So as the game was being hyped, a clearly defined sense of family was being billed as a nice feature in DA2. And although the family is present, the family dynamic never actually burgeons into anything worthwhile - you lose one sibling within the prologue, lose the other at the end of Act 1, and your mother in Act 2's final stages.
Hell, the only constant is Gamlen, who is essentially the last choice you would make if you wanted a family member to stick around. You might get fortunate and be able to re-connect with your surviving sibling (provided they didn't die in the Deep Roads) very briefly at the conclusion of Act 3. That's not really enough and feels like a token gesture.
Anyone else disappointed by this? The Hawke family was a good concept but the execution wasn't commensurate. If a little more time had been devoted to family-related things (and perhaps keeping them alive and/or available longer), it could've added an interesting element to the game.
The family element - or lack thereof
Débuté par
ajbry
, mars 25 2011 12:42
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#2
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:44
GodBID
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I was a bit baffled that i was not given a choice to save my mother (from that lunatic) or my sister (from the circle), carver i couldn't give two fraks about i found him to be annoying and a whiny babie, (if i was given the choice i would have outright killed him during act 1) so ya i was a bit dissapointed in the whole family thing :/
Modifié par GodBID, 25 mars 2011 - 12:53 .
#3
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:48
Glorfindel709
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I agree with you completely.
I felt one moment of connection to members of the Hawke Family. Leandras death. That's right - the only time I felt connected to a character was 3/4ths of the way through the game as the character died Bride of Frankenstien style. The conversation following with Gamlen was touching and emotional, especially as I was playing a Mage.
But that was it. That was the only moment of connection. I didnt care at all when Bethany died at the very beginning - as I recall, I may have actually laughed at how ridiculously stupid a squishy mage walking up to within an ogres reaching area and not expecting to get grabbed and pummeled. When Carver left to join the Templars, I shrugged and kept playing as I'd only had him in my party for about 13 hours and all I heard about the entire time was how he was pissed about being in my shadow and that he wanted to make something of himself. And then he vanished until the end of the game. Bioware didnt even have a sibling reunion when Leandra died - one that would have been a very powerful Carver/Mage Hawke moment. It was denied to us.
I guess my biggest gripe is that there was no real way to interact with the so called family members I was supposed to make my character care about. I didnt know if Bethany had a secret obsession with shoes, or if Carver had any old memories that shaped and defined his personality. There was none of that - they were pixels that the dialogue called Brother or Sister and that was all.
I felt more connected to the Couslands and the Dalish Clan in Origins after an hour of playing than I felt a connection to anyone in the Hawke family after 39 hours of playing.
I felt one moment of connection to members of the Hawke Family. Leandras death. That's right - the only time I felt connected to a character was 3/4ths of the way through the game as the character died Bride of Frankenstien style. The conversation following with Gamlen was touching and emotional, especially as I was playing a Mage.
But that was it. That was the only moment of connection. I didnt care at all when Bethany died at the very beginning - as I recall, I may have actually laughed at how ridiculously stupid a squishy mage walking up to within an ogres reaching area and not expecting to get grabbed and pummeled. When Carver left to join the Templars, I shrugged and kept playing as I'd only had him in my party for about 13 hours and all I heard about the entire time was how he was pissed about being in my shadow and that he wanted to make something of himself. And then he vanished until the end of the game. Bioware didnt even have a sibling reunion when Leandra died - one that would have been a very powerful Carver/Mage Hawke moment. It was denied to us.
I guess my biggest gripe is that there was no real way to interact with the so called family members I was supposed to make my character care about. I didnt know if Bethany had a secret obsession with shoes, or if Carver had any old memories that shaped and defined his personality. There was none of that - they were pixels that the dialogue called Brother or Sister and that was all.
I felt more connected to the Couslands and the Dalish Clan in Origins after an hour of playing than I felt a connection to anyone in the Hawke family after 39 hours of playing.
#4
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:52
TJPags
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I'm very baffled by it.
Okay, I can live with the whole "one sibling dies based on your class thing". But then they take the other one away at the end of Act 2. And let's face it, other than having them in your party, interaction with companions - including your sibling - is extremely limited. They talk to you about their personal quests, that's about it, really. You can never just walk up to, say, Anders and ask him whether he ever actually had fun in the Circle, or was ever happy there at all. You can't ask your sister - or brother - what they really think about what's going on.
And mom, let's face it - she was just sort of there. Even less interaction with her than the others.
So, yes, I'm very baffled why this dynamic was so important. I felt no real connection to any of the companions, my sibling no more than others, and my mother, none. Sure, I was shocked when she was killed - but mainly because it was shocking. I never felt, "oh man, Hawke's mom died, that's so sad".
Maybe I'm just lacking in emotions or the ability to perceive the character I'm playing. But I felt nothing for Hawke's family, certainly nothing that would make the whole Templar v Mage conflict personal in any way. So the family element - didn't work for me at all.
Okay, I can live with the whole "one sibling dies based on your class thing". But then they take the other one away at the end of Act 2. And let's face it, other than having them in your party, interaction with companions - including your sibling - is extremely limited. They talk to you about their personal quests, that's about it, really. You can never just walk up to, say, Anders and ask him whether he ever actually had fun in the Circle, or was ever happy there at all. You can't ask your sister - or brother - what they really think about what's going on.
And mom, let's face it - she was just sort of there. Even less interaction with her than the others.
So, yes, I'm very baffled why this dynamic was so important. I felt no real connection to any of the companions, my sibling no more than others, and my mother, none. Sure, I was shocked when she was killed - but mainly because it was shocking. I never felt, "oh man, Hawke's mom died, that's so sad".
Maybe I'm just lacking in emotions or the ability to perceive the character I'm playing. But I felt nothing for Hawke's family, certainly nothing that would make the whole Templar v Mage conflict personal in any way. So the family element - didn't work for me at all.
#5
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:53
TheBlackBaron
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ajbry wrote...
Anyone else disappointed by this? The Hawke family was a good concept but the execution wasn't commensurate. If a little more time had been devoted to family-related things (and perhaps keeping them alive and/or available longer), it could've added an interesting element to the game.
I've noticed that this describes a disturbingly large number of things about this game.
But yes, I agree with you. It's understandable having one sibling die and maybe the shock value of Leandra being kidnapped and murdered by Buffalo Bill is an important part of Hawke's character development or whatever. But they should have at least let you keep the living twin around for more than 1/3 of the game. That's way too much story potential to just flush down the drain like that.
#6
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:54
Skyline_Stanza
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I can see where most are coming from on this topic of a lack of a famly dynamic but (and maybe it just takes very little to satisfy me as a gamer) but I felt that there was a small dynamic between my Hawke and her brother.
Like Glorfindal said, I connected with my Hawke a bit more when I did "All that Remains" quest. To hear the desperation in my characters voice, her worry for her mother and what might have happened to her, really made me feel that Alex Hawke, my snarky sarcastic mage with a heart of gold, wasn't just a projection of myself into the DA world: she was her own person, one that cared deeply for her mother.
So I thought there was a small SMALL family dynamic in this. something that I do wish was expanded upon, but I'm also equally satisfied with what I have currently. Other might not agree with me, say there was nothing there, and that's their opinion.
Like Glorfindal said, I connected with my Hawke a bit more when I did "All that Remains" quest. To hear the desperation in my characters voice, her worry for her mother and what might have happened to her, really made me feel that Alex Hawke, my snarky sarcastic mage with a heart of gold, wasn't just a projection of myself into the DA world: she was her own person, one that cared deeply for her mother.
So I thought there was a small SMALL family dynamic in this. something that I do wish was expanded upon, but I'm also equally satisfied with what I have currently. Other might not agree with me, say there was nothing there, and that's their opinion.
Modifié par Skyline_Stanza, 25 mars 2011 - 12:56 .
#7
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:56
Sesshomaru47
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They also said the game would span 10 years and that Shepard would tell jokes in Mass Effect 2....They didn't. Never believe anything they tell you, it's usually a load of crap in order to make the game appealing before it's released.
#8
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:57
MPSai
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Yeah the family is a little pointless, it would be better to just have race selection and be with a bunch of people you happened to escape Lothering with.
#9
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:58
GodBID
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Sesshomaru47 wrote...
They also said the game would span 10 years and that Shepard would tell jokes in Mass Effect 2....They didn't. Never believe anything they tell you, it's usually a load of crap in order to make the game appealing before it's released.
But it does span 10 years!!!1!
In the form of a total 15min of cinematics !
#10
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:01
Sesshomaru47
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GodBID wrote...
Sesshomaru47 wrote...
They also said the game would span 10 years and that Shepard would tell jokes in Mass Effect 2....They didn't. Never believe anything they tell you, it's usually a load of crap in order to make the game appealing before it's released.
But it does span 10 years!!!1!
In the form of a total 15min of cinematics !
How? 8 at most in my estimation. I'm in act 3 now and did Varicc's aniversary quest where he states that it's been 6 years since he met me, that with the 1 year they had to work off the debt is 7....Ok maybe it took nearly a year of sea sickness to get the Kirkwall but that would only make 8 years....not 10.
#11
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:29
Skyline_Stanza
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Sesshomaru47 wrote...
GodBID wrote...
Sesshomaru47 wrote...
They also said the game would span 10 years and that Shepard would tell jokes in Mass Effect 2....They didn't. Never believe anything they tell you, it's usually a load of crap in order to make the game appealing before it's released.
But it does span 10 years!!!1!
In the form of a total 15min of cinematics !
How? 8 at most in my estimation. I'm in act 3 now and did Varicc's aniversary quest where he states that it's been 6 years since he met me, that with the 1 year they had to work off the debt is 7....Ok maybe it took nearly a year of sea sickness to get the Kirkwall but that would only make 8 years....not 10.
I thought the Hawke family + Aveline only spent...like, 2 weeks on the boat to Kirkwall. Was there a time skip I'm missing somwhere?
1 year working off a debt
3 year time skip for Act 2
and then another 3 year skip for Act 3:
That totals to 7. Anyone care to clairfy on this issue? :/
#12
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:40
paptschik
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I think it could have been handled better in that there wasn't enough interaction possible with ANYONE in the game. I would've liked to be able to talk to the family, the companions etc. a lot more.
But at the same time, I was very happy with what I got and "All That Remains" is one of my favorite quests in any Bioware game, so I don't want to complain either.
But at the same time, I was very happy with what I got and "All That Remains" is one of my favorite quests in any Bioware game, so I don't want to complain either.
#13
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:44
TJPags
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Skyline_Stanza wrote...
Sesshomaru47 wrote...
GodBID wrote...
Sesshomaru47 wrote...
They also said the game would span 10 years and that Shepard would tell jokes in Mass Effect 2....They didn't. Never believe anything they tell you, it's usually a load of crap in order to make the game appealing before it's released.
But it does span 10 years!!!1!
In the form of a total 15min of cinematics !
How? 8 at most in my estimation. I'm in act 3 now and did Varicc's aniversary quest where he states that it's been 6 years since he met me, that with the 1 year they had to work off the debt is 7....Ok maybe it took nearly a year of sea sickness to get the Kirkwall but that would only make 8 years....not 10.
I thought the Hawke family + Aveline only spent...like, 2 weeks on the boat to Kirkwall. Was there a time skip I'm missing somwhere?
1 year working off a debt
3 year time skip for Act 2
and then another 3 year skip for Act 3:
That totals to 7. Anyone care to clairfy on this issue? :/
You know the part where Varric is being questioned by Cassandra? Yea, it happens 3 years after the end of the game.
There's your 10 years.
#14
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:49
Grant47
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I thought the Hawke family + Aveline only spent...like, 2 weeks on the boat to Kirkwall. Was there a time skip I'm missing somwhere?
1 year working off a debt
3 year time skip for Act 2
and then another 3 year skip for Act 3:
That totals to 7. Anyone care to clairfy on this issue? :/[/quote]
Thats correct. 7 years. Maybe 3 years later is when Varric is telling the tale?
I also agree with the whole family thing, even the time you have with the family they seem very bland and completely irrelivant on your actions. You would think by having an apostate sister would ring a fat "free the mages!' feel but by the end of the game I ended up saying screw her I've seen waaay to many maleficarum in the free marches to side with them.
1 year working off a debt
3 year time skip for Act 2
and then another 3 year skip for Act 3:
That totals to 7. Anyone care to clairfy on this issue? :/[/quote]
Thats correct. 7 years. Maybe 3 years later is when Varric is telling the tale?
I also agree with the whole family thing, even the time you have with the family they seem very bland and completely irrelivant on your actions. You would think by having an apostate sister would ring a fat "free the mages!' feel but by the end of the game I ended up saying screw her I've seen waaay to many maleficarum in the free marches to side with them.
#15
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:18
Sesshomaru47
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TJPags wrote...
You know the part where Varric is being questioned by Cassandra? Yea, it happens 3 years after the end of the game.
There's your 10 years.
That is cheap. And doesn't count when you consider they marketed it as Hawke's story (your game) spanning 10 years. Not the Dwarf's re-tel.
As for family if you make the sibling a Warden you see them a few times, at lot more than the Circle bound mage (dunno about Tenplar) or indeed the dead one.....Does Bethany treat you better than Carver when you see her again in the Wardens?
#16
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:21
ad1dash0lm3s
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Why are people still arguing about the time span? Does it make any difference really?
#17
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:24
Chuvvy
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I wish they all stayed I can understand maybe loseing one of the for Drama but not all. It was probably a way to get out of writing Carver/Bethany because one of them can die. Which annoys my. But I liked the protective sibling dynamic between Bethany and Hawke. And I really like the sibling rivalry between Hawke and Carver.
#18
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:24
TJPags
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Sesshomaru47 wrote...
TJPags wrote...
You know the part where Varric is being questioned by Cassandra? Yea, it happens 3 years after the end of the game.
There's your 10 years.
That is cheap. And doesn't count when you consider they marketed it as Hawke's story (your game) spanning 10 years. Not the Dwarf's re-tel.
As for family if you make the sibling a Warden you see them a few times, at lot more than the Circle bound mage (dunno about Tenplar) or indeed the dead one.....Does Bethany treat you better than Carver when you see her again in the Wardens?
Hey, I'm just reporting the facts. I agree, it's ****e, but there it is.
Haven't made anyone a Warden yet - from what I hear, Beth isn't too happy with you about it.
#19
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:25
Chuvvy
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ad1dash0lm3s wrote...
Why are people still arguing about the time span? Does it make any difference really?
It was sort of a massive marketing point that was a lie. So, yes?
BTW year ten will be sold as an expansion calling it now.
#20
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:26
Sesshomaru47
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ad1dash0lm3s wrote...
Why are people still arguing about the time span? Does it make any difference really?
It's false advertising! They did the same with ME...oh so many choices, you can do this and that and Shepard can fly and tell jokes he's so witty hahahaha oh I laugh trilly lala. Game developers and marketing reps are all full of it...They did the same with this it's 10 years...your family goes with you....for about an hour or 2 before they leave or die..no family issue is resolved, ever! It could have made an impact on Hawkes character but he/she is too busy fending unwanted adavances from Anders.
#21
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:30
frustratemyself
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I guess the family factor adds the tragedy factor to illustrate what a poor sad puppy Hawke is. Losing each family member one by one over approximately 10 years = need for hugs from your LI.
And Carver is fun to ****** off.
And Carver is fun to ****** off.
#22
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:31
ad1dash0lm3s
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Sesshomaru47 wrote...
ad1dash0lm3s wrote...
Why are people still arguing about the time span? Does it make any difference really?
It's false advertising! They did the same with ME...oh so many choices, you can do this and that and Shepard can fly and tell jokes he's so witty hahahaha oh I laugh trilly lala. Game developers and marketing reps are all full of it...They did the same with this it's 10 years...your family goes with you....for about an hour or 2 before they leave or die..no family issue is resolved, ever! It could have made an impact on Hawkes character but he/she is too busy fending unwanted adavances from Anders.
Okay, I understand now, I just didn't get why everyone cared so much. I see now though. Thanks.
#23
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 03:06
Morroian
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Slidell505 wrote...
ad1dash0lm3s wrote...
Why are people still arguing about the time span? Does it make any difference really?
It was sort of a massive marketing point that was a lie. So, yes?
How is it a lie when it is actually the truth? OK its not what we were expecting but does it really matter whether the Hawke portion covers 7 or 10 years?
#24
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 03:10
Blind Rapture
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If I have one complaint, it's this.
*Spoilers*
As an older sibling to 4 girls (2 adopted), I instantly felt a connection with Bethany. Her plights as a mage fueled nearly all my choices throughout the game even down to the final choices. Yet, I felt a complete lack of options to express this even though I felt it to be my Hawke's biggest driving force.
On top of that, Mother's death felt very cheap in an attempt to get an easy emotional response and for simple shock value. It was completely unneccassry and should have had the option of being avoidable.
*Spoilers*
As an older sibling to 4 girls (2 adopted), I instantly felt a connection with Bethany. Her plights as a mage fueled nearly all my choices throughout the game even down to the final choices. Yet, I felt a complete lack of options to express this even though I felt it to be my Hawke's biggest driving force.
On top of that, Mother's death felt very cheap in an attempt to get an easy emotional response and for simple shock value. It was completely unneccassry and should have had the option of being avoidable.
Modifié par Blind Rapture, 25 mars 2011 - 03:15 .
#25
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 03:32
Foolsfolly
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The family's there just for pathos.
Since they're the only characters that can who isn't Anders, they're just there until they die. The Mother feels exactly like that, she's only there to be emotional and then dies. If they wanted to drive home the fact that Family is a big part of the game and Hawke...then perhaps they should have hung around at least until Act 3.
But you go most of the game without even the option of having your family around. Your mom hangs around in the house, constantly. The siblings are taken away after the first 1/3 of the game and have a possibility of a cameo every now and then.
It's all pathos. Like giving a redshirt a name and a small backstory about how he's saving up money to save his ill son...and then the Tar Monster comes and eats him and the hero screams in agony because that man's son will never get better now.
They're more plot device than character.
Imagine if your family were as well developed as the other companions. Had Aveline, Merrill, Varric, or Fenris died I would have been tore up. The family were designed to die and lack the depth of those who were designed to hang around.
Since they're the only characters that can who isn't Anders, they're just there until they die. The Mother feels exactly like that, she's only there to be emotional and then dies. If they wanted to drive home the fact that Family is a big part of the game and Hawke...then perhaps they should have hung around at least until Act 3.
But you go most of the game without even the option of having your family around. Your mom hangs around in the house, constantly. The siblings are taken away after the first 1/3 of the game and have a possibility of a cameo every now and then.
It's all pathos. Like giving a redshirt a name and a small backstory about how he's saving up money to save his ill son...and then the Tar Monster comes and eats him and the hero screams in agony because that man's son will never get better now.
They're more plot device than character.
Imagine if your family were as well developed as the other companions. Had Aveline, Merrill, Varric, or Fenris died I would have been tore up. The family were designed to die and lack the depth of those who were designed to hang around.
