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I mourn for Dragon Age


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#176
Suron

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ViperXVII wrote...

ViperXVII wrote...

Based on the fact that it is not something that's hidden? I've started helping out on wikia and the more people share their input on their experiences, the more you realize that the differences are close to nil on wildly different choices.

Clear materialization of this: Merril's friendship or rivaly. They both end up the same way. I did a replay hoping that by following the rivalry path the whole thing could be avoided. It can't.

Another: All that remains. No matter what you do, Hawke's mother dies.

Another: Bethany. No matter what you do, she is taken away (even if she returns for 15 minutes with some options).

Another: Anders blowing up the chantry. This happens no matter what.

Another: Your companion's betrayal in Night Terrors. It is inmmutable, even if you have high scores or have completed quests that invalidated the demon's temptations (see aveline for an example on this).

Another: The Shepherding wolves quest. No matter what you do, it ends in conflict (although at least you can partly decide Ketojan's fate).

To name but a few. Some of these have to be there, otherwise the game would be incredibly complex. But nowhere in past Bioware games would you find as many "cloaked" inmmutable decisions. Frankly the only time I felt DA2 was a bioware game was in settling what to do with Isabela with the Arishok, because there choices had consequences.


Persephone wrote...
Those "no matter what you do things" are part of why I like the game. There are circumstances beyond one's control in life. Hawke isn't the kind of super hero who decides everything. That's the kind of realism I really prefer to the clichés in most RPGs.

Then it is by your own admittance that you prefer more fixed story-telling. This is just a matter of oppinion and yours is as valid as anyone else's, however, Bioware has usually promoted games (up until now, more accurately than with DA2) under the tag that "Choices matter" and thus why I and thus a lot of others (and I'm willing to bet that the numbers will grow as the replays do so too) consider it a flaw in the game.


oh look..the majority supporting this DA2 > DA:O in terms of content are arguing opinions vs facts.  They prefer the way DA2 does things and try to pass it off as it as having more content then DA:O even though it's false, simply because they prefered the way DA2 handled it.

it's hilarious.

Fact vs Opinion.  using one against the other is idiotic.

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.

#177
Evolution33

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I am sometimes confused by the society we live in. I loved DA:O and I loved DA2. I can't say I liked one better than the other because they told different stories and the changes that DA2 made didn't affect the way I played the game. When Origins ended I was sad that it was over because I couldn't keep adventuring with the companions in it and I felt the same way when DA2 ended. I think both stories accomlished the goals they set for themselves and I look forward to future Dragon Age games even though I am sure those game will be different from both Origins and DA2. I don't understand where this either or thing comes from or why some people feel the need to label one thing as the best thing ever and believe everything else is crap.

#178
Nerivant

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Suron wrote...

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


How do you measure content and choice if not by opinion?

#179
Nialos

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Suron wrote...

oh look..the majority supporting this DA2 > DA:O in terms of content are arguing opinions vs facts.  They prefer the way DA2 does things and try to pass it off as it as having more content then DA:O even though it's false, simply because they prefered the way DA2 handled it.

it's hilarious.

Fact vs Opinion.  using one against the other is idiotic.

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


You must be a glutton for punishment, then, huh? As has been said since time immemorial: different strokes for different folks. No need to insult someone's intelligence. To comment on the "more content" part: a lot of people have claimed to have never finished DA:O; they finished DA2. Which had more content then? Or, better yet, which was more MEANINGFUL to them? Again, see ancient quote.

Oh, and claiming that "90%" of the fanbase doesn't like the game, at any point, isn't fact - that's just shoehorning your opinion into a useful factor to bandy about like a giant phallus. Sorry, channeling my inner Morrigan there (was intended as light humor).

Modifié par Nialos, 25 mars 2011 - 07:00 .


#180
ViperXVII

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Nialos wrote...

Suron wrote...

oh look..the majority supporting this DA2 > DA:O in terms of content are arguing opinions vs facts.  They prefer the way DA2 does things and try to pass it off as it as having more content then DA:O even though it's false, simply because they prefered the way DA2 handled it.

it's hilarious.

Fact vs Opinion.  using one against the other is idiotic.

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


You must be a glutton for punishment, then, huh? As has been said since time immemorial: different strokes for different folks. No need to insult someone's intelligence. To comment on the "more content" part: a lot of people have claimed to have never finished DA:O; they finished DA2. Which had more content then? Or, better yet, which was more MEANINGFUL to them? Again, see ancient quote.

Oh, and claiming that "90%" of the fanbase doesn't like the game, at any point, isn't fact.


Edit - Misinterpretations

The facts he was referring to were my examples I believe. (all the quests that are mere illusions of choice)

Modifié par ViperXVII, 25 mars 2011 - 05:49 .


#181
Nialos

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ViperXVII wrote...

Nialos wrote...

Suron wrote...

oh look..the majority supporting this DA2 > DA:O in terms of content are arguing opinions vs facts.  They prefer the way DA2 does things and try to pass it off as it as having more content then DA:O even though it's false, simply because they prefered the way DA2 handled it.

it's hilarious.

Fact vs Opinion.  using one against the other is idiotic.

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


You must be a glutton for punishment, then, huh? As has been said since time immemorial: different strokes for different folks. No need to insult someone's intelligence. To comment on the "more content" part: a lot of people have claimed to have never finished DA:O; they finished DA2. Which had more content then? Or, better yet, which was more MEANINGFUL to them? Again, see ancient quote.

Oh, and claiming that "90%" of the fanbase doesn't like the game, at any point, isn't fact - that's just shoehorning your opinion into a useful factor to bandy about like a giant phallus.


If you're going to get smart, I'm going to do so too. Read what you comment on, smarty-pants. At no point did anybody claim that 90% didn't like it. So keep your sexual references for your private-you time. And I'm cutting a rant short because everybody else apart from you has shown to be civil in this thread and I wouldn't want to ruin it by stooping down to your level.


That wasn't me getting "smart", but I apologize if you saw it that way. And, no, no one claimed that. That's just a general 'fact' that many detractors of the game like to spout off - I simply felt the need to comment on that, too. If you for some reason saw this as an attack, again, my apologies.

#182
Miashi

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Nerivant wrote...

Suron wrote...

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


How do you measure content and choice if not by opinion?


Number of quests, number of dialog lines, time spent playing the game, number of different zones, just to name a few.
This is as empirical as it can get.

edit: Number of regular encounters, number of boss encounters, number of henchmen, number of character and gender-specific romances are a few other that came up in my mind.

Modifié par Miashi, 25 mars 2011 - 05:47 .


#183
Nerivant

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Miashi wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Suron wrote...

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


How do you measure content and choice if not by opinion?


Number of quests, number of dialog lines, time spent playing the game, number of different zones, just to name a few.
This is as empirical as it can get.


Exactly, but more doesn't mean anything. It's like naming the color of the shirt someone is wearing.
 Yeah, you're right, but you being right doesn't mean anything.

Which game has "more" content is irrelevant.

You have to weigh the content against each other, which is impossible to do with fact and obtain any meaningful result.

Modifié par Nerivant, 25 mars 2011 - 05:47 .


#184
Miashi

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Nerivant wrote...

Exactly, but more doesn't mean anything. It's like naming the color of the shirt someone is wearing.
 Yeah, you're right, but you being right doesn't mean anything.

Which game has "more" content is irrelevant.


It becomes relevant when you couple it with quality. Whereas quality may sometimes superseed the quantity, I fail to see how Bioware can achieve quality AND quantity in 18 months, whereas it took 60 months to produce DAO.

Modifié par Miashi, 25 mars 2011 - 05:48 .


#185
Suron

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Nialos wrote...

Suron wrote...

oh look..the majority supporting this DA2 > DA:O in terms of content are arguing opinions vs facts.  They prefer the way DA2 does things and try to pass it off as it as having more content then DA:O even though it's false, simply because they prefered the way DA2 handled it.

it's hilarious.

Fact vs Opinion.  using one against the other is idiotic.

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


You must be a glutton for punishment, then, huh? As has been said since time immemorial: different strokes for different folks. No need to insult someone's intelligence. To comment on the "more content" part: a lot of people have claimed to have never finished DA:O; they finished DA2. Which had more content then? Or, better yet, which was more MEANINGFUL to them? Again, see ancient quote.

Oh, and claiming that "90%" of the fanbase doesn't like the game, at any point, isn't fact - that's just shoehorning your opinion into a useful factor to bandy about like a giant phallus.


reported for bold.  And where in my post did I say that? learn to read instead of focusing on the giant phallus's mmkay?

anyway...whether or not the content was meaningful to them is STILL a matter of opinion.  Here's an example since you can't seem to comprehend the difference between fact and opinion.

(these are hypothetical games)

Game 1 - 50 different areas with multiples "levels" to each one..10 different class...10 different races.
Game 2 - 20 different areas with the majority being the same maps...5 different classes...5 races.

you prefered Game 2 over Game 1.  Hell you never finished Game 1.

That doesn't change the FACT Game 1 has MORE CONTENT then Game 2.  Whather the content in Game 1 is relevant to you because you did or didn't enjoy it is irrelevant.

again, you are arguing fact vs opinion.  And it has NOTHING to do with which game you like more.  Or which game is even "better" then the other...it's about how much content and/or choice is in the game.

Another example for myself is....I enjoyed Dragon Age: Awakening more then Final Fantasy 13.  Hell I NEVER FINISHED final fantasy 13.  But I'm not dumb enough to try and argue Awakening has more content or more gameplay then Final Fantasy 13...because it simply isn't true.

you're trying to use your preference of DA2 over DA:O to argue DA2 has more content and choice then DA:O.  Which is just FACTUALLY WRONG.

#186
Greta13

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In DA2 I liked the combat for rogues better, I liked the ability tree's, I liked the friendship/riverly system,  and I liked how certain things are un-avoidable. 
What I didn't like was how the game felt rushed (to me), there wasn't the sense of family Bioware talked about, and I never really... connected (for lack of a better word) to Hawke like I did with my Warden. 
I went back to DA:O and I still <3 it. I don't recommend DA2 to my friends, my recommendations stay with DA:O. 

#187
Nerivant

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Miashi wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Exactly, but more doesn't mean anything. It's like naming the color of the shirt someone is wearing.
 Yeah, you're right, but you being right doesn't mean anything.

Which game has "more" content is irrelevant.


It becomes relevant when you couple it with quality. Whereas quality may sometimes superseed the quantity, I fail to see how Bioware can achieve quality AND quantity in 18 months, whereas it took 60 months to produce DAO.


I agree completely.

#188
Tom Jolly

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 I'll raise a glass with the OP.  Queue up the DA:O Main theme, mate.   LONG LIVE THE MEMORY OF ORIGINS.

#189
Nialos

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Suron wrote...

Nialos wrote...

Suron wrote...

oh look..the majority supporting this DA2 > DA:O in terms of content are arguing opinions vs facts.  They prefer the way DA2 does things and try to pass it off as it as having more content then DA:O even though it's false, simply because they prefered the way DA2 handled it.

it's hilarious.

Fact vs Opinion.  using one against the other is idiotic.

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


You must be a glutton for punishment, then, huh? As has been said since time immemorial: different strokes for different folks. No need to insult someone's intelligence. To comment on the "more content" part: a lot of people have claimed to have never finished DA:O; they finished DA2. Which had more content then? Or, better yet, which was more MEANINGFUL to them? Again, see ancient quote.

Oh, and claiming that "90%" of the fanbase doesn't like the game, at any point, isn't fact - that's just shoehorning your opinion into a useful factor to bandy about like a giant phallus.


reported for bold.  And where in my post did I say that? learn to read instead of focusing on the giant phallus's mmkay?

anyway...whether or not the content was meaningful to them is STILL a matter of opinion.  Here's an example since you can't seem to comprehend the difference between fact and opinion.

(these are hypothetical games)

Game 1 - 50 different areas with multiples "levels" to each one..10 different class...10 different races.
Game 2 - 20 different areas with the majority being the same maps...5 different classes...5 races.

you prefered Game 2 over Game 1.  Hell you never finished Game 1.

That doesn't change the FACT Game 1 has MORE CONTENT then Game 2.  Whather the content in Game 1 is relevant to you because you did or didn't enjoy it is irrelevant.

again, you are arguing fact vs opinion.  And it has NOTHING to do with which game you like more.  Or which game is even "better" then the other...it's about how much content and/or choice is in the game.

Another example for myself is....I enjoyed Dragon Age: Awakening more then Final Fantasy 13.  Hell I NEVER FINISHED final fantasy 13.  But I'm not dumb enough to try and argue Awakening has more content or more gameplay then Final Fantasy 13...because it simply isn't true.

you're trying to use your preference of DA2 over DA:O to argue DA2 has more content and choice then DA:O.  Which is just FACTUALLY WRONG.


As a matter of fact, I did finish game 1. I think they're both lovely games. Does DA:O have 'more' content? Sure. Does that make the content -better-? No, not really. A lot of the content in DA:O was long, useless and padding for the main plot to stretch it out.

DA2 said "oh, screw it, we'll just use the same areas over and over, but make it faster. What's the difference". Is this the right way to do it? No. But some people prefer this to the Origins style, and I can't fault them for that. Point is, when you go into the argument of 'facts vs. opinions', no one is going to be right.

Was the story extremely 'linear' compared to Origins? Sure, it can considered as such. But I never felt the gravity of my choices in Origins except for the final battle (where you just get different troops) and a small blurb at the end. That's it. DA2? I saw my choices blossom in the connected storylines of each. I simply PREFER that, over your facts.

Your 'facts' may clash with opinions, and even if they are true, that doesn't make them right. Or you, for that matter.

Modifié par Nialos, 25 mars 2011 - 06:02 .


#190
Marcy3655

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I loved Origins and after playing DA2 several times through have started loving it as well.. first playthrough I wasn't sure, but seeing how things change changed my opinion... I'm playing another Hawke now who is a rogue like my first character and things are definitely unfolding differently than they did the first time... if you play the quests in a different order and make different convo choices the game definitely does play out differently... There are certain major plot points in the story that won't change but that's to be expected since they are at the heart of the story... but I'm still seeing new quests popping up and this is my 5th playthrough... had a quest pop up last night that I've never seen until now, and that is cool...

I loved Origins, still do in fact, and the new game has its share of flaws as did Origins, but they are both great games... DA:O will always be my first as far as D&D type games, but the new game has its good points too.. If we get a toolset and as many mods are created as there were with Origins to extend the game further perhaps opinions may change, but I'm actually pleased the new game is so much different than Origins because otherwise it would seem like just a big expansion of Origins...

M

#191
TillyBomas

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Lithuasil wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Egads, Risen was awful. I hate that game. (Maybe I should go to its board & tell everyone who likes it that they're stupid? Just kidding!) Gothic IV left me colder than cold. People thing DA2 is streamlined? In Gothic IV you get 2 dialogue options at best, no choices, no nothing. Gaaaaaaaaaaaah!

{smilie}


The combat in risen was kind of ok - it's just everything else that was awful :P (Kind of the opposite of Morrowind, which was the best game ever made ever, until people got their swords out :( )


Ah, well I must disagree with this. Morrowwind was a good game, but far from 'the best game of all time' in my opinion. In truth, I liked Daggerfall better then morrowwind. HOwever, my favorite RPG for the PC would probably have to be Arcanum, of Steamworks and Magika. Old game, made by a company not known for their RPGs, but I must have played through that story at least 20 times. I would recommend it to everyone. It is somewhat buggy at times, and did not sell well, but I still think is a great game.


Now on to the topic of DA2. The game was good. Not great, and I find it sad it does feel rushed, but as a game, it was good. As for a sequal to DAO, I don't believe it really is. Sure it takes place after the first one, and holds the 2 title, but, its a different city, different character, and different overall story. In truth, the 'import' should not have a huge impact on the story, because it takes place in a different nation.

Story has its issues, some of which have been beat to death. Some not, (to my knowladge). Sure, the game messes with the Lore sometimes. But, that happens sometimes.

#192
Kyriani Agrivar

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I'd just like to say I enjoyed DA:O immensely. The different origins gave some nice variety to the beginning of the game and helps establish your place in the world. I also enjoyed DA2 though i fear it has less replay value as DA:O for me at least. Hopefully mods or DLC content will address that.

I have to say some people's opinions puzzle me. When I see people saying "dungeon is too long" or "dungeon is padded and isn't really content" I really can't understand that. A long dungeon is content. Shortening it removes content. I'm not saying it's SATISFYING content but it is activity added to the game. I will however admit to being someone uses the "skip the fade mod" that particular bit of content was just too drawn out for my taste beyond the first time through (which I enjoyed mind you. It was a clever puzzle game in the midst of the regular story just not something I want to do every time).

Unlike most people I am not enthralled with the change to combat. Sure I love the new animations but I can hardly appreciate them at the pace they are being shown. It's like everyone is on crack moving at breakneck speeds that I can hardly see what's going on. I also loved the slow motion death blow animations we had in DA:O. Exploding enemies was a poor substitute in my opinion. :( Also having a voiced protagonist is nice and all but it actually detracted from the game for me. With only the 1 voice for each gender my character's appearance just didn't really seem right with the voice. And the only way to fix that would have been to have multiple voices for every piece of player dialogue which would have been alot more expensive for the devs. A silent protagonist eliminates that issue. In a perfect world (for me at least) the game would have had at least 4 voices to choose from for each gender with perhaps a pitch slider to adjust them a bit.

Not being able to adjust all of my companions equipment was a detraction for me. It made every non accessory/weapon drop that my main character couldn't use (of which there were many) just wasted vendor trash. On the other hand I loved the unique appearances of the companions. If I could have any mod it would be one that lets me choose all the gear my companions use but lets them retain their unique appearance no matter what I put on them.

Speaking of companions... One thing DA:O excelled at over DA2 was companion management. Not being able to manage companions gear and leveling when not in your party was aggravating. I had to purposefully swap people in and out just CHECK if some new item I had was an upgrade for them. I found that tedious. At the very least it would have been nice to be able to manage all companions when you were at home.

The ONE cave map... thats all we had ONE cave map (never mind all the other reused a ton of times little maps).. it was reused ridiculously with impassable doors added depending on what quest you were on. That was a probably the one thing that really disappointed me. DA:O reused art assets sure...but layouts were typically different, placeable objects dressed the scenery up differently... The Andraste temple was different enough to me from the brecillian forest spirit temple even if they shared some art assets I felt I was in different places. I just didn't get that from DA2.

Bottom line for me is I like both games. Both have linear stories and reused assets but DA:O hides it better IMO. That doesn't mean DA2 isn't a good game. I've enjoyed the story immensely. I just wish there had been more "story" and less "fluff" like those "quests" (I hesitate to call them that) where you find something and poof a quest is in your log to click the npc it belongs to. Either way I am looking forward to DA3 and hopefully we'll see a little more DA:O flavor with the advances that DA2 has made.

Modifié par Kyriani Agrivar, 25 mars 2011 - 07:46 .


#193
MelfinaofOutlawStar

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Nerivant wrote...

Suron wrote...
Go to two different caves and come back and point out the differences
between the two..hell tell me the MAP ITSELF isn't the exact same with
just new boulders blocking your path.  you're blind if you're actually
trying to argue this.


but seriously..I'm not arguing fact vs
opinion.  YOu didn't like the content in DA:O..fine...that doesn't
change facts about DA2 just because you PREFER smaller re-used areas
over individual longer areas doesn't mean DA2 has even a fraction of the
content of DA:O

but whatever..I got dragged into a brainless
argument putting opinion vs fact.  your liking a type of content over
another doesn't change whether or not that particular thing has more or
less content.  again..fact vs opinion.

fact vs opinion.  DA:O has more content then DA2..that's fact.  you however like MORE of the content DA2 had over what DA:O had even if it was more..that's your OPINION.

do you get it yet? fact vs opinion.

thanks for playing :-D


You keep implying that reusing areas detracts from the quality of a game, that a game's quality is directly related to its level of content, yet you fail to back that up. Tell me, is there some scale for when or how much the reusing of areas detracts from the game? Can an area only be used X times? When Y number of bytes is repeated content, is that too much? Or for each repeated bit of content, is the quality reduced by Z%? Just because you believe that does not make it so.

All humans share the same skeleton, so, tell me, should every character in DA2 have a different skeleton? Should ever rock, every tree, every shrub, every blade of grass, and every scrap of texture be hand-made so that no two are alike? Content is always reused in games, and yet you judge DA2 more harshly for it than other games. But no meterstick exists for that sort of thing.

You believe that DA2 reuses too much of its content. The fact is, there's no way to judge that. It's your opinion.

Fact vs. Opinion.


It is a fact they they rehashes the same dungeon over and over. Yes, detracts from the quality of the game because nothing makes a fantasy epic feel small than looping through the same room. The world felt tiny in comparison with many other games, even it's predecessor. The Dragon Age series never claimed to be a sandbox but the first game set a standard with a variety of environments to explore. They took areas deemed to long and made it so the player could traverse them in a few minutes. They need to find a middle ground without halving the world of Thedas.

I mean, when you compare the two it's depressing.
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#194
Gavinthelocust

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This game has me worried, I still like it but the story and content was much less than I expected from Bioware. If it weren't for Mass Effect being a godsend I would be thinking that Bioware is going down the same way Square did. Hopefully EA will let them take more time with their babies so they don't come out stupid, but looking at ME3's development time I'm very unsure that they will.

#195
Marcy3655

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What I wish had been done is - if it is necessary to use the same cave for multiple areas at least make it have some variety to the areas and make the other parts of the cave invisible to the player while playing a different area, that way no one would have even known it was the same cave map and all the areas would have seemed like a 'new' map... perhaps those are things that can be changed a bit with a toolset (different textures, different lighting, different dressings..). don't know if that's possible, but it would sure help..

M

#196
PPR223

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Kyriani Agrivar wrote...

I'd just like to say I enjoyed DA:O immensely. The different origins gave some nice variety to the beginning of the game and helps establish your place in the world. I also enjoyed DA2 though i fear it has less replay value as DA:O for me at least. Hopefully mods or DLC content will address that.

I have to say some people's opinions puzzle me. When I see people saying "dungeon is too long" or "dungeon is padded and isn't really content" I really can't understand that. A long dungeon is content. Shortening it removes content. I'm not saying it's SATISFYING content but it is activity added to the game. I will however admit to being someone uses the "skip the fade mod" that particular bit of content was just too drawn out for my taste beyond the first time through (which I enjoyed mind you. It was a clever puzzle game in the midst of the regular story just not something I want to do every time).

Unlike most people I am not enthralled with the change to combat. Sure I love the new animations but I can hardly appreciate them at the pace they are being shown. It's like everyone is on crack moving at breakneck speeds that I can hardly see what's going on. I also loved the slow motion death blow animations we had in DA:O. Exploding enemies was a poor substitute in my opinion. :( Also having a voiced protagonist is nice and all but it actually detracted from the game for me. With only the 1 voice for each gender my character's appearance just didn't really seem right with the voice. And the only way to fix that would have been to have multiple voices for every piece of player dialogue which would have been alot more expensive for the devs. A silent protagonist eliminates that issue. In a perfect world (for me at least) the game would have had at least 4 voices to choose from for each gender with perhaps a pitch slider to adjust them a bit.

Not being able to adjust all of my companions equipment was a detraction for me. It made every non accessory/weapon drop that my main character couldn't use (of which there were many) just wasted vendor trash. On the other hand I loved the unique appearances of the companions. If I could have any mod it would be one that lets me choose all the gear my companions use but lets them retain their unique appearance no matter what I put on them.

Speaking of companions... One thing DA:O excelled at over DA2 was companion management. Not being able to manage companions gear and leveling when not in your party was aggravating. I had to purposefully swap people in and out just CHECK if some new item I had was an upgrade for them. I found that tedious. At the very least it would have been nice to be able to manage all companions when you were at home.

The ONE cave map... thats all we had ONE cave map (never mind all the other reused a ton of times little maps).. it was reused ridiculously with impassable doors added depending on what quest you were on. That was a probably the one thing that really disappointed me. DA:O reused art assets sure...but layouts were typically different, placeable objects dressed the scenery up differently... The Andraste temple was different enough to me from the brecillian forest spirit temple even if they shared some art assets I felt I was in different places. I just didn't get that from DA2.

Bottom line for me is I like both games. Both have linear stories and reused assets but DA:O hides it better IMO. That doesn't mean DA2 isn't a good game. I've enjoyed the story immensely. I just wish there had been more "story" and less "fluff" like those "quests" (I hesitate to call them that) where you find something and poof a quest is in your log to click the npc it belongs to. Either way I am looking forward to DA3 and hopefully we'll see a little more DA:O flavor with the advances that DA2 has made.


Well it is understandable that DA2 may have less replay value for some people, due to the numerous races on Origins. This is something that does not effect me though, as I only ever did full playthroughs as a Human. I did the origins of the other races, but I just don't like playing as Elves or Dwarves, this goes for every fantasy game.

I find that certain dungeons in Origins were oversized myself, and seemed to make the game drag more than make it enjoyable. For me these included the Deep Roads and the Fade, technically not a dungeon but still too long in my opinion. I agree it is still content, however in my opinion it was pointless content that could have easily been shortened and in turn made more enjoyable.

I enjoyed the new combat, however I do agree that the animations were too fast, especially when they did the killing move cinematics. I also liked the killing moves from Origins, and am slightly dissapointed not to see them in DA2. The amount of blood and exploding bodies is over the top, so I hope they tone it down a bit in the next DA, if there is one that is. Save the continuous waves around Kirkwall got a bit tedious, it was still quite fun and an improvement over DA:O.

I agree about the voiced protagonist also, though it was great to have a character that actually showed emotion. Still though I prefered the Warden that couldn't speak, but if they go back to that I hope they don't show the protagonist face. He never had any emotion, or occasionaly they would have some creepy smile on their face.

It was an alright idea to have armour that upgraded and changed, to give the companions a unique look, however I prefered equipping them myself. I hope they go back to the DA:O method for them, and also they need a place where you can access all their inventories, instead of having to put them in your group everytime.

DA2 is a great game in my opinion that has improved quite a few things that were annoying with DA:O, however it is the lesser of the them I agree. What I'd like is a combination of the best of Origins and the best of DA2, then DA3 would be a pretty incredible game.

Modifié par PPR223, 25 mars 2011 - 08:36 .


#197
Suron

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Nialos wrote...

Suron wrote...

Nialos wrote...

Suron wrote...

oh look..the majority supporting this DA2 > DA:O in terms of content are arguing opinions vs facts.  They prefer the way DA2 does things and try to pass it off as it as having more content then DA:O even though it's false, simply because they prefered the way DA2 handled it.

it's hilarious.

Fact vs Opinion.  using one against the other is idiotic.

DA:O has more content and choice then DA2 ever could hope too.  Liking one game over the other has nothing to do with that FACT..but the opinionites still want to argue it.  I love the intelligence here.


You must be a glutton for punishment, then, huh? As has been said since time immemorial: different strokes for different folks. No need to insult someone's intelligence. To comment on the "more content" part: a lot of people have claimed to have never finished DA:O; they finished DA2. Which had more content then? Or, better yet, which was more MEANINGFUL to them? Again, see ancient quote.

Oh, and claiming that "90%" of the fanbase doesn't like the game, at any point, isn't fact - that's just shoehorning your opinion into a useful factor to bandy about like a giant phallus.


reported for bold.  And where in my post did I say that? learn to read instead of focusing on the giant phallus's mmkay?

anyway...whether or not the content was meaningful to them is STILL a matter of opinion.  Here's an example since you can't seem to comprehend the difference between fact and opinion.

(these are hypothetical games)

Game 1 - 50 different areas with multiples "levels" to each one..10 different class...10 different races.
Game 2 - 20 different areas with the majority being the same maps...5 different classes...5 races.

you prefered Game 2 over Game 1.  Hell you never finished Game 1.

That doesn't change the FACT Game 1 has MORE CONTENT then Game 2.  Whather the content in Game 1 is relevant to you because you did or didn't enjoy it is irrelevant.

again, you are arguing fact vs opinion.  And it has NOTHING to do with which game you like more.  Or which game is even "better" then the other...it's about how much content and/or choice is in the game.

Another example for myself is....I enjoyed Dragon Age: Awakening more then Final Fantasy 13.  Hell I NEVER FINISHED final fantasy 13.  But I'm not dumb enough to try and argue Awakening has more content or more gameplay then Final Fantasy 13...because it simply isn't true.

you're trying to use your preference of DA2 over DA:O to argue DA2 has more content and choice then DA:O.  Which is just FACTUALLY WRONG.


As a matter of fact, I did finish game 1. I think they're both lovely games. Does DA:O have 'more' content? Sure. Does that make the content -better-? No, not really. A lot of the content in DA:O was long, useless and padding for the main plot to stretch it out.

DA2 said "oh, screw it, we'll just use the same areas over and over, but make it faster. What's the difference". Is this the right way to do it? No. But some people prefer this to the Origins style, and I can't fault them for that. Point is, when you go into the argument of 'facts vs. opinions', no one is going to be right.

Was the story extremely 'linear' compared to Origins? Sure, it can considered as such. But I never felt the gravity of my choices in Origins except for the final battle (where you just get different troops) and a small blurb at the end. That's it. DA2? I saw my choices blossom in the connected storylines of each. I simply PREFER that, over your facts.

Your 'facts' may clash with opinions, and even if they are true, that doesn't make them right. Or you, for that matter.


so you're saying that my facts.  which are backed by undeniable proof that DA:O has more content and more various areas then DA2 is my opinion?

Ok I can see this is pointless.  

I'm giving facts, you're stating opinion and trying to argue my facts are my opinion? yah...

DA:O has more content then DA2.  Whether I, you, Gaider, or whatever GOD you may or may not worship think of those two individual games has NO RELEVANCE TO THE DISCUSSION.

DA:O has more of everything.  That's the argument.  Where you people are coming up with me comparing one being better then the other I wish I could find...it's dumb..almost all of you are making things up.

I'm saying..DA:O has more content..because it DOES.  FACT.  I'm not saying anything about which one I like better. Because frankly that is where we hit OPINION and it's not the topic in question.

You could have HATED DA:O from the start..and never got past an origin..guess what..that doesn't change that DA:O has more content then DA2.  Whether that content is relevant to you because you did or didn't finish one or the other of the games doesn't change that FACT.

which is why your argument falls apart.  you CANNOT use personal opinion when pointing out facts about something like Content.  Content is Content whether you LIKE or DISLIKE said Content.

DA:O has more content then DA2.  FACT.

schools out kid.

#198
Nerivant

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Suron wrote...
so you're saying that my facts.  which are backed by undeniable proof that DA:O has more content and more various areas then DA2 is my opinion?

Ok I can see this is pointless.  

I'm giving facts, you're stating opinion and trying to argue my facts are my opinion? yah...

DA:O has more content then DA2.  Whether I, you, Gaider, or whatever GOD you may or may not worship think of those two individual games has NO RELEVANCE TO THE DISCUSSION.

DA:O has more of everything.  That's the argument.  Where you people are coming up with me comparing one being better then the other I wish I could find...it's dumb..almost all of you are making things up.

I'm saying..DA:O has more content..because it DOES.  FACT.  I'm not saying anything about which one I like better. Because frankly that is where we hit OPINION and it's not the topic in question.

You could have HATED DA:O from the start..and never got past an origin..guess what..that doesn't change that DA:O has more content then DA2.  Whether that content is relevant to you because you did or didn't finish one or the other of the games doesn't change that FACT.

which is why your argument falls apart.  you CANNOT use personal opinion when pointing out facts about something like Content.  Content is Content whether you LIKE or DISLIKE said Content.

DA:O has more content then DA2.  FACT.

schools out kid.




Since the amount of content has no relevence without support from other attributes of the content, you've proven, essentially, that the sky is blue.

Congratulations. That entire rant was for nothing.

Modifié par Nerivant, 25 mars 2011 - 09:28 .


#199
Captain_Obvious

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_Dejanus wrote...

Im so tired of these 'RUINED FOREVER' threads. 


This.


You are my new hero.  Image IPB

#200
Nialos

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Nerivant wrote...

Suron wrote...
so you're saying that my facts.  which are backed by undeniable proof that DA:O has more content and more various areas then DA2 is my opinion?

Ok I can see this is pointless.  

I'm giving facts, you're stating opinion and trying to argue my facts are my opinion? yah...

DA:O has more content then DA2.  Whether I, you, Gaider, or whatever GOD you may or may not worship think of those two individual games has NO RELEVANCE TO THE DISCUSSION.

DA:O has more of everything.  That's the argument.  Where you people are coming up with me comparing one being better then the other I wish I could find...it's dumb..almost all of you are making things up.

I'm saying..DA:O has more content..because it DOES.  FACT.  I'm not saying anything about which one I like better. Because frankly that is where we hit OPINION and it's not the topic in question.

You could have HATED DA:O from the start..and never got past an origin..guess what..that doesn't change that DA:O has more content then DA2.  Whether that content is relevant to you because you did or didn't finish one or the other of the games doesn't change that FACT.

which is why your argument falls apart.  you CANNOT use personal opinion when pointing out facts about something like Content.  Content is Content whether you LIKE or DISLIKE said Content.

DA:O has more content then DA2.  FACT.

schools out kid.




Since the amount of content has no relevence without support from other attributes of the content, you've proven, essentially, that the sky is blue.

Congratulations. That entire rant was for nothing.


I'm actually wondering when Suron will realize that the debate drifted away from "WHICH GAME HAS MORE CONTENT", and more towards "what defines good content". Because, in his argument, he's right; DA:O has more. I... guess that's all there is to say about that?