518 réponses à ce sujet

[petipas1414]

Savber100 wrote...

If Laidlaw proves that he can't do DA justice (ironically despite being one of the original lead designer) then I would prefer Brent Knowles and Chris Avellone from Obsidian to take over.

^ Don't joke about that.

And I think this Laidlaw dude did an awesome job with the time frame. It just pisses me off when Priestly comes up into a thread saying the game wasn't rushed... every one denies it. A shame the composer spilled the beans a few weeks back

[UnstableMongoose]

accessd wrote...

If DA3 is coming out in 2012 then sadly I think DA:O is the only game in the series worth playing.

They just can't make a worthy follow up to a great game like DA:O in a year.

Best review of the game so far:
http://www.gamecriti...w#comment-38568

Now read his DA:O review:
http://www.gamecriti...-origins-review

He is spot on.

Mr. Mike Laidlaw should read these.

Sweeping generalizations plague that GC review. It's rushed, biased garbage. A completion time of 22 hours proves that he skipped basically everything about the game that was good in a mad rush to the finish. He's been waiting to write that super-negative review, sitting on tenterhooks. You can't exactly ascribe integrity to someone who posts three articles blasting the game before he even bothers to put out a half-page review. It resonates with popular opinion about several concepts, but the number of reasonable people that would give it a score that low is negligible. There's plenty of intelligent discussion of its flaws without having to fall back on trash like GC.

[petipas1414]

UnstableMongoose wrote...

accessd wrote...

If DA3 is coming out in 2012 then sadly I think DA:O is the only game in the series worth playing.

They just can't make a worthy follow up to a great game like DA:O in a year.

Best review of the game so far:
http://www.gamecriti...w#comment-38568

Now read his DA:O review:
http://www.gamecriti...-origins-review

He is spot on.

Mr. Mike Laidlaw should read these.

Sweeping generalizations plague that GC review. It's rushed, biased garbage. A completion time of 22 hours proves that he skipped basically everything about the game that was good in a mad rush to the finish. He's been waiting to write that super-negative review, sitting on tenterhooks. You can't exactly ascribe integrity to someone who posts three articles blasting the game before he even bothers to put out a half-page review. It resonates with popular opinion about several concepts, but the number of reasonable people that would give it a score that low is negligible. There's plenty of intelligent discussion of its flaws without having to fall back on trash like GC.

maybe you'd prefer destructoid or gamespot?

Modifié par petipas1414, 25 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[Booger]

I've Been thinking this myself, ML should be replaced. Reading his comments about the game it almost seems like there is a disconnect between the players and himself as a developer. I wonder if he really understands why we play rpgs and if he even enjoys them. He says we have to accept the idea that the game needs to evolve. Well, he's liable to evolve them into extinction.

[DSGrant]

I said it elsewhere, but I'll say it again here:

Having worked in the software industry, I don't buy the "rushed development" excuse I've seen mentioned a few dozen times. If you know you only have a year for a project and the deadline is not negotiable, you compensate by hiring more resources in order to accomplish more in the time that you do have. Certainly that represents a larger investment in terms of the money spent to hire all the additional people you need, but improving the quality from good to great will have huge dividends that will easily justify the return on investment. Either Bioware didn't do this, or EA didn't provide them sufficient financial support to allow them to do it. So they took shortcuts to make their delivery date, and as anyone can read from the pages and pages of feedback, it was painfully obvious to the fans who expected a higher quality product. DA2 was a good game, but it was not a great game. I think Bioware realizes that too, so there's no need to belabor the point. Hopefully they'll take that as a lesson learned as they continue with development for DA3 and ME3.

That all being said, I don't think you can hold just one person responsible given the way the software industry works. It was likely EA who underestimated the budget and time needed to make the game as good as Origins. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that a game sequel could be made in 1 to 1.5 years that would be on par with the original that took 7 years to make. Nevertheless, I think Bioware should have made that argument to EA and insisted on more time and/or more budget. Basically, EA and Bioware both share accountability for the results of DA2 - that it failed to be a truly great game, as Origins was, is not the sole responsibility of Mr. Laidlaw.

[lobi]

I paid $60 for DA2 and got DA3/Beta. I also think Goldman was a huge part of the problem.

Modifié par lobi, 25 mars 2011 - 08:24 .

[FedericoV]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Discuss.

Edit:  To those of you saying this is a hate thread or personal attack.

But it's a personal attack.

You have written one of the most self-entitled, rude and immature thread I've ever read. I'm ashamed of that community. I suppose that the only thing you have studied in economy is the way "not" to make money. I hope that the same thing happens to you some day: some no-one that writes on a popular board that he hopes you'll be fired just to have some attention.

You are talking of the carreer and the life of a person and you should respect it no matter your like/dislike of DA2, a thing that no one will be interested in since you payed the game nonetheless (since you studied a lot of economy and devoted you whole life to it, it's strange that you have forgotten that you have allready voted with your wallet).

Modifié par FedericoV, 25 mars 2011 - 08:45 .

[lobi]

FedericoV wrote...

Ronin2006 wrote...

Discuss.

Edit:  To those of you saying this is a hate thread or personal attack.

But it's a personal attack.

You have written one of the most self-entitled, rude and immature thread I've ever read. I'm ashamed of that community. I suppose that the only thing you have studied in economy is the way "not" to make money. I hope that the same thing happens to you some day: some no-one that writes on a popular board that he hopes you'll be fired just to have some attention.

You are talking of the carreer and the life of a person and you should respect it no matter your like/dislike of DA2, a thing that no one will be interested in since you payed the game nonetheless (since you studied a lot of economy and devoted you whole life to it, it's strange that you have forgotten that you have allready voted with your wallet).

Are you OK? Do you want some ice cream?

[RohanD]

FedericoV wrote...

Ronin2006 wrote...

Discuss.

Edit:  To those of you saying this is a hate thread or personal attack.

But it's a personal attack.

You have written one of the most self-entitled, rude and immature thread I've ever read. I'm ashamed of that community. I suppose that the only thing you have studied in economy is the way "not" to make money. I hope that the same thing happens to you some day: some no-one that writes on a popular board that he hopes you'll be fired just to have some attention.

You are talking of the carreer and the life of a person and you should respect it no matter your like/dislike of DA2, a thing that no one will be interested in since you payed the game nonetheless (since you studied a lot of economy and devoted you whole life to it, it's strange that you have forgotten that you have allready voted with your wallet).

So you think that people who are lead designers behind bad games should never be called out on it and should be kept in their job because hey, it's their life and career?

That's not the way it works buddy. If politicians screw up, we call them out, because they wasted our tax money on a road that doesn't solve any problems for instance.

Bioware made a game we paid for and didn't like, so we are calling them out, and because Laidlaw is the Lead Designer, he has to take it. That is part of his responsibility in the career that he chose to get into. If he can't take the heat he shouldn't be the lead or he should have made a better game. 

Modifié par RohanD, 25 mars 2011 - 08:59 .

[Dave of Canada]

Yes, somebody should lose their job because the forums are unhappy.

/notserious

[FedericoV]

lobi wrote...

Are you OK? Do you want some ice cream?

Is it a reply? Now, now, go... or you'll be late for the kindergarden.

Modifié par FedericoV, 25 mars 2011 - 09:15 .

[FedericoV]

]

So you think that people who are lead designers behind bad games should never be called out on it and should be kept in their job because hey, it's their life and career?

No. I only think that:

a)The average poster (my self included) have not the necessary knowledge about the game industry (in general and talking about Bioware/DA2) to express an informed and responsible opinion about such a delicate topic like the carreer of a person. You simply don't know and your mother should have told you that if you don't know it's better to suspend any kind judgement.

It's very rude to discuss the carreer of a person and it's allways wrong to confuse an idea (good or not) with the person who express that idea. "Shoot the message not the messanger" anyone? It's so self evident that I'm really sorry for you if you ain't able to understand.

That's not the way it works buddy. If politicians screw up, we call them out, because they wasted our tax money on a road that doesn't solve any problems for instance.

Listen "buddy", Laidlaw was not elected by popular vote and have not wasted "our" money. Are you 5 or what? It's not your call and most important the fact that you made a parallel between a politician and a game designer talk for itself. 

Bioware made a game we paid for and didn't like, so we are calling them out, and because Laidlaw is the Lead Designer, he has to take it. That is part of his responsibility in the career that he chose to get into. If he can't take the heat he shouldn't be the lead or he should have made a better game. 

You can discuss the game as much as you want. You do not like it? Fine. You hate it? Fine. Sell it to the bargain bin, do what you you want. But discuss the game. Mixing the carreer of a person with that it's not insulting for him, but for you.

Modifié par FedericoV, 25 mars 2011 - 09:34 .

[Corto81]

I can't know for sure Mike is responsible for some of the severe lackings in DA2.

But I do know I feel like he's insulting my intelligence when he tries to spin some complete rubbish into something amazing.

[Zzgashi]

18 months has never been anywhere near close to long enough for a respectable product, and I think DA2 despite all it's shortcomings, is actually quite impressive considering the timeframe.

[Arijharn]

For the record; I agree completely with FedericoV.

Sure, there are some things that I don't quite like about DA2 (where the hell is my 'delete save game' button... Going into console management for that is just a plain stupid design decision in my humble opinion, why is Merril so quick to tell me she loves me? personally I'm not to fond of the whole swing 'arc' idea of 2handed warriors either) but to call (or to even 'hint') that it should fire somebody is a bit rough

[Wolfva2]

I'm going to agree with FedericoV as well. It's easy to sit back and discuss matters which you have NO comprehension of because, in the complete and utter lack of knowledge you don't realize just how stupid you are being. Demanding that someone be fired just because you personally don't like his work? Sheesh.

Ya know, I read a book recently I didn't like very much. Even though it's a best seller, and this guy has sold a bunch of other books, I think I'll write his publisher and demand that they NEVER publish any more of his books because I didn't like it. Oh sure, a bunch of other people DID like it, but so what? What do they know? They need ME to tell them what they like, and to protect them from their lack of taste. Right?

[Rykoth]

The problem isn't with Bioware.

The problem is with the ungrateful fans who always find something to whine about.

"We want this this and this."
- New game comes out with those requests -
"HOW DARE YOU"

[Bowhunter4L]

This game was clearly rushed with all the freezing issues and other complaints. We can all blame EA and other issues but in the end it falls onto Biowares shoulders (they did make the game). IMO they need to seriously clean house and hire people that truely care what they are creating.Because the final product does not show it and before getting ripped on just remember thousands upon thousands of people complaining about the game does have merit.It proves that this game is seriously flawed.

[Chiramu]

Rykoth wrote...

The problem isn't with Bioware.

The problem is with the ungrateful fans who always find something to whine about.

"We want this this and this."
- New game comes out with those requests -
"HOW DARE YOU"

Very true

[Dridengx]

I see a lot of naive posters claiming devs need to spend more time, give more time, stop being greedy. I'd like them to think for a second how much each employee is being paid and how long an average gaming cycle is. now, think again how stupid you sound when you call a company 'greedy' for trying to stay afloat to make money back.

You actually think they want to hear you crying? seeing stocks pludge? seeing bad reviews? getting bad rep on their name? You think they wouldn't take more time if they had it? THINK for a second, this isn't Blizzard sitting on billions off their MMO that could take 15yrs to make a hack n slash.


Also, take into account, Bioware is now apart of EA. they may not have as much control as you think. everyone has deadlines if you work in an office. you do what you can with the time you have. I happen to think Bioware is amazing and continues to prove me right each title

Modifié par Dridengx, 25 mars 2011 - 11:28 .

[Pwnsaur]

Chiramu wrote...

Rykoth wrote...

The problem isn't with Bioware.

The problem is with the ungrateful fans who always find something to whine about.

"We want this this and this."
- New game comes out with those requests -
"HOW DARE YOU"

Very true

Graciousness is warranted in the face of charity. In the circumstances of capitalism, being gracious for paying for a product that disappointed you is absurd. As an added note, I don't remember fans begging for a shorter game, less dialogue, less skills, recycled environments, no non-combat skills, more bugs, less NPC interaction and a higher price tag. Being completely intolerant of one side of an argument does not extinguish the validity of that argument.

[Zanderat]

Savber100 wrote...

If Laidlaw proves that he can't do DA justice (ironically despite being one of the original lead designer) then I would prefer Brent Knowles and Chris Avellone from Obsidian to take over.

ML was brought in AFTER DAO went gold.  It is Brent's game.

[e1team]

YohkoOhno wrote...

I've seen nothing to suggest ML is doing a bad job.

This

[Dan UK]

Rykoth wrote...

The problem isn't with Bioware.

The problem is with the ungrateful fans who always find something to whine about.

 Yeah I wish people would just shut up instead if making it known they were dissapointed with a product. Its like someone who orders a cheeseburger and gets served a chicken sandwich, SHUT THE HELL UP AND EAT YOUR DAMN FOOD.