etc telling me exactly how my response is going to be, I dont really now how to explain it. Also i dont like there only being thee options usually

The only problem is... you can have a voiced protaganist and have the fully written dialogue option... so oh well ):

[Kidd]

2papercuts wrote...

to me it didn't feel as linear or as bipolar in DAO, and i don't remember their being the good bad and sacastic choice all the time, But like you said the wheel probably doesn't help this.

I don't get this talk about bipolarness, is it perhaps only for MaleHawke? (never used one)

I was a mostly diplomatic LadyHawke but certainly threw in a good measure of sarcasm, and some direct and aggressive options as well when I found them fitting. But I never thought it sounded like my character wasn't the same person all throughout it all.

[Morroian]

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The only problem with having a VA is that sometimes the dialogue is the complete opposite of what you meant, or what the option said. Another problem is the fact that you can't say exactly what you want to say.

DAO had more problems along the line of the tone not being what you intended, and you can't say exactly what you want to say in Origins either.

[Bostur]

Morroian wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The only problem with having a VA is that sometimes the dialogue is the complete opposite of what you meant, or what the option said. Another problem is the fact that you can't say exactly what you want to say.

DAO had more problems along the line of the tone not being what you intended, and you can't say exactly what you want to say in Origins either.

lol true. DAO and DA2 is opposite for me in this respect. In DAO the character sometimes used an unexpected tone. In DA2 he sometimes says something completely different than what I thought he would.

I think I prefer to know the message, I can usually spot a sarcastic approach in the text.