160 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Phoebus]

I've never been a fan of voice acting in games, for several reasons:

• The zots spent on voice actors could be spent on gameplay or additional content.
• Because of the cost of voice acting, the writing has to be succinct to the point of being terse, and exposition that would have been included in a non-voiced game gets cut or shoved in a codex.
• Because I can read faster than I can listen. voice acting slows down gameplay. This isn't always a problem, but if you're in an area where there's a lot of talking or replaying, the ability to skip through the conversations quickly is always valuable.
• I like to multi-task while gaming, watch TV, listen to music etc. It's much easier to do this with subtitles vs. voice acting.

Obviously I prefer a non-voiced protagonist to voiced. Though I can understand that some people like it and my perspective is probably in the minority.

[PsychoBlonde]

It doesn't bother me in the least. I've never had the full illusion in video games that I "was" the PC. Just having to pick from a list of comments instead of being able to say whatever I want does this for me. I quite enjoy the voiced protagonist--I find it disconnecting when the PC is a bland mute when everyone else has such a nice voice.

I won't say that the voiced PC is universally better--it's not. However, I find it opens up all sorts of interesting options in writing and characterization that I'd like to see explored. There's plenty of room for both types of games and many more besides. Why artificially restrict yourself to saying that one way is the "right" way?

[Kidd]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

[*]I like to multi-task while gaming, watch TV, listen to music etc. It's much easier to do this with subtitles vs. voice acting.

I'm curious now. Like, I can't imagine myself doing any of those things while I'm playing an rpg. Perhaps if I'm playing a game that is 100% "game play" like some oldschool shooter or something, but in a game where I care about the story I could never do that. It would break the immersion for me completely. How do you handle that?

I'm also unable to understand how reading fast is a pro, but I know that's just me being weird =) When I read, I have this voice in my head that reads the text out loud for me, so when I try to read fast I'll be reading in a way my brain isn't used to, and then I barely remember anything of what I've read. But yeah, that's just my brain being screwy =)

[Caralampio]

I agree and for both the same reasons: It doesn't feel like "me", and the wheel with those paraphrases that usually have nothing to do with what is really said.

And some paraphrases are ridiculous because they are four or five words long, and the actual Hawke response is just one or two words. They could just have written it down verbatim in that case.

And this wheel is so small, and you can only click on the text. The ME at least was larger, and you could click on the text, spoke, or hub.

[Kidd]

Caralampio wrote...

And this wheel is so small, and you can only click on the text. The ME at least was larger, and you could click on the text, spoke, or hub.

Well you can use numbers too =)

6      1
5  O 2
4      3

In case you didn't know ^^

[ThomasBlaine]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I much prefer having a name. It's kind of awkward how nobody can ever say your name, but must always find a way around it. Why was I "Gorion's ward" in BG, when Gorion was of fleeting importance at best at the scales the series ended up riding with? And in DAO, am I just a Warden? Am I not a person?

I don't care what my character is called, a name isn't that important. But being able to be called by name, is. It's somewhat awkward as it is to be called Shepard by loved ones in Mass Effect, give me a fixed first name please. The first name is never referenced in-game anyway so what does it matter?

And as soon as characters move in any way more interesting than simply standing in front of each other exchanging lines, having a mute and pretty much dead character is just... horrible =S

That's actually justified. In many, if not most human cultures, it's incredibly rude to use an individual's given name without explicit invitation and this almost always carries heavily into Sci-Fi.
How people in any kind of low-tech age adresses you is also completely dependant on how you are being advertised. In Origins, you are addressed exclusively by strangers and officials as "Warden" because the single universal stereotype of the Wardens is *Strong dude killing darkspawn*, which, incidentally, your entire political relevance amounts to. You also give up any personal right and status -and by extension, identity- upon joining.
Otherwise, just how often do you use the other person's name in casual one-on-one conversation?

Modifié par ThomasBlaine, 24 mars 2011 - 10:41 .

[Kimaka]

I really dislike voiced main characters and prefer the voiceless protagonist. During or before I play a game I try to map out my character's personality and roleplay as closely as possible to that within the setting. A voiceless main character allows me to set my character with a specific pitch and tone that fits their personality and looks which is something I can't do with a voiced one.

Ideally, I would like Bioware to go back to the Dialogue Trees and use a voiceless main character but seeing that it's unlikely they will be returning to that form I would at least like to be able to see the full responses. The paraphrases that they chose to display on the Wheel in DA2 are poorly done and I found myself reloading much more often than I did with ME and ME2 despite it having expressions. I don't see why they haven't implemented a toggle system to display the full text by now since the disconnect between what is shown and what is said has been a complaint by many fans since ME was released.

[Kidd]

ThomasBlaine wrote...

That's actually justified. In many, if not most human cultures, it's incredibly rude to use an individual's given name without explicit invitation and this almost always carries heavily into Sci-Fi.
How people in any kind of low-tech age adresses you is also completely dependant on how you are being advertised. In Origins, you are addressed exclusively by strangers and officials as "Warden" because the single universal stereotype of the Wardens is *Strong dude killing darkspawn*, which, incidentally, your entire political relevance amounts to. You also give up any personal right and status -and by extension, identity- upon joining.
Otherwise, just how often do you use the other person's name in casual one-on-one conversation?

I have of course only grown up in Sweden, but I'd never call a policeman by her title for instance. If I were to have to mention her by name, so to speak, I'd ask her for her name. Saying "the policeman here" sounds downright weird and somewhat rude to me. It's objectifying.

As for using names in conversations, well it certainly happens. I'm terrible with names, never remember 'em and asking people what their names were after you've spent two days with them is incredibly awkward, so I know very well how often I have to choose my wording carefully not to use their name =) Of course, Swedish isn't English either, but seeing how many times Shepard is referenced as Shepard by her team mates in ME, it shouldn't sound alien how a name can pop up in convo very naturally.

[Demonhoopa]

Aburai wrote...

 Does a spoken character that you created ruin the illusion that you're that character? What if you don't even know all of what they can say? This is my argument against BioWare's using the dialouge wheel and spoken character.

 When I was but a wee lad, a whole 3 weeks ago, I remember playing Origins. I remember being the character. There was not a moment where I didn't feel as though I were the one talking, fighting, and gathering. I would read through all of the dialouge options and pick the one that best suited both my character, Aburai, and myself. The NPCs would, of course, not refer to me by name. They would refer to me by the title of  "The Warden." Using the title instead of a name also helped the feeling of immersion, which is incredibly vital in a role playing game such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

 I then played Dragon Age II, to continue my heroics in Thedas. My character now had not a title, but a name people called him. This ruined some of the immersion, but not too much. My character also spoke now, which made it feel like I was merely controlling the characters actions and was not actually them. The dialouge wheel also helped destroy the immersion. You only got the gist of what your character was going to say, not the entire thing. In a role playing game such as this, it's important to know exactly what your character is going to say.

What do you guys n' gals think? Any opinion as welcome.

 
Hmmm. Maybe. I don't ever play as "me" so I haven't thought about it. Too limiting for RP. I look at it more like a movie or novel that I have a say so in and developing the character. This allows me to play either gender without problem because it's not "me".

I'm surised to find that I am liking the voiced character MORE (I'm a fallout fan so I thought I'd hate it), as long as I liked the voice actor. Love both actors from DA2 so it's all good.

relhart wrote...

Pfft, I remember having to actually type out my dialogue in games like Wizardry and Might and Magic. It didn't do anything to help my immersion. The only way VO distracts from my enjoyment of a game is if I just find the VA to be annoying/untalented. Mark Meer is a good example of this, I can't play as a male Shep for more than 2 or 3 mins at a time. I thought the VA's in DA2 were fine, the writing behind them is another story though. In general I'm against it, just because I'd rather the game resources get used on other things, but from an immersion standpoint it doesn't bother me.

This. A thousand times.

Modifié par Demonhoopa, 24 mars 2011 - 10:58 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Those who would rather read all the dialogues and have no voice acting and would rather devs spend time and money on other stuff = 2 (so far) vs. the world.

I guess we lose Lord Phoebus ...

[NvVanity]

I don't mind a voiced protagonist or an un-voiced one.

Really i'm just not a big fan on paraphrasing. It's one thing to think I know what Hawke will say but he sort of adds onto it, first half is what intended, second half not so much. The intent icons certainly helped out though.

[UltimoCrofto]

I felt a huge disconnect with Hawke compared to my previous character in Origins. In Origins my dude was exactly as I imagined him, and for people into the whole "RP" thing, the game was pretty good for that, however, I do see why having a voiced character is better for game design. The downside is that no matter what you do, unless your character looks like the pre-set character the developers give you, your character's appearance and voice won't be compatible at all (especially if you make some other ethnic character).

Essentially, I get to play around with the character BioWare *want* me to play, so there's actually very little of my own imagination in there; and for any of my own stuff there, it gets rejected by atmosphere-killing inconsistency between what my character should be, and what he/she actually is.

It's the same with Mass Effect - In the end I just used the stock Shepard avatar, since none other suits that voice or intended personality properly. It's annoying, but you just gotta deal with it I guess. It's kinda worse in DA2 since default male Hawke doesn't look like a spellcaster at all, especially a healer (which I tried, but gave up on because he looked so wrong).

[nijnij]

I've said this elsewhere but I almost think male Hawke's voice had too much personality for a PC. He just sounded very grandiloquent (especially with the derpy GerardButleresque battle screams), too self-assured and bigger-than-life. I found the cute flirty lines cocky and creepy coming from him ("you're so sweet Merrill" has to be the worst), diplomatic lines sounded a little pedantic (I'm gonna help you, peasant !), some of the sarcastic lines just come off really smartass and pretentious IMO, agressive lines didn't sound so angry, rather Hawke showing off his masculine side... Maybe it's just me but I would have preferred more emotion and less attitude, it would have been easier for everyone to relate I think.

Note that I didn't think it was bad acting (I loved this VA as Vaughan), I just think it was too charactery for a player character, to me it was someone playing the awesome champion of Kirkwall, not someone playing a simple guy who happens to be the champion.

I guess it didn't prevent me from playing the game though but I can think of a few occurences where it break suspension of disbelief for me (while I loved the voice-acting in general).

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

If I'm not trying to identify directly with the main character, a voice responses can help bring him to life, with competent voice acting. If I'm trying to "be" the character, I'd rather have a list of clever and appropriate text responses.

[Tirigon]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

I've never been a fan of voice acting in games, for several reasons:

• The zots spent on voice actors could be spent on gameplay or additional content.
• Because of the cost of voice acting, the writing has to be succinct to the point of being terse, and exposition that would have been included in a non-voiced game gets cut or shoved in a codex.
• Because I can read faster than I can listen. voice acting slows down gameplay. This isn't always a problem, but if you're in an area where there's a lot of talking or replaying, the ability to skip through the conversations quickly is always valuable.
• I like to multi-task while gaming, watch TV, listen to music etc. It's much easier to do this with subtitles vs. voice acting.

Obviously I prefer a non-voiced protagonist to voiced. Though I can understand that some people like it and my perspective is probably in the minority.

[*]At least I am with you.
[*]QFT........

[Greed1914]

I always prefer voiced. Just clicking an option doesn't mean as much to me as the delivery of the line, and don't even get me started on "putting the player in the game" by not having them respond at all.

I also prefer what Bioware does with the wheel since I don't want to read something, and then have it spoken exactly as is. It gets redundant and dull.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Bostur wrote...

I usually don't play myself. I usually play some hero in a far away land doing something I would never dream of.

I found voiced protagonists very natural in ME1 and ME2, and it was odd at first in DAO. After a while i got used to it and realized it added a bit of room for personal interpretation. But it wasn't an interpretation of me, it was an interpretation of the youngest Cousland son. He could have been voiced without changing much.

I think the biggest problem with how it was done in DAO was not the lack of voice, but the fact that we saw him during dialogues wondering why he wasn't speaking, he seemed mute. Most games simply don't show the player character's face and then I don't even notice the lack of voice.

That's why we have different preferences. It's a matter of how we perceive and role-play the character. Some people like to play as themselves ( me for example ) because they don't like to be forced to become someone else ( I can't stand all fixed main characters. If the game doesn't have character creation or even, has slightest impression that he has his own personality, I automatically reject that character thus the world. All the RPG I've completed must allow me to become the hero and not Skywalker or Shepard or Hawke or Ezio ). Normally this type of people wants a lot of customization and at same time flexibility to shape the character's personality. 

I'm not saying other people who want to play the hero as someone else, is wrong. We're both within context of role-playing. I can play Abigail Hawke or Marlene Hawke or even default Marian Hawke at the cost of my emotional bonding. It isn't mandatory to become oneself to role-play a game. I completely understand that.

There's must be some way where we could have the best option for our preferences. Voice actor does interrupt on how I choose to shape my character personality. I'm willing to tolerate that. I have tried to be comfortable with Paraphrase words in Mass Effect 2 and now Dragon Age 2. But I can't. I don't know exact intent of the dialogue. The camera show the character face when he talks totally kill me to play as myself. This is one area I can't tolerate. And this one of the biggest problem with both ME 2 and DA 2 for me.

I see too many third person "modern RPG" are imposing their character to be the hero except for Bethesda's TES and Fallout who continue to use first person view. Heck, Even FPS can make me feel I'm the hero with the feel of inside the world and react to bullets and staggering pain.  It's sad things most "modern RPG" can't understand the important of it.

If this matter continues, I have to find other fantasy RPG that can make the hero out of me.

[F-C]

voiced conversation has its merits.

the main one being it makes conversations seem less one sided, where you are just listening to one person do all the talking. instead it makes it seem more like you are watching a movie.

i never really feel like i become my character or whatever it is some posters are talking about, so i dont really understand that arguement. to me im playing a character, if its voiced or not, and it being voiced makes the game more entertaining in most cases honestly.

[Faust1979]

No it doesn't but I never pretend that the character is me i more feel like I'm watching a characters story. 

[silentassassin264]

I liked the tone indicator and set up in DA2. There was no disconnect. It was awkward sometimes like when you meet Merrill the first time and do the aggressive option basically telling her to get moving and then if you ask her about Flemeth in the next set you are back to the nice inquisitive tone. You still get that sort of mood whiplash with voices but I don't mind that compared to trying to compliment people in Origins and them completely taking it the wrong way forcing you to save scum to get through conversations.

[Maria Caliban]

Aburai wrote...

 Does a spoken character that you created ruin the illusion that you're that character?

I have never played an RPG and thought 'that character is me.' To me, part of the appeal of role-playing is that it's not me.

That said, I feel as connected to voiced protagonists as I do to silent ones.

What if you don't even know all of what they can say?

It doesn't matter to me.

[Zjarcal]

Maria Caliban wrote...
To me, part of the appeal of role-playing is that it's not me. 

Same here.

I have NEVER imagined that I am the character in any RPG. I create a character and I play it according to the personality I give to the character, but I never think that I am the character (even if I'm basing the character on my own personality).

So no, the voice doesn't create any sort of disconnect for me, if anything it makes me feel even more connected to the character.

Ok, I still feel just as connected to my silent warden, but that's because I love the character I created. But the voice does help me enjoy a character even more.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 mars 2011 - 03:42 .

[Remmirath]

I never have the feeling that I am my character. I always try to play characters who are quite different from myself, and I don't find it to be interesting to play a character who is too similar to me.

That said, having voice-acting for the character does hurt the feeling that it's my character. Voice and tone are, after all, fairly important aspects of someone's personality, and if you can't determine those it's harder to think of a character as yours.

The paraphrasing is also a fairly large problem, since there are so many different ways to say something that has the same general idea. It's hard to pick what your character would say when you don't know what they will say.

Now, I will say that when those things align and the voice sounds right for my character and what they say ends up being something I think they should say (and in basically the manner I think they should say it in) I like the voice acting. I think that, eventually, once it has options and some degree of customisation, it'll be a good thing. It isn't at that point yet, though, and I'd rather have no voice and rely on my imagination than a very slim chance that the voice will fit - much like I would rather have had the old sprite-and-portrait method rather than selecting from six different head choices when that was the norm, or even than a fairly limited character creation tool.

Morroian wrote...

StowyMcStowstow wrote...

The only problem with having a VA is that sometimes the dialogue is the complete opposite of what you meant, or what the option said. Another problem is the fact that you can't say exactly what you want to say.

DAO had more problems along the line of the tone not being what you intended, and you can't say exactly what you want to say in Origins either.

There is no tone for lines that your character says in Origins, because they aren't voice-acted. You can imagine the tone - and the NPC you're speaking to could misinterpret it. Or you can decide that the tone was actually different if you like, but I think it makes more sense assume the NPC misinterpreted your character. That happens all the time, after all.

I think it'll be a long time before you can say exactly what you want to say in an RPG, since that would be some rather tricky  programming to account for it all... but at least for some people, it's easier to imagine your character actually said something subtly different if it isn't voice-acted.

[podmark]

 I'm actually the opposite of the OP. I find I connect to the story much more in DA2 and Mass Effect than in DA:O. However, I'm not trying to be me in the game's story, I'm trying to connect to the story itself - that's my favorite part of BioWare games - so it's easier when essentially I'm an actor playing Sheppard or Hawke rather than an actor playing any character as the Warden.

The spoken/specific character definitely locks your options for role playing, but that's actually part of the appeal for me. When you're locked to a specific character then the world can relate directly to that character which often results in less generic reactions. So you can have NPC's talking all about your character's history for example instead of being vague or avoided it. 

Anyway this is all degrees, I enjoy both ways of playing games and DA:O did a really good job of using the origins to make the Warden non-generic in the game world.