160 réponses à ce sujet

[Bourne Endeavor]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Am I the only one who don't really see the difference in how much the character is "mine" if my character is called Hawke or not? I mean, I was playing "the Warden" in DAO, I don't see how that's any more or less my character just because I can't be a dwarf. I mean, it's not like I could be a Desire Spirit or even someone from Tevinter in DAO either.

I... had not perceived it an issue and am mildly perplexed anyone would find it is. I always rationalized it as a friendly nickname (yes, I am aware it is a surname) or reference to history where it was commonplace for people to be addressed by their last name. At the end I am willing to compromise with BioWare, knowing there is no alternative where we can be called by our given name, short of them providing a list a mile's length, which is simply unreasonable.

[lobi]

I prefered silent as in Origins. I didn't hear warden with my ears I heard with my mind, which made me listen to companions with my ears and think about what was being said.
When we speak to others are we listening to what we are saying or thinking about what we are saying or about to.
Hearing Hawk the strangers voice speaking for me made me think of diplomats in a strange land at the mercy of their interpretors skill and understanding of both languages.
To me the conversation wheel is as unsatisfying as clicking attack next all game.
I hate the icons almost as much as paragon renegade its just wanna be nice so this colour wanna be romantic so this icon, who actually thinks what is said is what their char would have said had it been origins.
But worse thing is knowing that (A) icon will pretty much mean ( type of response from NPC so no surprises, too much control = lack of immersion.

[Tirigon]

Joy Divison wrote...

In a world where everyone speaks, emotes, and has a name, if I don't then that is REALLY conspicuous and IMHO out of place and dumb.

Then I´d rather have noone have a voice, like it was in Morrowind.


Edit: That would have the additional advantage of NPCs actually being able to adress you with your chosen first name, instead of ignoring it like in DA2 or the sh!t it was in DAO:

"What´s your name?"
"I´m Lily".
"Ah these elven names are sooo hard to pronounce, I shall call you "The WARDEN"!!!!!!! Is this ok?"
:blink:"No it´s not."
"Ok, Grey Warden, so....."

Modifié par Tirigon, 25 mars 2011 - 11:37 .

[bill4747bill]

TJSolo wrote...

DarthBakura wrote...

bill4747bill wrote...

Being mute in DAO damaged immerssion for me. It just looks and sounds wrong to me when everyone talks except the warden.

So I prefer a voiced protagonist.

I have to agree with this.

The point of you "role-playing" a character is to make choices suited to your personality or to a type of personality you want to exude. The mute factor works for JRPGs, but in a game like Dragon Age, it hinders some of the immersion. The voice-overs for Hawke in DA:2 are not about giving him/her a voice so much as it is about giving you, the player, a voice. What you decide to say is where the role-playing comes into effect.

I love my female Hawke and her sexy voice.

I am not sure what was the last jRPG you are using as reference but current jRPGs use voices for canon characters.

Deciding what to say means you know what you can say. Paraphrasing is not knowing anything other than possible tone, not a real good way to RP a character.

The roleplay in a game like Dragon age is not about choosing exact words to say. That is not really possible in a computer game at this time. Every rpg I have played gives you very limited sentences to say that will never match what you would have said in a pen and paper rpg. So within those limitations that every computer rpg shares, a voiced protagonist seems the least immerssion breaking to me.

No offense to the deaf, as they might be an example of a silent protagonist that is not immerssion breaking

[CLime]

A lot of the criticism against a voiced PC works under the assumption that players actually want to play as themselves. No doubt this is true for a group of some size, but there are others of us who prefer our main characters to be entirely different identities.

My first run of Origins, I played a human mage, and generally tried to resolve choices the way I thought I myself would react. I finished the game, and it was fun and all, but when I started Awakening I realized I had no desire to keep playing the same PC. I ended up playing through Origins again with a city elf, trying to create for the warden a personality that wasn't necessarily the same as my own. That experience was much more enjoyable, such that I abandoned my mage entirely and took the elf through Awakening and all the other DLC.

With Hawke, I tried to do the same thing- create a unique character, not just copypaste my own personality into the game. Once I abandoned the notion that Hawke had to be ME, I was not at all bothered by the voicing. In fact, on subsequent playthroughs, the voice acting greatly improves the contrast between the diplomatic/snarky/hardass options. I wouldn't go back to the Origins system of dialogue for DA2 even if I had the choice.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

CLime wrote...
With Hawke, I tried to do the same thing- create a unique character, not just copypaste my own personality into the game. Once I abandoned the notion that Hawke had to be ME, I was not at all bothered by the voicing. In fact, on subsequent playthroughs, the voice acting greatly improves the contrast between the diplomatic/snarky/hardass options. I wouldn't go back to the Origins system of dialogue for DA2 even if I had the choice.

I'm glad it works for you. I did that too with my Abigail and Marlene Hawke. Both are females since it's much easier for me to accept the notion the characters are not me. I could complete and replay the game but it had other serious consequences. Although I enjoy PC voice acting, expression and how other NPCs reacts to them, I don't the have love for them as much as I do with the character that has my image like the Warden.  I cannot immerse with their personal story. The story is good but DA 2 without feeling personal, the characters, the family and the story fail flat.  It's like watching movie and when it's over, that's it. Nothing to ponder and look forward. The enthusiasm isn't there. The feeling of role-playing isn't there. It's just about playing the game. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 25 mars 2011 - 01:33 .

[Faust1979]

CLime wrote...

A lot of the criticism against a voiced PC works under the assumption that players actually want to play as themselves. No doubt this is true for a group of some size, but there are others of us who prefer our main characters to be entirely different identities.

My first run of Origins, I played a human mage, and generally tried to resolve choices the way I thought I myself would react. I finished the game, and it was fun and all, but when I started Awakening I realized I had no desire to keep playing the same PC. I ended up playing through Origins again with a city elf, trying to create for the warden a personality that wasn't necessarily the same as my own. That experience was much more enjoyable, such that I abandoned my mage entirely and took the elf through Awakening and all the other DLC.

With Hawke, I tried to do the same thing- create a unique character, not just copypaste my own personality into the game. Once I abandoned the notion that Hawke had to be ME, I was not at all bothered by the voicing. In fact, on subsequent playthroughs, the voice acting greatly improves the contrast between the diplomatic/snarky/hardass options. I wouldn't go back to the Origins system of dialogue for DA2 even if I had the choice.

I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them

[Tirigon]

Faust1979 wrote...

I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them

Let me put it like that: not you are your avatar, but your Avatar becomes you.

That is not possible with a voiced protagonist.

Thing is:

Voiced protagonist: You are the regisseur - you can give directions, but the player character still acts them out on its own, you can´t decide it completely

Unvoiced protagonist: You are the actor. the various dialogue options are what the regisseur presents, you chose what you feel best and how to act it.

Personally, I prefer acting over directing.

[randName]

In a RPG I never want to be the character, I want to play a different character - thus I approve of having a voiced character that adjusts/changes depending on how I play.

[TJSolo]

DarthBakura wrote...

planed scaped wrote...

DarthBakura wrote...
There are still JRPGs that don't use voice-over work for every line of dialogue

Lost Odyssey and Resonance of fate had dialog that wasn't voiced over. Ahhhh both of those games were spectacular.

Haven't played RoF yet. Lost Odyssey was great though.

Anyway, I think the game I picked up was Magna Carta 2... or was it Star Ocean: The Last Hope International? I can't remember. One of them was not entirely dubbed though, I'm 100% certain about that.

Except my point is not about the percentage that is voiced in jRGs. Those jRPGs all have canon voices for their characters. I don't even know why this tangent was brought up.

[Night Prowler76]

Voice acting makes it feel like Im just along for the characters ride.

SIlent character lets you imagine your voice, your tone, and reading dialogue is never bad, people who think it is are just lazy.

[Night Prowler76]

Faust1979 wrote...

CLime wrote...

A lot of the criticism against a voiced PC works under the assumption that players actually want to play as themselves. No doubt this is true for a group of some size, but there are others of us who prefer our main characters to be entirely different identities.

My first run of Origins, I played a human mage, and generally tried to resolve choices the way I thought I myself would react. I finished the game, and it was fun and all, but when I started Awakening I realized I had no desire to keep playing the same PC. I ended up playing through Origins again with a city elf, trying to create for the warden a personality that wasn't necessarily the same as my own. That experience was much more enjoyable, such that I abandoned my mage entirely and took the elf through Awakening and all the other DLC.

With Hawke, I tried to do the same thing- create a unique character, not just copypaste my own personality into the game. Once I abandoned the notion that Hawke had to be ME, I was not at all bothered by the voicing. In fact, on subsequent playthroughs, the voice acting greatly improves the contrast between the diplomatic/snarky/hardass options. I wouldn't go back to the Origins system of dialogue for DA2 even if I had the choice.

I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them

I think things just go over your head...nobody is saying they think they are the character, but when you read dialogue you have to use your imagination as to what tone and voice your character has, which for the most part, add to the immersion for most gamers, there is a reason that TES games, as well as Fallouts and DAO blow away games like DA2, you kind of bond with your character in those games.

Games like DA2 are geared towards people with short attention spans and a lack of imagination, they really are games for the intellectually challenged.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

CLime wrote...

A lot of the criticism against a voiced PC works under the assumption that players actually want to play as themselves. No doubt this is true for a group of some size, but there are others of us who prefer our main characters to be entirely different identities.

My first run of Origins, I played a human mage, and generally tried to resolve choices the way I thought I myself would react. I finished the game, and it was fun and all, but when I started Awakening I realized I had no desire to keep playing the same PC. I ended up playing through Origins again with a city elf, trying to create for the warden a personality that wasn't necessarily the same as my own. That experience was much more enjoyable, such that I abandoned my mage entirely and took the elf through Awakening and all the other DLC.

With Hawke, I tried to do the same thing- create a unique character, not just copypaste my own personality into the game. Once I abandoned the notion that Hawke had to be ME, I was not at all bothered by the voicing. In fact, on subsequent playthroughs, the voice acting greatly improves the contrast between the diplomatic/snarky/hardass options. I wouldn't go back to the Origins system of dialogue for DA2 even if I had the choice.

I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them

I think things just go over your head...nobody is saying they think they are the character, but when you read dialogue you have to use your imagination as to what tone and voice your character has, which for the most part, add to the immersion for most gamers, there is a reason that TES games, as well as Fallouts and DAO blow away games like DA2, you kind of bond with your character in those games.

Games like DA2 are geared towards people with short attention spans and a lack of imagination, they really are games for the intellectually challenged.

For some gamers, a minority some, yes. You may dislike voice acting for your PC for predisclosed reasons however the majority seemingly disagree. There have been many games panned simply because they lack voiced dialogue. Even Zelda, a renowned franchise has received negative attention because of this. Many games in today's market would not survive if they returned to a silent cast. That is not to say reading is lackluster or that people do not enjoying doing so. I have a heap of older games and adore them. What I mean to indicate is in today's market voice acting for everyone has become a stable. So the notion "most gamers prefer a silent PC" is wrong.

The reason DA2 was blown away was due to all the issues associated with it. Hawke was not one of them. If they game had been the Origins 2 many yearned for yet retained the voice protagonist. It would be hailed the superior title regardless of the group lobbying for a silent hero.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 26 mars 2011 - 03:02 .

[MonkeyLungs]

I think it is reasonably well established that reading is not anywhere nearly as popular as it was even 20 years ago.

It is evident in the undertones of people's responses ...
* the warden was silent: i never felt that my character in da:o was silent, NEVER.
*the warden has no personality: i felt that i had a chance to shape the personality in a limited way due to the limited responses but the character's voice in mymind was all MINE (and I don't mean that it sounded just like me because i played female characters too .. their voices were still mine). you can also shape hawke's personality in a limited fashion due to limited responses but for me presents two problems. the voice is no longer mine it is decided for me. i don't know exactly what hawke is going to say, there's a bit of a guessing game going on.

the guessing game for dialogue is actually kind of fun in it's own way (to me at least) it just doesn't have the same effect and doesn't resonate with me as well as just having text.

i woould prefer games to be all text maybe with some key dialogue being voiced (bg2 reference - irenicus). i would prefer all this focus on making machinima to be redirected into gameplay. i don't really care if games are cinematic although that doesn't mean i can't understand the appeal and also enjoy them.

[Faust1979]

Tirigon wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them

Let me put it like that: not you are your avatar, but your Avatar becomes you.

That is not possible with a voiced protagonist.

Thing is:

Voiced protagonist: You are the regisseur - you can give directions, but the player character still acts them out on its own, you can´t decide it completely

Unvoiced protagonist: You are the actor. the various dialogue options are what the regisseur presents, you chose what you feel best and how to act it.

Personally, I prefer acting over directing.

whether the the character is voiced or not it doesn't become me because it's a video game and not real

[Ahglock]

Faust1979 wrote...

CLime wrote...

A lot of the criticism against a voiced PC works under the assumption that players actually want to play as themselves. No doubt this is true for a group of some size, but there are others of us who prefer our main characters to be entirely different identities.

My first run of Origins, I played a human mage, and generally tried to resolve choices the way I thought I myself would react. I finished the game, and it was fun and all, but when I started Awakening I realized I had no desire to keep playing the same PC. I ended up playing through Origins again with a city elf, trying to create for the warden a personality that wasn't necessarily the same as my own. That experience was much more enjoyable, such that I abandoned my mage entirely and took the elf through Awakening and all the other DLC.

With Hawke, I tried to do the same thing- create a unique character, not just copypaste my own personality into the game. Once I abandoned the notion that Hawke had to be ME, I was not at all bothered by the voicing. In fact, on subsequent playthroughs, the voice acting greatly improves the contrast between the diplomatic/snarky/hardass options. I wouldn't go back to the Origins system of dialogue for DA2 even if I had the choice.

I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them

I am not sure I get the myself part of the argument.  But for those who want it more power to them.  The issue is with a voiced protagonist there is one character to play.  You are commander shepard and that is it.  The fairly shallow options in dialogue don't change it much, they just change the level of jerk you are.  you are basically the same character just some times maybe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. 

Non voiced characters allow more freedom in making the character be what you want it to be,  For some sure it is a reflection of themselves or an idealised version of themselves, others might want to model a character on a favorite movie or book character.  Maybe you hear Chuck noris when you immagine your character or John Wayne, or Angelina Jolie etc.  Maybe you make up a voice and personality completly whole cloth.  Non-voiced allows that freedom, voiced does not. 

While bioware has not done it in every game I think voiced characters suits them.  In bioware games they are telling you a story, in for example elder scroll games you are creating, finding, telling the story.  In games where the story is told to you a voiced character is more aporpriate IMO.  In games where the player is teling the story, it is not. 

[AlanC9]

Ahglock wrote...
Non voiced characters allow more freedom in making the character be what you want it to be,  For some sure it is a reflection of themselves or an idealised version of themselves, others might want to model a character on a favorite movie or book character.  Maybe you hear Chuck noris when you immagine your character or John Wayne, or Angelina Jolie etc.  Maybe you make up a voice and personality completly whole cloth.  Non-voiced allows that freedom, voiced does not.  

How does non-voiced offer that freedom? The actual words are right there. sure, you can imagine different voices reading those words, but that doesn't get you a very different character.

[DAO MAdhatter]

Aburai wrote...

 Does a spoken character that you created ruin the illusion that you're that character? What if you don't even know all of what they can say? This is my argument against BioWare's using the dialouge wheel and spoken character.

 When I was but a wee lad, a whole 3 weeks ago, I remember playing Origins. I remember being the character. There was not a moment where I didn't feel as though I were the one talking, fighting, and gathering. I would read through all of the dialouge options and pick the one that best suited both my character, Aburai, and myself. The NPCs would, of course, not refer to me by name. They would refer to me by the title of  "The Warden." Using the title instead of a name also helped the feeling of immersion, which is incredibly vital in a role playing game such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

 I then played Dragon Age II, to continue my heroics in Thedas. My character now had not a title, but a name people called him. This ruined some of the immersion, but not too much. My character also spoke now, which made it feel like I was merely controlling the characters actions and was not actually them. The dialouge wheel also helped destroy the immersion. You only got the gist of what your character was going to say, not the entire thing. In a role playing game such as this, it's important to know exactly what your character is going to say.

What do you guys n' gals think? Any opinion as welcome.

See... The problem with your logic is that unlike the Warden, Hawke isnt just some cardboard cutout ment to repesent you. He/She is a fully realized character that your not so much as ment to create as control what they do, I much prefere this way as I hate my self & I dont want to play myself. I want to play as an epic adventurer & hero, & I think Hawke does a brilliant job of letting me do that.

BTW... Someone said they hated Mark Meers Voice. HOW DARE YOU! Thats blasphimous! Mark Meer is a very talented voice actor & brings Shepered to life. Your just too jadded from playing those oldin days crap  rpgs like Zork. Which by the way could never match up the splender of Mass Effect.

Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 26 mars 2011 - 05:23 .

[txgoldrush]

Remember JC (and Alex) Denton, Geralt of Rivia, Agent Thorton were all VA'd as well and I think Deus Ex Human Revolution will push the boundaries on VA protagonists with Adam Jansen.

Sorry, but in the age of voice acting...I hate the one sided conversations. It just sounds awful. And Hawke feels far far more human than the Warden, especially Lady Hawke. I hate it when my characters are just dumb statues.

Oh how I wished my Wu the Lotus Blossom could talk in Jade Empire.

[Seitur]

My preference is quiet character and dialogue tree. Voiced & dialogue whee is one of things I didn't liked in DA2.

[txgoldrush]

Then there is Alpha Protocols...now that one has no paraphrasing at all, just tone.

That was too far....

For the most part, the phrases are fine...just think of them as the thought process of the phrase Hawke is about to say, even if he (she) softens it up. Sometimes he will imply whats in the wheel, not outright say it.

[Alpr]

Nonsense, feels like you're actually there and not standing in a corner being all quiet while everyone else talks.

[TJSolo]

Faust1979 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them

Let me put it like that: not you are your avatar, but your Avatar becomes you.

That is not possible with a voiced protagonist.

Thing is:

Voiced protagonist: You are the regisseur - you can give directions, but the player character still acts them out on its own, you can´t decide it completely

Unvoiced protagonist: You are the actor. the various dialogue options are what the regisseur presents, you chose what you feel best and how to act it.

Personally, I prefer acting over directing.

whether the the character is voiced or not it doesn't become me because it's a video game and not real

Then why are you in a thread discussing roleplaying and the disconnect that can occur with voice characters?

Modifié par TJSolo, 26 mars 2011 - 05:41 .

[MonkeyLungs]

TJSolo wrote...

Then why are you in a thread discussing roleplaying and the disconnect that can occur with voice characters?

I think most people here haven't actually role played ever. It's probably too nerdy.

[Alelsa]

Dark83 wrote...

I remember back in the good old days, I just needed to say "job" or "rune" to hold a conversation. Good times.

name
job
join

Good ol Origin, I miss them

Back on topic, though:
My preference would be for a voiced character but with a dialogue wheel that actually has the precise lines you're going to say.  Not only would I prefer to lose the paraphrasing, but it'd also mean those who don't want the voice could have an option to just turn it off and read from the screen.