373 réponses à ce sujet

[Kovnic]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

DAO wasn't without its problems. It had its fair share in many areas. It was still a great game but to place it on a pedestal as a model of how to do things is asinine. This is how final fantasies are developed.

I never said DA:O didnt have problems (if you read my 1st post) . Also, that is your opinion on DA:O. I am pretty sure I have a different opinion on how much of DA:O was great and how much was bad.  To each their own.  Its not a case of people saying DA:O was perfect, but rather that they got rid of a lot of popular stuff from DA:O and as a result DA2 suffered for it...in some peoples opinion.

[Monica83]

JohnEpler wrote...

I'm going to suggest that comparing the lead designer of a game you're unhappy with and a dictator who is responsible for oppression and suffering may not be helping your case as much as you perhaps think it is.

I certainly have no issue with people expressing their frustration with the game, as these forums exist to allow you to share your opinion, whether positive or negative, but let's avoid the real world political comparisons, shall we? Particularly ones which conflate unhappiness with an entertainment product with having your livelihood and homes taken away.

Sorry john with all the respect i can give Ladiaw insulted us.. And that guy must learn some humility and admit him tryed to sell garbage showing that as a gold...I think ladiaw is the wrong person to work in dragon age franchise him took a great game and turn it in a stramlined trash...

[17thknight]

nicodeemus327 wrote...


Then you didn't read enough. It's been like this for pretty much every major sequal I can think of.

It would really be crappy with DA2 turned out like Left 4 Dead 2 which really was just more of the same.

You're intentinoally making a false comparison to try and make DA2 sound better. As though this has "all happened before.".

These kinds of reviews, interviews, and fan reactions have not occurred with any AAA Bioware release. Ever. Even with the things people didn't like in ME2 , it was still universally well received. DA2 doesn't even come close to that kind of critical or consumer success.

It is a massive step backwards. I enjoyed ME2, in spite of the serious dumbing down, because it's never been a serious RPG series. DA:O was. DA2 is nothing, absolutely nothing, like DA:O . As Laidlaw himself says.

And that is BAD.

[delikanli]

Monica83 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I'm going to suggest that comparing the lead designer of a game you're unhappy with and a dictator who is responsible for oppression and suffering may not be helping your case as much as you perhaps think it is.

I certainly have no issue with people expressing their frustration with the game, as these forums exist to allow you to share your opinion, whether positive or negative, but let's avoid the real world political comparisons, shall we? Particularly ones which conflate unhappiness with an entertainment product with having your livelihood and homes taken away.

Sorry john with all the respect i can give Ladiaw insulted us.. And that guy must learn some humility and admit him tryed to sell garbage showing that as a gold...I think ladiaw is the wrong person to work in dragon age franchise him took a great game and turn it in a stramlined trash...

he did much worse

[Baelyn]

delikanli wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

I'm going to suggest that comparing the lead designer of a game you're unhappy with and a dictator who is responsible for oppression and suffering may not be helping your case as much as you perhaps think it is.

I certainly have no issue with people expressing their frustration with the game, as these forums exist to allow you to share your opinion, whether positive or negative, but let's avoid the real world political comparisons, shall we? Particularly ones which conflate unhappiness with an entertainment product with having your livelihood and homes taken away.

Sorry john with all the respect i can give Ladiaw insulted us.. And that guy must learn some humility and admit him tryed to sell garbage showing that as a gold...I think ladiaw is the wrong person to work in dragon age franchise him took a great game and turn it in a stramlined trash...

he did much worse

Quotes to back this up please. Thanks.

[Monica83]

i really dont like the direction bioware taken i hope they become much more interested at the comunity feedbak on future

[EccentricSage]

AlanC9 wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...
Um... were their tactics in Origins THAT unimaginative?  

Quite possibly. DAO didn't actually reward thinking all that much.

Edit: sure, the stuff you talked about works great. But you can also get through the game just fine by spamming Cone of Cold a lot.

I agree.  One of the patches improved that, but it still was unbalanced.  On the up side, abilities like cone of cold and AoE could easily harm one's own party members.  I still found some battles challanging the first few times through them.  Like the Tevinter Slaver, who used AoE as well, so here we were in a relatively enclosed space, on a narrow starecase, blocked on both sides, being shot at by archers who were on the other side of the storm.  The first time was pretty interesting.

I think they could have made a level of play harder than Nightmare, though.  But then, I heard there is a mod that does that. 

It's kind of awesome when you reach that point where you've really got the hang of character builds and certain strategies, and battles that were so difficult that took all your poltaces just to survive with one character standing on Normal, are now no big deal on Hard.  There is a sense of accomplishment in that.  Especially when button mashing fans would whine about how hard and unfair the game is on the boards. 

I've sadly never played this type of RPG before Origins, so I'll be picking up older titles once I bore of Origins.  At least I have stuff like BG to look forward to.

[Sandiel]

You know, Laidlaw does seem to have an epic talent...

... for inserting his foot in his mouth.

[Monica83]

I suggest you to try baldur's gate and baldur's gate 2 they have the best combination of story companions quest dialogues strategy

[EccentricSage]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

DungeonLord wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

If they really wanted to pull off maximum returns for the smallest possible investment, they could have simply tweaked What they had created for Origins and then built uppon it, creating a more direct sequel.

Then they could have put their time in optimizing it, and creating heavily detailed and diverse places and items. They still could have made it nearly as cinematic, with or without the voiced protagonist.

It was downright stupid to put all that time and money into sweeping gameplay changes and ignore the importance of creating something where the story, lore, and gameplay are cohesive, instead of having the gameplay punching holes in the plot, and creating a very small space with little variety or exploration.

This.

The original had some minor flaws that could have been fixed. Instead Bioware went ahead and reinvented the wheel, wasting apparently precious resources and time.

I would have never bought DA2 is it was just more origins. Also, DAO had more than a few minor flaws. There's were some pretty screwed up things about it. This includes combat (hello Arcane Warriors) and narrative wise (I could sleep with morigain and leliana before recruiting one army).

So many people hold DAO on a pedestal and it doesn't deserve it at all.

I did not mean that it should have been 'more Origins'.  Rather, they could have improved on what they had rather than throw so much of it out and start over.  I could write you an essay on things I thought could be better about Origins.  From a time management and resource management standpoint, if you have such a short development period, you should build on and improve on the old foundation.  That way one has time to test things and make sure the combat will be balanced, and there would be time for more detail, exploration, unique objects, culture, depth... not just in cutscenes.  I'm just saying, if the point was to capitalize off of Origins, and make the most money possible on each dollar spent, building on what you have, which did well but needed improvements, is more likely to work than starting over.

[EccentricSage]

I should note that while I'm not happy with all of Laidow's views , I'm not on the 'Laidow is evil and Dragon Age is doomed' boat. I do think the head level designer should be fired, though... he sounded like 12 year old in his interview, talking about how game logic isn't important so long as you can do 'cool stuff', and that you can just explain any broken logic as 'Hawk is just that Awesome'. Complete. Idiot. He's also the guy responsible for 'waves' of enemies spawning out of thin air. He saw no flaw in any of it, and said he was surprised that people were bothered by the constant recycling.

[Monica83]

For me him is not the right person to work in a game like dragon age maybe mass effect

[Monica83]

For me him is not the right person to work in a game like dragon age maybe mass effect

[Tirigon]

EccentricSage wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

He also says the buzzphrase "Paradigm shift" which means everyone needs to do a shot of tequila.

Every meaningless consultant biz speak buzzphrase from a game dev = shot of hard liquor to ease the pain

That's actually a good idea.  Gonna go get my vodka and Irish Creme Liquor.

I don´t think it´s a good idea. This interview is so full of sh!t I would need to be brought to the hospital before I´m even halfway through. And i can drink a lot......

[Akka le Vil]

I have to say that the amount of downplaying of DA2's problems in the interview is rather appalling.
Either it's damage control past the point of ridiculousness, a complete disconnect with reality, or some severe kind of denial.

[Dokarqt]

petipas1414 wrote...

Yea man the ME2 'backlash' was nothing compared to this. The big difference between ME2 and DA2 is that one was good and one sucked, sorry. ME2 won tons of awards and I highly doubt DA2 will win any.

This.
The difference between ME2 and DA2, though they were both sequels that were "streamlined" if you will and "dumbed down", is that ME2 was/is actually a good game. Different from ME1 but good in its own right. DA2 cannot claim the same.
Even I who do not play shooter games or have ever been interested in shooter games found ME2 combat gameplay fun, thats why it worked taking away some of the RPG elements because the very noticeable improvements to combat mechanics made up for it. The conversion from RPG to action-RPG worked.
DA2 combat does not really feel improved over DA:O, its faster paced with more fluid animations but thats about it.

Im sure a very large number of the DA2 sales were from people  (like me) who preordered the game long before release because of DA:O and biowares track record when it comes to RPGs. If DA2 sales were built solely on its own merit as a game it probably wouldn't have sold half as many copies.
I have spoken to aquaintances who are a far cry from "hardcore" RPG gamers like me(im of the baldurs gate 1 CRPG generation) who bought DA2 because they enjoyed origins and even they were disappointed with DA2.

[Akee_90]

Lunar Savage wrote...

Yup. Such great potential for a new franchise was flushed down the toilet because of a selfish desire on part of the devs to force their vision on what the game world should look like on the players (I guess in a way, they have the right to do that since it IS their game, but in general, it's not exactly what I've come to expect from Bioware...I'm referring to character customization btw, armor, etc.). Oh, and of course to make a quick buck riding off the name of the first game.

I don't quite understand why he wants to make games for people who don't play RPGs in the first place. The only way to do that is to mar and change it so drastically that it's no longer a RPG that the new crowd is playing. In the end, he will only be changing that which is created for the players. Not converting players into the genre he designs. I think they'd be better making spin-off games that change the formula or even a new fantasy franchise in this direction.

Bioware has not only become a "wait for review before buying" company for me, but they have also lost my respect with this interview. This is a complete slap in the face to any fans with legitimate enthusiasm for what could have been a strong continued lifeline for CRPGs.

Me personally? I think the game is Mass Effect 2 with swords. Far too much hack n' slash. Which, I'm sorry, but hack n' slash, while fun, is indeed dumbed down.

lol, too bad hack n' slash wasn't what I wanted out of this franchise. If it were, I'd be playing the Hell out of it. Instead, I'm just disappointed.

(gah, and suddenly I'm reminded of my intense desire for Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance III )

....I am also remembering when Bioware stated EA wouldn't have an effect on them. XD

well said.

[supertouch]

video game developers are keenly aware of their consumers' expectations. it's unethical to pull the wool over people's eyes, tell them their devotion to something doesn't matter, and then denounce the very thing that afforded them financial success and a considerably bigger following.

[Terror_K]

Might I add, perhaps the game would have been more polished and fresh had the devs completely changed the art style too. How much time, effort, resources and money was put into completely revamping the look of Dragon Age for this half-assed sequel that could have been better spent actually MAKING the game itself? It was made in what... not even a year and a half since the original all up and already felt rushed as hell and a shadow of its predecessor, and yet instead of using existing designs and resources the DA2 team wasted time changing elves into WoW elf and Na'vi lovechilds, hurlocks into Day of the Dead parade attendees and even redesigning the looks of existing characters completely who half the time were just humans.

[GardenSnake]

Jitter wrote...

Well i bet Mike Also likes

1) New Coke
2) The Mc Lobster
3) Coca Cola Black
4) The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
5) Caddy Shack II
6) Halo II
7) Matrix II
8) Alcohol free beer
9) Tofu hot dogs
10) DA II

Hey! Indy 4 and Halo 2 were great. Don't diss them. I haven't played DA 2 yet, but all the things I've heard on the forums as well as reviews have basically confirmed my fears. I won't totally pass judgement until I've played it, but something tells me I'll be begging for someone to make it stop by the last act.....

[Baelyn]

Baelyn wrote...

Just for reference, can someone post specific quotes from Laidlaw in this interview where he "hated" on DA:O and where he made "old school fans" out to be dumb? Because I didn't see that in anything he said in this article. Did he acknowledge that DA:O had issues they wanted to improve? Yes. Almost every time he made it clear after the statement that it wasn't "bad" how it was but it was something they felt they could improve. And I never read him saying anything like "You can think what you want but we are right." I think people want so badly to hate him that they read way too much into his statements and hear what they want to hear.

Still waiting.

[SphereofSilence]

Mike dismisses players' complaints by explaining away. I just do not like this.

In a recent interview by Game Informer, Casey Hudson's (Executive Producer of Mass Effect series) comments along the lines of 'Every fan's complaints, are valid - to that person. And this needs to be addressed in some way. We read fan's feedback and take it very seriously that way.This is not addressed necessarily by piece meals of numerous solutions, but simple, elegant solutions. We literally copy pasted thousands of comments on the forums, and categorized them into 48 categories, and improve them for the next game.' Now that's a great example of what a game maker ought to think, if one is serious about making a really great game.

In contrast, Mike repeats 'We can't please everybody'' in lots of interviews. While this statement is true, it doesn't inspire confidence in fans because it doesn't show that he cares about what fans think, nor show that he is serious about addressing those complaints in the next game.

Modifié par SphereofSilence, 06 mai 2011 - 09:19 .

[Aggie Punbot]

EccentricSage wrote...

I should note that while I'm not happy with all of Laidow's views , I'm not on the 'Laidow is evil and Dragon Age is doomed' boat. I do think the head level designer should be fired, though... he sounded like 12 year old in his interview, talking about how game logic isn't important so long as you can do 'cool stuff', and that you can just explain any broken logic as 'Hawk is just that Awesome'. Complete. Idiot. He's also the guy responsible for 'waves' of enemies spawning out of thin air. He saw no flaw in any of it, and said he was surprised that people were bothered by the constant recycling.

In his defense, there is one circumstance when that is absolutely priceless: when the enemies pop out of thin air and land directly inside of an AoE spell.

"Ha HA! I've got the jump on you noAAARRRGH! LIGHTNING EVERYWHERE!"  *fries to death*

[Stanley Woo]

Please don't resurrect month-old threads.

End of line.