245 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Obvious]

Persephone wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

I don't think Bioware could make DA2 more lame if they tried, and it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the game gets only 4 out of 10 stars by the fans on metacritic.

The fans on Metacritic? "Fan" ratings there are so obviously skewed, trolled, manipulated (Both ways) and unrealistic, I find it hard to take that place seriously. 

Yeah right, so it's just a coincidence that so many people agree? I've yet to find a single intelligent human being on this earth who likes the game at all.

And the criticisms are remarkably consistent, by the way. That makes it pretty much impossible to rationalize that the criticism is just from trolling.

[paptschik]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

I don't think Bioware could make DA2 more lame if they tried, and it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the game gets only 4 out of 10 stars by the fans on metacritic.

The fans on Metacritic? "Fan" ratings there are so obviously skewed, trolled, manipulated (Both ways) and unrealistic, I find it hard to take that place seriously. 

Yeah right, so it's just a coincidence that so many people agree? I've yet to find a single intelligent human being on this earth who likes the game at all.

And the criticisms are remarkably consistent, by the way. That makes it pretty much impossible to rationalize that the criticism is just from trolling.

The criticism is from people that wanted something different than what they got. Doesn't make the game bad in and of itself.

And thanks again for calling everyone that likes the game stupid. It's nice to know that the people hating this game are all so well behaved and nice to be around. Makes one truly appreciate your opinion.

[Persephone]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

I don't think Bioware could make DA2 more lame if they tried, and it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the game gets only 4 out of 10 stars by the fans on metacritic.

The fans on Metacritic? "Fan" ratings there are so obviously skewed, trolled, manipulated (Both ways) and unrealistic, I find it hard to take that place seriously. 

Yeah right, so it's just a coincidence that so many people agree? I've yet to find a single intelligent human being on this earth who likes the game at all.

Just as many agree that it's a great game. Neither faction is right or wrong.

As for the bolded part: Whoever needs to rely on such vitriol and self absorbed arrogance to get his point across doesn't convince me in the slightest. If a consensus had been reached like that, why do you think people keep arguing over DAO and DA2? Different strokes for different folks.

[Miashi]

Lithuasil wrote...

Miashi wrote...

PC version is way better. I made the terrible mistake of buying it for XBOX and the mashing button fest is soul-crushing. The game made me bitter to no end.

Please please please, anyone that reads this should avoid the console version at all costs. The PC version is definitely better.

This might actually be the most valid point raised in this thread (allbeit one I can't really comment on, given I don't get payed enough to afford any consoles). Care to elaborate on how combat works on the xbox?

There's no autoattack. You gotta mash that green button until your thumb goes blue.

[Anariel Theirin]

errant_knight wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

Loved the inventory system myself. It added greatly to gameplay. Loved the deep roads, too. I did think that the combat could be tweaked (and by that I mean changed slightly -ie faster sword swings, but not inhumanly fast or withought weight and gravity) The thing is, we have two sides here that will never agree. They should have made a new franchise if they wanted to make a game in such a different style. All they've done here is make it so that half their fanbase will be angry and disappointed no matter which way they go in the future.

This is probably the fairest argument I've heard yet.  Yes, absolutely, some people loved the Origins style and are disappointed in DA2.  Their opinion is completely valid.  And yes, some people love DA2's style better and weren't too crazy about Origins.  Their opinion is also completely valid.  

This whole "omg shut up you're wrong cuz other people like/hate it" crap is tiring.  Everyone has a right to an opinion, and a right to express it.

[Haussier]

I have to say I hated the reuse of maps so badly I dont think I can replay the game. Second I truly dislike some of the things they did with the combat system such as the teleporting mages and the boss creatures with unending health and poltices. No one wants a boss creature to fully heal mid combat... darn assissins I hated them.. killed tanks in one hit at times. In the end this game was "consolized," even the pc version, which kinda disappointed me.. console rpgs are never as good as pc ones after all. (I prefer consoles btw)

The story was pretty good. I enjoyed it.. not as much as origins but hey can't expect gold from straw right? What I really enjoyed though was the progression of some of the party members. They did good work on side quests as well.

This game over all is a good game.. it just isn't DAO's sequel in any sense of the word.

Modifié par Haussier, 25 mars 2011 - 03:45 .

[Miashi]

paptschik wrote...
Yet I see people loving the game left and right.
DA2 is one of those games that will get irrational hate for a while before they realize "oh yeah, it was flawed, but boy did we blow things way out of proportion with our hate back then".
"Not as you wanted it" does not equal "worst game in history". 

Dragon Age 2 is a game that was heavily publicized on social networks (more than Mass Effect 2 was, actually), therefore generated a lot of anticipation. Mass Effect 2 was the last major title that bioware released prior to DA:2. I think that many players were expecting DA:2 to be on par or surpass ME:2.

You can't really be surprised that a lot of people are vocal about their discontent.

[Anariel Theirin]

Miashi wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

Miashi wrote...

PC version is way better. I made the terrible mistake of buying it for XBOX and the mashing button fest is soul-crushing. The game made me bitter to no end.

Please please please, anyone that reads this should avoid the console version at all costs. The PC version is definitely better.

This might actually be the most valid point raised in this thread (allbeit one I can't really comment on, given I don't get payed enough to afford any consoles). Care to elaborate on how combat works on the xbox?

There's no autoattack. You gotta mash that green button until your thumb goes blue.

It's terrible!  I played PS3, and I don't mind button-masher games (love the God of War series, for example), but it's completely ridiculous and makes combat exhausting, as well as takes the fun out of it.  I wish I played on PC for that reason, but I don't want to buy the game twice now.

[Persephone]

paptschik wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

I don't think Bioware could make DA2 more lame if they tried, and it shouldn't be much of a surprise that the game gets only 4 out of 10 stars by the fans on metacritic.

The fans on Metacritic? "Fan" ratings there are so obviously skewed, trolled, manipulated (Both ways) and unrealistic, I find it hard to take that place seriously. 

Yeah right, so it's just a coincidence that so many people agree? I've yet to find a single intelligent human being on this earth who likes the game at all.

And the criticisms are remarkably consistent, by the way. That makes it pretty much impossible to rationalize that the criticism is just from trolling.

The criticism is from people that wanted something different than what they got. Doesn't make the game bad in and of itself.

And thanks again for calling everyone that likes the game stupid. It's nice to know that the people hating this game are all so well behaved and nice to be around. Makes one truly appreciate your opinion.

This. A little story: My roommate is a passionate RPG player. She adores the classics and also some newer titles. (She loves Gothic IV...well, someone has to! :P) And she hates DAO and most Bioware games for the same reasons I love them. Do I think she is stupid for having different taste? Hardly.

[ViperXVII]

Lithuasil wrote...
The question is - what would I get by proving you wrong and showing you a screenshot with considerably more then six enemies on the screen?

You're talking about end-dungeons or boss fights, if memory serves. Which is fine, they're supposed to be tough. But this game practices the spawn three times too many enemies on almost every encounter. This leads to massive frustration on the player's part, because everytime you defeat a wave you know there's just more coming.

Lithuasil wrote...
Ah, insults. Still the highest form of intellectual debate. Feel free to show me a game that makes me care about the conflict more then DA2 did. Origins most certainly didn't. That's an opinion. Difference being, I can nail that opinion to certain narrative elements, and tell you were my opinion comes from. He can't.

It's not insults. It's questions coupled with sarcastic statements for a bit of humour. You claimed the problems were releatable. I claim that 90% of the player base differs. DA 2 makes it very hard to be releatable to because it

1) Acts in unpredictable ways and constantly changes the players information radically. (I thought that perhaps Meredith would be able to make Anders calm down, since she seemed reasonable in Act 2. Then boom act 3 she goes mad because of the sword's influence.

2)  Closes off options that should be available to the player and ignores player input blatantly at times. In best served cold, you get betrayed by the mages EVEN if you are a mage and/or helped the mages. This is just frustating to the player because it spells out: FIXED STORYLINE. DA:O would end up with the same result, but rewarding or punishing the player for their decissions (see any DAO quest for this).

Lithuasil wrote...
There's no arguments being exchanged here - he's spouting insults to everyone who liked the game, and calls the game a disgrace. I tell him to either bring reasons for this statement, that are not purely subjective, or to shut up because his claim has no business being this harsh (or existing for that matter) if he does not.

IMO if he wishes to call it a disgrace he has a right. And you just told him to go cry in a corner or something to that effect if memory serves.

Modifié par ViperXVII, 25 mars 2011 - 03:56 .

[Persephone]

Anariel Theirin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

DA:O wasn't perfect. It had it's flaws, such as the incredibly tedious inventory system and the quests that would seemingly never end (e.g. Deep Roads).

With DA2, Bioware fixed those flaws, but the problem is that they introduced several far worse flaws that make DA2 not only much worse than DA:O, but worse than any other Bioware game in history.

Loved the inventory system myself. It added greatly to gameplay. Loved the deep roads, too. I did think that the combat could be tweaked (and by that I mean changed slightly -ie faster sword swings, but not inhumanly fast or withought weight and gravity) The thing is, we have two sides here that will never agree. They should have made a new franchise if they wanted to make a game in such a different style. All they've done here is make it so that half their fanbase will be angry and disappointed no matter which way they go in the future.

This is probably the fairest argument I've heard yet.  Yes, absolutely, some people loved the Origins style and are disappointed in DA2.  Their opinion is completely valid.  And yes, some people love DA2's style better and weren't too crazy about Origins.  Their opinion is also completely valid.  

This whole "omg shut up you're wrong cuz other people like/hate it" crap is tiring.  Everyone has a right to an opinion, and a right to express it.

Agreed. As long as the exchange remains civil and respectful.

[Persephone]

ViperXVII wrote...

 I claim that 90% of the player base differs.

Based on what? Do you know everyone who played the game?

[Miashi]

Anariel Theirin wrote...

It's terrible!  I played PS3, and I don't mind button-masher games (love the God of War series, for example), but it's completely ridiculous and makes combat exhausting, as well as takes the fun out of it.  I wish I played on PC for that reason, but I don't want to buy the game twice now.

I just want to put more context to my button mashing argument because there are games out there on console that I love hitting that button over and over.

At the beggining when all your gear is 5 stars, 1 swing or 2 will destroy the enemy.
However when you hit chapter 2 and even the best upgrades aren't good enough, you have to hit that button 10 times to kill the same kind of enemy you needed 2 hits to kill. It becomes insanely annoying.

edit: Actually you know what? I started getting annoyed hitting my button right after Varric starts telling your story properly. Which is 5 minutes into the game.

Modifié par Miashi, 25 mars 2011 - 03:51 .

[Lithuasil]

Persephone wrote...



as
This. A little story: My roommate is a passionate RPG player. She adores the classics and also some newer titles. (She loves Gothic IV...well, someone has to! :P) And she hates DAO and most Bioware games for the same reasons I love them. Do I think she is stupid for having different taste? Hardly.

Actually, I think calling someone stupid for liking gothic IV is fair game 

@the console players: I played it without autoattack too, though I can see why this might cause some distress without a mouse, given some enemies bring about fifteen bodies worth of healthbar (I'm looking at you, highdragon)

[DrGulag]

And I loved the fighting, because it was fun and it felt like...stuff actually happened.

That basically rules out the possibility to find a common ground, because I can't even comprehend how someone can find this type of gameplay fulfilling.

Games should offer more number crunching, problem solving and tactical/cooperative fighting instead of...

...Jesus....You do understand that every single encounter in the game required constant X.mashing for God knows how many times? Every attack! I always tried to avoid using my main character (warrior) and went with the mages in my group, because atleast with them I could cast spells before mashing again.

There's no replay value. What kind of a lunatic would endure it again willingly unless she/he was using a turbo controller?

Modifié par DrGulag, 25 mars 2011 - 03:54 .

[Anariel Theirin]

Haussier wrote...

I have to say I hated the reuse of maps so badly I dont think I can replay the game. Second I truly dislike some of the things they did with the combat system such as the teleporting mages and the boss creatures with unending health and poltices. No one wants a boss creature to fully heal mid combat... darn assissins I hated them.. killed tanks in one hit at times. In the end this game was "consolized," even the pc version, which kinda disappointed me.. console rpgs are never as good as pc ones after all. (I prefer consoles btw)

The story was pretty good. I enjoyed it.. not as much as origins but hey can't expect gold from straw right? What I really enjoyed though was the progression of some of the party members. They did good work on side quests as well.

This game over all is a good game.. it just isn't DAO's sequel in any sense of the word.

Yeah, I agree with all you said.  I'm going to have to do a second playthrough since my Origins import got glitched all to hell and there's little to no continuity with my Origins file (and that's something that matters a lot to me).  I'm somewhat dreading a second playthrough simply because of how how badly I hated those maps.  But if I want to carry my storyline consistently over to a possible (hopefully improved and more glitch-free?) DA3 some day, I'm kinda stuck.  

I didn't enjoy combat in this at all, mainly because I was on PS3 with the button mashing, and the reuse of maps made it predictable where enemies would be.  The spawning waves didn't bother me so much.  It was annoying, but the other things bugged me a lot more. 

I loved Origins combat so much that I played the game 3 times in a row, back to back, all as a rogue.  I couldn't get enough of it, and I looked forward to killing enemies rather than dreaded seeing them spawn.  I do see why some people didn't like that system, but it rocked for me, and I wonder if I'd enjoy DA2 more if that auto-attack was fixed on PS3.

[Persephone]

Lithuasil wrote...

Persephone wrote...



as
This. A little story: My roommate is a passionate RPG player. She adores the classics and also some newer titles. (She loves Gothic IV...well, someone has to! :P) And she hates DAO and most Bioware games for the same reasons I love them. Do I think she is stupid for having different taste? Hardly.

Actually, I think calling someone stupid for liking gothic IV is fair game 

LOL. I wouldn't survive that scenario, the girl wears high heeled boots that can KILL. But all jokes aside: Many among my friends have highly differing gaming tastes. My DAO crowd loves DA2 though, we are playing it together all the time and enjoying it immensely. However, several of my friends dislike games like DAO, DA2 etc. and prefer anything from Sims3 to The Guild or the latest Soccer manager. Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

Modifié par Persephone, 25 mars 2011 - 03:57 .

[Nighteye2]

I wouldn't declare the series dead because of one mediocre game. But they should learn from their mistakes and make DA3 closer to how DA:O was...

[Lithuasil]

ViperXVII wrote...
IMO if he wishes to call it a disgrace he has a right. And you just told him to go cry in a corner or something to that effect if memory serves.

Relativism - not my cup of tea, and given his continuous insults against anyone who so much as happens to like the game, certainly not his. 

That being said - while I fully agree, and have expressed in this very thread alone about three times, that "best served cold" is by far the weakest part of the game (aside from the fact that grace betraying you makes sense, and was even telegraphed) - saying that your choices mattered more in Origins, is simply a false statement, and has been dismissed time and time again. Origins told you your decisions mattered, even when they didn't. DA2 tells you *why* your decisions don't matter. If you like being deceived better, fine, that's your call. Denying, and continuously claiming that you're not being deceived however, is not. That's a reason to call you out on being wrong.

[Nerivant]

Nighteye2 wrote...

I wouldn't declare the series dead because of one mediocre game. But they should learn from their mistakes and make DA3 closer to how DA:O was...

Except for all the people that like DA2 more than DA:O, yeah, that's a great idea.

[Persephone]

Nerivant wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...

I wouldn't declare the series dead because of one mediocre game. But they should learn from their mistakes and make DA3 closer to how DA:O was...

Except for all the people that like DA2 more than DA:O, yeah, that's a great idea.

But...but.........nobody does.

I kid, I kid! I like DA2 more than DAO now. (After three playthroughs with very different tales)

[Lithuasil]

Persephone wrote...
LOL. I wouldn't survive that scenario, the girl wears high heeled boots that can KILL. But all jokes aside: Many among my friends have highly differing gaming tastes. My DAO crowd loves DA2 though, we are playing it together all the time and enjoying it immensely. However, several of my friends dislike games like DAO, DA2 etc. and prefer anything from Sims3 to The Guild or the latest Soccer manager. Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

To be fair, I gave up on the series after Risen, for all I know the Gothic series might have suddenly become good with the fourth installment

That said, convincing people that my taste is better then theirs, and they should totally read my books is kind of part of my job, so I do have a hard time leaving people to their opinion at times

[paptschik]

DrGulag wrote...

And I loved the fighting, because it was fun and it felt like...stuff actually happened.

That basically rules out the possibility to find a common ground, because I can't even comprehend how someone can find this type of gameplay fulfilling.

Games should offer more number crunching, problem solving and tactical/cooperative fighting instead of...

...Jesus....You do understand that every single encounter in the game required constant X.mashing for God knows how many times? Every attack! I always tried to avoid using my main character (warrior) and went with the mages in my group, because atleast with them I could cast spells before mashing again.

There's no replay value. What kind of a lunatic would endure it again willingly unless she/he was using a turbo controller?

To be honest, the fights are the least reason for me to play the game. Which is why I tend to play them on easy or normal, where there isn't much number crunching to be done. When I want tacical fights, I rather play asian RPGs, preferably the turn-based kind.
It's like...I don't love Mass Effect 2 and consider it my favorite game of this generation because it is a better third person shooter than, say, Uncharted 2. Because it sure as hell ISN'T.
There are things beyond that that I love, the fights are just an entertaining distraction (with the exception of some bigger fights, but there weren't that many of those in Origins either as far as I'm concerned...more, yes, but not all that many).

I may be the stupid low life console player this game is pandering to. But as such, I LOVE it. Just as much as I don't care for the Gothic's, Elder Scrolls' or Fallouts of this world.

[Anariel Theirin]

Lithuasil wrote...

ViperXVII wrote...
IMO if he wishes to call it a disgrace he has a right. And you just told him to go cry in a corner or something to that effect if memory serves.

Relativism - not my cup of tea, and given his continuous insults against anyone who so much as happens to like the game, certainly not his. 

That being said - while I fully agree, and have expressed in this very thread alone about three times, that "best served cold" is by far the weakest part of the game (aside from the fact that grace betraying you makes sense, and was even telegraphed) - saying that your choices mattered more in Origins, is simply a false statement, and has been dismissed time and time again. Origins told you your decisions mattered, even when they didn't. DA2 tells you *why* your decisions don't matter. If you like being deceived better, fine, that's your call. Denying, and continuously claiming that you're not being deceived however, is not. That's a reason to call you out on being wrong.

While I agree that your choices didn't matter much in Origins, I would argue that they at least *felt* like they mattered.  Sure, you always end up at the end, fighting the archdemon, and the only difference in choices will be who's helping you.  Sure, it won't matter much if you go for the werewolves versus the dalish because it will only matter in what your epilogue says.  But in DA2, it doesn't *feel* like your choices matter.  There's no illusion of that, and I missed it, and I can see a lot of others agree.  It breaks the hearts of us who really get into the roleplaying aspect of the series (which, for me, was my favorite part of it).

[paptschik]

Nighteye2 wrote...

I wouldn't declare the series dead because of one mediocre game. But they should learn from their mistakes and make DA3 closer to how DA:O was...

Why not take the best from both?