Aller au contenu

Photo

Mike Laidlaw - The problem? Somebody else - The solution?


518 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Ronin2006

Ronin2006
  • Members
  • 307 messages
Discuss.

Edit:  To those of you saying this is a hate thread or personal attack.

Okay, I understand where you're coming from, and perhaps I could have elaborated my own view first rather than just saying "discuss" but I didn't want to type up my own opinion here, I just wanted others to have their say.  But if you really want to how I feel, and why this isn't a personal attack read on.

Firstly, I don't hate Mike Laidlaw as a person, in fact I don't even know Mike Laidlaw.  Mike Laidlaw might in fact be one of the nicest/kindest/smartest men in the world.  But this thread isn't about Mike Laidlaw the person, it's about Mike Laidlaw the lead designer of Dragon Age 2.  Therefore, it isn't a personal attack, rather it's an invitation to discuss Mike Laidlaw's role as the lead designer of Dragon Age 2.

As someone who has worked in business, and studied it for many years, I have come to realise that the business world is a harsh, unkind, sometimes unjust one.  People well and truly live and die by the sword (metaphorically - just thought I'd put that in there considering the discussion is centered around Dragon Age).

The fact is, Mike Laidlaw as the lead designer of the game has been seen to be in charge of it's overall direction, it's policies, and even to an extent it's marketing.  In any organisation, it is the head who is responsible for the direction a business takes, and it is often the head who takes the blame when a business fails.  It appears that Mike Laidlaw is effectively the head of Dragon Age 2.  Now I could be wrong on this, and if it's true please point this out to me, because as far as I can see it's ultimately Mike Laidlaw's vision that has set the direction for Dragon Age 2.

Now understandably, EA does have a role in the eventual product that is Dragon Age 2.  But, they are the producer, and a producer is unlikely to have a major input into the direction a series takes.  Rather they will likely say to Bioware, that they have X amount of days, X amount of cash and resources for production, and X amount of copies are expected to sell.  EA will then market the product and distribute it based on what Bioware creates.  Ultimately then, while yes, EA may have given Mike Laidlaw only 12-18 months to make Dragon Age 2, and whether he did a good job given the context is again debatable.  What is debatable though is the success/failure of the game to meet public expectations.  A failure to meet expectations will then fall on Mike Laidlaw.  Harsh or not, this is the world we live in.

Edit again:  For those of you who continue to insist that this is a "personal attack" despite what has been said, consider this.  The Oxford Dictionary (which is generally considered authorative regarding the English language in case you didn't know) defines "personal" as the following:

  • adjective. Of, pertaining to, concerning, or affecting a person as an individual (rather than as a member of a group or of the public, or in a professional capacity etc); ...

The dictionary continues on from this, but hopefully you get the idea.  This thread is a discussion on Mike Laidlaw in his professional capacity and nothing more.  Further, any discussion that deviates from this I will not take part in.  Further, it's quite ironic that those of you whom consider this a personal attack resort to rather 'personal' attacks yourselves in your arguments.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 25 mars 2011 - 02:39 .


#2
Chaos_1001

Chaos_1001
  • Members
  • 498 messages
Isnt there another topic on this very same ideal / thought process ?

#3
YohkoOhno

YohkoOhno
  • Members
  • 637 messages
I've seen nothing to suggest ML is doing a bad job.

#4
Chaos_1001

Chaos_1001
  • Members
  • 498 messages
*edit*

Modifié par Chaos_1001, 25 mars 2011 - 01:21 .


#5
Selectric

Selectric
  • Members
  • 76 messages
My 2c is that your avatar pic is hilarious.

Also, I agree with you.

#6
RohanD

RohanD
  • Members
  • 304 messages
Careful, you may get banned for this...but of course I agree. He was not the right choice for this franchise.

Modifié par RohanD, 25 mars 2011 - 01:22 .


#7
Chaos_1001

Chaos_1001
  • Members
  • 498 messages

RohanD wrote...

Careful, you may get banned for this


THIS ^

#8
Zanderat

Zanderat
  • Members
  • 428 messages

YohkoOhno wrote...

I've seen nothing to suggest ML is doing a bad job.

Have you played DA2? 

Where is the awesome button that ML keeps mentioning?

#9
Uhh.. Jonah

Uhh.. Jonah
  • Members
  • 1 660 messages
NOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

#10
back pain

back pain
  • Members
  • 274 messages
Mike had what, 18 months to get this game out the door, I think he did a very good job considering what he was given.

#11
DieHigh2012

DieHigh2012
  • Members
  • 620 messages
Nope

#12
Tekman9

Tekman9
  • Members
  • 263 messages
said this in the other thread. i blame the timetable more than anything, but i dont like his ideas on what a modern RPG 'should' be like either...

#13
Zanderat

Zanderat
  • Members
  • 428 messages
The solution - Brent Knowles.

http://blog.brentkno...08-summer-2009/

#14
Chaos_1001

Chaos_1001
  • Members
  • 498 messages

back pain wrote...

Mike had what, 18 months to get this game out the door, I think he did a very good job considering what he was given.


Very excellent point and very valid

#15
Cody211282

Cody211282
  • Members
  • 2 541 messages
Ok you could have gone the smart route and actually added something to talk about but you decided the troll route was better.

dumb move dude.

#16
Savber100

Savber100
  • Members
  • 3 049 messages
If Laidlaw proves that he can't do DA justice (ironically despite being one of the original lead designer) then I would prefer Brent Knowles and Chris Avellone from Obsidian to take over.

Modifié par Savber100, 25 mars 2011 - 01:42 .


#17
Goldrock

Goldrock
  • Members
  • 217 messages
Dunno im loving this game sure only downfall ive seen and dont like is the repetative maps but i can almost guaranteed bioware will prolly use that too their advantage for more money and put out a map pack or something in the near future.maybe add more loot and add a random dungeon generator for people who beat the game.

#18
Ramtaku

Ramtaku
  • Members
  • 6 messages

Goldrock wrote...

Dunno im loving this game sure only downfall ive seen and dont like is the repetative maps but i can almost guaranteed bioware will prolly use that too their advantage for more money and put out a map pack or something in the near future.maybe add more loot and add a random dungeon generator for people who beat the game.



Does anyone else have a major problem with the underlying concept of this statement?

#19
Cody211282

Cody211282
  • Members
  • 2 541 messages

Savber100 wrote...

If Laidlaw proves that he can't do DA justice (ironically despite being one of the original lead designer) then I would prefer Brent Knowles and Chris Avellone from Obsidian to take over.


As much as I would love to see Brent Knowles back I think I would rather not have anyone from Obsidian in the game, sure they make a damn good story, but I have yet to play a game of theirs that isn't half way done and buggy as hell.

#20
DieHigh2012

DieHigh2012
  • Members
  • 620 messages

Savber100 wrote...

lol.. this discussion is likely going to get locked for what it implies.

But if Laidlaw proves that he can't do DA justice (ironically despite being one of the original lead designer) then I would prefer Brent Knowles and Chris Avellone from Obsidian to take over.


No no no, They ruined KotOR. I'd rather them not get the chance to do the same to DA.

#21
Cody211282

Cody211282
  • Members
  • 2 541 messages

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

lol.. this discussion is likely going to get locked for what it implies.

But if Laidlaw proves that he can't do DA justice (ironically despite being one of the original lead designer) then I would prefer Brent Knowles and Chris Avellone from Obsidian to take over.


No no no, They ruined KotOR. I'd rather them not get the chance to do the same to DA.


I'm also going to throw in NWN2 into the list of games Obsidean screwed up.

#22
AtreiyaN7

AtreiyaN7
  • Members
  • 8 392 messages

Chaos_1001 wrote...

RohanD wrote...

Careful, you may get banned for this


THIS ^


If you seriously think people get banned over disliking the game or being critical, there wouldn't be threads like this, would there? If someone likes the game, then there's really nothing to "discuss." Since the game was enjoyable overall for me, I think he did a good job - even though I'm critical about a few things.

#23
CRISIS1717

CRISIS1717
  • Members
  • 1 597 messages
Please Bioware cut loose Mike Laidlaw, and to EA I say give Bioware the support, funding and time to put things right again.

#24
Savber100

Savber100
  • Members
  • 3 049 messages
Obsidian is actually a fine company with many of their core members being part of Black Isle and Interplay which was highly influential on Bioware's emergence in the RPG world.

Also, Obsidian's bugs and incomplete games is usually due to rushed deadlines caused by a overly-greedy company like LucasArts (coughKOTOR2cough) or SEGA (an Obsisdian employee mentioned how a rushed deadline and creative restraints was why Alpha Protocol failed.)

Chris Avellone is the best designer as he helped influence the creation of both Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Fallout 2, and Planescape Torment. This guy is good... just give him an equally talented development team and plenty of time and we got a masterpiece.

Modifié par Savber100, 25 mars 2011 - 02:11 .


#25
DungeonLord

DungeonLord
  • Members
  • 170 messages
Using a deadline as an excuse for the game being lacking is pathetic. It wasn't ordained by some force of nature that DA2 had to be released when it was. They could have kept it for longer development, gotten it good and ready and fully fleshed out, but someone got greedy and decided that wasn't necessary.
I'm not sure Mike Laidlaw deserves the blame for that, but he does bear blame for the poor design decisions that managed to make their way into the game.