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my rogue class observations and questions


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#1
thementat

thementat
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 I have been playing DAO for 2-3 weeks on the xbox console. I initially found the game to be a overwhelming with all the options and game mechanics (talents, skills, character build, etc.). After playing for a few weeks, posting a bunch of questions on this forum, and reading many articles, I have learned a great deal. I have since taken a long break but intend on getting back to the game soon. I have restarted the game 2-3 times (haven't gone too far into the game - killed Redcliff walking corpses and did some of the "Dalish" forest) as I realized how to better combat, use tactics, apply skill/talent points, and spending money wisely. I play a rogue class character as I find it the most interesting class, mostly due to the fact that it is not "head to head" bashing like a warrior, but rather flanking the opponent in order to take advantage of a rogue's class abilities.

I intend on taking duel wielding and assassin specialization. I am going to restart the game (again) as I accidently took bard specialization (and spent a specialization point by mistake) and didn't realize it until much further on (I don't have a save to revert to). However, before I do start playing again, I still have a few questions and comments I would like to hear people thoughts about. Here are a few general questions/comments:
  • I dual wield daggers. However, I'm still unclear about the following:
    * Dagger(s) is the weapon of choice of a rogue, mostly due to the fact that its attacks are fast and dexterity adds to its damage.
    * Do you end up doing more damage with two daggers rather than a single dagger (early in the game it may not be so)?
    * Major benefit of duel wielding (not necessarily daggers) is that you can have an enchantment for each weapon, thus having two enchantments rather than one for a single weapon.
    * Does each dagger has its own independent chance to hit (or is the "dice roll" applies to both of them)?
    Does each dagger has its own chance of critical hit (similar to the above)? 
  • I'm still not so clear about difference between back stabbing and critical hit. What's the difference?
  • I read somewhere (perhaps in the DAO wiki website) that backstabbing effect (damage and perhaps critical hit?) improves the greater the flanking is (the closer you are to the real "behind" of the opponent). Is this correct?
  • For specialization, I intend on having duel weilding and assassin (maximizing personal melee effectiveness). I intend on having bard/ranger for Lili, and even for her, I intend on putting more emphasis dexterity due to her being my archer. I'll put a few points for cunning as well, because she is going to be my expert when it comes to disarming traps and picking locks, so I would need that in order to access higher skill level.
  • Rapid aim - as its name suggests, the rate of fire using the bow/crossbow is increased. There is a rapid aim sustained talent as well as bows with this attribute. Is my understanding of the following correct:
    * Rapid aim sustained ability CANNOT critically hit.
    * Rapid aim bow attribute increases the firing rate but can still deal critical hits (unless rapid aim sustained ability is active).
  • For the above rapid aim issue, does a rapid aim sustain ability and rapid aim bow stack? Meaning using both will yield higher firing rate than either one on its own?
  • Evasion talent - does the 20% chance of evading occurs AFTER "being hit" (after normal attack/defense score calculation) or is it added to the base defense score somehow? I read there is an animation effect which will actually spoil your rogue's attack. Is this going to take place EACH time I evade or only on those 20% cases?
  • I intend on maximizing coercion (benefits from cunning) followed by combat training.
Here are a few rogue specific game mechanics and playing style questions/comments:
  • I personally don't play using stealth. In my personal opinion, it is an overpowering element. Unlike games like Oblivion, which you actually sneak behind an enemy, in DAO it is equivalent to invisibility, and a powerful one at that. You don't really sneak, you just turn "gray invisible" and walk directly towards the enemy. For me, it is overpowering and spoils the fun.
  • There are endless dicussions about the optimal rogue character build. I believe that there are multiple good builds and one build is not better than the other. It depends on the manner in which a person likes to play.
  • When it comes to dexterity versus strength (or cunning, assuming you have lethality), I think I prefer evading attacks more often than dealing more damage. While strength (or cunning with the lethality talent) deals more damage than dexterity, dexterity still contributes to damage with piercing weapons (to a lesser extent though) but also contributes to defense and physical resistence (unlike cunning). And here it really depends on the manner in which each person plays. One can argue that dealing more damage will kill the opponent more quickly, thus the target will have fewer swings at you. On the other hand, one can argue that evading attacks more often will results in less time wasted drinking healing potions or suffering side effects (stuns/paralysis), thus allowing you to continue damaging the target. I think both arguments are valid and it simply depends on the manner each player likes to play.
  • Initially I thought about giving cunning/dexterity equal points when leveling. However, I seem to have changed my mind. The reason is that the dexterity attribute has more advantages (at least early in the game). I prefer evading an attack rather than dealing more damage. I'm thinking about putting more in dexterity in general, but also putting a few points in cunning/strength just in order to satisfy armor/weapon/skill/talent prerequisites.
  • Without lethality, dexterity is definitely better than cunning when it comes to damage as a single dexterity attribute point will increase damage more than armor piercing for a single cunning attribute point. And the damage will be dealt always and won't come into effect only when the opponent is armored.
  • When using active talents in melee, I find myself using only dirty fighting so far. I only use other talents for "fun", thus I don't intend on spending much attribute points on willpower, if at all. Perhaps this will change later on, if I will have multiple sustained abilities and will require more stamina for dirty fighting or other high level talents when they become available. Do other players find themselves doing the same or is it just me?
  • I use light armor and don't intend on using any other, not because of the fatigue, but mostly because I do not want to increase my hostility level and spend attribute points on strength rather than dexterity.
  • I intend on taking lethality mostly for the increased critical hit chance. However, since I am going to spend a few points on cunning (satisfying skill/talent prerequisites), I will also gain a few more points of damage as cunning is likely to be higher than strength.


#2
thementat

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I'm baffled. Almost 24 hours and not a single response. Was I dead right on all the issues?

#3
Viktor McCury

Viktor McCury
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* Does each dagger has its own independent chance to hit (or is the "dice roll" applies to both of them)?
* Does each dagger has its own chance of critical hit (similar to the above)?

Yeah.

I'm still not so clear about difference between back stabbing and critical hit. What's the difference?

None. Backstabbing gives automatic critical hits

For specialization, I intend on having duel weilding and assassin (maximizing personal melee effectiveness). I intend on having bard/ranger for Lili, and even for her, I intend on putting more emphasis dexterity due to her being my archer. I'll put a few points for cunning as well, because she is going to be my expert when it comes to disarming traps and picking locks, so I would need that in order to access higher skill level.

I would go for Assassin/Duelist. Let Bard and Ranger specialiations to Leliana.

# * Rapid aim sustained ability CANNOT critically hit.
* Rapid aim bow attribute increases the firing rate but can still deal critical hits (unless rapid aim sustained ability is active).

You're right.

# Evasion talent - does the 20% chance of evading occurs AFTER "being hit" (after normal attack/defense score calculation) or is it added to the base defense score somehow? I read there is an animation effect which will actually spoil your rogue's attack. Is this going to take place EACH time I evade or only on those 20% cases?

If you'll play as a dual wield rogue forget about evasion.

#4
TheBigMatt90

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1
You will do much more with two, due to the increased attack speed, needing two for your dual weapon abilities (Momentum is a must)
Enchant your offhand with spell resist/physical resist etc, pretty sure you dont get the elemental damage from runes in offhand
Yes, they are totally seperate
Again

2 Backstabbing is an instant critical hit

3 Never heard that before, as long as you are flanking you will backstab, thus critting, not sure how that would cause more damage

4 Dual weild isnt a spec, its just a skillset. Go with duellist or bard. If you are getting your cunning higher then bard is excellent, if not go with duellist to be a very tough character. Ranged damage is split evenly between dex and str/cun, so if you give leliana Lethality and then stack her cun/make her even dex/cun, her song of courage will put your damage through the roof. It also helps with lockpicking etc

5 Yes, rapid aim skill cannot crittically hit, and is totally rubbish later in the game
Items with rapid aim still allow you to crit, and reduce your shooting time by 0.3 seconds each, to a maximum of 3.0 secs, however the gloves from Return to Ostagar reduce it by the full 3.0s. If you get a decent amount of rapid aim gear dont use the Rapid Aim skill.

7 I think it is afterwards, it does stop your attack animation so if i were you I would avoid it as you will be backstabbing = not getting hit

8 I would go combat training 2, coercion 1, then get cb training to 3, coercion to 3, then finish combat training