160 réponses à ce sujet

[StarGateGod]

Cancer Puppet wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

it was explained, pay attention better

There've been alot of posts. Enlighten me.

-polite

when a relay is activated it automatically activates any of its partners, thisgoes for both primary and secondary relays
the only difference is the citadel, see as in order to activate it you would need to find the switch

[CulturalGeekGirl]

StarGateGod wrote...

Digifi wrote...

I dunno, I think it was summed up by others pretty well. You don't want to waste energy or risk losing reapers in a fair fight, and reaping takes centuries from the sounds of it. So even if they still have enough power for a solid first assault, do they have the longevity to last centuries if they flew in via FTL versus the Citadel? They do have a lot of plans though:

Plan A: signal the Citadel as usual...didn't work because the Protheans modded the Keepers...
Plan B: Rachni so you can get to the Citadel and work Plan A, lookin good and...Krogan whaaa?
Plan C: Geth, with help from a Spectre, gets us back to Plan A, this one has to work...who's the clown with the invisible starship and all-around badass aura?
Plan D: Kill the dude with the invisible starship and turn his species into a new reaper to restart from Plan A... HOW THE EFF IS HE ALIVE?
Plan E: ok, screw elegance, this bastard Shepard is gonna make us work for dinner, in the words of old time table top gamers "I walk up, bust down the door, and kill it"...outcome TBD

lol great explanation

Seconded. This is genius. It also made me finally understand what the Rachni thing was all about... it hadn't occurred to me that Sovereign might have realized the Keepers were broken prior to the whole Saren thing. Makes complete sense now.

[Gentleman Moogle]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

Digifi wrote...

I dunno, I think it was summed up by others pretty well. You don't want to waste energy or risk losing reapers in a fair fight, and reaping takes centuries from the sounds of it. So even if they still have enough power for a solid first assault, do they have the longevity to last centuries if they flew in via FTL versus the Citadel? They do have a lot of plans though:

Plan A: signal the Citadel as usual...didn't work because the Protheans modded the Keepers...
Plan B: Rachni so you can get to the Citadel and work Plan A, lookin good and...Krogan whaaa?
Plan C: Geth, with help from a Spectre, gets us back to Plan A, this one has to work...who's the clown with the invisible starship and all-around badass aura?
Plan D: Kill the dude with the invisible starship and turn his species into a new reaper to restart from Plan A... HOW THE EFF IS HE ALIVE?
Plan E: ok, screw elegance, this bastard Shepard is gonna make us work for dinner, in the words of old time table top gamers "I walk up, bust down the door, and kill it"...outcome TBD

lol great explanation

Seconded. This is genius. It also made me finally understand what the Rachni thing was all about... it hadn't occurred to me that Sovereign might have realized the Keepers were broken prior to the whole Saren thing. Makes complete sense now.

Thirded. That was hilarious. 

Makes good sense, too. 

[StarGateGod]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

Digifi wrote...

I dunno, I think it was summed up by others pretty well. You don't want to waste energy or risk losing reapers in a fair fight, and reaping takes centuries from the sounds of it. So even if they still have enough power for a solid first assault, do they have the longevity to last centuries if they flew in via FTL versus the Citadel? They do have a lot of plans though:

Plan A: signal the Citadel as usual...didn't work because the Protheans modded the Keepers...
Plan B: Rachni so you can get to the Citadel and work Plan A, lookin good and...Krogan whaaa?
Plan C: Geth, with help from a Spectre, gets us back to Plan A, this one has to work...who's the clown with the invisible starship and all-around badass aura?
Plan D: Kill the dude with the invisible starship and turn his species into a new reaper to restart from Plan A... HOW THE EFF IS HE ALIVE?
Plan E: ok, screw elegance, this bastard Shepard is gonna make us work for dinner, in the words of old time table top gamers "I walk up, bust down the door, and kill it"...outcome TBD

lol great explanation

Seconded. This is genius. It also made me finally understand what the Rachni thing was all about... it hadn't occurred to me that Sovereign might have realized the Keepers were broken prior to the whole Saren thing. Makes complete sense now.

if you let the queen live then she pretty much tells you that the reapers are the reason that they attacked

[mcsupersport]

StarGateGod wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

Digifi wrote...

I dunno, I think it was summed up by others pretty well. You don't want to waste energy or risk losing reapers in a fair fight, and reaping takes centuries from the sounds of it. So even if they still have enough power for a solid first assault, do they have the longevity to last centuries if they flew in via FTL versus the Citadel? They do have a lot of plans though:

Plan A: signal the Citadel as usual...didn't work because the Protheans modded the Keepers...
Plan B: Rachni so you can get to the Citadel and work Plan A, lookin good and...Krogan whaaa?
Plan C: Geth, with help from a Spectre, gets us back to Plan A, this one has to work...who's the clown with the invisible starship and all-around badass aura?
Plan D: Kill the dude with the invisible starship and turn his species into a new reaper to restart from Plan A... HOW THE EFF IS HE ALIVE?
Plan E: ok, screw elegance, this bastard Shepard is gonna make us work for dinner, in the words of old time table top gamers "I walk up, bust down the door, and kill it"...outcome TBD

lol great explanation

Seconded. This is genius. It also made me finally understand what the Rachni thing was all about... it hadn't occurred to me that Sovereign might have realized the Keepers were broken prior to the whole Saren thing. Makes complete sense now.

if you let the queen live then she pretty much tells you that the reapers are the reason that they attacked

The other thing to remember is there may have been other plots that failed or didn't work out that we have never heard of.  Between A and B or most likely between B and C because of the lenght of time ala 1000+ years. 

As far as the Reapers state when they arrive, the assumption is that all they need is energy to survive, but they are hybrid organic and thus when fully awake, they made need a whole lot more stuff to survive.  It is very possible that a fully awakened Reaper mind needs plenty of organic nutrients and the like to work and survive, making a two year + treck through darkspace dangerous after a long period of hybernation.  Again this is specualtion, but something to think about.

[stysiaq]

Well, some good points were made in this thread. I'm afraid, that most of the discussion is just trying to explain one plot hole after another. The ME team surely didn't think of everything, they've already made some bad choices in the universe developement (like 60 000 years cycle length, in my opinion), let's hope they're smart enough to work things out.

First of all, I just wish the reapers don't come 'physically' to the galaxy. Obvious. If so, whole ME1 and ME2 plots have no significance at all. It would be sth like this:
Reaper 1: Ok, its 60 000:00, time to get to work!
Reaper 2: Call Ken, he'll send a taxi here.
R1: Know it, dumb, don't have to repeat it every 60 millenia.
R2: Acknowledged. Scrambled eggs fine for breakfast? Also, Ken not responding.
R1: Oh my god, they killed Ken.
R2: Shoot. What we gonna do now? Oh, hi Harbey.
Harbinger: Guys, wtf? we're like 3 years late for work.
R1: Long story short - no taxi this time.
R2: Also, Ken was killed.
H: Oh my god! <cries as R1 and R2 watch. Grief. Sorrow. Silence.> <after few months of crying> Well, we can't be more late, I'll just assume control everywhere, build another Ken from some organic crap thelepatically and order the taxi. Not the fastest way, I know, we'll be some years late, maybe we'll get back a century later, still it will spare us <ominous music, camera focus> WALKING!
R1: Oh no, no walking!!! <shivers>
R2: If we are to walk - screw it, count me out.
H: Well, that's with my plan. That little bugger just won't let us use a cab.
<H's wife arrives, holding a giant frying pan>
Wife: HERBERT!
H: Oh crap.
W: You're outta here! Out to work already, will you? Make some freakin money! Or forget about dinner! <leaves>
R1: Women.
R2: That pretty sums it up.
H: Well boys, a hag she is indeed, but i love her. Isn't love completely out of reason, still the most beautiful thing in the universe? And isn't love the reason we get up every 60 000:00 and go to the milky way to exterminate organic life - just to see a smile somewhere among beloved mechanical tentacles? A mystery truly impossible to solve, an eternal riddle it is.
R1: Something beyond organics limits of understanding. Ken always said that.
R2: So what, are we walking or something? Because if so, count me out.
H: Steve, don't be such a couch potato. It's freaking 2 years from here. Move it!

-The End-

[Made Nightwing]

^This

[CulturalGeekGirl]

My earlier confusion about the Rachni wasn't why they attacked (got
that from the queen), but why the reapers decided to use them if the
Reapers always just used the Citadel. The idea of the Rachni being a
means to help the Reapers reach the citadel was the link that hadn't
gotten through to me yet.

Also, I think people are
underestimating the importance of the element of surprise, here. If the
reapers arrive at the Citadel they can take out the central nervous
system of the galaxy from there.

stysiaq wrote...

Well, some good points were made in this thread. I'm afraid, that most of the discussion is just trying to explain one plot hole after another. The ME team surely didn't think of everything, they've already made some bad choices in the universe developement (like 60 000 years cycle length, in my opinion), let's hope they're smart enough to work things out.

First of all, I just wish the reapers don't come 'physically' to the galaxy. Obvious. If so, whole ME1 and ME2 plots have no significance at all. It would be sth like this:
Reaper 1: Ok, its 60 000:00, time to get to work!
Reaper 2: Call Ken, he'll send a taxi here.
R1: Know it, dumb, don't have to repeat it every 60 millenia.
R2: Acknowledged. Scrambled eggs fine for breakfast? Also, Ken not responding.
R1: Oh my god, they killed Ken.
R2: Shoot. What we gonna do now? Oh, hi Harbey.
Harbinger: Guys, wtf? we're like 3 years late for work.
R1: Long story short - no taxi this time.
R2: Also, Ken was killed.
H: Oh my god! <cries as R1 and R2 watch. Grief. Sorrow. Silence.> <after few months of crying> Well, we can't be more late, I'll just assume control everywhere, build another Ken from some organic crap thelepatically and order the taxi. Not the fastest way, I know, we'll be some years late, maybe we'll get back a century later, still it will spare us <ominous music, camera focus> WALKING!
R1: Oh no, no walking!!! <shivers>
R2: If we are to walk - screw it, count me out.
H: Well, that's with my plan. That little bugger just won't let us use a cab.
<H's wife arrives, holding a giant frying pan>
Wife: HERBERT!
H: Oh crap.
W: You're outta here! Out to work already, will you? Make some freakin money! Or forget about dinner! <leaves>
R1: Women.
R2: That pretty sums it up.
H: Well boys, a hag she is indeed, but i love her. Isn't love completely out of reason, still the most beautiful thing in the universe? And isn't love the reason we get up every 60 000:00 and go to the milky way to exterminate organic life - just to see a smile somewhere among beloved mechanical tentacles? A mystery truly impossible to solve, an eternal riddle it is.
R1: Something beyond organics limits of understanding. Ken always said that.
R2: So what, are we walking or something? Because if so, count me out.
H: Steve, don't be such a couch potato. It's freaking 2 years from here. Move it!

-The End-

Your premise is faulty! You're faulty! 

I would imagine that the metaphor is less akin to being stuck at home headed to work, and more akin to being stuck in Tahiti and finding out the airport is closed when you need to get to New York. Sure you can try to get a boat back to the mainland, but that journey might take days or weeks, so you have to bide your time... determine if it's faster to wait for the airport to re-open or take the boat now.  If you leave on a boat as soon as you find out the airport is closed, and it opens up again when you're three days out, you've wasted a lot of time, energy, and resources just to get home much, much slower than you would have otherwise. Then again, if you wait a month for the airport to open... you could have been home by now if you'd just taken the boat. There's no way to know which one will be faster.

I thought it was strongly implied that the Reapers were way more than two years away in Dark Space, that they might be a hundred years away at non-relay speeds.

Also, if they use the Citadel they have the element of surprise, cutting off the legs of both government and communication with one fell swoop. If they slowly sail in to some fringe system, the residents there may get a warning out early enough for people to mount a serious defense.

In addition, flying all that way with simple FTL likely uses an immense amount of fuel, which might be more limited.

[Winterfly]

Manic Sheep wrote...


Vigil explains this to you. The reapers are not immortal, they can be killed. Using the Citadel relay would have allowed them to pop in, take out the heart of galactic government and a large portion of the military in one surprise attack with minimal risk, disable relay travel leaving everyone trapped in their own systems and unable to organise any real resistance. Easy pickings. The reapers are old . Better to go for the slower option with less risk. When ME1 comes around Sov is running out of patience.
The fact that they now can’t do this is the only reason anyone has a fighting chance.

Not to mention it probably takes allot of energy to get to here from darkspace. For all we know this could have severely weakened them.
Now they are forced to come here from darkspace on their own and attack head on.

Yeah also it seems that the current races are so ****ing crazed that they need to use the Geth to get to the big citadel relay. Else they would meet Krogans, Quarians, Geth, Asari, Humans and Turians among others who seemingly got big ass fleets or lots of soldiers/Biotic stuff to make a big mess out of stuff. 

[emmanuelsieyes]

It's entirely possible that when the lore talks about activating mass relays-it's just referring to needing someone to select one of the pre-programmed destinations.

It makes sense that there is a central control system-the Citadel-for the mass relays. This way, if communication is interrupted between relays, then the relay control systems can call back home to the Citadel and get the peer list. If you look at how the jumps are organized in the galaxy map, Shepard often has to go through several relays to get somewhere. That indicated a. range is limited, b. something has to tell a relay which partners it can operate with. Obviously, the mu relay cannot connect to the Widow nebula (citadel) relay directly because they're on the other side of the galaxy.

Liara's dialogue also indicates that each relay has several partners it can connect to 'the mu relay could link to dozens of systems!'

[stysiaq]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Your premise is faulty! You're faulty! 

I would imagine that the metaphor is less akin to being stuck at home headed to work, and more akin to being stuck in Tahiti and finding out the airport is closed when you need to get to New York. Sure you can try to get a boat back to the mainland, but that journey might take days or weeks, so you have to bide your time... determine if it's faster to wait for the airport to re-open or take the boat now.  If you leave on a boat as soon as you find out the airport is closed, and it opens up again when you're three days out, you've wasted a lot of time, energy, and resources just to get home much, much slower than you would have otherwise. Then again, if you wait a month for the airport to open... you could have been home by now if you'd just taken the boat. There's no way to know which one will be faster.

I thought it was strongly implied that the Reapers were way more than two years away in Dark Space, that they might be a hundred years away at non-relay speeds.

Also, if they use the Citadel they have the element of surprise, cutting off the legs of both government and communication with one fell swoop. If they slowly sail in to some fringe system, the residents there may get a warning out early enough for people to mount a serious defense.

In addition, flying all that way with simple FTL likely uses an immense amount of fuel, which might be more limited.

Well, you're right - it IS strongly implied that the Reapers are too far to simply travel to our galaxy - I was just expressing my concerns about BioWare's way to play that card - if the Reapers are to simply appear in the Milky Way out of the blue, the story gets ridiculous.

Remember, that after completing the suicide mission we see the Reapers travelling in our direction, and it looks like 'regular FTL travel' (no matter how stupid it sounds). And IF the Reapers are able to get 'that' way to the Milky Way within one human lifespan - there is no sense in any plots. No explanation needed.

Btw some offtopic afterthoughts - can't the Reapers just wait till Shepard dies of old age? With no Reaper assault on milky way everybody would just assume that Shepard and his crew are bunch of goddamn lunatics, like some crazy doom prophets. I'll try to find proper thread in a minute.