373 réponses à ce sujet

[Solica]

To me, the most scary comment he gives is this:
"quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins"

To me that means that everything we understood - since years back, on Bioware's forums - as Dragon Age, is now dead and gone.

[this isnt my name]

Merced652 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

I really hope you don't place yourself upon some pedestal of righteousness and non-trollery because you're as bad if not as bad any troll who has trolled these forums. Also, your trolling is just bad, if it were funny i might even encourage it. I'll happily give you lessons if you want, otherwise find a hole to crawl in to. 

You obviousl havent seen drogos posts, I think thats his name.

And the giraffe guy.

Worst trolls ever.

[Merced652]

this isnt my name wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

I really hope you don't place yourself upon some pedestal of righteousness and non-trollery because you're as bad if not as bad any troll who has trolled these forums. Also, your trolling is just bad, if it were funny i might even encourage it. I'll happily give you lessons if you want, otherwise find a hole to crawl in to. 

You obviousl havent seen drogos posts, I think thats his name.

And the giraffe guy.

Worst trolls ever.

You're right, i'll give you drogo45 or whatever but at least the mangiraffedog was funny the first time around. 

[Elitru]

I enjoyed the interview, of course he points out somethings i just cannot agree with and the point about the sarcasm traslating to text...

However i do feel people are being overly agressive towards him, it's his take and he is the one who can afford to chose a path for the franchise.

No, i don't agree with the direction it is taking, but if you also don't agree you just point that out and why, not insult him...

I just wished he was more honest with himself and the fans, he brings Origins down to try and make DA2 look better, but that isn't the solution the game should stand out on it's own.

His goal is an understandable one, he wants RPGS to reach a wider audience, but the truth is shooters MP doesn't give you romances to try and bring new players in, He needs to satisfy his core players before thinking about newer ones, but if the sales are there we can't really argue with the results... So we will see.

[Everwarden]

Solica wrote...

To me, the most scary comment he gives is this:
"quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins"

To me that means that everything we understood - since years back, on Bioware's forums - as Dragon Age, is now dead and gone.

Sad, isn't it? Dragon Age -was- awesome, but I get the feeling it's all downhill from here. 

[the_one_54321]

I appreciate the tone of this interview more than the last one. But he still manages to imply at least once that the fans are wrong for not liking the new choices. It is in regard to the lack of isometric camera. Mike, I'm not wrong for disliking anything.

[AkiKishi]

Mike is Urgnot Wrex. He will drag us to mediocrity, sorry greatness, whether we like it or not.

[Angry_Bitter]

It's entirely a fool's errand to expect Mike Laidlaw or anyone at BioWare to just come out and say: "Hey guys, we know that game we just shipped is complete **** so shut up about it already". Even though it is, the fact BioWare is even being asked about the negative response has to lead them to ultimately come to a realization that DA 2 was not up to their usual standards.

These responses from Laidlaw are the same cookie cutter corporate PR speak you get from any corporation that has had a similar episode of embarrassment. We all got the same lawyer-ed up statements from British Petroleum about how "sorry" they were about the gulf oil spill and how "hard" they were working to clean it up and make the victims whole even though we all knew the truth- like any corporation they never gave a flying **** about the victims or the entire situation.

It would not surprise me if internally at least, Laidlaw, Gaider, Farrah and the rest of the DA franchise heads are having discussions about how to make DA 3 more like Origins. That is the optimist in me speaking though. The pessimist in me knows they are probably hard at work on DA 3 and ME 3 discussing how they can further dumb down, streamline and remove gameplay elements to cater to the ADD ****tards that own Xbox 360s and PS3s.

[Schurge]

Suffice it to say, I find his final thoughts to be very scary.

While he did make a few good points (I thought his argument for the changes to companions to be pretty solid and he won me over on the companion-specific armor because of the example of Aveline - as she rises in the world her uniform changes, which was pretty cool) most of them were pretty weak - what I got over all from the interview is that he didn't like Dragon Age: Origins and that the Dragon Age franchise won't be like Origins and is taking a direction that I don't like.

FYI Laidlaw,
- You can still have custom characters (ala Origins) be voiced, just make one voice for each gender.
- The Warden did have character - I felt alot more connected to my Warden than I did to my Hawke.
- There is no reason why you couldn't have implemented a chat system similar to Origins except have it be voiced and have the symbols indicating what each option's intent is.
- You can still do the 'dynamic' story telling in DAII with an Origin's style character, and for that matter, who didn't like the story in Origins besides you? I like that DAII's ending is more open to expansions, we won't have to go through another Awakening.
- While there is no reason for you to encounter Alistair in DAII that doesn't mean people don't want to have companions return from other installments. In the case of DAII it doesn't make sense for the recruitables from Origins to be recruitable here, however don't assume people don't want to see old companions.
- You can have more streamlined fast paced combat without making the sacrifices you did from the original system,    there is no reason why they couldn't just add the attack button and the charges into the old system. You can design the game so that you don't have to set companion's tactics without watering down the options you have for setting companion tactics.
- You could have still worked in the overhead camera for dungeons.
- Dragon Age: Origins wasn't to hard. I had a very hard time of it in the beginning on Easy, but by the time I left Lothering I was able to switch to Normal, and now I find Nightmare Difficulty in Origins to be easier than Hard difficulty in DAII.
- It is okay for you to support your game, but you shouldn't just write off the legitimate complaints about the game and not bother to acknowledge them or try to make them seem unreasonable.

As for me, I do like DAII I had fun on my first playthrough (didn't feel like doing a second) and I think that it did improve upon Dragon Age: Origins in several ways, but I disliked more changes to the game than I liked (and somethings I could take or leave - the dialogue wheel doesn't bug me, except in the sense of what its implementation could mean for the future of the series).

Dragon Age: Origins, overall, is a better game in my opinion and I got alot more out of it than I did with DAII. I don't know why you want to steer Dragon Age in the direction you seem to be steering it, you already have a great console-style RPG called Mass Effect (which I love, I thought MEII's combat was what MEI's was meant to be). Dragon Age is meant to be what Dragon Age: Origin's was.

Modifié par Schurge, 25 mars 2011 - 06:58 .

[this isnt my name]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Mike is Urgnot Wrex. He will drag us to mediocrity, sorry greatness, whether we like it or not.

I think he is more like the Turian counciler "Ah yes *insert criticism* we have dissmissed those claims".


Also I blame ME2s success, I think BW see ME2 and are thinking "OMG it needs to be like that" if I wanted a game like ME2 I would play *gasp* ME2.

[Aumata]

Why can't bioware just admit that DA2 was a screw up and learn from their mistakes. Denial won't change a damn thing. This is coming from someone who likes the game. But it has the feel of a rush game, their isn't a thing that can be said about it.

[Angry_Bitter]

Schurge wrote...

Suffice it to say, I find his final thoughts to be very scary.

Well, going back to my original post, Laidlaw's thoughts (I hope) should be chalked up to corporate PR speak, He's just trying to save face in the wake of shipping a crap game. If he really does believe what he's saying then God help us all.

[ink07]

@Angry_Bitter

Well, the problem is Laidlaw is not "sorry", in fact he is convinced he's made the right decisions. This:

We wanted to make RPGs, especially fantasy RPGs, accessible, cool, and interesting to people who have been playing RPGs for the last seven years and not realizing that every time they ate food or went for a long run in Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, they were essentially grinding constitution.

To me, that represents a huge audience that may have disregarded RPGs, especially fantasy, as being too hardcore or too confusing. And making certain changes to make the game palatable without ripping out the mechanics that make RPGs so fascinating to a stats guy or what have you. It keeps this genre evolving into something that's fresh and not stagnating.

is not: "I know we effed up, but we will fix it". He is putting down Origins as what the franchise is not, and elevating DA2 as the way it should go. You don't do that publicly unless that is your discourse internally.

He is basically saying: I know DA:O was our most successful game ever, nevermind those "hardcore suckers that made it so" we already have them locked down on it cus they love our RPGS,  now we will go for the other guys, the ones that play GTA and Call of Duty. I mean those games have "stats" right, and you "level up" totally the same, give this totally awesome badass fantasy franchise a chance.

He's out of touch, they are out for a quick buck, transforming their games into anualized console based series. To me it is unacceptable and a little bit too scary when it's coming from a developer like Bioware from whom I've bought every game they have ever made (expect Sonic, LOL, I don't like portables.)

Modifié par ink07, 25 mars 2011 - 07:00 .

[PinkysPain]

Elitru wrote...

However i do feel people are being overly agressive towards him, it's his take and he is the one who can afford to chose a path for the franchise.

They admitted more design mistakes in ME2 which was a game with a far better reception than DA2 ... and hell, a far better game (even if I feel they just traded one set of flaws for another set of flaws ... instead of actually improving the game).

but if the sales are there we can't really argue with the results... So we will see.

It sold on the back of DAO and the excellent if slightly disgusting pre-order scheme.

The sales of the DLC will be the proof of the pudding.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 25 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[Schurge]

Angry_Bitter wrote...

Schurge wrote...

Suffice it to say, I find his final thoughts to be very scary.

Well, going back to my original post, Laidlaw's thoughts (I hope) should be chalked up to corporate PR speak, He's just trying to save face in the wake of shipping a crap game. If he really does believe what he's saying then God help us all.

The way he spoke so disdainfully of Origins indicates in my mind that he does believe what he is saying.

[this isnt my name]

PinkysPain wrote...

Elitru wrote...

However i do feel people are being overly agressive towards him, it's his take and he is the one who can afford to chose a path for the franchise.

They admitted more design mistakes in ME2 which was a game with a far better reception than DA2 ... and hell, a far better game (even if I feel they just traded one set of flaws for another set of flaws ... instead of actually improving the game).

but if the sales are there we can't really argue with the results... So we will see.

It sold on the back of DAO and the excellent if slightly disgusting pre-order scheme.

The sales of the DLC will be the proof of the pudding.

Yeah its mostly origins fans, and clearly lots regret it.
Also its unfair to use dlc, DAO was a full gmae, here you need the dlc to get the end (this game wasnt a full story I dont care what you say).
DAA was a seperate one.

[Mousers]

Jitter wrote...

Mc Donalds tried to make Pizza
...same thing.. same outcome

Laughing made me choke on my tea. Excellent analogy. +50

[ironcreed2]

I hate to see when someone cannot accept criticism and instead beats around the bush, while craftily avoiding said criticisms. While I did enjoy DA II for what it is, things like the sparse and lifeless recycled environments, lack of overall environment variety and stripping even the ability to kit out your party are flaws in this game that add up to make it a shadow of what Origins was.

The game was obviously a rush job and was not even close to being what it could have been. Seeing BioWare arrogantly avoid these issues, while singing praises of what a great job they have done is quite the turn off. I love the games you guys make, but come on. I don't expect them to say, 'I know we screwed up' or anything, but just an acknowledgement that they could have done more and will be working to rectify the unpopular changes would be nice. As it would at least show that they give a damn.

As it stands, it looks like all they care about is the $$$$, and could not care any less about the quality of their games anymore. Let alone what their fans want in a game. Again, I did enjoy DA II, but by the time it was over, all it did is make me appreciate how epic Origins really was with it's varied environments, options, depth, content and overall level of quality. DA II is a decent game on it's own, but Dragon Age certainly deserves more. A shame that BioWare apparently cannot see this for the bright lights and shiny dollar signs.

Modifié par ironcreed2, 25 mars 2011 - 07:12 .

[TMZuk]

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

:D:D

But they did. Evil Bioware!

[Savber100]

Wake up guys.

Do you actually think that Laidlaw will publicly say that DA2 sucks when the game is less than a month old after release? Do you really think EA will permit an interview where the LEAD DESIGNER admits of flunking bigtime? Obviously not.

[Mousers]

Well there could be a light out there. It is hard to believe that the powers-that-be that gave Mike his big chair and write his paycheck .. all of them... agree that disolving the Origins fanbase is good business. And the true numbers really won't reflect for quite some time because the majority of sales are from that Origins fanbase.

But what really bothers me is those above Mike are allowing him to completely change this franchise into a new direction. I can see it if Origins was a flop, we all know it wasn't. Wondering how long they will let ML bring the franchise down. And don't they read these forums and reviews and drill him with questions? Have they looked at sales numbers? What were the Origins sales, then DA2 sales? Subtract Origins sales from DA2 sales and voila, there is the new fanbase. I'm not even sure ML is even listening to or looking at those accounting numbers to weigh franchise direction choices.

Or are they saying, we can afford to lose x% of the Origins fanbase and then we'll pickup x% from action players so we are good to go.... could be a financial decision. Rpg's are more expensive to make with voice and tiered choices. So take that down to a minimum and fill it with combat. So financially could be a good call if that is the direction. But I'd recommend removing the rpg tag and change it to action/adventure. Or how about changing the direction to an indy game, that is even cheaper to make. Afterall it does take a massive amount of finances to fund a mmo.

[Wyndham711]

DA2 is by far the most shockingly awful disappointment I've ever had with any game. And this is the case even taking into account my lowered expectations due to obviously limited dev time. And this in turn is the worst of all the horrid interviews I've read regarding the game post-release.

Apparently this is it - this defunct piece of software is the foundation the team has decided to choose for the series going forward. This, instead of the nigh universally acclaimed Origins. I am having trouble understanding how any reasonable person with basic integrity could make that decision. Hopefully all this is in the end just pathetic PR talk and the reality of the situation will end up being something completely different. Though at this point I will not bet on it.

[Solica]

Mousers wrote...

But what really bothers me is those above Mike are allowing him to completely change this franchise into a new direction. I can see it if Origins was a flop, we all know it wasn't. Wondering how long they will let ML bring the franchise down.

In all fairness to Laidlaw, he apparently wasn't the only one to make the big, sweeping decisions about DA2. This was made before. And they (the decisions) was the reason Origin's lead designer refused the job and left Bioware. So Laidlaw could be just the poor replacement guy that had to somehow save something from the ashes. Or he could be one of the guys behind driving for changes. Just don't make him the head villain just yet. We already know he wasn't responsible for the budget or shedule.

[Sandmanifest]

ToJKa1 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

*Munching popcorn as she watches the melodrama unfold* It's like Bioware has rewritten the Bible, only more sacrilegous. (/Snark over)

Just like what Bethesda did Fallout 3. I'm getting fat with all the popcorn munching, and there's still Skyrim and ME3 releases to go this year...

Heeeey now. Skyrim will be nice. And there's always The Witcher :happy:. And books. And movies. And like, life.

[MingWolf]

I respect Laidlaw for his idealism, and his enthusiasm. But I think he used the wrong methods to approach his vision of a game. I truly hope he isn't brushing away criticism and thinking everything is alright. Idealism can only go so far.