160 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

Talogrungi wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

Personally, I think a spoken character actually improves immersion .. if the VA is good.

In Origins, it's my mute warden who feels disconnected .. from myself, and from the world in which the story takes place. He has no tone, [/i]no fire, no emotion because he has no voice with which to convey those emotions. When Hawke is angry, he sounds angry .. and it draws you in.

A line of angrily written text can never compare to that imo.

Wow. A line of angrily written text can never compare to that imo?  The days of when the general populace will say about a movie based on a novel, it was good but the book was better are dwindling.  Are movies getting better or did someone just double tap the human races imagination. 

That's an out of context tangent. I'm talking about a specific situation; a graphical, voiced, CRPG with a mute, text-driven protagonist. Books are an entirely different matter; when everything is text, then text works. As it happens, I'm a huge fan of fictional literature; I [i]like text.

But not in the manner in which it was presented to us in Origins. The two media felt forced together and, imo, didn't mesh well in comparison to a voiced CRPG with a voiced protagonist. Perhaps I'm a purist on the basis that I am such a fan of both literature and CRPGs, but I would rather they remain separate .. that's just my preference.

Fair enough.  I did not get your full meaning I guess.  In other mediums I prefer pure aproaches as well so I can see your point, I just disagree with it in this instance. 

[Ahglock]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ahglock wrote...
In the non-voiced games there a lot more lines of dialogue while they don't always match up with what you would want to say, it happens a hell of a lot more often than in the voiced games.  So while it isn't perfect it does offer much more freedom.

Could you define "a lot"? The percentage doesn't strike me as being all that much higher in DAO. I suppose we could measure it, though.

The days of when the general populace will say about a movie based on a novel, it was good but the book was better are dwindling.

When were those days, exactly?

Are we arguing the general principal or DAO v DA2.  I am not a huge DAO fan, you will not see me singing its praises here or anywhere else.  But in most non-voiced games I have played in the last 15 years or so I'd say the options in dialogue doubled or more the options in voiced games. 

As for when those days were, all my life until recently.  So um 1973 and on, and I assume all of pre 1973 but being unborn I can't really say for sure.  And really 1978 is about as far back as I can remember. 

[Aburai]

2papercuts wrote...

xCelesx wrote...

Voiced, I found it easier to connect with Hawke than the Warden. It was funny though, having a character tell the warden they loved her, just for her to look

I think thats more of a problem with animation than not having a voice though...

Anyways, I think having a VO makes it more like playing as a customizable companion, and limiting responses to only basically 3 tones does not help the imersion. Overall, until they can make the protagonists voice customizable i prefer silent

Where have you been all my life? You just summed up everything I meant.

That said, I find it jarring how much this thread has grown in a measly 6 days.

[Aburai]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

I much prefer the silent companion. It was actually natural to hear what a character wanted to say, then select from a list of options and then imemdiately hear the character respond. Hearing 'myself' repeat what I've just read seems a bit pointless, not to mention immersion-breaking when they say it completely wrong. For example, Isabela says 'you're not thinking of bringing feelings into this, are you?' In order to not completely break it off, I select 'why not?' and Hawke says cheesily - 'WHAT ABOUT LOVE?!?!' True story.

Also, you are given less choice with a voiced character because of the restrictions on voice acting. This means that the game is dumbed down further which is never a good thing.

   I have literally been giggling the past 10 minutes because of that. It happened to me too. That's the point when I started thinking about Hawke as a customizable companion, rather than a character of my own creation. Mass Effect had a good thing going with speaking Shepard and the wheel. However, that's an entirely different story for Dragon Age. Mass Effect is telling the story of Shepard. Dragon Age is telling the story of different characters - different yous; because of this, the dialouge wheel is no where near as effective as it was in Mass Effect, where the story of Shepard was being told, albeit with a few major differences. In Dragon Age, it's about you. Do what YOU want to do. Shape the world around YOU. It's not a story about a character, like Mass Effect. It's a story about YOU. BioWare seems to be giving into EA' s mindset of making games for cash and not for fans, because I enjoyed DAO much more than DA II. The whole "this character was pre-made. You can change a few things about him and the story, but the majority is pre-made" thing is utter BS.


 Honestly, if this is what Dragon Age is turning into, II will most likely be my last.

[AlanC9]

As long as the thread's been necromanced anyway...

Ahglock wrote...
Are we arguing the general principal or DAO v DA2.  I am not a huge DAO fan, you will not see me singing its praises here or anywhere else.  But in most non-voiced games I have played in the last 15 years or so I'd say the options in dialogue doubled or more the options in voiced games.  

I think this estimate is way off. I've just finished replaying BG, and two or three responses is the typical interaction. There are a couple of spots with more options, but the average just isn't that high.

I think you're also kidding yourself about books falling off in cultural promince only recently, but that's OT.

[myztikrice]

Aburai wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

I much prefer the silent companion. It was actually natural to hear what a character wanted to say, then select from a list of options and then imemdiately hear the character respond. Hearing 'myself' repeat what I've just read seems a bit pointless, not to mention immersion-breaking when they say it completely wrong. For example, Isabela says 'you're not thinking of bringing feelings into this, are you?' In order to not completely break it off, I select 'why not?' and Hawke says cheesily - 'WHAT ABOUT LOVE?!?!' True story.

Also, you are given less choice with a voiced character because of the restrictions on voice acting. This means that the game is dumbed down further which is never a good thing.

   I have literally been giggling the past 10 minutes because of that. It happened to me too. That's the point when I started thinking about Hawke as a customizable companion, rather than a character of my own creation. Mass Effect had a good thing going with speaking Shepard and the wheel. However, that's an entirely different story for Dragon Age. Mass Effect is telling the story of Shepard. Dragon Age is telling the story of different characters - different yous; because of this, the dialouge wheel is no where near as effective as it was in Mass Effect, where the story of Shepard was being told, albeit with a few major differences. In Dragon Age, it's about you. Do what YOU want to do. Shape the world around YOU. It's not a story about a character, like Mass Effect. It's a story about YOU.

It's the story of Hawke...

[AkiKishi]

I question the need to roleplay a pre-gen character anyway. If a character already has an established history and personality, they don't really need you.
TNO worked because he had anmesia, you were both equally clueless about him.

Hawke is not. Hawke could just as easily play out in a cinematic fashion and nothing would really change.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 30 mars 2011 - 07:04 .

[Tripedius]

I never pretend I'm the character I'm playing. That's more for 5 year olds. Hence I have no problem with and actually support a spoken character. But there will always be whiners.

[daymz]

DA:O system was better, not least because Hawke invariably says something completely different to what you intend.

[Demonhoopa]

Aburai wrote...

 Does a spoken character that you created ruin the illusion that you're that character? What if you don't even know all of what they can say? This is my argument against BioWare's using the dialouge wheel and spoken character.

 When I was but a wee lad, a whole 3 weeks ago, I remember playing Origins. I remember being the character. There was not a moment where I didn't feel as though I were the one talking, fighting, and gathering. I would read through all of the dialouge options and pick the one that best suited both my character, Aburai, and myself. The NPCs would, of course, not refer to me by name. They would refer to me by the title of  "The Warden." Using the title instead of a name also helped the feeling of immersion, which is incredibly vital in a role playing game such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

 I then played Dragon Age II, to continue my heroics in Thedas. My character now had not a title, but a name people called him. This ruined some of the immersion, but not too much. My character also spoke now, which made it feel like I was merely controlling the characters actions and was not actually them. The dialouge wheel also helped destroy the immersion. You only got the gist of what your character was going to say, not the entire thing. In a role playing game such as this, it's important to know exactly what your character is going to say.

What do you guys n' gals think? Any opinion as welcome.

 

I am not the character. RPG's for me are like a book or a novel that I have some say so in. It is not me, it is something I'm watching unfold (which frees me up to play either gender. Good thing since there seems to be a trend of the female voice actors being "better" than the male.......at least to some people). As long as I like the voice actor, I couldn't care less if it's voiced or not.  

Totally fine with all 4 Bioware games I've played. No complaints.

[Moirnelithe]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I need to preface this post by saying that I think Bioware games have, in general, great voice acting. The voice actors are awesome they do a fantastic job approaching their roles with sincerity and to hear that in a video game is cool. Mark Meer is awesome as Shepard and I honestly don't have a preference between him or Hale (I think they are both awesome) -just had to throw that in-.

Howevver, it has been my assertion since ever since that voice acting detracts from games and my experience with the way games have changed over the years. This is just my opinion and I know I'm completely outnumbered. When you add voice acting you limit much of what can be done in terms of complexity of story and in the gameplay.

I think as far as it should have ever went was to have key elements voiced (Irenicus in BGII) and have the rest as text. Reading for me is just as fun, if not more so given the advantages text provides, as listening to an actor.

My thoughts exactly, +1.

Edit: I've always preferred reading the book over watching the movie and maybe the voiced/unvoiced thing is like this. Bioware is definitely heading towards a more cinematic experience, and since I'm the 'bookish' type I guess that leaves me behind.

I prefer having more options (the wheel's options were too limiting by far) and employing my own imagination over having a set role forced on me. Being a puppetmaster using someone else's puppet is just not my thing. Maybe it would be more of my thing if the wheel used full sentences instead of paraphrases I don't know. Giving the lack of choices I don't think it matters.

Having the voice actor go from soft voiced doormat to aggressive jerk in 10 seconds flat and back again (someone here called it whiplash and explained it much better than me) is extremely jarring and extremely irritated me. But what irritated me more was not having options that made sense. Example: duPuis chat, you get the option between believing him and letting him go -or- not believing him and attacking. Neither of them made sense to me. I -did- believe him, I just would never in a 100 years let him go nor would I have used the tone the VA used for attacking to tell him that.

Anyway it's hard to explain in a language that's not my own. But I'm sure you get my drift.

Modifié par Evainelithe, 30 mars 2011 - 10:02 .