193 réponses à ce sujet

[Alikain]

jbblue05 wrote...

The story was solid but it felt incomplete.like theis should be more to it

In Origins the ending completed the story.

And I don't like what happened to Anders.
What did Justice do to Anders?

This is the problem right here. Justice is the spirit righteousness ..... how come he become another spirit which doesn't make sense of you ask me. Vengeance is the oppostie of justice, so for them to come up with this to say because of Anders the spirit of rigteouseness became another spirite is bull.

[CRISIS1717]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

David Gaider was probably told to make a story that only plays in a town so the designers could reuse the maps 100 times, during nights and days each act. So you cant blame him. He probably wanted to make an epic story playing outside Kirkwall

Don't defend Gaider, the writing was particularly poor in Dragon Age 2 and I got bored of a lot of his mystery quests turning up demons.

[Ariella]

Popular entertainment/well told stories that ended in cliff hangers: Zha'ha'dum (Babylon 5 Season , Hugo Award Winner, J. Michael Strazynski), Changes (Dresden Files, Jim Butcher), Empire Strikes Back (Star Wars ep. 5 George Lucas), What Kind of Day it Has Been (West Wing Season 1, Aaron Sorkin), Best of Both Worlds Part One (Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 3, Michael Pillar, TV Guide's 100 greatest TV moments), Batman: The Long Halloween (Jim Loeb/Tim Sales DC comics 13 issue series).

I could go on, but I think the point's been made. cliffhangers are an acceptable method of writing in a serial format, which Dragon Age is turning out to be. And if I may point out, DA 2 does not fit the classic definition of a cliffhanger as Hawke's story as Champion is complete by the end of the narrative and there is the requirement that the main character or one of the main characters in an ensamble be in peril (Han's frozen in carbonite, Picard as Borg, Sheridan alive or dead etc) none of those things are true for tbe characters of DA2. Hawke's rise to power is self contained, it's what effect Hawke's actions have on the world which leaves one wondering.

[Alex Kershaw]

+1

[SupR G]

aries1001 wrote...

In DA: O, you, or another Warden, always kill the Archdemon. Yes, there are small and maybe minor or major changes in the ending slides, depending on what you do in say Orzammar or at the Circle. Nevertheless, you're destined to kill the Archdemon, because it is written that a Grey Warden shall kill the -ahem- big bad evil guy that -cough- leads the ancient evil - that - cough- threathens the land.

The story in DA2 is not the one we've seen many times before; it's a story about how a man or woman rises from poverty to wealth, and from obscurity to fame. This is story not about what can change the nature of man, but what a man or woman must to become the Champion (of the people) of Kirkwall...

Yes, I read the synopsis on the back of the box too. And I've seen this story many times before as well. It's not completely new... its Scarface meets Dragon Age. I never mentioned that Dragon Age Origins had the be-all and end-all story that all games must follow, I simply said it was better written. It had a real struggle, and not just with the archdemon. It had a better sense of time.

Hawke blasts through 10 years in what feels like a matter of months to the audience, all while never feeling really poor or really rich. Oh yeah, and the story didn't end. Whoops.

[Ghrelt]

It is a complete story. "How the Champion of Kirkwall changed the world of Thedas forever". That does not mean that it is the complete story of Hawke, or even that it didn't leave more questions than answers.

[orbit991]

If they didn't have enough time to finish the music, the quests and the high resolution textures on time, I'm sure they didn't have the time for more writing detail much less for alternative endings.

[Maderek]

What I didn't like about DA2's story is that there is no real main goal.

In, DA:O, there was blight, you felt like you were striving towards a single goal. In DA2, it's just a problem every three years.

[EthanDirtch]

Well, I really don't think there's a cliffhanger here. The story told in DA2 is about the conflict in Kirkwall, and they concluded that particular story within the game. You play as Hawke, you participate in the conflict, and your actions help define how this conflict in Kirkwall concludes, that's the story. The aftermath/ramifications of the end of this conflict will be for another game, or a DLC, or whatever. It's not really a cliffhanger in that regard. It's the same with DA:O. You're the Warden, you participate in the fight against the Darkspawn, your actions help define how that conflict concludes. Aside from a few summaries of the aftermath of the conflict, you don't really participate in that, and how the rest of the world reacted to the conflict wasn't really touched on, much like DA2.

Anyway, I do think DA2 had the same sort of potential for story and character that DA:O and other BioWare games had. Perhaps they could have done with a longer development time, and perhaps BioWare themselves have just set such a high bar for themselves that will forever haunt them. Overall I enjoyed the story as it is.

[Ghrelt]

jbblue05 wrote...
And I don't like what happened to Anders.
What did Justice do to Anders?

The question should be, "What did Anders do to Justice?"  Also, after playing "Awakenings" again, I noticed that my Warden sure mentioned revenge to Justice a whole lot.  I think my Warden was the one to start Justice down the path to becoming a vengeance demon.

(Quick aside:  I just realised I put Justice on the same level as Anya from Buffy.  Unintended.)

[txgoldrush]

I think DAO's story is cliched and generic to the point where I really felt it. The side stories were good, but I cannot help thinking...oooh, its Lordo fthe Rings again.

DAII, instead, is Biowares best written work since Baldur's Gate II. Instead of a cliched hero defeats evil story...they did a biopic about a woman (I perfer Lady Hawke) is caught in the social conflicts of Kirkwall, which leads to all out war.

I checked to make sure Chris Avellone didn't write this...yep, it was really David Gaider. His writing has improved drastically.

[Everwarden]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

The story is terrible its time to get some new writers.

I don't think the writers are bad. They just.. wrote a bad story. It could just as easily be the fault of the time crunch and a corporate mandate to have a cliffhanger. 

[Ariella]

Ellythe wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...
And I don't like what happened to Anders.
What did Justice do to Anders?

The question should be, "What did Anders do to Justice?"  Also, after playing "Awakenings" again, I noticed that my Warden sure mentioned revenge to Justice a whole lot.  I think my Warden was the one to start Justice down the path to becoming a vengeance demon.

(Quick aside:  I just realised I put Justice on the same level as Anya from Buffy.  Unintended.)

Sokay especially considering that Anders/Justice's writer was inspired by Buffy/Angel when writing his romance and at least Justice isn't as bad as say... Angelus...

[DragonKingReborn]

EthanDirtch wrote...

Well, I really don't think there's a cliffhanger here. The story told in DA2 is about the conflict in Kirkwall, and they concluded that particular story within the game. You play as Hawke, you participate in the conflict, and your actions help define how this conflict in Kirkwall concludes, that's the story. The aftermath/ramifications of the end of this conflict will be for another game, or a DLC, or whatever. It's not really a cliffhanger in that regard. It's the same with DA:O. You're the Warden, you participate in the fight against the Darkspawn, your actions help define how that conflict concludes. Aside from a few summaries of the aftermath of the conflict, you don't really participate in that, and how the rest of the world reacted to the conflict wasn't really touched on, much like DA2.

Anyway, I do think DA2 had the same sort of potential for story and character that DA:O and other BioWare games had. Perhaps they could have done with a longer development time, and perhaps BioWare themselves have just set such a high bar for themselves that will forever haunt them. Overall I enjoyed the story as it is.

Exactly - assuming you played Origins, you'd see the epilogue slides.  I *think* one of them went something along the lines of 'most people assumed the Warden's story was far from over' regardless of what ending played out (Ultimate Sacrifice excepted, of course).  I don't know if anyone thought Origins story was incomplete.  In any event, I can't quite grasp how that epilogue slide is in any way manifestly different in intent to the short cutscene featuring Cassandra and .... the other Seeker (avoiding spoilers, just in case) ... that played once she finished interrogating Varric at the end of DA2.

Both the cutscene and the epilogue slides imply (rather strongly) that there are more stories to come, but that this one (origins or DA2) is over.  An ending with a hook is still an ending.

[SupR G]

Ariella wrote...

Popular entertainment/well told stories that ended in cliff hangers: Zha'ha'dum (Babylon 5 Season , Hugo Award Winner, J. Michael Strazynski), Changes (Dresden Files, Jim Butcher), Empire Strikes Back (Star Wars ep. 5 George Lucas), What Kind of Day it Has Been (West Wing Season 1, Aaron Sorkin), Best of Both Worlds Part One (Star Trek: The Next Generation, Season 3, Michael Pillar, TV Guide's 100 greatest TV moments), Batman: The Long Halloween (Jim Loeb/Tim Sales DC comics 13 issue series).

I could go on, but I think the point's been made. cliffhangers are an acceptable method of writing in a serial format, which Dragon Age is turning out to be. And if I may point out, DA 2 does not fit the classic definition of a cliffhanger as Hawke's story as Champion is complete by the end of the narrative and there is the requirement that the main character or one of the main characters in an ensamble be in peril (Han's frozen in carbonite, Picard as Borg, Sheridan alive or dead etc) none of those things are true for tbe characters of DA2. Hawke's rise to power is self contained, it's what effect Hawke's actions have on the world which leaves one wondering.

Humm. Empire Strikes Back had a cliffhanger ending? The story of Empire Strikes Back had a beginning, middle and end. What happened in the final minutes served to perpetuate the trilogy, yes, but in no way did it just drop off. The main story of Star Wars went onwards, and the story of Empire ended. That was also an established trilogy. Also an episodic series with 30-minute episodes using two-parters is not the same. Grabbing moments in time people used cliffhangers and claiming that it's an "acceptable method of writing" because they used them is kind of ignorant.

[Maelora]

David Gaider is most definitely one of the good guys.

But yes, the non-ending was abysmal and the story felt flat here.

I never felt connected to Hawke or knew who she really was. If you're going to go for something other than 'saving the world' then you need a compelling story. DA2 didn't have that, and you have very few choices that matter. Hawke was reactive rather than proactive, little more than a glorified pizza delivery girl.

Modifié par Maelora, 24 mars 2011 - 09:27 .

[txgoldrush]

Sorry, but DAII does not have a "non-ending"...just because a story ends on a down note doesn't mean it ha sno ending. In fact, the ending was part of the message about how conflicts are easily instigated and escalated.

Look at No Country For Old Men's ending...........people may not like it, but it fit the story. And it won Best Picture.

[DJBare]

The entire game is a prologue, get your $60 ready for part 2.

[Alikain]

Ellythe wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...
And I don't like what happened to Anders.
What did Justice do to Anders?

The question should be, "What did Anders do to Justice?"  Also, after playing "Awakenings" again, I noticed that my Warden sure mentioned revenge to Justice a whole lot.  I think my Warden was the one to start Justice down the path to becoming a vengeance demon.

(Quick aside:  I just realised I put Justice on the same level as Anya from Buffy.  Unintended.)

Its not possible for justice to became another spirits. didn't you read up on the different spirits and demons. are you trying to say i desire demon can change to become the opposite of what it is. if that the case it a bad writting.

[Everwarden]

DJBare wrote...

The entire game is a prologue, get your $60 ready for part 2.

It's so true, too. That's the sad part. 

[jbblue05]

Everwarden wrote...

DJBare wrote...

The entire game is a prologue, get your $60 ready for part 2.

It's so true, too. That's the sad part. 

True.

Just like how Witch Hunt was suppose to answer all of our questions about Morrigan but it led to more questions.

Modifié par jbblue05, 24 mars 2011 - 09:41 .

[SupR G]

Writing is like any other art-form. You don't need to understand it in order to decide if you like it or not.

[PaulSX]

EthanDirtch wrote...

Well, I really don't think there's a cliffhanger here. The story told in DA2 is about the conflict in Kirkwall, and they concluded that particular story within the game. 

I have the same opionion. DA2 is about the story of the Champion but not nessasary about the whole story of Hawke. like what has been said before, the important thing of DA2 is what kind of person Hawke is and what is the Champion. In this case, I think DA2's story fullfilled its goal, but it needs more consequences regarding to choices

[F-C]

i think people are being over-critical at this point honestly.


i mean i look at this thread and its people bickering over things like how did anders/justice change so much.

well try to wrap your head around 2 different personalities and conscious minds being merged together... things change, get over it.

do i think Anders made some terrible choices? YES, but it doesnt change the fact anders is no longer anders, and is neither is justice. deal with it or sit here cying.




and honestly the ending is nothing less than i expected from a bioware game... and if anything it was predictable.

if youve been playing bioware games long you know they are going to put some dramatic choices in at the end where nothing seems like the right choice and you have to pick the lesser of two evils and so on.

its really predictable at this point honestly.


have half of you been living under a rock?