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[Cybermortis]

Balvale wrote...

See as how these story events are probably setting up a monumental change in Dragon Age universe, it's a little presumptuous to assume Bioware could fit an entire era into one game.

So I should buy a game that does nothing but act as an advertisement for the next game?

Sorry, but even if that was the intention the game has to stand on its own merits and be capable of being played without reference to something that may or may not be made in X years time. It also has to leave you wanting to go back to that world, to see how things have changed.

DA2 does none of this. As a stand alone game it is, at best, mediocre and at worst a shameless, lazy, attempt to cash in. As a prequel for the next game it falls flat too. I have no interest in going back to this world right now. Aside from anything else nothing changed in within the current game, the ending is the same regardless so...how exactly can we go into the next game expecting to see the decisions in DA2 resulting in any difference to how the next game would unfold? At least in ME the decisions you made in one game had viable and noticable effects on the world in ME2, and (if Bioware is to be believed) will still have an impact in ME3. Heck, I played ME all the way through long after getting ME2, and the difference with importing a saved character from ME to ME2 was remarkable - from the conversations you had with people even to the presence of some quests.

In DA2 the events in DAO have...no effect on the world. Heck the decisions you make inside the game have no impact on the end results. Why should I expect DA3 to be any different? In fact why should I even bother or be required to play DA2 when your decisions can't possibly effect the story of DA3?

Sorry, but while the intent might have been to set things up for a third game or more likely DLC as well. The simple fact is that all but the most vocal 'This is the best game ever, so take that you NooBs!' players would have to agree that if they make DA3. You will not be required to play DA2 before hand to get the full experience or full plot of that game.

[Dragoonlordz]

Cybermortis wrote...

Balvale wrote...

See as how these story events are probably setting up a monumental change in Dragon Age universe, it's a little presumptuous to assume Bioware could fit an entire era into one game.

So I should buy a game that does nothing but act as an advertisement for the next game?

Sorry, but even if that was the intention the game has to stand on its own merits and be capable of being played without reference to something that may or may not be made in X years time. It also has to leave you wanting to go back to that world, to see how things have changed.

DA2 does none of this. As a stand alone game it is, at best, mediocre and at worst a shameless, lazy, attempt to cash in. As a prequel for the next game it falls flat too. I have no interest in going back to this world right now. Aside from anything else nothing changed in within the current game, the ending is the same regardless so...how exactly can we go into the next game expecting to see the decisions in DA2 resulting in any difference to how the next game would unfold? At least in ME the decisions you made in one game had viable and noticable effects on the world in ME2, and (if Bioware is to be believed) will still have an impact in ME3. Heck, I played ME all the way through long after getting ME2, and the difference with importing a saved character from ME to ME2 was remarkable - from the conversations you had with people even to the presence of some quests.

In DA2 the events in DAO have...no effect on the world. Heck the decisions you make inside the game have no impact on the end results. Why should I expect DA3 to be any different? In fact why should I even bother or be required to play DA2 when your decisions can't possibly effect the story of DA3?

Sorry, but while the intent might have been to set things up for a third game or more likely DLC as well. The simple fact is that all but the most vocal 'This is the best game ever, so take that you NooBs!' players would have to agree that if they make DA3. You will not be required to play DA2 before hand to get the full experience or full plot of that game.

Hmm not sure about that, the whole massive changes on import to ME2, it was in reality one of the biggest failings imo, examples of Rachni Queen and Citadal council spring to mind..

Everything else you mention I do agree with though.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 mars 2011 - 02:39 .

[Talladarr]

MaesterSeymour wrote...

2. Lack Of Content. Bioware you have charged us for the price of a full game, and given us half of one. The story in this game is not concluded, the game itself did not even run a 10 year span. All we got was a battle with mages and then "he disappeared" ending. And do you know what makes this worse? You are going to charge us extortionate amounts for DLC, just to play the rest of the game we already paid money for! With Dragon Age: Origins we at least had a completed story arc, and for the most part the DLC was mainly spin off quests. I feel cheated. A game should be a full one, completely the story Arc. Not half of a game, and the rest to be released in overly priced DLC.

I'm nto sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I figured I'd throw it out there. Bioware was NOT in a rush to release this game. Originally I believe(not positive) the game would have had another year of development. However, EA pushed for an early release and shirked next to all the money from the testing department. As a result, we have what you see now. EA played no part in the actual development of the game, all they did was see a business deal and hopped on the band wagon.
My point is this. Bioware is not the issue with the early release and overall low quality of this game. If you want to blame a company, blame EA. That said, I heard rumors that the reason was that EA said they'd stop funding the production if it wasn't released WAY ahead of time. Thankyou, that is all I have to say on this matter.

[MaesterSeymour]

I agree completely with that comment Cybermortis.

[MaesterSeymour]

Excuse my double post but I can't comment with regards to Mass Effect yet. I bought ME2 yesterday and have yet to play it. I didn't play the first either. But I hear great things about it, hopefully will restore my faith in Bioware (although EA may well be the reason DA2 fell short)

[Talladarr]

I don't know what changed between DAO and DA2, but EA has become a very poor gaming company

[Cybermortis]

Some examples of the differences if you loaded a saved ME game to ME2 I can think of were;

The appearance, and small quest from, the undercover officer you met on Noveria (sp?) if you helped her in ME. You can also talk to her afterwards and learn something about her and her history. What you learn is minor stuff, but more than I found out about the major characters in DA2.

Your 'Fan' from the Citadel reappears as part of a new quest. (Slightly bugged for me, since he insists I stuck a gun in his face - which I didn't).

While the Rachni don't appear in the game, you can run into an Assari who has a message from the Queen if you didn't kill her in ME. No quest, but again you can learn more about her and the Rachni. Just as importantly we are given a strong hint that the Rachni will probably play a role in ME3.

If you saved the council and Anderson was chosen to be on the council Shepard can be reinstated as a Spectre. What impact this might have on ME3 is open to conjecture, but within ME2 it can be referenced twice during quests. The first time is a simple change of dialogue from 'You think your going to run in a former Spectre' to 'You think your going to run in a Spectre'. The second time this is noted is during Thanes personal quest - where the fact you are a Spectre can be used to your advantage.

The greetings you get from your love interest (if you had one and they are still alive) is slightly different.

If you finished Kali's personal quest in ME you have the option to note this when you first meet.

If the Asari was allowed to live on Theros (sp?) she will return in place of a different quest giver.

If the Asari working in Sarens lab is allowed to live she returns during the 'Recruit the Krogen' quest.

The decisions and results of the decisions you made in ME are frequently noted in the spoken news stations on the Citadel.


These are all minor differences, but they are all things that give greater immersion to the Mass Effect universe. In DA2 you get a line or two of 'oh, this happened before' and that's it. No impact at all - characters from DAO who died returning from the dead doesn't help either.

[Sheonite]

Someone make a, "Leave BioWare Alone!" video! Maybe EA will listen and won't sell any more polished turds.

Probably not, would be funny though. ^^

Modifié par Sheonite, 25 mars 2011 - 02:49 .

[MaesterSeymour]

EA have been a poor gaming company for a while now

[bluewolv1970]

Cybermortis wrote...

Some examples of the differences if you loaded a saved ME game to ME2 I can think of were;

The appearance, and small quest from, the undercover officer you met on Noveria (sp?) if you helped her in ME. You can also talk to her afterwards and learn something about her and her history. What you learn is minor stuff, but more than I found out about the major characters in DA2.

Your 'Fan' from the Citadel reappears as part of a new quest. (Slightly bugged for me, since he insists I stuck a gun in his face - which I didn't).

While the Rachni don't appear in the game, you can run into an Assari who has a message from the Queen if you didn't kill her in ME. No quest, but again you can learn more about her and the Rachni. Just as importantly we are given a strong hint that the Rachni will probably play a role in ME3.

If you saved the council and Anderson was chosen to be on the council Shepard can be reinstated as a Spectre. What impact this might have on ME3 is open to conjecture, but within ME2 it can be referenced twice during quests. The first time is a simple change of dialogue from 'You think your going to run in a former Spectre' to 'You think your going to run in a Spectre'. The second time this is noted is during Thanes personal quest - where the fact you are a Spectre can be used to your advantage.

The greetings you get from your love interest (if you had one and they are still alive) is slightly different.

If you finished Kali's personal quest in ME you have the option to note this when you first meet.

If the Asari was allowed to live on Theros (sp?) she will return in place of a different quest giver.

If the Asari working in Sarens lab is allowed to live she returns during the 'Recruit the Krogen' quest.

The decisions and results of the decisions you made in ME are frequently noted in the spoken news stations on the Citadel.


These are all minor differences, but they are all things that give greater immersion to the Mass Effect universe. In DA2 you get a line or two of 'oh, this happened before' and that's it. No impact at all - characters from DAO who died returning from the dead doesn't help either.

if you keep Wrex alive he is, you know, basically ruling the Krogan...The Spectre in LOTSB mention your being reinstated as a Spectre, Helena Blake appears if kept alive, Fist appears if kept alive, Mordin mentions Captain Karehee,  MIranda refrences both your background and psych profile form ME1, there is a whole quest based on cevoring wreckage from the Normandy in ME1...

[1Man army]

I have yet to finish the game but so far I'm very disappointed. I've enjoyed all BioWare games since kotor except this one.

I think EA screwed up. The problem is when you customize games to fit the likely majority
of gamers, instead of doing what you believe in and what the fans want. It usually ends up being a huge disappointment. Unfortunately it's all about money.

Just hope ME3 delivers.

[Cybermortis]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Cybermortis wrote...

Some examples of the differences if you loaded a saved ME game to ME2 I can think of were;

The appearance, and small quest from, the undercover officer you met on Noveria (sp?) if you helped her in ME. You can also talk to her afterwards and learn something about her and her history. What you learn is minor stuff, but more than I found out about the major characters in DA2.

Your 'Fan' from the Citadel reappears as part of a new quest. (Slightly bugged for me, since he insists I stuck a gun in his face - which I didn't).

While the Rachni don't appear in the game, you can run into an Assari who has a message from the Queen if you didn't kill her in ME. No quest, but again you can learn more about her and the Rachni. Just as importantly we are given a strong hint that the Rachni will probably play a role in ME3.

If you saved the council and Anderson was chosen to be on the council Shepard can be reinstated as a Spectre. What impact this might have on ME3 is open to conjecture, but within ME2 it can be referenced twice during quests. The first time is a simple change of dialogue from 'You think your going to run in a former Spectre' to 'You think your going to run in a Spectre'. The second time this is noted is during Thanes personal quest - where the fact you are a Spectre can be used to your advantage.

The greetings you get from your love interest (if you had one and they are still alive) is slightly different.

If you finished Kali's personal quest in ME you have the option to note this when you first meet.

If the Asari was allowed to live on Theros (sp?) she will return in place of a different quest giver.

If the Asari working in Sarens lab is allowed to live she returns during the 'Recruit the Krogen' quest.

The decisions and results of the decisions you made in ME are frequently noted in the spoken news stations on the Citadel.


These are all minor differences, but they are all things that give greater immersion to the Mass Effect universe. In DA2 you get a line or two of 'oh, this happened before' and that's it. No impact at all - characters from DAO who died returning from the dead doesn't help either.

if you keep Wrex alive he is, you know, basically ruling the Krogan...The Spectre in LOTSB mention your being reinstated as a Spectre, Helena Blake appears if kept alive, Fist appears if kept alive, Mordin mentions Captain Karehee,  MIranda refrences both your background and psych profile form ME1, there is a whole quest based on cevoring wreckage from the Normandy in ME1...

I don't (unfortunatly) have any of the DLC for ME2 that were not released via the Cerberus network just yet. I'm in two minds as to if I intend to rectify this or await for the game of the year edition I expect to be released around October/November - just before ME3 is due to be released.

Yes I missed some of the changes, its late so I should be forgiven 

The Normandy Wreckage quest was a DLC released through the Cerberous network, and pans out exactly the same. the only difference a saved game has is in a flashback to the character who died on Virmire. Without a saved game this will always be the character of the same gender as Shepard (Aden for a male Shep, Ashley for the Female shep). With a saved game the flashback is for whoever died in your playthrough.

[bluewolv1970]

Cybermortis wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Cybermortis wrote...

Some examples of the differences if you loaded a saved ME game to ME2 I can think of were;

The appearance, and small quest from, the undercover officer you met on Noveria (sp?) if you helped her in ME. You can also talk to her afterwards and learn something about her and her history. What you learn is minor stuff, but more than I found out about the major characters in DA2.

Your 'Fan' from the Citadel reappears as part of a new quest. (Slightly bugged for me, since he insists I stuck a gun in his face - which I didn't).

While the Rachni don't appear in the game, you can run into an Assari who has a message from the Queen if you didn't kill her in ME. No quest, but again you can learn more about her and the Rachni. Just as importantly we are given a strong hint that the Rachni will probably play a role in ME3.

If you saved the council and Anderson was chosen to be on the council Shepard can be reinstated as a Spectre. What impact this might have on ME3 is open to conjecture, but within ME2 it can be referenced twice during quests. The first time is a simple change of dialogue from 'You think your going to run in a former Spectre' to 'You think your going to run in a Spectre'. The second time this is noted is during Thanes personal quest - where the fact you are a Spectre can be used to your advantage.

The greetings you get from your love interest (if you had one and they are still alive) is slightly different.

If you finished Kali's personal quest in ME you have the option to note this when you first meet.

If the Asari was allowed to live on Theros (sp?) she will return in place of a different quest giver.

If the Asari working in Sarens lab is allowed to live she returns during the 'Recruit the Krogen' quest.

The decisions and results of the decisions you made in ME are frequently noted in the spoken news stations on the Citadel.


These are all minor differences, but they are all things that give greater immersion to the Mass Effect universe. In DA2 you get a line or two of 'oh, this happened before' and that's it. No impact at all - characters from DAO who died returning from the dead doesn't help either.

if you keep Wrex alive he is, you know, basically ruling the Krogan...The Spectre in LOTSB mention your being reinstated as a Spectre, Helena Blake appears if kept alive, Fist appears if kept alive, Mordin mentions Captain Karehee,  MIranda refrences both your background and psych profile form ME1, there is a whole quest based on cevoring wreckage from the Normandy in ME1...

I don't (unfortunatly) have any of the DLC for ME2 that were not released via the Cerberus network just yet. I'm in two minds as to if I intend to rectify this or await for the game of the year edition I expect to be released around October/November - just before ME3 is due to be released.

Yes I missed some of the changes, its late so I should be forgiven 

The Normandy Wreckage quest was a DLC released through the Cerberous network, and pans out exactly the same. the only difference a saved game has is in a flashback to the character who died on Virmire. Without a saved game this will always be the character of the same gender as Shepard (Aden for a male Shep, Ashley for the Female shep). With a saved game the flashback is for whoever died in your playthrough.

oh please do not miss my point, I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly, and simply adding to the list you created...

[maegi46]

To the OP, you are indeed trolling. Many complaint threads exist, you could have simply posted criticism or concerns in one of those rather than making yet another I hate DA2 thread. Your biggest problem is comparing DA2 to DA:O, it is not an dshould not feel like the same game. This is 2011 dude.

[calis_riakel]

Completely agree with OP. Huge disappointment and i wont be rushing to buy another Bioware game anytime soon. ME3 will be the telling sign for me as to whether or not Bioware are still in control of the production decisions at Bioware or whether they're just being told to shut up and do as EA says in how their games are produced and released.

[MaesterSeymour]

maegi46 wrote...

To the OP, you are indeed trolling. Many complaint threads exist, you could have simply posted criticism or concerns in one of those rather than making yet another I hate DA2 thread. Your biggest problem is comparing DA2 to DA:O, it is not an dshould not feel like the same game. This is 2011 dude.

Im not trolling. I wanted to make valid points, and I wanted my own thread for it because I did not want my views to be lost in a long thread. Many people here agree, if you have an issue simply ignore it. At the end of the day this is helping Bioware, not offending them.

[Cybermortis]

maegi46 wrote...

To the OP, you are indeed trolling. Many complaint threads exist, you could have simply posted criticism or concerns in one of those rather than making yet another I hate DA2 thread. Your biggest problem is comparing DA2 to DA:O, it is not an dshould not feel like the same game. This is 2011 dude.

Both games are set in the same world, one is a sequel to the other and indeed is meant to start and exist at least partly at the same period. We can even import saved games from the first to the second game.

Sorry, but claiming that we shouldn't compare the two games doesn't stand up to logic. If this had been (as one person put it) 'Dragon Age; Kirkwall' it would be a fair point - much as comparing, say, Knights of the old republic to Jedi Knight would be daft. But this was marketed and named as a direct sequel for DAO and therefore it is reasonable to compare the two. Much as it is reasonable to compare Mass Effect with Mass Effect 2.

[Cody211282]

maegi46 wrote...

To the OP, you are indeed trolling. Many complaint threads exist, you could have simply posted criticism or concerns in one of those rather than making yet another I hate DA2 thread. Your biggest problem is comparing DA2 to DA:O, it is not an dshould not feel like the same game. This is 2011 dude.

No your the troll here. By your logic if someone doesn't like what you do they are a troll, good god really?

[MaesterSeymour]

Some people clearly do not know the definition of internet troll.

[fallingseraph]

MaesterSeymour wrote...

I need to vent my frustrations and my opinion about this game, im not expecting everyone to agree but I do hope im not the only one that feels this way. This isnt trolling, im stating my concerns with the overall product.

1. Overused dungeons. Pretty much the worst example I have ever seen of reused dungeons and reused environments. Its terrible. You have taken a giant leap backwards on this one. How did this game end up like this, when even DOA had far more dungeon/environment variety?

2. Lack Of Content. Bioware you have charged us for the price of a full game, and given us half of one. The story in this game is not concluded, the game itself did not even run a 10 year span. All we got was a battle with mages and then "he disappeared" ending. And do you know what makes this worse? You are going to charge us extortionate amounts for DLC, just to play the rest of the game we already paid money for! With Dragon Age: Origins we at least had a completed story arc, and for the most part the DLC was mainly spin off quests. I feel cheated. A game should be a full one, completely the story Arc. Not half of a game, and the rest to be released in overly priced DLC.

3. Simplified Combat. You managed to take another huge step back. 

4. Bugs. While i realise this wont apply to everyone, I had a variety of bugs. From broken quests, repeated cut scenes, even my ending was bugged? I romanced Merrill and nobody else, and someone how I ran off with Anders.

5. Restricted World. Whilst DOA gave us a huge, sprawling and unique world to explore, in DA2 you are constantly stuck within the same city. Repeated textures and repeated mansions/houses make this even more boring. Denerim in DOA seemed far more varied and populated than Kirkwall did, and that is just one of many places in DOA.

6. Decisions make no true impact on the story. Yeah you get to make decisions, and yeah it does kinda have an impact. But the impact is barely noticeable. Hardly anything will change in the game based on your actions. In DOA the choices you made had a huge impact.

7. Companions/Romances.  While some companions are memorable, others are not at all. And whats with Anders being the only NPC able to act as healer? The romances are extremely simplified when compared to DOA and also why the need to travel to each persons home to interact with them? Especially when said person is already in your party?

Whats shocking is that besides this hefty list of flaws I did still get some enjoyment out of it.

So there it is. Ive said my piece, some I hope you can agree with. Its honestly no wonder the users are rating this game so poorly, and how you managed to get high scores from critics is astonishing. Im saddened to see Dragon Age turn out this way when Origins was so great. 

I mentioned that and a Mod closed my post.

Prepare to be moderated as well, they don't like their ugly truth.

[JPR1964]

maegi46 wrote...

To the OP, you are indeed trolling. Many complaint threads exist, you could have simply posted criticism or concerns in one of those rather than making yet another I hate DA2 thread. Your biggest problem is comparing DA2 to DA:O, it is not an dshould not feel like the same game. This is 2011 dude.

Everyone is the troll of someone else : guess who you are?

[Lulia]

I agree with all points, except one, and then i'd like to add one...

I don't agree that the story wasn't concluded. What happened at the end, concluded the storyline we were given.

The crap hit the fan and we dealt with the bad guys and then had to slip away for fear of being blamed. All the secrets come out and we kick butt and the next game will be affected by what happened.

That is what happened in DA:O - crap hits the fan, we kill the bad guy and slip away.

It's feels unfinished because it was insignificant and we didn't impact it, not because it didn't actually conclude.

I have no idea how they could conclude it anymore with DLC except for revealing where we disappeared to or maybe elaborating on what the Grey Wardens were doing in Kirkwall...

The impact of what happened will be DA3 i assume.

As for Anders, well i think the plot has more impact if you are actually fond of him and he is an important member of your group.

[MaesterSeymour]

Well if you want any sort of healer, you have to have Anders in your group. Which is annoying because I didn't like Anders. Why leave out the healing tree for Merrill?

[Dubya75]

MaesterSeymour wrote...

2. Lack Of Content. Bioware you have charged us for the price of a full game, and given us half of one. The story in this game is not concluded, the game itself did not even run a 10 year span. All we got was a battle with mages and then "he disappeared" ending. And do you know what makes this worse? You are going to charge us extortionate amounts for DLC, just to play the rest of the game we already paid money for! With Dragon Age: Origins we at least had a completed story arc, and for the most part the DLC was mainly spin off quests. I feel cheated. A game should be a full one, completely the story Arc. Not half of a game, and the rest to be released in overly priced DLC.

3. Simplified Combat. You managed to take another huge step back. 

6. Decisions make no true impact on the story. Yeah you get to make decisions, and yeah it does kinda have an impact. But the impact is barely noticeable. Hardly anything will change in the game based on your actions. In DOA the choices you made had a huge impact.

Point 2 - You may have missed the part where game developers decide what is a full game and what isn't?

Point 3 - Not surprisingly, you omitted any reasoning behind your "simplified combat" claim. How is this in any way simpler than in Origins? 
Please explain.

Point 6 - If you missed all of the many choices in the game (that does actually have impact), you simply didn't do it right. Try again. This time, pay attention.

Modifié par Dubya75, 25 mars 2011 - 01:28 .

[dannythefool]

bluewolv1970 wrote...
you could wipe out an entire clan of dalish elves, destroy a circle of mages, allow redcliff to be destroyed, desttroy the urn of sacred ashes, decide who rules Orzamar, determine who is ruler of Ferelden etc... yeah NO choices

You can wipe out an entire clan of Dalish elves in DA2. This may or may not include people you caused to go there earlier in the game.

You can kill the Arishok and all Qunari in Kirkwall or let them go. Or you can duel the Arishok first.

You can install a new captain of the guard. And that can make a difference in the late game too.

In a manner of speaking, you can determine who rules Kirkwall, even though there are not that many different outcomes (read: two). 

I don't see a huge difference in the kind of choices the game gives you. DA2 seems to have more smaller, personal choices. I can choose if someone is made tranquil, possessed by a demon, or goes elsewhere to study and develop his powers. He might even write me a letter later. I can see a friend marry for the second time and be happy or prevent it. Quite a few of the choices in DA2 also involve saying no to a quest so that someone may still live later in the game. If you just skip through dialogue and accept all quests, you wouldn't notice. 

I hope that choice in an RPG must not always involve big titles or the holiest of relics. Some posts here almost make it sound that way. This is a story about Hawke. Logically, many of your choices will primarily affect Hawke, or the effects that we see, we mostly see from Hawke's point of view.