245 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Non linear games often suck because you can't build a tight storyline and good characters and make things very non linear.

[Persephone]

paptschik wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Suron wrote...
Go to two different caves and come back and point out the differences
between the two..hell tell me the MAP ITSELF isn't the exact same with
just new boulders blocking your path.  you're blind if you're actually
trying to argue this.


but seriously..I'm not arguing fact vs
opinion.  YOu didn't like the content in DA:O..fine...that doesn't
change facts about DA2 just because you PREFER smaller re-used areas
over individual longer areas doesn't mean DA2 has even a fraction of the
content of DA:O

but whatever..I got dragged into a brainless
argument putting opinion vs fact.  your liking a type of content over
another doesn't change whether or not that particular thing has more or
less content.  again..fact vs opinion.

fact vs opinion.  DA:O has more content then DA2..that's fact.  you however like MORE of the content DA2 had over what DA:O had even if it was more..that's your OPINION.

do you get it yet? fact vs opinion.

thanks for playing :-D

You keep implying that reusing areas detracts from the quality of a game, that a game's quality is directly related to its level of content, yet you fail to back that up. Tell me, is there some scale for when or how much the reusing of areas detracts from the game? Can an area only be used X times? When Y number of bytes is repeated content, is that too much? Or for each repeated bit of content, is the quality reduced by Z%? Just because you believe that does not make it so.

All humans share the same skeleton, so, tell me, should every character in DA2 have a different skeleton? Should ever rock, every tree, every shrub, every blade of grass, and every scrap of texture be hand-made so that no two are alike? Content is always reused in games, and yet you judge DA2 more harshly for it than other games. But no meterstick exists for that sort of thing.

You believe that DA2 reuses too much of its content. The fact is, there's no way to judge that. It's your opinion.

Fact vs. Opinion.

It would help if the reused maps were more interesting or diverse or much larger.

While I think that the copy-paste-dungeons are a bit annoying let me say: FOR HEAVENS SAKE DON'T MAKE THE MAPS LARGER!
Larger (or even worse, open world) is in MY opinion, the first step to becoming outright boring. It's one of the reasons I nearly fall asleep every time I try to play Oblivion. It also lessens the replay value.

Agreed. The dragged out dungeons of DAO are a major annoyance in my case because there was no plot related relevance there. I LOVE the "Skip the Fade" Mod. There's a reason why that thing is so popular. Would I have liked more diverse maps (At least changes in color, clutter, vegetation...) ? Sure. Is it game breaking? Not to me.

[Darth Obvious]

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

Modifié par Darth Obvious, 25 mars 2011 - 02:42 .

[Persephone]

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

See, in my opinion it's the EXACT opposite. And I still think the Sonic handheld game is the worst game they ever made. Shortly followed by the bug fest called Dragon Age: Awakening.

[Miashi]

Nerivant wrote...
You believe that DA2 reuses too much of its content. The fact is, there's no way to judge that. It's your opinion.

Fact vs. Opinion.

Fact is Neverwinter Nights reused a lot of cave and house presets and that was a flaw that a lot of players complained about. One would think they had learned from their mistake when they did DA:O but DA:2 proved otherwise.

Modifié par Miashi, 25 mars 2011 - 02:53 .

[Darth Obvious]

Persephone wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

See, in my opinion it's the EXACT opposite.

So the patently ridiculous and painfully repetitive spawning of enemy "waves" in DA2 didn't bore you to death? In every single fight (except the Arishok) more enemies would just appear out of nowhere, again and again. It was laughable.

How about the horrendous recycling of environments? It's pretty sad that by the end of the 1st act you've already memorized every map because you have played it so many times. Could they have found a way to make the game even more boring?

How about the stupid plot? They set up a perfectly epic enemy (Arishok and the Qunari), only to make them merely a sideshow to the utterly lame Meredith and the annoying mage/Templar conflict. As I've said before, that was one of the most boneheaded things Bioware has ever done.

This game is a disgrace.

[paptschik]

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

I think it is a bit better than Origins. Both are flawed, but both are more fun than most other games of this generation or in general.
The "worst" Bioware game I played was Jade Empire and that too was fantastic. I think all this hate etc. is a result of being spoiled by glorious bioware games. Either way, personally, if DA2 is bad...then wow, I wish any other game released this year would be that bad.

But maybe I just tend to focus on the stuff I like too much and just generally enjoy things too much.

[paptschik]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

See, in my opinion it's the EXACT opposite.

So the patently ridiculous and painfully repetitive spawning of enemy "waves" in DA2 didn't bore you to death? In every single fight (except the Arishok) more enemies would just appear out of nowhere, again and again. It was laughable.

How about the horrendous recycling of environments? It's pretty sad that by the end of the 1st act you've already memorized every map because you have played it so many times. Could they have found a way to make the game even more boring?

How about the stupid plot? They set up a perfectly epic enemy (Arishok and the Qunari), only to make them merely a sideshow to the utterly lame Meredith and the annoying mage/Templar conflict. As I've said before, that was one of the most boneheaded things Bioware has ever done.

This game is a disgrace.

And the combat was still much more enjoyable than in DAO. One of the biggest improvements!

And I liked the plot just fine.

[Lithuasil]

Darth Obvious wrote...

So the patently ridiculous and painfully repetitive spawning of enemy "waves" in DA2 didn't bore you to death? In every single fight (except the Arishok) more enemies would just appear out of nowhere, again and again. It was laughable.

It did. It just wasn't nowhere near as tedious as wiping out more dwarfs then are ever seen at any point in the game, ever again, just to get to Jarvia. For instance.

Darth Obvious wrote...
How about the horrendous recycling of environments? It's pretty sad that by the end of the 1st act you've already memorized every map because you have played it so many times. Could they have found a way to make the game even more boring?

They *could* have handcrafted the dungeons but made them fifteen times longer then necessary. Boy, that would be one boring game wouldn't it, if you'd only enter like ten dungeons, stitched together from the same set pieces, dragging on for way, way, way too long.

Darth Obvious wrote..
How about the stupid plot? They set up a perfectly epic enemy (Arishok and the Qunari), only to make them merely a sideshow to the utterly lame Meredith and the annoying mage/Templar conflict. As I've said before, that was one of the most boneheaded things Bioware has ever done.

This game is a disgrace.

Yep, always those generic conflicts between human beings, with relateable positions, and difficult moral dilemmas. Let's just fight the borg instead, they have horns, so much more epic!

Dude. You're stating opinions. People happen to not share those.

[Darth Obvious]

The fanboism on this site is hilarious. Why go to such desperate lengths to defend such a poor excuse for a game?

[ViperXVII]

Lithuasil wrote...
It did. It just wasn't nowhere near as tedious as wiping out more dwarfs
then are ever seen at any point in the game, ever again, just to get to
Jarvia. For instance.

The difference being you fought what you saw (which was 6 at a time at most, not 5+5+5), and they never re-spawned in the place you'd just killed them 5 minutes ago.

Lithuasil wrote...
They *could* have handcrafted the dungeons but made them fifteen times longer then necessary. Boy, that would be one boring game wouldn't it, if you'd only enter like ten dungeons, stitched together from the same set pieces, dragging on for way, way, way too long.

Are you kidding? How about Instead of a meta-dungeon having 6 smaller ones? DA:O recycled elements, but it did so in a not-so-obvious way.

Lithuasil wrote...
Yep, always those generic conflicts between human beings, with relateable positions, and difficult moral dilemmas. Let's just fight the borg instead, they have horns, so much more epic!

Relateable positions? Do you live in Hogwarts?
Difficult moral dilemmas? Which you can't fix or change in any way?
Borg? With Horns?

Lithuasil wrote...
Dude. You're stating opinions. People happen to not share those.

Yes he is. And you're the only one on so a high horse as to actually tell him to shut up for stating his, when its your arguments that make no sense.

No offense intended.

[Nerivant]

Darth Obvious wrote...

The fanboism on this site is hilarious. Why go to such desperate lengths to defend such a poor excuse for a game?

Because many people enjoy the game?

[Persephone]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

See, in my opinion it's the EXACT opposite.

So the patently ridiculous and painfully repetitive spawning of enemy "waves" in DA2 didn't bore you to death? In every single fight (except the Arishok) more enemies would just appear out of nowhere, again and again. It was laughable.

How about the horrendous recycling of environments? It's pretty sad that by the end of the 1st act you've already memorized every map because you have played it so many times. Could they have found a way to make the game even more boring?

How about the stupid plot? They set up a perfectly epic enemy (Arishok and the Qunari), only to make them merely a sideshow to the utterly lame Meredith and the annoying mage/Templar conflict. As I've said before, that was one of the most boneheaded things Bioware has ever done.

This game is a disgrace.

No, the waves did not bore me to death. The Deep Roads and the Fade in DAO did.

I already explained my stance on reused enviroments.

I LOVED the plot. And while Act III could have been better, it's still much more interesting than DAO's "Kill the dragon" finale. To ME.

To YOU the game is a disgrace. To ME it is a much needed and welcome breath of fresh air.

[paptschik]

Darth Obvious wrote...

The fanboism on this site is hilarious. Why go to such desperate lengths to defend such a poor excuse for a game?

Because we genuinely think it is fantastic? I mean...why go to such desperate lengths to hate on a game that is, objectively speaking, at WORST still just plain "good"?
If Dragon Age is a poor excuse for a game, what would you call ET? Superman 64? Iron Man?

[DrGulag]

Darth Obvious,

Obviously correct on all counts. Atleast I could tolerate the endless enemies in Diablo since I was playing a necromancer and skeletons would do all the work.

I dont know what kind of a person finds fighting in "Days of our lives in Kirkwall" exciting. You just mash one button constantly, it's like my 10 year old nephew when he plays Super Street Fighter with me. I didn't think Bioware could do any worse after Jade Empire but I was wrong.

DA2 simply has the worst gameplay mechanics I've had to endure since Hokuto Musou from KOEI. The absolute worst PS3 games I have in my collection.

Modifié par DrGulag, 25 mars 2011 - 03:23 .

[Persephone]

Darth Obvious wrote...

The fanboism on this site is hilarious. Why go to such desperate lengths to defend such a poor excuse for a game?

Back to that, are we? Everyone who likes the game = Fanboy/Fangirl. Does that mean....Everyone who hates the game = hater/troll is accurate too?

How very productive indeed.

[Lithuasil]

ViperXVII wrote...




The difference being you fought what you saw (which was 6 at a time at most, not 5+5+5), and they never re-spawned in the place you'd just killed them 5 minutes ago.

The question is - what would I get by proving you wrong and showing you a screenshot with considerably more then six enemies on the screen?

ViperXVII wrote...

Are you kidding? How about Instead of a meta-dungeon having 6 smaller ones? DA:O recycled elements, but it did so in a not-so-obvious way.

Sure DA2 recycled too much. I never defended that. I'm just saying *I* would rather have it this way, then having something like the deep roads or andrastes temple back.

ViperXVII wrote...

Relateable positions? Do you live in Hogwarts?
Difficult moral dilemmas? Which you can't fix or change in any way?
Borg? With Horns?

Ah, insults. Still the highest form of intellectual debate. Feel free to show me a game that makes me care about the conflict more then DA2 did. Origins most certainly didn't. That's an opinion. Difference being, I can nail that opinion to certain narrative elements, and tell you were my opinion comes from. He can't.

ViperXVII wrote...

Yes he is. And you're the only one on so a high horse as to actually tell him to shut up for stating his, when its your arguments that make no sense.

No offense intended.

There's no arguments being exchanged here - he's spouting insults to everyone who liked the game, and calls the game a disgrace. I tell him to either bring reasons for this statement, that are not purely subjective, or to shut up because his claim has no business being this harsh (or existing for that matter) if he does not.

[paptschik]

DrGulag wrote...

Darth Obvious,

Obviously correct on all counts. Atleast I could tolerate the endless enemies in Diablo since I was playing a necromancer and didn't have to mash one button all the time.

I dont know what kind of a person finds fighting in "Days of our lives in Kirkwall" exciting. You just mash one button constantly, it's like my 10 year old nephew when he plays Super Street Fighter with me.

DA2 simply has the worst gameplay mechanics I've had to endure since Hokuto Musou from KOEI (worst PS3 game with DA2 I have purchased)

I'm the kind of person that finds it exciting. (aside from the fights, I LOVE that most of the game is pretty much "Life in Kirkwall" without the big epic story)

And I loved the fighting, because it was fun and it felt like...stuff actually happened.

[Nerivant]

DrGulag wrote...
You just mash one button constantly, it's like my 10 year old nephew when he plays Super Street Fighter with me. I didn't think Bioware could do any worse after Jade Empire but I was wrong.

DA2 simply has the worst gameplay mechanics I've had to endure since Hokuto Musou from KOEI. The absolute worst PS3 games I have in my collection.

Maybe you should play it on PC. Maybe you'd find the combat more enjoyable.

[Darth Obvious]

DrGulag wrote...

Darth Obvious,

Obviously correct on all counts. Atleast I could tolerate the endless enemies in Diablo since I was playing a necromancer and skeletons would do all the work.

I dont know what kind of a person finds fighting in "Days of our lives in Kirkwall" exciting. You just mash one button constantly, it's like my 10 year old nephew when he plays Super Street Fighter with me. I didn't think Bioware could do any worse after Jade Empire but I was wrong.

DA2 simply has the worst gameplay mechanics I've had to endure since Hokuto Musou from KOEI. The absolute worst PS3 games I have in my collection.

Yeah seriously.

DA2, where every two-bit thug has wave after wave of magical allies that simply appear out of nowhere during every battle... where every cave is exactly like every other cave... where virtually all CHOICE has been taken away from the player, to the point of brain-dead absurdity.... oh, and let's not forget the disaster that is the plot.

I don't think Bioware could make DA2 more lame if they tried, and it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the game gets only a 4 out of 10 by the fans on metacritic.

Modifié par Darth Obvious, 25 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[Miashi]

PC version is way better. I made the terrible mistake of buying it for XBOX and the mashing button fest is soul-crushing. The game made me bitter to no end.

Please please please, anyone that reads this should avoid the console version at all costs. The PC version is definitely better.

[Persephone]

Darth Obvious wrote...

I don't think Bioware could make DA2 more lame if they tried, and it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the game gets only 4 out of 10 stars by the fans on metacritic.

The fans on Metacritic? "Fan" ratings there are so obviously skewed, trolled, manipulated (Both ways) and unrealistic, I find it hard to take that place seriously. 

[paptschik]

Darth Obvious wrote...

DrGulag wrote...

Darth Obvious,

Obviously correct on all counts. Atleast I could tolerate the endless enemies in Diablo since I was playing a necromancer and skeletons would do all the work.

I dont know what kind of a person finds fighting in "Days of our lives in Kirkwall" exciting. You just mash one button constantly, it's like my 10 year old nephew when he plays Super Street Fighter with me. I didn't think Bioware could do any worse after Jade Empire but I was wrong.

DA2 simply has the worst gameplay mechanics I've had to endure since Hokuto Musou from KOEI. The absolute worst PS3 games I have in my collection.

Yeah seriously.

DA2, where every two-bit thug has wave after wave of magical allies that simply appear out of nowhere during every battle... where every cave is exactly like every other cave... where virtually all CHOICE has been taken away from the player, to the point of brain-dead absurdity.... oh, and let's not forget the disaster that is the plot.

I don't think Bioware could make DA2 more lame if they tried, and it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the game gets only 4 out of 10 stars by the fans on metacritic.

Yet I see people loving the game left and right.
DA2 is one of those games that will get irrational hate for a while before they realize "oh yeah, it was flawed, but boy did we blow things way out of proportion with our hate back then".
"Not as you wanted it" does not equal "worst game in history". 

[Lithuasil]

Miashi wrote...

PC version is way better. I made the terrible mistake of buying it for XBOX and the mashing button fest is soul-crushing. The game made me bitter to no end.

Please please please, anyone that reads this should avoid the console version at all costs. The PC version is definitely better.

This might actually be the most valid point raised in this thread (allbeit one I can't really comment on, given I don't get payed enough to afford any consoles). Care to elaborate on how combat works on the xbox?

[errant_knight]

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

Loved the inventory system myself. It added greatly to gameplay. Loved the deep roads, too. I did think that the combat could be tweaked (and by that I mean changed slightly -ie faster sword swings, but not inhumanly fast or withought weight and gravity) The thing is, we have two sides here that will never agree. They should have made a new franchise if they wanted to make a game in such a different style. All they've done here is make it so that half their fanbase will be angry and disappointed no matter which way they go in the future.