MonkeyLungs wrote...
I think most people here haven't actually role played ever. It's probably too nerdy.
Alelsa wrote...
MonkeyLungs wrote...
I think most people here haven't actually role played ever. It's probably too nerdy.
And ten years ago we'd have answered them by pointing out that anyone sitting on the internet discussing computer games has no call to call anyone else nerdy
Damn I feel old now.
Talogrungi wrote...
Personally, I think a spoken character actually improves immersion .. if the VA is good.
In Origins, it's my mute warden who feels disconnected .. from myself, and from the world in which the story takes place. He has no tone, [/i]no fire, no [i]emotion because he has no voice with which to convey those emotions. When Hawke is angry, he sounds angry .. and it draws you in.
A line of angrily written text can never compare to that imo.
Aburai wrote...
Does a spoken character that you created ruin the illusion that you're that character? What if you don't even know all of what they can say? This is my argument against BioWare's using the dialouge wheel and spoken character.
When I was but a wee lad, a whole 3 weeks ago, I remember playing Origins. I remember being the character. There was not a moment where I didn't feel as though I were the one talking, fighting, and gathering. I would read through all of the dialouge options and pick the one that best suited both my character, Aburai, and myself. The NPCs would, of course, not refer to me by name. They would refer to me by the title of "The Warden." Using the title instead of a name also helped the feeling of immersion, which is incredibly vital in a role playing game such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect.
I then played Dragon Age II, to continue my heroics in Thedas. My character now had not a title, but a name people called him. This ruined some of the immersion, but not too much. My character also spoke now, which made it feel like I was merely controlling the characters actions and was not actually them. The dialouge wheel also helped destroy the immersion. You only got the gist of what your character was going to say, not the entire thing. In a role playing game such as this, it's important to know exactly what your character is going to say.
What do you guys n' gals think? Any opinion as welcome.
Rockworm503 wrote...
No more than an unfeeling mute does. I never have this problem. I play games for fun and I don't want to play as myself. I play female characters more than I do men doesn't mean I imagine myself as a woman lol.
Ahglock wrote...
Faust1979 wrote...
CLime wrote...
A lot of the criticism against a voiced PC works under the assumption that players actually want to play as themselves. No doubt this is true for a group of some size, but there are others of us who prefer our main characters to be entirely different identities.
My first run of Origins, I played a human mage, and generally tried to resolve choices the way I thought I myself would react. I finished the game, and it was fun and all, but when I started Awakening I realized I had no desire to keep playing the same PC. I ended up playing through Origins again with a city elf, trying to create for the warden a personality that wasn't necessarily the same as my own. That experience was much more enjoyable, such that I abandoned my mage entirely and took the elf through Awakening and all the other DLC.
With Hawke, I tried to do the same thing- create a unique character, not just copypaste my own personality into the game. Once I abandoned the notion that Hawke had to be ME, I was not at all bothered by the voicing. In fact, on subsequent playthroughs, the voice acting greatly improves the contrast between the diplomatic/snarky/hardass options. I wouldn't go back to the Origins system of dialogue for DA2 even if I had the choice.
I don't want to play as myself, that is why I play video games I find it a little weird that someone would play a game and make believe it's them
I am not sure I get the myself part of the argument. But for those who want it more power to them. The issue is with a voiced protagonist there is one character to play. You are commander shepard and that is it. The fairly shallow options in dialogue don't change it much, they just change the level of jerk you are. you are basically the same character just some times maybe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
Non voiced characters allow more freedom in making the character be what you want it to be, For some sure it is a reflection of themselves or an idealised version of themselves, others might want to model a character on a favorite movie or book character. Maybe you hear Chuck noris when you immagine your character or John Wayne, or Angelina Jolie etc. Maybe you make up a voice and personality completly whole cloth. Non-voiced allows that freedom, voiced does not.
While bioware has not done it in every game I think voiced characters suits them. In bioware games they are telling you a story, in for example elder scroll games you are creating, finding, telling the story. In games where the story is told to you a voiced character is more aporpriate IMO. In games where the player is teling the story, it is not.
Modifié par DAO MAdhatter, 26 mars 2011 - 06:31 .
DAO MAdhatter wrote...
Dragon Age 2 is much more complex than Mass Effect. Did you that repeat use of the same diolouge options makes Hawke into a certai ntype of Person, So Picking evil diolouge options all the time makes your guy talk like a douche when anotehr character talks to him, or he yells something evil when hes entering a fight. Its quite groundbreaking stuff if you ask me.
TJSolo wrote...
Rockworm503 wrote...
No more than an unfeeling mute does. I never have this problem. I play games for fun and I don't want to play as myself. I play female characters more than I do men doesn't mean I imagine myself as a woman lol.
If you don't play games to RPing and place yourself into the shoes of the character then how are you going to answer a question about roleplaying?
Warheadz wrote...
And anyways, that made me feel that Hawke is just Hawke and not me as he starts getting independent of his mastermind controller.
TJSolo wrote...
If you were RPing then your Warden having no fire and no emotion is all your fault. The fact that you call the Warden "my Warden" and Hawke just Hawke is the RP disconnect that is being covered here.You could even enjoy the lines Hawke says more than your Warden but for RPing and immersion your word use shows which has more of a connection.
Rockworm503 wrote...
TJSolo wrote...
Rockworm503 wrote...
No more than an unfeeling mute does. I never have this problem. I play games for fun and I don't want to play as myself. I play female characters more than I do men doesn't mean I imagine myself as a woman lol.
If you don't play games to RPing and place yourself into the shoes of the character then how are you going to answer a question about roleplaying?
Since when is it a requrement to imagine myself as a Dwarf to play as a Dwarf?
You don't make any sense. I have no problem roleplaying I roleplay my character I get into their heads and decide their attitude and view points doesnt make me that character.
Modifié par TJSolo, 26 mars 2011 - 06:59 .
DAO MAdhatter wrote...
Warheadz wrote...
And anyways, that made me feel that Hawke is just Hawke and not me as he starts getting independent of his mastermind controller.
Yes, but thats a good thing, it like when you have children, you influence them & they grow there own identity, I hated how daos warden was just a cardboard cutout with no chance to grow as a character. Hawke is much better for that.
Talogrungi wrote...
TJSolo wrote...
If you were RPing then your Warden having no fire and no emotion is all your fault. The fact that you call the Warden "my Warden" and Hawke just Hawke is the RP disconnect that is being covered here.You could even enjoy the lines Hawke says more than your Warden but for RPing and immersion your word use shows which has more of a connection.
Hah, you're placing faaaar too much emphasis on a single word choice and frankly, could not be more wrong in that respect. My connection to "my" warden is such that I can't even remember his name. He was little more than an artificial construct around which the Origins story unfolded and never developed a discernable personality in the same way that Hawke so easily does.
This may cut to the concept of what does, and doesn't, consitute immersion in RPGs. For some, it's the ability to assume the role of the protagonist in their own minds; to become Hawke, or the Warden. For others, (like myself), it's the ability to be absorbed in the story to the point where we care about Hawke, or the Warden and want to see what happens to him next as a result of the paths down which we have guided him.
Warheadz wrote...
Oh goodie. The game counts how many answers of what type you have made, and always chooses the dialogue set you have most answers on. Is that really so groundbreaking?
TJSolo wrote...
Then perhaps you should read the first post by the OP as he clearly writes which concept is being referred to by his topic.
Talogrungi wrote...
TJSolo wrote...
Then perhaps you should read the first post by the OP as he clearly writes which concept is being referred to by his topic.
I did; I don't believe that the referred to concept of immersion is even viable in an computer RPG. Too many technological boundaries and sensory limitations.
Modifié par TJSolo, 26 mars 2011 - 07:15 .
sleepyowlet wrote...
That kind of evolving is good in a companion (and ironically the companions in DA2 don't do that kind of evolving), imo, but my character is supposed to be my character, not some 3rd person thing in storytelling. I don't want the game to decide where that character goes, and how they evolve, I want to do it myself, inside my head. Use my imagination.
That doesn't mean my character is supposed to be me - I have a bunch of Wardens who have very distinct personalities, and evolved in completely different ways. One went suicidal and did the whole "Ultimate Sacrifice" thing because she just wanted to die, one just ran home after everything was over, and kinda hid under her bed, one shrugged and went on with her life. One fell in love, others didn't, one got cold and detatched from the world (while still being nice on the outside)...
I want to do that. I want to roleplay, really roleplay. It isn't a question of the character becoming me, it's a question of me becoming the character for a time.
Talogrungi wrote...
TJSolo wrote...
Then perhaps you should read the first post by the OP as he clearly writes which concept is being referred to by his topic.
I did; I don't believe that the referred to concept of immersion is even viable in an computer RPG. Too many technological boundaries and sensory limitations.
sleepyowlet wrote...
The only limit is set by your imagination. Some of us want to use ours. That's what role-playing is about - some of us play CRPGs because they don't have the time to do P&P (this is the case with me and quite a number of my RL friends). The CRPG was invented to give the player the feel of a P&P without the need for other people to play with.
A role-playing-game is supposed to be about roleplaying. If it isn't, call it something different.
Talogrungi wrote...
sleepyowlet wrote...
The only limit is set by your imagination. Some of us want to use ours. That's what role-playing is about - some of us play CRPGs because they don't have the time to do P&P (this is the case with me and quite a number of my RL friends). The CRPG was invented to give the player the feel of a P&P without the need for other people to play with.
A role-playing-game is supposed to be about roleplaying. If it isn't, call it something different.
That's a rather hostile viewpoint; and I absolutely disagree with you.
CRPG always put you in situations with very clearly defined limits.
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