373 réponses à ce sujet

[Erode_The_Soul]

What scares me is that Bioware is simply not going to excell in the genres they seem to be aiming for, and may end up going under if they keep going in that direction. Bioware makes fantastic RPGs, but they make....underwhelming (for lack of a better word) action games. That's not a terrible thing until the action oriented market becomes your focus, which it now seems to be based on several interviews and the overall "feel" of DA2.

Bioware is a powerhouse in the RPG market, and will likely put up a good fight in the MMO market, but I feel like they are a kitten in a tiger cage when dealing with the action market. Attempting to find a happy medium between action and RPG is fine, but this interview makes me think that RPG is no longer a.....desired goal, to put it delicately. I hope that's not the case, but I'm fearful that it is

[Sandmanifest]

Seitur wrote...

Well seems it is as I feared. Developer team at BW have totally diffrent vision of their future "rpg's" than games I would like to play. Shame really as few BW games was one of best games I played in my life (including other genre games).
This is not an option with DA2 , if I want arcade , flashy and simplified/streamlined kind of play I choose games like Heavenly Sword over some weird action adventure limited rpg-like game DA2 was.

So good buy Bioware , I'll check every now and then if you have changed your strategy and if you have changed your developers.
If your next games will follow DA2 steps I won't buy them.

You lost consumer, I don't want to lose more time&money hoping for things you don't want to deliver anymore.

Same here. This interview was like a nail in the coffin for me. I have no more hope that they're going to change direction or even slow down. It's just more BUTTON AWESOME BUTTON AWESOME C-C-C-CONNECTEDD!!1!1!! from here on out it seems. I mean, I'll read reviews of their next games and whatnot and I'll try one out if it gains notoriety for actually being a BioWare quality rpg god forbid.

Can't believe my FAVORITE game complany, the one who got me HOOKED on rpg's, sucker punched me and flipped me off walking out. Eh, I don't like them anymore. I'm done. Screw this.

[Persephone]

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

[MonkeyLungs]

Bioware needs to make more money and faster, for whatever reason. They just need more money from us and they can't take 4+ years to make games anymore. Once TOR is out you will see expansion every year or so (maybe sooner) for that game. 2 - 21/2 years development cycle for single player rpg's might be all they can afford anymore.

[ToJKa1]

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

Just like what Bethesda did Fallout 3. I'm getting fat with all the popcorn munching, and there's still Skyrim and ME3 releases to go this year...

[this isnt my name]

Scorpgul wrote...

I just read it and its the most ridiculous piece of **** ever. Mister Laidlaw is happy with EVERYTHING fans hate about Dragon Age 2 and the only reason he seems to be giving for the changes is 'Innovation' Why not just accept that the decisions you made are WRONG??? At the end of the day its us gamers that make you what you are, just accept it goddamn it and stop trying to cover it up by saying you made those changes to appeal to a bigger audience blabla WE ARE THE AUDIENCE

Sounds like Peter Molyneux, and we saw how his games ended up.

*thinks about fable 3*
*shudders*

Its a shame MR ladlaw will drag others down, I like where this story is going and want to see it till the end, and I like the artstyle/(sometimes visuals) and the music. They can all be good but that wont save a game with gameplay like DA2.

[Jitter]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

What scares me is that Bioware is simply not going to excell in the genres they seem to be aiming for, and may end up going under if they keep going in that direction. Bioware makes fantastic RPGs, but they make....underwhelming (for lack of a better word) action games. That's not a terrible thing until the action oriented market becomes your focus, which it now seems to be based on several interviews and the overall "feel" of DA2.

Bioware is a powerhouse in the RPG market, and will likely put up a good fight in the MMO market, but I feel like they are a kitten in a tiger cage when dealing with the action market. Attempting to find a happy medium between action and RPG is fine, but this interview makes me think that RPG is no longer a.....desired goal, to put it delicately. I hope that's not the case, but I'm fearful that it is

Mc Donalds tried to make Pizza
...same thing.. same outcome

[Persephone]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

Just like what Bethesda did Fallout 3. I'm getting fat with all the popcorn munching, and there's still Skyrim and ME3 releases to go this year...

Don't forget The Witcher 2. But given how this fanbase has been behaving, the day ME3 gets released, this forum will explode.

[MonkeyLungs]

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

You enjoy it though. Also 'melodrama' is a quite underused term, I think you should make sure that every post you make has that word in it. You have a responsibility to the youth to ensure their exposure to the word. Keep up the good fight.

[Merced652]

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

I really hope you don't place yourself upon some pedestal of righteousness and non-trollery because you're as bad if not as bad any troll who has trolled these forums. Also, your trolling is just bad, if it were funny i might even encourage it. I'll happily give you lessons if you want, otherwise find a hole to crawl in to. 

[this isnt my name]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

Just like what Bethesda did Fallout 3. I'm getting fat with all the popcorn munching, and there's still Skyrim and ME3 releases to go this year...

ME3 dosent have a person leading the project that is in denial and refuses to see the flaws.

[ToJKa1]

Merced652 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

I really hope you don't place yourself upon some pedestal of righteousness and non-trollery because you're as bad if not as bad any troll who has trolled these forums. Also, your trolling is just bad, if it were funny i might even encourage it. I'll happily give you lessons if you want, otherwise find a hole to crawl in to. 

So... people who like the game are trolls, people who don't like the game are trolls, and people who think both sides take it to ridiculous extremes are trolls?

[Merced652]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

I really hope you don't place yourself upon some pedestal of righteousness and non-trollery because you're as bad if not as bad any troll who has trolled these forums. Also, your trolling is just bad, if it were funny i might even encourage it. I'll happily give you lessons if you want, otherwise find a hole to crawl in to. 

So... people who like the game are trolls, people who don't like the game are trolls, and people who think both sides take it to ridiculous extremes are trolls?

According to this forum, yes, everyone is a troll. What cave did you venture out of recently?

[ink07]

ToJKa1 wrote...

So... people who like the game are trolls, people who don't like the game are trolls, and people who think both sides take it to ridiculous extremes are trolls?

Yep. Don't forget Bioware, they are the worst trolls of all.

[Persephone]

Merced652 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

I really hope you don't place yourself upon some pedestal of righteousness and non-trollery because you're as bad if not as bad any troll who has trolled these forums. Also, your trolling is just bad, if it were funny i might even encourage it. I'll happily give you lessons if you want, otherwise find a hole to crawl in to. 

I don't think liking DA2 is trolling. Or defending it. The above however is not just rude, it's exactly why I think Bioware's fanbase is the most entitled one I have ever encountered. And I've encountered many over the past 15 years.

[Ascarel]

I don't know if you guys knew about or belonged to the same online community back in 2001-2003, but seeing the forums all aflame like this, in this context, brings back memories of the Deus Ex schism that I witnessed (and sorta been part of). Really. It's the same thing all over again. After a Game of the Year title, Ion Storm put out a stinker that completely divided the community (which was a true niche, hardcore and devoted, with its share of talented modders). The lead designer of sequel, Harvey Smith, was as dismissive of the successful elements of the first game (which was in effect Warren Spector's baby), in almost the same terms, as Laidlaw is now, and he was also as convinced of his own great ideas. One major difference of course is that 10 years ago, Ion Storm got shut down by Eidos soon later, while Bioware has a more solid foundation with EA. 


But still. It's the same thing all over again. The hardcore who feel betrayed are using the same kinds of arguments to voice their disappointment as in that other community ten years ago. 

Oh, and yeah, they were, as they are now, completely right.  But that wasn't my main point here. 

Modifié par Ascarel, 25 mars 2011 - 05:54 .

[Persephone]

ink07 wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

So... people who like the game are trolls, people who don't like the game are trolls, and people who think both sides take it to ridiculous extremes are trolls?

Yep. Don't forget Bioware, they are the worst trolls of all.

That made me LOL.

[ToJKa1]

Merced652 wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

I really hope you don't place yourself upon some pedestal of righteousness and non-trollery because you're as bad if not as bad any troll who has trolled these forums. Also, your trolling is just bad, if it were funny i might even encourage it. I'll happily give you lessons if you want, otherwise find a hole to crawl in to. 

So... people who like the game are trolls, people who don't like the game are trolls, and people who think both sides take it to ridiculous extremes are trolls?

According to this forum, yes, everyone is a troll. What cave did you venture out of recently?

The Bethesda forums cave of Fallout 3 vs New Vegas flamewars. I often feel like i never left there

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

We wanted to make RPGs, especially fantasy RPGs, accessible, cool, and interesting to people who have been playing RPGs for the last seven years and not realizing that every time they ate food or went for a long run in Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, they were essentially grinding constitution.

I think it's smart of BioWare to try to appeal to these players.  However, they need to avoid hiding the game's mechanics so well that players who want to know about them can't see them.

[Merced652]

Ascarel wrote...

I don't know if you guys knew about or belonged to the same online community back in 2001-2003, but seeing the forums all aflame like this, in this context, brings back memories of the Deus Ex schism that I witnessed (and sorta been part of). Really. It's the same thing all over again. After a Game of the Year title, Ion Storm put out a stinker that completely divided the community (which was a true niche, hardcore and devoted, with its share of talented modders). The lead designer of sequel, Harvey Smith, was as dismissive of the successful elements of the first game (which was in effect Warren Spector's baby), in almost the same terms, as Laidlaw is now, and he was also as convinced of his own great ideas. One major difference of course is that 10 years ago, Ion Storm got shut down by Eidos soon later, while Bioware has a more solid foundation with EA. 


But still. It's the same thing all over again. The hardcore who feel betrayed are using the same kinds of arguments to voice their disappointment as in that other community ten years ago. 

Oh, and yeah, they were, as they are now, completely right.  But that wasn't my main point here. 

You mean invisible war? A game that wasn't even playable on the PC for a few weeks after release?  Yea invisible war is probably the worst game i have ever actually finished. 

[OurSacrifice]

He is so utterly clueless on game design from a RPG perspective.  At least we got Origins - he can ruin the rest of the franchise, and turn a blind eye to the overwhelming negative perception that DA2 has gotten compared to Origins.

He can continue to shove this franchise down the proverbial toilet because EA will only allow it to happen one more time before they close the studio entirely.  DA 2 sales were much lower than Origins, review scores are much lower, and community perception is much worse.

There's room for improvement, but he's cheerleading the failures of DA 2 to such a degree that he clearly has no intentions of taking the franchise back to what made is successful in the first place - the Origins formula.

[Ascarel]

Merced652 wrote...

Ascarel wrote...

I don't know if you guys knew about or belonged to the same online community back in 2001-2003, but seeing the forums all aflame like this, in this context, brings back memories of the Deus Ex schism that I witnessed (and sorta been part of). Really. It's the same thing all over again. After a Game of the Year title, Ion Storm put out a stinker that completely divided the community (which was a true niche, hardcore and devoted, with its share of talented modders). The lead designer of sequel, Harvey Smith, was as dismissive of the successful elements of the first game (which was in effect Warren Spector's baby), in almost the same terms, as Laidlaw is now, and he was also as convinced of his own great ideas. One major difference of course is that 10 years ago, Ion Storm got shut down by Eidos soon later, while Bioware has a more solid foundation with EA. 


But still. It's the same thing all over again. The hardcore who feel betrayed are using the same kinds of arguments to voice their disappointment as in that other community ten years ago. 

Oh, and yeah, they were, as they are now, completely right.  But that wasn't my main point here. 

You mean invisible war? A game that wasn't even playable on the PC for a few weeks after release?  Yea invisible war is probably the worst game i have ever actually finished. 

Yeah, I actually forgot to mention that, but I was indeed talking about Deus Ex: Invisible War. I have so many feelings of déjà vu now that I almost want to replay the original game. It still has many devotees.

[TheMadCat]

dewayne31 wrote...

i never seen a developer actually admit to his mistakes. i have seen games after his mistakes. but that it

I've found it happens more often then not outside of EA and Activision. People have noted a few cases already, two of my favorites are with Paradox Interactive and their release of Hearts of Irons 3. The development staff admitted their failings and faults and acknowledged they were far to ambitious and time caught up with them faster then they thought it would, the CEO of the company went to the forums and offered anyone a refund for the product who wanted it, he messaged the people his contact information and got them their money back. Stardock's CEO has taken all the blame and has apologized profusely for Elemental, has told gamers who come to their boards asking about it essentially not to waste their money on it, and as compensation is giving anyone who purchased Elemental early in it's release cycle the next two expansion packs for free.

Granted both of those games release were much more disastrous from a technical and quality standpoint then DA2, which while it has it's unquestionable and undefenable flaws, is mostly faltering due to poor PR and questionable decisions that don't fit peoples prefrences.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 25 mars 2011 - 06:10 .

[Ascarel]

OurSacrifice wrote...

  At least we got Origins

Oh, we have much more than that. Green Ronin's Dragon age tabletop RPG is a total blast and it enables us to enjoy the setting the way we want it. FOREVER!

Modifié par Ascarel, 25 mars 2011 - 06:13 .

[Solica]

I understand Laidlaws points. But I do think he's very wrong about all that Final-Fantazying DA for his desire to bring "more personality" to the characters. First, it's plain outright wrong: The customizable and controllable characters of Origin have more blood, flesh and personality, by an order of many magintudes, than FF or DA2, inside the head of the player. I'm completely uninterested in this Laidlaw's own personal Hawk or Isobel. It's like he wants everybody to play just his character. Vanity-project indeed.

...And what the H* has Laidlaws feelings on seeing screen captures, where chars tend to wear the same armor, have to do with anything?
- The game is for the enjoyment of the players! - For ChrS! For the players, paying customers! Not Mike Laidlaw' satisfaction. And how is anything better now with those screen captures? Except that they now maybe represent Laidlaws choice?

Modifié par Solica, 25 mars 2011 - 06:23 .